Patreon for sharing tray files... Is it acceptable to sell other people's mods??

[R-Lo]

The problem is that too many people expect to be paid for sharing Sims now,

Two have popped up in the same week and already they have fallen out, this will probably have upset the other 5 or 6 people who are trying to claim payment for celebrity likeness's too,

This whole 'patreon for sims' thing is pretty ridiculous as you're stepping on each others toes while not actually owning the rights to anything, it's all based on other peoples work and cc,

 

This is basically how Pandora Sims operates ?

 

Patreon is for support towards building assets for the game using external software and knowledge of tools outside the game, not for how good you think you are at playing it,

 

It's pretty much abuse of the scheme to expect support towards playing the game and after 10 or so Sims have been created it tends to become very samey and forced creativity while using the earliest made Sims as base Sims,

 

There's a lot of people sharing Sims on the gallery and various sites, including here at LL,

This is just one of the many ways that people play the game I feel this isn't right when people who are posting a comment for the very first time will make it a request for people to pay them to create Sims,

A custom sim is not a mod,

It's a save file being exported and shared from the game,

 

Hunting for cc isn't a tough task at all and it's pretty lame to expect others to pay for it when it's something we sometimes will do while sitting on the toilet or on a lunch break, 

Obviously a cc collection isn't built in a day but in the process of selling other peoples mods, newer gamers are being robbed of the experience of learning about them and how to use them etc leading to a lot of default replacement blunders and missing body parts,

Also I feel that if cc is linked properly it also helps gamers to find other things they like along the way,

I've lost count of how many times I've searched for one specific cc and downloaded another 5-10(at least) along the way,

 

We've had this earlier in the year too when a couple of pages clashed in a dispute for pre-made Sims and if left unchecked, it's only gonna get worse,

I'm of the understanding that the rules at LL regarding support for mod creating will be updated at some stage and I'm hoping that staff will take into consideration this issue where support for re-uploading other peoples content is concerned,

 

As someone who is using patreon myself while learning blender and other softwares and also spends a lot of time and love in CAS, 

I really don't feel that spending time in CAS is something I'd  agree with seeking support for, especially when it's that easy to DL and claim so many thousands of free Sims as a base sim to throw a few garments on and change the hair and makeup to some recent cc,

Voila! Custom sim for December, January, February and so on ...

 

 

 

[Simite]

Yeah I have to say I'd agree with the point you're making, if these custom sim creators where not allowed to re-upload all the CC used on there sims then there would only be what they actually made themselves left; it would really show how little the sim creator has done and how much the CC adds. 

 

They're profiteering from other peoples hard work, they should only be allowed to upload the content they actually made and none of the CC used that they didn't make themselves. Or at the very least have permissions from the creators to profit from the re-uploading of their works.

 

Heck even if they just added links to the original CC sources so that the people who made it can get some notice for their work rather then being packed into a pre-made mods bundle. It would make the sim-creators have to do a bit more work making links to all the content and the players who download the sims would also have to do more work going to download all the CC but in doing so actually knowing who made the mods they are using.

[Crazy Doll]

We see there the perverse aspect of patreon. People now expect to be payed for everything and nothing.

[R-Lo]

Just now, Simite said:

Yeah I have to say I'd agree with the point you're making, if these custom sim creators where not allowed to re-upload all the CC used on there sims then there would only be what they actually made themselves left; it would really show how little the sim creator has done and how much the CC adds. 

 

They're profiteering from other peoples hard work, they should only be allowed to upload the content they actually made and none of the CC used that they didn't make themselves.

 

Yup,

You're hitting the nail on the head,

A while back someone shared some vague info from a sim guru while claiming that creators don't own their work and the community has gone up in smoke,

While trying to get patreon rubbed out it seems that it's just enabled a whole new issue

[R-Lo]

4 minutes ago, Chexx said:

We see there the perverse aspect of patreon. People now expect to be payed for everything and nothing.

 

Patreon isn't the perversion, it's a tool for creators and artists of all types of media not just games,

 

The perversion is that people are fooling themselves into believing that playing a game is hard work,

It's understandable if a player is making the required cc themselves but as far as I know only one does and the rest are taking advantage of others freely uploaded projects

[Crazy Doll]

Yeah, i didn't wanna say Patreon is in fault, just how ppl use it.  I'm absolutly in the same mind as you. Why didn't have create a patreon to share my sims? 2 reasons, they are mine, and sell played time is just a nonsens.

