Boston Devious Helper ALPHA

[izzyknows]

2 minutes ago, sen4mi said:

 

The fusion girl patch for Dicky's outfit seems to work, initially, but for some reason does not seem to adapt properly to body morphs.

 

 

Probably because the morph script is for CBBE/Vanilla. I'm guessing FG has different values for morphing certain parts. (just a guess mind you!)

[sen4mi]

5 minutes ago, izzyknows said:

Probably because the morph script is for CBBE/Vanilla. I'm guessing FG has different values for morphing certain parts. (just a guess mind you!)

 

Huh... but other fusion girl outfits seem to work, .. but I guess I do not adequately understand morphing and the differences between cbbe and fg.

 

--------

 

I should also mention: When asking for devices to be removed, we have a second "demanding" option, which removes everything (even quest items from other mods).

 

I think this would play better if it only removed items which prevented self defense (wrist bindings, blinding devices and movement slowing DD gear. And I maybe gags, also, since we don't have a "gag filter" which can modify voice lines.)

Edited March 29, 2023 by sen4mi

[izzyknows]

31 minutes ago, sen4mi said:

I think this would play better if it only removed items

The issue arises when a mod like Sexual Harassment slaps a collar on you, it uses the Real Handcuffs collar and thus needs far more work to figure out "if" it's a quest item. Basically you can't make a protected list without some of the items having a keyword attached, for example, to let other mods know it's a quest item. But then, what if you want to BDH to remove the collar? Can't have MCM options without a way to identify "quest" items.

Yes I'd love for that kind of options, but I believe other mods would have to help out. Which to be honest, would be very nice if they did. That way any mod could easily remove or leave a restraint.

[vaultbait]

3 minutes ago, izzyknows said:

The issue arises when a mod like Sexual Harassment slaps a collar on you, it uses the Real Handcuffs collar and thus needs far more work to figure out "if" it's a quest item. Basically you can't make a protected list without some of the items having a keyword attached, for example, to let other mods know it's a quest item. But then, what if you want to BDH to remove the collar? Can't have MCM options without a way to identify "quest" items.

Yes I'd love for that kind of options, but I believe other mods would have to help out. Which to be honest, would be very nice if they did. That way any mod could easily remove or leave a restraint.

 

I expect the only way for that to be reliably solvable is with some sort of "community keywords" plugin that all mods carry integration for. There's no way I'm aware of to list all keywords attached to a ref or a form, instead there would need to be a sort of standard keyword set so that mods could check for specific ones explicitly. It could be done fairly easily as a soft integration, similar to how mods can check items to see if they have AAF's protected equipment keywords. I guess an alternative to a community keywords plugin would be some convention where specific (maybe absurdly-selected) keywords from Fallout4.esm with no side effects were agreed on by consensus as signals for rules like "only the mod which equipped this item should unequip it" (and then it's up to individual mods to track what items they've equipped of course, maybe by applying their own custom keywords that they know to check for).

[izzyknows]

On 3/29/2023 at 5:58 PM, vaultbait said:

I expect the only way for that to be reliably solvable is with some sort of "community keywords" plugin that all mods carry integration for.

Or it could be done like SAKR or maybe even have @twistedtrebla add one or two to SAKR

and folks could make patches for the current & future mods. Or mod authors could integrate the keywords right off the bat.

[vaultbait]

5 minutes ago, izzyknows said:

Or it could be done like SAKR or maybe even have @twistedtrebla add one or two to SAKR

and folks could make patches for the current & future mods. Or mod authors could integrate the keywords right off the bat.

 

Yep, that's precisely what I meant by "some sort of 'community keywords' plugin that all mods carry integration for."

 

Also, RobCo Patcher ought to be able to do that right out of the box without needing creation of extra plugin patches, just needs a text file saying what keywords from what plugins you want added to which forms from what other plugins, and presto. Last week I posted a similar example for globally overriding Sexual Harassment ActorValues on a specific race.

Edited March 31, 2023 by vaultbait

[twistedtrebla]

11 hours ago, izzyknows said:

Or it could be done like SAKR or maybe even have @twistedtrebla add one or two to SAKR

and folks could make patches for the current & future mods. Or mod authors could integrate the keywords right off the bat.

Sorry haven't been following.

 

What's the requirement? We need a keyword to indicate that certain armors are "quest items" and therefore "off limits"? Is the scope simply for defining when an armor should not be unequipped or are there other needs than that?

