SLSF Fame Comments Reloaded

[Gristle]

1 hour ago, Ikwydls said:

Thanks for the fixes!

 

The follower "I'm right behind you" line has been deleted and replaced with a seemingly identical new one with a new script fragment. FormID below:

[INFO:000FE6F6] (in GRUP Topic Children of DialogueFavorGenericFollowBranchTopic "Follow me. I need your help." [DIAL:000B0EE6])

 

The changes conflicts with mods like Extensible Follower Framework and Relationship Dialogue Overhaul. It may will also prevent taking multiple followers due to the dialog conditions (allowed by EFF for example). Does the change have a purpose? It does seem to call the vanilla SetFollower script anyways.

 

Some of the possible worldspace wild edits still in the mod including triggerboxes:

  Hide contents

Trigger box that may affect main quest slightly. Moved by 3~ meters in X axis.

MQ104SetStage120 [REFR:000DD04E] (places defaultSetStageTRIG [ACTI:00033F50] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of WhiterunDragonsreach "Dragonsreach" [CELL:000165A3])

Couple of trigger boxes that have been moved minutely (less than a default scale NPC's height, so probably no real problem here, just possible wild edits):

MS07OpeningSceneSetStage [REFR:000C588C] (places defaultSetStageTRIG [ACTI:00033F50] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of [CELL:00037EE6] (in SolitudeWorld "Solitude" [WRLD:00037EDF]) at -16,25)

[REFR:000C97D8] (places C00GiantAttackStartTrigger [ACTI:000C97D7] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of WhiterunExterior17 [CELL:00009639] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at 5,-4))

DB Sanctuary Room Marker bounds adjusted:

DBSanc_WestHall [REFR:000C0291] (places RoomMarker [STAT:0000001F] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of DarkBrotherhoodSanctuary "Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary" [CELL:000AD5A1])

Volkihar Room Marker bounds adjusted:

[REFR:02007320] (places RoomMarker [STAT:0000001F] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of DLC1VampireCastleGuildhall "Volkihar Keep" [CELL:02000803])

Mist disabled at darkwater crossing:

[REFR:000C22AB] (places FXMistLow01HalfVis [MSTT:00077773] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009661] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at 27,-6))

Mist barely moved:

[REFR:000C22AF] (places FXMistLow01LongHalfVis [MSTT:0007776E] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of POIVolcanicTundra06 [CELL:00009680] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at 27,-7))

Treestump randomly moved:

[REFR:00066FD3] (places TreePineForest05 [TREE:00051126] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000092C2] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -22,23))

Thalmor HQ mist moved:

[REFR:000DBA08] (places FXGlowFillRoundBrt [STAT:0002EB11] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SolitudeJusticiarsHeadquarters "Thalmor Headquarters" [CELL:00071FFE])

[REFR:000E64C5] (places FXMistLow01 [MSTT:00077772] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SolitudeJusticiarsHeadquarters "Thalmor Headquarters" [CELL:00071FFE])

Druadach redoubt cage moved:

[REFR:00083F67] (places MetalCage01 [STAT:000AA041] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of DruadachRedoubt01 "Druadach Redoubt Cave" [CELL:0004401B])

Drunked huntsman fireplace embers moved:

[REFR:000C7AF5] (places FXfireWithEmbersLogs01 [MSTT:0004318B] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of WhiterunDrunkenHuntsman "The Drunken Huntsman" [CELL:000165B7])

 

There are also many "identical to master" records. This decreases compatability a tiny amount for no reason. Tesedit has a quick clean functionality to remove records like this en masse. It might also be a good idea to run "undelete and disable references" functionality (replaces deletion with initially disabled flag. Should do no harm and prevents missing reference problems for other mods.

 

Edit: Quick Auto Clean warns of a deleted navmesh. These will cause a CTD if another mod touches that (I have no idea if any do). Navmeshes Need to be fixed manually in CK.

[NAVM:000A4496] (in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of WhiterunDragonsreachBasement "Dragonsreach Dungeon" [CELL:0004A376])

Thanks for the info!

 

So far, I've removed all vanilla package edits (except for the one that allows Ulfberth to have idle dialogue in Warmaidens), removed Ulfberth's edits (which appears to have been none), and removed an edit to the Soul Cairn worldspace. I also reran the entire Markarth quest - still works fine. Some of these changes made sense to me, like me trying different things with Ulfberth to get him to deliver idle dialogue. I ultimately made no changes to him, but it seems making a change and then changing it back is an edit. Others make less sense, e.g., no part of this mod touches the Soul Cairn worldspace, so I have no idea how I could have made any worldspace changes there.