 

English isn't my natural speaking. And i hate th automated translators, so what i say isn't perfect... XD

[R-Lo]

Just now, Chexx said:

Yeah, i didn't wanna say Patreon is in fault, just how ppl use it.  I absolutly i the same mind as you. Why didn't have create a patreon to share my sims? 2 reasons, they are mine, and sell played time is just a nonsens.

 

I've made a bunch of Sims and I don't think I could ever share them as they ARE my game,

It makes me happy to play the game while showing my Sims off,

The fact that they are highly requested tells me that I did an ok job on them!

Although I use patreon for animations I'd never use it for my Sims as that's my play time, also it's gonna bug the hell out of me to see them played out of the character or context I created them in or just flat stripped out and used as a base for someone else's "work"

 

[Crazy Doll]

5 minutes ago, R-Lo said:

 

The fact that they are highly requested tells me that I did an ok job on them!

 

Can confirm that your sims are really, really..... Meooooow!

[27X]

44 minutes ago, R-Lo said:

The problem is that too many people expect to be paid for sharing Sims now,

Irony.

 

It's what's for breakfast.

[R-Lo]

10 minutes ago, Chexx said:

Can confirm that your sims are really, really..... Meooooow!

And a big Meoooow! to you too! xx

It's all about seeing what you like and going for it!!

I never played Sims before TS4 and while looking for cc I saw so many cool and interesting Sims along the way which gave me a lot of inspiration and ideas, Aveira's Tumblr gave me a lot of encouragement to hunt out fairy and fantasy stuff while Slick Clyde gave me a huge motivation to try make some more anime inspired looking stuff,

 

It's a very nice feeling to know that I've been able to share that inspiration along to others too 

 

[Guest]

I can tell you that this kind of thing also happen on the Skyrim side and not since yesterday.
Many install only mods and believe be creators or artists.. ?

So yes I also want to see the rules evolve and be in the side of the original creators too.
I have already made many attempt to see the rules evolve, In waiting it's maybe better to be more reserved in the distribution of our stuff

and do not give it to anyone who just want make easy benefit out of the work of others.
 

[R-Lo]

29 minutes ago, 27X said:

Irony.

 

It's what's for breakfast.

 

I wouldn't so much call it irony but more a case of "monkey see, monkey do"

 

Creator's of cc and animators are using patreon while using software outside of the game and it's manual/tutorial,

It requires a lot of actual learning and research to use these programs

 

A certain creator pops up with a link to a wixsite full of ugly and rushed celeb sims and now a bunch of people think that it's a business model,

 

The real irony is that it's anti-patreon statements that has opened the door for these people to create more paywalls ?

[1K4R1 5H1RUD0]

1 hour ago, R-Lo said:

The problem is that too many people expect to be paid for sharing Sims now,

Two have popped up in the same week and already they have fallen out, this will probably have upset the other 5 or 6 people who are trying to claim payment for celebrity likeness's too,

This whole 'patreon for sims' thing is pretty ridiculous as you're stepping on each others toes while not actually owning the rights to anything, it's all based on other peoples work and cc,

 

This is basically how Pandora Sims operates ?

 

Patreon is for support towards building assets for the game using external software and knowledge of tools outside the game, not for how good you think you are at playing it,

 

It's pretty much abuse of the scheme to expect support towards playing the game and after 10 or so Sims have been created it tends to become very samey and forced creativity while using the earliest made Sims as base Sims,

 

There's a lot of people sharing Sims on the gallery and various sites, including here at LL,

This is just one of the many ways that people play the game I feel this isn't right when people who are posting a comment for the very first time will make it a request for people to pay them to create Sims,

A custom sim is not a mod,

It's a save file being exported and shared from the game,

 

Hunting for cc isn't a tough task at all and it's pretty lame to expect others to pay for it when it's something we sometimes will do while sitting on the toilet or on a lunch break, 

Obviously a cc collection isn't built in a day but in the process of selling other peoples mods, newer gamers are being robbed of the experience of learning about them and how to use them etc leading to a lot of default replacement blunders and missing body parts,

Also I feel that if cc is linked properly it also helps gamers to find other things they like along the way,

I've lost count of how many times I've searched for one specific cc and downloaded another 5-10(at least) along the way,

 

We've had this earlier in the year too when a couple of pages clashed in a dispute for pre-made Sims and if left unchecked, it's only gonna get worse,

I'm of the understanding that the rules at LL regarding support for mod creating will be updated at some stage and I'm hoping that staff will take into consideration this issue where support for re-uploading other peoples content is concerned,

 

As someone who is using patreon myself while learning blender and other softwares and also spends a lot of time and love in CAS, 

I really don't feel that spending time in CAS is something I'd  agree with seeking support for, especially when it's that easy to DL and claim so many thousands of free Sims as a base sim to throw a few garments on and change the hair and makeup to some recent cc,

Voila! Custom sim for December, January, February and so on ...