[vaultbait]

10 minutes ago, twistedtrebla said:

Sorry haven't been following.

 

What's the requirement? We need a keyword to indicate that certain armors are "quest items" and therefore "off limits"? Is the scope simply for defining when an armor should not be unequipped or are there other needs than that?

 

Yes, the discussion (prior to SAKR emerging) was that we could create a keyword resource mod which other mods could use to flag specific references as off-limits for removal by other mods. Something along the lines of "if you didn't equip this item, don't remove it."

 

SAKR just happened to show up as an example of doing something very similar by providing keywords that other mods are expected to apply, though I think the point of applying SAKR's keywords is to communicate something to SAKR itself, it's not (that I can see) serving as a more general point of coordination between multiple unrelated mods.

 

Closer to being prior art for this is AAF's protected equipment keywords... Mods register keywords with AAF and other mods can ask AAF for a list of those keywords. The original intent was as a mechanism for mods to tell AAF not to strip something, but the scene has progressed to the point where some mods now query AAF for a list of those keywords and then obey their presence on worn items as well (a current example is Violate's built-in stripping mechanism obeying AAF protected equipment keywords).

 

Where the AAF example is not quite the same as what we're discussing is that AAF is sharing an array of keywords registered into it by other mods, rather than merely supplying those keywords from its own plugin.

Edited April 1, 2023 by vaultbait

[twistedtrebla]

1 hour ago, vaultbait said:

 

Yes, the discussion (prior to SAKR emerging) was that we could create a keyword resource mod which other mods could use to flag specific references as off-limits for removal by other mods. Something along the lines of "if you didn't equip this item, don't remove it."

 

SAKR just happened to show up as an example of doing something very similar by providing keywords that other mods are expected to apply, though I think the point of applying SAKR's keywords is to communicate something to SAKR itself, it's not (that I can see) serving as a more general point of coordination between multiple unrelated mods.

 

Closer to being prior art for this is AAF's protected equipment keywords... Mods register keywords with AAF and other mods can ask AAF for a list of those keywords. The original intent was as a mechanism for mods to tell AAF not to strip something, but the scene has progressed to the point where some mods now query AAF for a list of those keywords and then obey their presence on worn items as well (a current example is Violate's built-in stripping mechanism obeying AAF protected equipment keywords).

 

Where the AAF example is not quite the same as what we're discussing is that AAF is sharing an array of keywords registered into it by other mods, rather than merely supplying those keywords from its own plugin.

I see. One concern I have is.. say we have such a keyword "itemProtected". How would mods know who set the protected keyword? Mods like sexual harassment both equip and unequip collars. So when it sees that the player is wearing a collar with "itemProtected" keyword, how would it know its safe to remove it? If the keyword was set by another mod, SH should leave it alone. But if it was set by SH, SH is free to unequip it. But there's no way to tell the difference and determine who equipped the collar and set the protected keyword.

 

I feel like unequip restriction needs to be governed by the mod that introduced the collar - real handcuffs. It already governs when a player can equip and unequip. It just needs to extend that to mods as well.

 

Also if we wanted a keyword then real handcuffs is prob the best place for it. The mod can establish a rule for what each of the keyword is supposed to mean.

Edited April 1, 2023 by twistedtrebla

[vaultbait]

10 hours ago, twistedtrebla said:

I see. One concern I have is.. say we have such a keyword "itemProtected". How would mods know who set the protected keyword? Mods like sexual harassment both equip and unequip collars. So when it sees that the player is wearing a collar with "itemProtected" keyword, how would it know its safe to remove it? If the keyword was set by another mod, SH should leave it alone. But if it was set by SH, SH is free to unequip it. But there's no way to tell the difference and determine who equipped the collar and set the protected keyword.

 

The suggestion was that in addition to choosing a standard "CantTouchThis" keyword mods are expected to check for the existence of, they would also have their own custom "EquippedBy" keyword they set on the ref when equipping. So when FooMod equips QuuxCollar for a quest, it sets both CantTouchThis and EquippedByFoo. If BarMod wants to remove things the player is wearing, it knows to check for the presence of CantTouchThis, sees it set on QuuxCollar, checks for the presence of EquippedByBar, doesn't find that, so skips unequipping it. Later FooMod wants to remove things it added, so it checks for the presence of EquippedByFoo and finds that it can remove the equipped QuuxCollar safely because it has that keyword.