 

I'll go through the list above one by one and check each - the Druadach redoubt change appears to be the only intentional one. Just looking at the list, most are probably caused by me trying to select something in the CK world editor and grabbing the wrong thing. It took me a while before figuring out how to use the selection filters. (I hate mist, by the way.) 

 

My only question at the moment concerns the deleted navmesh in the Dragonsreach basement. Can't I just delete the deletion in SSEEdit to restore the vanilla navmesh? If I use the CK, I don't know how to find a navmesh that's no longer there, and if I find where it's missing and put it back with the CK, won't that show as an edit? Any advice here would be appreciated. 

[Gristle]

10 hours ago, Ikwydls said:

Thanks for the fixes!

 

The follower "I'm right behind you" line has been deleted and replaced with a seemingly identical new one with a new script fragment. FormID below:

[INFO:000FE6F6] (in GRUP Topic Children of DialogueFavorGenericFollowBranchTopic "Follow me. I need your help." [DIAL:000B0EE6])

 

The changes conflicts with mods like Extensible Follower Framework and Relationship Dialogue Overhaul. It may will also prevent taking multiple followers due to the dialog conditions (allowed by EFF for example). Does the change have a purpose? It does seem to call the vanilla SetFollower script anyways.

 

Some of the possible worldspace wild edits still in the mod including triggerboxes:

  Reveal hidden contents

Trigger box that may affect main quest slightly. Moved by 3~ meters in X axis.

MQ104SetStage120 [REFR:000DD04E] (places defaultSetStageTRIG [ACTI:00033F50] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of WhiterunDragonsreach "Dragonsreach" [CELL:000165A3])

Couple of trigger boxes that have been moved minutely (less than a default scale NPC's height, so probably no real problem here, just possible wild edits):

MS07OpeningSceneSetStage [REFR:000C588C] (places defaultSetStageTRIG [ACTI:00033F50] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of [CELL:00037EE6] (in SolitudeWorld "Solitude" [WRLD:00037EDF]) at -16,25)

[REFR:000C97D8] (places C00GiantAttackStartTrigger [ACTI:000C97D7] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of WhiterunExterior17 [CELL:00009639] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at 5,-4))

DB Sanctuary Room Marker bounds adjusted:

DBSanc_WestHall [REFR:000C0291] (places RoomMarker [STAT:0000001F] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of DarkBrotherhoodSanctuary "Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary" [CELL:000AD5A1])

Volkihar Room Marker bounds adjusted:

[REFR:02007320] (places RoomMarker [STAT:0000001F] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of DLC1VampireCastleGuildhall "Volkihar Keep" [CELL:02000803])

Mist disabled at darkwater crossing:

[REFR:000C22AB] (places FXMistLow01HalfVis [MSTT:00077773] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00009661] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at 27,-6))

Mist barely moved:

[REFR:000C22AF] (places FXMistLow01LongHalfVis [MSTT:0007776E] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of POIVolcanicTundra06 [CELL:00009680] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at 27,-7))

Treestump randomly moved:

[REFR:00066FD3] (places TreePineForest05 [TREE:00051126] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:000092C2] (in Tamriel "Skyrim" [WRLD:0000003C] at -22,23))

Thalmor HQ mist moved:

[REFR:000DBA08] (places FXGlowFillRoundBrt [STAT:0002EB11] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SolitudeJusticiarsHeadquarters "Thalmor Headquarters" [CELL:00071FFE])

[REFR:000E64C5] (places FXMistLow01 [MSTT:00077772] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SolitudeJusticiarsHeadquarters "Thalmor Headquarters" [CELL:00071FFE])

Druadach redoubt cage moved:

[REFR:00083F67] (places MetalCage01 [STAT:000AA041] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of DruadachRedoubt01 "Druadach Redoubt Cave" [CELL:0004401B])

Drunked huntsman fireplace embers moved:

[REFR:000C7AF5] (places FXfireWithEmbersLogs01 [MSTT:0004318B] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of WhiterunDrunkenHuntsman "The Drunken Huntsman" [CELL:000165B7])

 

There are also many "identical to master" records. This decreases compatability a tiny amount for no reason. Tesedit has a quick clean functionality to remove records like this en masse. It might also be a good idea to run "undelete and disable references" functionality (replaces deletion with initially disabled flag. Should do no harm and prevents missing reference problems for other mods.

