zippy57 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Except I don't think that applies here. You don't pay for the phone service before you sign the contract, do you?
Someone92 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 When was the last time, that you/we read a EULA before it was ok'd and you/we just installed the game? Probably a very high percentage of people just click "I Accept" and move on, because the service or game you bought, usually works without incident. The problem usually arises when we have issue with something, whether the game is broken, became broken, or doesn't meet up to what WE assumed to be reasonable expectations. Then the publisher/developer throws in our face, something that we signed and agreed to, the EULA/Terms/SLA, and usually we have no recourse because the terms THEY set forth are entirely one-sided and unconscionable. That's exactly why they are void in Germany.
zippy57 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I would think they'd be void everywhere, since you only see it after you pay for the game. There's no way to return the game and get your money back if you don't want to agree to the EULA. They are literally forcing you to sign it or throw your money away, and that makes the agreement (a.k.a. contract) non-binding.
sniperdoc Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Except I don't think that applies here. You don't pay for the phone service before you sign the contract, do you? @Zippy57: Oh I agree with what you're saying... however that's not how corporate America sees it. Here consumer protection laws protect the corporations... not the the consumer. I have a lot of lawyer friends and they even tell me that this industry is "too new" and there's no precedent set for a lot of what they're doing, so there's not enough lawyers willing to take on a new genre of law really. Not saying there aren't any, there are just too few that specialize with IP (Intellectual Property) in the software consumer market. The ones that are, generally work for the big daddy-o's... EDIT: However, after a short thought after posting this, I think this is also why EA is offering refunds on physical copies of the game. I think when purchasing the game via a download on Origin, you are covered by the Origin EULA, which then kind of blankets all purchases on there, in essence, you've agreed to the Origin EULA, which means you've agreed before any purchase. @Someone92: That's one reason why I love my country. They've not completely left their people in the dirt. It's not all hookers and sunshine... but in a LOT of ways Germany is so far ahead of the power curve compared to the US it's not even worth comparing. I still wonder why so many foreigners come to the United States to go to college. They are neither the most advanced, nor the best trained, yet most foreign nations want to go to college in the US.
gregathit Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Why come to America for college????? Hot chicks and beer of course.....what else is there to college?
Someone92 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Why come to America for college????? Hot chicks and beer of course.....what else is there to college? Tz, if beer is your indicator in which country you would want to go to college the US would be near the bottom of your list.
gregathit Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Why come to America for college????? Hot chicks and beer of course.....what else is there to college? Tz, if beer is your indicator in which country you would want to go to college the US would be near the bottom of your list. Not if you want your beer served cold! But that is a "whole other story". Besides, back when I was a college student (decades ago) "what" you drank was not really important. It was "how much" was available and at "what cost", that were the important parts. Considering I would drink at minimum of a suite case (24 pack) at a party and was putting myself through college on my own nickle, beggars couldn't be choosers. Now that I am much older, more well off, and would die trying to drink that much in one evening, I am far more choosy. You are aware no doubt that we can get pretty much any countries beer we want over here right?
BruceWayne Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I don't want to be the "party-pooper", but what you might call "beer", wouldn't pass as beer over here While the average college/university might not be of the same standard as the average university in Germany, there is no university in Germany that comes even close to the top 10 in the US. But what do you expect for 750€/semester (soon to be 300€ again) as opposed to 10000$/semester upwards. Private schools do have some advantages, as opposed to the public system we have here. There are some very good private ones here as well, but nothing comes close to the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Yale, etc. So, if I would have had the money to go private, I'd have chosen an american university as well. Granted they would have taken me of course. Enough with all that "it's better here or there" blabla, we're here to hate on EA!
Something Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 How the hell is EA still in business at this point?!
kurisu7885 Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 I'm simply skipping this one as if I want Sim City I can get Sim City 4 on Steam. The last EA title I can think of that I purchased was Crysis, and I got The Sims 3 from a thrift shop, however I stopped playing that when it kept bugging me to install Origin. And Starcraft 2 is not Always Online, as you can play single player offline, whis his sane. Diablo 3 however has always online. After I got kicked out of my SINGLE PLAYER game due to an internet hiccup, I uninstalled the game as I am not wasting my time on a game where an internet hiccup would hurt people player.
kurisu7885 Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 How the hell is EA still in business at this point?! Battlefield.
larryrunner Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 Hey people, here's some more fuel for the fire https://pay.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1a9t0e/simcity_modder_removes_always_online_forced/
BruceWayne Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 Hey people, here's some more fuel for the fire https://pay.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1a9t0e/simcity_modder_removes_always_online_forced/ Nice find. It's interesting that they didn't cease and desist yet. How the hell is EA still in business at this point?! Enough suckers people who aren't bothered by their practices are still buying their games.
zippy57 Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 If I read that right, sending a cease-and-desist would be a PR decision of even worse proportions. FIrst, they've claimed online-only is not DRM, so they can't send a cease-and-desist related to breaking DRM. Second, they've already said modding these files is permitted. Saying otherwise would be a blatant lie. So far they've only done mostly-blatant lies.