 

10 hours ago, twistedtrebla said:

I feel like unequip restriction needs to be governed by the mod that introduced the collar - real handcuffs. It already governs when a player can equip and unequip. It just needs to extend that to mods as well.

 

That's possible if the mod provides items that are intended to be used that way. But what if a mod wants to be able to use a Nuka-World slave collar as a fallback for users who don't have RH installed? They can set it "locked" and not unequippable by the player so that the base game won't remove it willy-nilly, but a number of mods intentionally ignore that.

 

10 hours ago, twistedtrebla said:

Also if we wanted a keyword then real handcuffs is prob the best place for it. The mod can establish a rule for what each of the keyword is supposed to mean.

 

That would make RH a requirement for coordination between potentially unrelated mods. Probably would be better to make a new (ESL-flagged?) plugin whose sole purpose is to provide one or more standardized coordination keywords, or like I said earlier, choose a keyword from Fallout4.esm with no side effects and declare it a standard means of coordinating this.

 

Alternatively, there's the AAF protected equipment approach with an array of keywords, having mods identify their custom hands-off keywords instead of needing to use a pair of keywords with one of them centrally defined, but the down side to that approach is it requires some mildly arcane calls in Papyrus to retrieve the list of keyword forms at load, and still requires someone to install the mod which supplies that array management script or embed a copy of its file reading routine.

[twistedtrebla]

15 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

The suggestion was that in addition to choosing a standard "CantTouchThis" keyword mods are expected to check for the existence of, they would also have their own custom "EquippedBy" keyword they set on the ref when equipping. So when FooMod equips QuuxCollar for a quest, it sets both CantTouchThis and EquippedByFoo. If BarMod wants to remove things the player is wearing, it knows to check for the presence of CantTouchThis, sees it set on QuuxCollar, checks for the presence of EquippedByBar, doesn't find that, so skips unequipping it. Later FooMod wants to remove things it added, so it checks for the presence of EquippedByFoo and finds that it can remove the equipped QuuxCollar safely because it has that keyword.

 

That should work. I don't think it's the cleanest approach, but I recognize that establishing a standardized way of preventing unequip from other mods for a number of armor mods (real handcuffs, devious devices, raider pet, etc) is not realistic, especially at this point. So I'd be OK providing some form of standardization, even if the implementation of it is going to be a bit ugly.

 

I added the following keyword to SAKR:

sakr_kwd_mFlagUnequipProtectedItem (10026BD) - keyword to mark that a piece of armor is protected and should not be unequipped by other mods

[vaultbait]

21 minutes ago, twistedtrebla said:

 

That should work. I don't think it's the cleanest approach, but I recognize that establishing a standardized way of preventing unequip from other mods for a number of armor mods (real handcuffs, devious devices, raider pet, etc) is not realistic, especially at this point. So I'd be OK providing some form of standardization, even if the implementation of it is going to be a bit ugly.

 

I added the following keyword to SAKR:

sakr_kwd_mFlagUnequipProtectedItem (10026BD) - keyword to mark that a piece of armor is protected and should not be unequipped by other mods

 

Ah, cool! I wasn't actually suggesting it should be added to SAKR specifically, I think izzyknows mainly brought up as an example of a mod using keywords for some similar sorts of signalling, because you released it a couple of days after this discussion started. But yeah, since it's in there now I'll incorporate a check for it into the stripping routines for my mods. Thanks!

[twistedtrebla]

2 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

Ah, cool! I wasn't actually suggesting it should be added to SAKR specifically, I think izzyknows mainly brought up as an example of a mod using keywords for some similar sorts of signalling, because you released it a couple of days after this discussion started. But yeah, since it's in there now I'll incorporate a check for it into the stripping routines for my mods. Thanks!

If there was going to be a central mod for facilitating a keyword, I think SAKR probably made sense. It's intended to be a keyword hub for skimpy/sexy/sex-related armors. 

[izzyknows]

6 hours ago, twistedtrebla said:

If there was going to be a central mod for facilitating a keyword, I think SAKR probably made sense. It's intended to be a keyword hub for skimpy/sexy/sex-related armors. 

Well, I was hoping you'd "maybe" add a little something as SAKR really seemed to be a good fit.

Sorry for non participation, I sometimes have a hard time typing. But @vaultbait does a wonderful job of yapping... errr... disusing the stuff. 

[Mr Zombie Brain]

im confused can anyone help i have the Helper to ask for event chance set to 100 but they always help me without asking for "favors" why?