 

Edit: Quick Auto Clean warns of a deleted navmesh. These will cause a CTD if another mod touches that (I have no idea if any do). Navmeshes Need to be fixed manually in CK.

[NAVM:000A4496] (in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of WhiterunDragonsreachBasement "Dragonsreach Dungeon" [CELL:0004A376])

Update:  I've now removed all of the edits referenced above (update not yet posted), except for the deliberate cage movement in Drudach redoubt.  I also deleted minor (if any?) edits to a city banner in Dragonsreach, the MS08 Ambush trigger and a pine tree near Kilkreath ruins.

 

Next, I ran SSEEdit with the "-quickautoclean" command line. It indicated the one deleted navmesh that you noted. As for ITMs and 'Undeleting and Disabling References', it reported 0 Removed ITMS and 0 Undeleted Records. Also, when I try to save, it says there are no unsaved changes. Any idea why it's not seeing/removing the ITMs that you are seeing? Once, I figure that out, I'll try to tackle the deleted navmesh.

 

 

[ewertonalves]

On 5/9/2023 at 9:57 PM, Gristle said:

There should have been quest markers for the "secluded place off the road" and also one in the Solitude market square where you start the search for the temple, but the quest actually deliberately doesn't have a marker for the temple entrance because searching Solitude for the temple entrance was intended to be a key part of the quest. The entrance is in plain sight, and you'll get a visible log update when you find it, but I do realize Solitude is a reasonably sized city. If you want a little hint or a bigger hint, check out the spoilers below:

 

Little Hint: 

  Reveal hidden contents

The poem directs you to search "with the sun above". This suggests the entrance is located in an exterior location.

Bigger Hint:

  Reveal hidden contents

Like the temple in Markarth, the temple in Solitude was likely built in the wealthier part of the city.

 

Unfortunately, the Temple place is conflicting with several mods that specifically change this place, like Enhanced Solitude. I'm trying to move Lilly inside the Temple, because she stops on the walls/door, even with TCL on, but none of the console commands (moveto, placeatme) worked. If any1 solved this kind of situation, please answer me.

[Gristle]

5 hours ago, ewertonalves said:

Unfortunately, the Temple place is conflicting with several mods that specifically change this place, like Enhanced Solitude. I'm trying to move Lilly inside the Temple, because she stops on the walls/door, even with TCL on, but none of the console commands (moveto, placeatme) worked. If any1 solved this kind of situation, please answer me.

The temple is a separate interior cell, so the temple cell itself won't conflict with anything. The only thing placed in the Solitude world space is a door (and frame) that 'teleports' you into the temple cell when activated (like any other 'load door'). Have you started the search for the temple and received the message that you found the temple? (The message is triggered by a trigger box in front of the door, but some mod construction could be blocking the trigger box.) If so, do you see the door, or is it buried behind some mod-added construction?

 

When I get a chance, I'll check out Enhanced Solitude. Never tried it, but it looks interesting.

[Tilion90]

This mod doesn't seem to work with a save file. The dependency mod Versh's Sexlab Sexual Fame Framework SE v0.99 states it only works with a new game or clean save. Do I really need to start a completely new game to get this mod to work? I have installed all other dependencies. 

 

Thanks!

[Gristle]

10 hours ago, Tilion90 said:

This mod doesn't seem to work with a save file. The dependency mod Versh's Sexlab Sexual Fame Framework SE v0.99 states it only works with a new game or clean save. Do I really need to start a completely new game to get this mod to work? I have installed all other dependencies. 

A clean save just means a save file that hasn't been made with any prior version of the sexual fame framework mod installed, and v0.99 has been out for about 7 years. So, no, you shouldn't have to start a new game. What exact issue are you having?

[ewertonalves]

On 6/20/2023 at 9:42 PM, Gristle said:

The temple is a separate interior cell, so the temple cell itself won't conflict with anything. The only thing placed in the Solitude world space is a door (and frame) that 'teleports' you into the temple cell when activated (like any other 'load door'). Have you started the search for the temple and received the message that you found the temple? (The message is triggered by a trigger box in front of the door, but some mod construction could be blocking the trigger box.) If so, do you see the door, or is it buried behind some mod-added construction?

 

When I get a chance, I'll check out Enhanced Solitude. Never tried it, but it looks interesting.