BruceWayne Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 "Ist der Ruf erst ruiniert, lebt es sich ganz ungeniert" ("If the reputation is ruined, one can live without shame" or something to that effect). What I want to say is, EA's reputation is so far beyond repair, it basically doesn't matter what they do or say from this point on. I mean I fell for their cloud-computing argument as well, it seemed like something that would make sense for a game of this kind. But that article basically proves that always-on-DRM (or "Multiplayer", how they call it) is the only reason. I wouldn't be surprised if they stealth-patch those discovered mod functions out of the game, they seem to be left-over dev tools and look like something that they would sell in a 10$ DLC.
BruceWayne Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 There is a difference between hatred and being fed up with destructive business practices that screw over paying customers. I feel no hatred towards EA or anyone else for that matter. If you feel that speaking ones mind equals spreading hatred, than I feel you are missing the point. Although the thread is titled "let's hate on EA", so I give you that.
BruceWayne Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 I'm not mad at you, believe me, I'm with you on the whole hatred-pollutes-the-mind thing. But if everyone just rolls over and plays nice, those who sit at the lever are pushing ever forward to see how far they can go, until someone says stop. And in this case EA overstepped its boundaries, by introducing unnecessary restrictions for a game, which are not at all mandatory for its functions, which has been proven by the offline mod/hack. And since this is not the first time EA has done something like this, people get fed up. Speaking of which, they've just removed the discussion about the offline mod from their forums, but are encouraging people to continue the dialogue?! http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/122711-EA-Removes-Forum-Posts-for-SimCity-Offline-Mod "It's okay if you're trying to fix our software yourself, just don't do it here. People could get the wrong impression."
gregathit Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 I understand I hope you don't get mad at me for this. actually if you don't like something then don't buy it, but insulting them when their decisions don't comply to your preference is totally wrong. this is totally wrong. when you hate someone you just pollute your own mind. nothing happens to another. When a company lies, and engages in business practices that are shady "at best," responsible consumers have every right to call a company to account. It has nothing to do with "hate", it has everything to do with getting them to STOP engaging in practices that are in many cases unethical. Yes, not purchasing their products is an important first step, but the next step is logically to expose those practices to the public at large so folks are aware of just how ridiculous the company is being. To try to deny consumers this voice is to try to steal free speech from them, and let me tell you, that dog won't hunt!
kepler007 Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 @gregathit it's not nice you labeled me as a pirate. wow
FallenWarrior Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 He didn't label you as a pirate. He just removed the parts about pirating games.
kepler007 Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 then he would have removed that part only without saying "Removed Piracy Discussion" what he has posted gives a bad impression to people I discussed about pirated stuff so my post was edited. this is so inappropriate and rude.
gregathit Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 then he would have removed that part only without saying "Removed Piracy Discussion" what he has posted gives a bad impression to people I discussed about pirated stuff so my post was edited. this is so inappropriate and rude. You did discuss it and I did remove it. End of discussion on the forum. You are welcome to PM me and we can discuss it further if you like.
kurisu7885 Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 If I read that right, sending a cease-and-desist would be a PR decision of even worse proportions. FIrst, they've claimed online-only is not DRM, so they can't send a cease-and-desist related to breaking DRM. Second, they've already said modding these files is permitted. Saying otherwise would be a blatant lie. So far they've only done mostly-blatant lies. Would either of those things really matter to a lawyer?
gregathit Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 If I read that right, sending a cease-and-desist would be a PR decision of even worse proportions. FIrst, they've claimed online-only is not DRM, so they can't send a cease-and-desist related to breaking DRM. Second, they've already said modding these files is permitted. Saying otherwise would be a blatant lie. So far they've only done mostly-blatant lies. Would either of those things really matter to a lawyer? Good point. While this of course would not matter to a lawyer, those lawyers do understand that they are being paid by EA, so they won't do anything without consulting "the man" first. In this case however, I am unsure if EA even cares about its image enough to restrain its lawyers, so I would not be shocked if they did take some action.
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