[katrina.balanchuk]

Tried this mod too.

But other than piper making me dance a couple times nothign happend so far.

I did 3 side quests for her and even did ~ "set bdh_cmd to 123" and nothing happened in or out of dialog tree.

[valcon767]

11 hours ago, Abadyrizk said:

im confused can anyone help i have the Helper to ask for event chance set to 100 but they always help me without asking for "favors" why?

 

you must first agree to a sub relationship with your helper.  this should happen soon(ish) with the mod installed and active,

providing you do not have BDH dialog blocked.  you can set a hotkey in the MCM to turn the block BDH Dialog function on and off.

 

when asking for help make sure to use the right line.  the line with "wipe that smile off" is the wrong line, use the "please help me" line instead.

the "please help me" line should be the first line ( i use xdi so might be positioned differently for you).

your devious helper can also ask  you to do things without you asking for help.

all methods depend on RNG (random number generation)

so setting a slider to 100 is not a sure thing trigger (more like over 99%), but the RNG can still fail.

 

7 hours ago, katrina.balanchuk said:

Tried this mod too.

But other than piper making me dance a couple times nothign happend so far.

I did 3 side quests for her and even did ~ "set bdh_cmd to 123" and nothing happened in or out of dialog tree.

 

the more times you do what you are told, the more options become available.

RNG does play a role in what occurs.

events i have had happen to me include - dancing, run around naked, run around in other clothes, sex with helper, sex with others, masturbation, adding more devices.

there are other events i have not seen yet, but am hoping to.

 

 

hope the information helps (and that information is what i have learned by playing the mod).

 

[ebbluminous]

5 hours ago, katrina.balanchuk said:

Tried this mod too.

But other than piper making me dance a couple times nothign happend so far.

I did 3 side quests for her and even did ~ "set bdh_cmd to 123" and nothing happened in or out of dialog tree.

Check through the options - There are several for the chance for events to happen along times between events. Could be iets set for long periods between events and a low chance to occur...

[katrina.balanchuk]

9 hours ago, ebbluminous said:

Check through the options - There are several for the chance for events to happen along times between events. Could be iets set for long periods between events and a low chance to occur...

 I set days to low and chance to high.

Still no collar .... 

[izzyknows]

25 minutes ago, katrina.balanchuk said:

 I set days to low and chance to high.

Still no collar .... 

Silly question, you did agree to be her sub didn't you?

Because she will still give you tasks just not Mistress ones.

[katrina.balanchuk]

38 minutes ago, izzyknows said:

Silly question, you did agree to be her sub didn't you?

Because she will still give you tasks just not Mistress ones.

yes we are on that road.

I am currently wearing the extra skimpy clothes too and it has triggered extra dialogues form passerby's and some minor consequences.

But set bdh_cmd to 123 has not advanced anything yet.

Used it about 3 times in different locations.

Got the notification "bdh set to 123" all 3 times.

But nothing happened.

I was expecting a "BDH wants ot talk" prompt and then the the bimbo quest withthe collar.

 

Or maybe my affnity with piper is too positive? We had 2 postive affinity dialogues initiated by her at this point.

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by katrina.balanchuk

[izzyknows]

1 hour ago, katrina.balanchuk said:

Or maybe my affnity with piper is too positive?

Affinity has no impact.

Answering in the negative will however lower task rates. So always answer in the positive/submissive.

Using the console command is a tiny bit tricky, you have to wait a few minutes after the last task, but before a new one triggers. Run it to soon, and sometimes it'll be "forgotten".

Other than that, I really don't know why the command wont trigger the collar quest. I mean, as long as the dialogue is active it should fire the quest.

 

Does commands like set bdh_cmd to 42 make the boobs bigger? I know that's not a quest trigger, but ya now.. big boobies..

 

[katrina.balanchuk]

Yes that cmd does work.

Its fr the bimbo arc right?

I tried but went to a previous save to keep it for the bimbofication arc.

[katrina.balanchuk]

Finally got the collar.

is it suppsoed to be purple or am I missing textures?

It seems very clever and erotic just from the beginning conversation with piper 

Edited April 9, 2023 by katrina.balanchuk

[izzyknows]

9 hours ago, katrina.balanchuk said:

Finally got the collar.

is it suppsoed to be purple or am I missing textures?

It seems very clever and erotic just from the beginning conversation with piper 

Kool!

Yes it's pink.