Hey Gristle,

So, the door is buried behind (and inside) of the Enhanced Solitude's house in the same spot. Walking or opening the door of this house will trigger the next quest stage, and open the "We found it!" dialogue with Lilly. After this, the quest ask to open the Temple door. I made Lilly enter by repositioning the sex lab scene with a hotkey, but it appear to broke the quest. After this, Lilly don't showed new dialogues, and I haven't discovered anything new inside the Temple. I don't know how much time do you have, but it will be interesting to create a patch for this mod. Thanks for the answer, i returned my save to the early stages of this quest, so Lilly will have to enjoy the entire winter season with the friendly Forsworns.

Edited June 22, 2023 by ewertonalves

[Tilion90]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:27 AM, Gristle said:

A clean save just means a save file that hasn't been made with any prior version of the sexual fame framework mod installed, and v0.99 has been out for about 7 years. So, no, you shouldn't have to start a new game. What exact issue are you having?

Thanks for clearing up what a clean save means. Did not understand the meaning before.

 

No more issues, I just installed the mods in the wrong order, which caused them to not show up at all. 

[foreveraloneguy]

I'm doing the dibellan whore of markarth quest and I'm supposed to pick up the axe after noon, but when I talk to Adrienne there's no option to get the axe back. Is there something else I need to do to trigger that dialogue?

 

edit: I had to go there at noon, not just afternoon. And minor quibble; Adrianne's name is  spelled as "Adrienne" in the description.

Edited June 23, 2023 by foreveraloneguy

[foreveraloneguy]

One other thing I noticed, and it might or might not be a problem, none of the references in the quest for whore of markarth are populated. I think this is just because of the fact that there's only script fragments to advance the quest rather than full scripts, but can anyone confirm?

[Gristle]

4 hours ago, foreveraloneguy said:

I'm doing the dibellan whore of markarth quest and I'm supposed to pick up the axe after noon, but when I talk to Adrienne there's no option to get the axe back. Is there something else I need to do to trigger that dialogue?

 

edit: I had to go there at noon, not just afternoon. And minor quibble; Adrianne's name is  spelled as "Adrienne" in the description.

Anytime after noon should work, but Rogen needs to be nearby to trigger the dialogue (since Adrianne hands him the repaired axe).  Maybe Rogen was lagging behind when you tried the first time? And thanks for the note on the typo. I will correct. Let me know if you see any others please.

[Gristle]

18 minutes ago, foreveraloneguy said:

One other thing I noticed, and it might or might not be a problem, none of the references in the quest for whore of markarth are populated. I think this is just because of the fact that there's only script fragments to advance the quest rather than full scripts, but can anyone confirm?

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but what do you mean by "references" and "populated"? (My experience with programming is pretty much limited to this mod.) There are some properties declared in the script fragments that are not actually used in the script fragments. (Because I only recently learned how to clean these up.) But they're not doing any harm.

[foreveraloneguy]

4 hours ago, Gristle said:

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but what do you mean by "references" and "populated"? (My experience with programming is pretty much limited to this mod.) There are some properties declared in the script fragments that are not actually used in the script fragments. (Because I only recently learned how to clean these up.) But they're not doing any harm.

When I do "sqv SLSF_Comments_JarlLetterMA" in the console, a list of references are shown. These lines all start with "REF" followed by a variable which is empty. Every time I've seen that before, a quest has failed to run correctly, or often at all, which is why I asked. But this quest did complete, so I guess it doesn't matter for this one? All my other quests have the REF variables populated whether they use scripts or not, so I'm puzzled.

[Gristle]

1 hour ago, foreveraloneguy said:

When I do "sqv SLSF_Comments_JarlLetterMA" in the console, a list of references are shown. These lines all start with "REF" followed by a variable which is empty. Every time I've seen that before, a quest has failed to run correctly, or often at all, which is why I asked. But this quest did complete, so I guess it doesn't matter for this one? All my other quests have the REF variables populated whether they use scripts or not, so I'm puzzled.

The "REF" references appear to be all the aliases used by the quest. When I run the same command, the aliases do have an ID assigned to them. However, I ran the command on a save where the Markarth quest has been started. Since this quest is not "start game enabled," I don't think these aliases will fill until the quest starts. Not sure what the difference would be otherwise.

[foreveraloneguy]

8 hours ago, Gristle said:

The "REF" references appear to be all the aliases used by the quest. When I run the same command, the aliases do have an ID assigned to them. However, I ran the command on a save where the Markarth quest has been started. Since this quest is not "start game enabled," I don't think these aliases will fill until the quest starts. Not sure what the difference would be otherwise.

I ran it after starting the quest.

[Veldon]

I played the Markarth quest. It was partly fun, partly annoying. Taken as a whole I like it – especially the second part. Thank you for the mod.

 

 

During the first part the battles were a problem. It totally sucks if you cannot wear an armour in battle on higher difficulty levels. Most of the time that results in a quick death.

 

All NPCs need a longer leash, since they constantly bump into the player char or stand in the way.

 

The behaviour of Annekke Crag-Jumper was fitting – at least in my opinion. Nonetheless the situation became hilarious, because my char was raped by wimpy Verner while I watched Annekke with him (result of using the mod Adventures).

Even Ulfberth War-Bear was somehow, but not completely, convincing.

Unfortunately Adrianne Avenicci's behaviour does not fit to her quote in the screenshots ("Stay away from my husband, whore!"). It should rather be "Come here, you whore. I want to punish you (, as I am the dominant person in this house)."

After all I would like to see more partnership ideas.

 

 

During the second part I would have preferred more freedom of choice. On the one hand it is good to guide the player, so that the quest steps can be fulfilled. The hints in the journal were absolutely helpful. On the other hand I would have preferred either to be guided by Lilian Vici herself or to have several options to get the needed information. The meeting with the Stormcloaks was too much "deus ex machina".

 

One should be able to speak with Lisette about joining the temple anywhere and not just in The Winking Skeever.

 

Lilians change from a shy devotee of Dibella to the leader of the temple happened too fast. More quest parts with the former high priestess / the ghost would have been better to turn her from a shiy devotee to an outgoing devotee to a Sister of Dibella to the new leader of the temple (or a speaker for the old leader aka the ghost). Besides, in any case the ghost should stay permanently as a temple warden. Another option would be an avatar of Dibella who watches over her devotees as Lilian needs time to internalise the Dibellan doctrine.

 

The temple in Solitude itself seems to be perfect for Dibella: A parlour for witty talks, pure unspoiled love and – of course – sensual pleasures.

Alas, with the (almost) excellent mod "The Sisterhood of Dibella" in mind the Markarth quest does not feel like a proper Dibella quest. Essentially you are acting like mother Hamal by pursuing the ancient ways. So the whole quest – especially the constant nakedness and concentration on the carnal side – feels much more like serving Sanguine. It does not help that the members of the new temple call Lilian Vici a whore or slut.

 

There are already sentences that demand a decision. It would be nice, if these sentences incluence the progress of the quest. Will Lilian become a less shy devotee of Dibella and later on a proper Sister of Dibella or will she end up as a wanton Whore of Sanguine? As in "The Sisterhood of Dibella" her fate should be in the players hands, since she throws herself willingly into the arms of the player.

What can the former high priestess / the ghost do against corruption? Can the ghost save her descendant or will the ghost fall prey to Sanguine as well (colour change from blue to red – think of some TES: Oblivion quests).

Will you end up with a temple of Dibella or a temple of Sanguine in the end? Will there be an avatar of Dibella or an avatar of Sanguine who teaches Lilian the Dibellan or Sanguinian doctrine?

 

 

As an important side note:

You should be allowed to wear clothing again in Markarth, if your fame is low enough after some time. Otherwise the quest forces the player in one direction which becomes quite annoying in the long run.

 

And … Who the heck is Rolf? Does he have any influence on the quest?

Edited June 25, 2023 by Veldon

[Smilinjim]

Hello Gristle,

 

Love the mod, but I noticed the latest iteration had several errors reported from TES5Edit. I used a script that I found on Nexus that fixed most of them here:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/114984?tab=description

I should probably note that I am on LE

Thanks for sharing your project.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Smilinjim

[Gristle]

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

I played the Markarth quest. It was partly fun, partly annoying. Taken as a whole I like it – especially the second part. Thank you for the mod.

You're welcome, and thanks for the feedback and comments.

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

During the first part the battles were a problem. It totally sucks if you cannot wear an armour in battle on higher difficulty levels. Most of the time that results in a quick death.

In playtesting, the bandit fight was very difficult for me as well, and does make the quest almost impossible for lower level characters. But, I thought the typical PC would be higher level by the time they made it to Markarth and built upon enough fame to start the quest. What level was your PC? I could allow the PC to wear armor in combat, but it would take away from the theme of the quest somewhat. Another option would be to make Rogen much stronger, so he can be of more help in combat. For playtesting, where I was often starting new characters, I ended up using the Dibella's Blessings mod, which helped a lot. Even so, I had to be very strategic about the combat.

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

All NPCs need a longer leash, since they constantly bump into the player char or stand in the way.

I used the default 'follow player' AI package, which is 128-256 units, but I see now that other vanilla follow packages use 250-500 units, so I will plan to switch to this.

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

The behaviour of Annekke Crag-Jumper was fitting – at least in my opinion. Nonetheless the situation became hilarious, because my char was raped by wimpy Verner while I watched Annekke with him (result of using the mod Adventures).

Annekke's character builds on her vanilla dialogue, and also in part on the Amorous Adventures quest for her.

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

Even Ulfberth War-Bear was somehow, but not completely, convincing.

Ulfberth's character (i.e., sexual preference) is also based on the Amorous Adventures quest.

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

Unfortunately Adrianne Avenicci's behaviour does not fit to her quote in the screenshots ("Stay away from my husband, whore!"). It should rather be "Come here, you whore. I want to punish you (, as I am the dominant person in this house)."

I wouldn't say Adrianne dominates Ulfberth. They are more partners, each with their own interests. In any case, the "stay away from my husband" line is from the mod's core dialogue, and can only be said by a married NPC with a Relationship Rank to the PC of less than 1. So, Adrianne can no longer deliver this line once your PC befriends her though this or any other quest (this mod does raise her relationship rank with the PC).

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

After all I would like to see more partnership ideas.

Not sure what you mean here. Did go with Adrianne on one of her midnight walks (option still available post-quest)? That's currently the only side quest associated with this relationship.

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

During the second part I would have preferred more freedom of choice. On the one hand it is good to guide the player, so that the quest steps can be fulfilled. The hints in the journal were absolutely helpful. On the other hand I would have preferred either to be guided by Lilian Vici herself or to have several options to get the needed information. The meeting with the Stormcloaks was too much "deus ex machina".

Open to suggestions here. I could just have the PC wandering around Solitude looking for NPCs that knew anything about the temple or Lillian's grandmother. That would give the PC more agency, but then the meeting in the woods doesn't have much purpose. As for being guided by Lillian, as you may have noticed, her force greets are a bit clumsy, and it took me a long long time to get each of them to work, so I was reluctant to rely on them much to advance the main quest.

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

One should be able to speak with Lisette about joining the temple anywhere and not just in The Winking Skeever.

I agree, but then that makes the surprise meeting with [_______] difficult to stage. Since Lisette is in the Winking Skeever almost constantly, this seemed the easiest solution.

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

Lilians change from a shy devotee of Dibella to the leader of the temple happened too fast. More quest parts with the former high priestess / the ghost would have been better to turn her from a shiy devotee to an outgoing devotee to a Sister of Dibella to the new leader of the temple (or a speaker for the old leader aka the ghost). Besides, in any case the ghost should stay permanently as a temple warden. Another option would be an avatar of Dibella who watches over her devotees as Lilian needs time to internalise the Dibellan doctrine.

I had all kinds of ideas here for quests involving "rebuilding" the temple, and and I agree that the "rebuilding" here is rushed. After working on this quest for a year (my first quest mod) I just ran out of steam and wanted to wrap it up. This sounds like a good Part II adventure, however. As for the ghost, the ghost will stay forever until dismissed.

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

The temple in Solitude itself seems to be perfect for Dibella: A parlour for witty talks, pure unspoiled love and – of course – sensual pleasures.

Alas, with the (almost) excellent mod "The Sisterhood of Dibella" in mind the Markarth quest does not feel like a proper Dibella quest. Essentially you are acting like mother Hamal by pursuing the ancient ways. So the whole quest – especially the constant nakedness and concentration on the carnal side – feels much more like serving Sanguine. It does not help that the members of the new temple call Lilian Vici a whore or slut.

I had ideas involving Sanguine originally (recall Senna's warning about enemies of Dibella), which could tie in well to rebuilding the temple, but as mentioned above, I felt I had to cut the mod off at some point or it would never get posted.

About members of the new temple calling Lillian a whore or slut. I have no idea where that's coming from. That's certainly not dialogue from the quest, and the core dialogue in this mod has NPCs commenting on the PC, not NPCs commenting on other NPCs. So, that doesn't sound like comments from this mod. Do you happen to recall the exact line (or close to it)?

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

There are already sentences that demand a decision. It would be nice, if these sentences incluence the progress of the quest. Will Lilian become a less shy devotee of Dibella and later on a proper Sister of Dibella or will she end up as a wanton Whore of Sanguine? As in "The Sisterhood of Dibella" her fate should be in the players hands, since she throws herself willingly into the arms of the player.

What can the former high priestess / the ghost do against corruption? Can the ghost save her descendant or will the ghost fall prey to Sanguine as well (colour change from blue to red – think of some TES: Oblivion quests).

Will you end up with a temple of Dibella or a temple of Sanguine in the end? Will there be an avatar of Dibella or an avatar of Sanguine who teaches Lilian the Dibellan or Sanguinian doctrine?

I think this would be good material for Part II of the quest. As you say, Part II could determine whether Lillian ultimately becomes a proper Sister of Dibella, or whether she becomes a wanton whore of Sanguine. Part II could also expand the scope a bit, pulling in Elisif (who thankfully is always there, despite civil war outcomes) and the Temple of the Divines as parties interested in or fearful of the new temple. Throw in some agents of Sanguine, and there could be lots of intrigue and tension.

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

As an important side note:

You should be allowed to wear clothing again in Markarth, if your fame is low enough after some time. Otherwise the quest forces the player in one direction which becomes quite annoying in the long run.

Tying it into fame sounds fine. Or maybe doing a favor/quest for the Jarl to convince him to reverse his order? He would like to get to know Sister Senna better, for example.

13 hours ago, Veldon said:

And … Who the heck is Rolf? Does he have any influence on the quest?

He's just meant to add some color (i.e., combat or sex choices) to the (second) Dragon Bridge visit.

 

Finally, did the quest markers show up for you? Some people see them, others don't, and I'm not sure why.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Gristle

[Gristle]

2 hours ago, Smilinjim said:

Hello Gristle,

 

Love the mod, but I noticed the latest iteration had several errors reported from TES5Edit. I used a script that I found on Nexus that fixed most of them here:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/114984?tab=description

I should probably note that I am on LE

Thanks for sharing your project.

You're welcome. I cleaned up some of the reported issues in Version 3.4.1 and will clean up more things in the next version. 

[Veldon]

21 hours ago, Gristle said:

What level was your PC?

The level is 76. Fighting skills on 100. I fought with a tempered duplicate of Volendrung, which saved my life a couple of times. Unfortunately the other side had war hammers, too. ?

 

21 hours ago, Gristle said:

I used the default 'follow player' AI package

Rogen was also quite talkative, too talkative for my taste. At times I wanted to kill him. Unfortunately that was impossible (I tried).

 

21 hours ago, Gristle said:

Annekke's character builds on her vanilla dialogue, and also in part on the Amorous Adventures quest for her.

I never used that, so I cannot compare. Sorry.

 

21 hours ago, Gristle said:

Not sure what you mean here. Did go with Adrianne on one of her midnight walks (option still available post-quest)? That's currently the only side quest associated with this relationship.

If you are going to create more quests or if you are continuing the Markarth-Solitude quest, I would like to see more NPCs involved. Annekke and Adrianne were fun.

 

21 hours ago, Gristle said:

I agree, but then that makes the surprise meeting with [_______] difficult to stage. Since Lisette is in the Winking Skeever almost constantly, this seemed the easiest solution.

You've got a point there. I went to The Winking Skeever to sleep some hours after I could not talk with Lisette, who was waiting some hours in front of the academy.

 

21 hours ago, Gristle said:

After working on this quest for a year (my first quest mod)

Good start. ?

 

21 hours ago, Gristle said:

As for the ghost, the ghost will stay forever until dismissed.

Yeah. I had to reload to keep her. ?

 

21 hours ago, Gristle said:

About members of the new temple calling Lillian a whore or slut. I have no idea where that's coming from.

From your mod. ?

Here are the quotes (f.e. dismissive Vivienne and Bryling in the temple after the quest):

• "Look! The Vici girl is a shameless whore!"
• "I always knew you were a slut, Lilly!"
• "Lilly! How can you do such a thing!"
• "It's the Vici girl, and without any clothes on!"

A special one:

• "Lillian Vici! Exposing yourself! I can't believe it!" (said to the PC)

 

21 hours ago, Gristle said:

Finally, did the quest markers show up for you? Some people see them, others don't, and I'm not sure why.

They did and where quite helpful. ?

Edited June 26, 2023 by Veldon

[Gristle]

5 hours ago, Veldon said:

From your mod. ?

Here are the quotes (f.e. dismissive Vivienne and Bryling in the temple after the quest):

• "Look! The Vici girl is a shameless whore!"
• "I always knew you were a slut, Lilly!"
• "Lilly! How can you do such a thing!"
• "It's the Vici girl, and without any clothes on!"

A special one:

• "Lillian Vici! Exposing yourself! I can't believe it!" (said to the PC)

 

Thanks for the feedback! Yes, the above are my mistake. These are meant to be delivered only when Lilly is seen naked by non-temple-faction Solitude NPCs (currently, should be relevant only during the temple search). I excluded the Markarth Dibella Temple faction from these comments and neglected to exclude the new Solitude Dibella Temple faction. I will fix. 

 

And, yes, the above are all PC-triggered "Hello" comments. I'm cheating a bit using "Hello" comments to make NPCs comment on a PC's follower, so the headtracking is not ideal. But "Hello" comments are a 100x easier and 1000x more bulletproof to implement than a script to put nearby NPCs into aliases and start scenes or trigger forcegreets with Lilly. (Also, I'm changing the phrasing on the last one to "exposing herself" to hide the issue a bit.)

Edited June 27, 2023 by Gristle

[Veldon]

20 hours ago, Gristle said:

to make NPCs comment on a PC's follower

Well, at this point Lillian was no longer a follower. Quest done, Lillian gone. I guess that needs some fine tuning. ? Still good work.

 

Found another minor inconvenience. Since I installed the mod these lines are said way more frequently than before: "Hello, ladies! Is there anything a big strong man can do for you this fine day?" – "I don't know. If you see any big strong men around, let us know, will you?"

[Gristle]

7 hours ago, Veldon said:

Found another minor inconvenience. Since I installed the mod these lines are said way more frequently than before: "Hello, ladies! Is there anything a big strong man can do for you this fine day?" – "I don't know. If you see any big strong men around, let us know, will you?"

Those are lines from a vanilla dialogue scene. This mod doesn't edit (or create) any scenes, so no idea why the scene would be more frequent. The first line is said by a male Nord and is directed at two females, one of which has a Female Sultry voice, and one of which has a Female Commoner, Female Even-Toned or Female Nord voice. Maybe you've been hanging around with such ladies? 

[cxsora]

Expect the lines of SLSF_Comments_Self_Idle and SLSF_Comments_Self_Hello.

The Gobles about clothes only 2 options(skimpy and topless), seems not enough, may can reference other mods like SL Aroused Redux LE BakaFactory Edited Version and State of Dress.

[Gristle]

8 hours ago, cxsora said:

Expect the lines of SLSF_Comments_Self_Idle and SLSF_Comments_Self_Hello.

Did you mean "explain" these lines? These comments don't generate subtitles (or voiced lines with a voice pack) because they are first-person thoughts. Instead they generate "notifications" which appear in the upper left corner of the screen. So, if you are looking at these lines in SSEEdit, you won't see any dialogue, because the notification is generated by a script fragment.

8 hours ago, cxsora said:

The Gobles about clothes only 2 options(skimpy and topless), seems not enough, may can reference other mods like SL Aroused Redux LE BakaFactory Edited Version and State of Dress.

The main intent with 'skimpy' and 'topless' was to refine the current comment set, especially with respect to comments on the PC's breasts or genitals. So, the intent was to make comments on the PC's body more correct, and not to generate new comments on clothing or armor.  Implementing these switches did lead to some new comments, but mostly allowed for reuse of existing comments. For example, one can "show off" or "tease" with nudity or skimpy clothing.

 

Also, I don't find the Baka keywords very useful for purposes of this mod. They don't provide enough information as to what body parts are visible (e.g., what does a half naked bikini cover? or armor half naked? or erotic armor?).  Also, they seem to be overly detailed (e.g., do we really need comments that distinguish between miniskirts and microskirts, or between the four types of thongs?). And, without additional programming, they don't provide any means to know if the item with the keyword is visible or not (e.g., can the NPC actually see the panties or the bra/bikini?).  

 

I haven't taken a close look at State of Dress, but it looks like it may address the first and third comments above.