 

 

 

No Capping That whole paying for Household Trays through patreon is kinda silly to me due to the fact you still could just build them yourself

[R-Lo]

2 minutes ago, Sesshomaru4d@yahoo.com said:

No Capping That whole paying for Household Trays through patreon is kinda silly to me due to the fact you still could just build them yourself

 

Yes,

Considered that the very first time you start the game it requires you to "create a sim" and offers options to "randomise" for a base model that can be modelled(or modded) into a unique and interesting character,

 

For me, a pre-made family would be like buying a copy of Final Fantasy which has already been completed,

Or a reel of last week's lotto tickets/ already rubbed down scratch-cards

[R-Lo]

50 minutes ago, komotor said:

I can tell you that this kind of thing also happen on the Skyrim side and not since yesterday.
Many install only mods and believe be creators or artists.. ?

So yes I also want to see the rules evolve and be in the side of the original creators too.
I have already made many attempt to see the rules evolve, In waiting it's maybe better to be more reserved in the distribution of our stuff

and do not give it to anyone who just want make easy benefit out of the work of others.
 

 

I can imagine it's happening a lot over various sites and games,

I'm still fairly new to the modding community and I've come across a few articles related to this and no matter how specific the uploaders requests it's ignored,

 

Admittedly I have edited some cc and meshes when creating my girls which goes against some terms but I do not share this and it contributes to my reasons for not uploading my Sims, free or paid,

This is something that I have been doing to optimize my game and better understand another aspect of creating, not profit from,

 

I do agree with you too in the case of some creators could be become less open or regular with uploads as a result of their work being hijacked 

[SimsNomads]

 

Well one thing is for sure I dont claim other peoples stuff lol. Its not mine and 2, I dont even bother with patreon. Too many users eating up peoples money for bullshit profit except the ones who really got skills in modding.

 

This is my imagination of whats really going on lol pacman represents the cc thief's eating up the creators creation claiming it to be theirs and the creators are the ones behind the scenes that are ghost trying to haunt the cc thief's down. 

 

 

 

 

[SimsNomads]

CC THEFT AUTO 

[R-Lo]

4 minutes ago, SimsNomads said:

CC THEFT AUTO 

More like "28 Mods later" 

Seems to be infectious ?

[SimsNomads]

Just hire some CC Enforcers >>I<<  

 

[mrrakkonn]

I still kind of think it's fine to package in CC with stuff if you give credit where it's due, also helps preserve CC in a community where people are prone to just delete their site and content and disappear. But alot of people just export the tray and slap down the names of a couple of CC creators they recognize using and call it a day. 

 

Then there's the Patreon thing. Bottom line is that people are lazy and undiscerning. Slap some skin overlays and alpha hairs on some sims made using a modestly attractive base sim and people seem to want it, thinking they cant make anything like it themselves. Stick a price tag on it and they'll pay. 

[R-Lo]

3 hours ago, mrrakkonn said:

I still kind of think it's fine to package in CC with stuff if you give credit where it's due, also helps preserve CC in a community where people are prone to just delete their site and content and disappear. But alot of people just export the tray and slap down the names of a couple of CC creators they recognize using and call it a day. 

 

Then there's the Patreon thing. Bottom line is that people are lazy and undiscerning. Slap some skin overlays and alpha hairs on some sims made using a modestly attractive base sim and people seem to want it, thinking they cant make anything like it themselves. Stick a price tag on it and they'll pay. 

 

Hi!

I'm glad you chimed in as you have already made a decent example,

I agree with your statement and this is ultimately the line too which is being crossed by others,

 

While it's understandable that a lot of cc is subject to creators going AWOL and closed Tumblr nsfw policy of recent,

Custom Sims are definitely a way of preservation for cc and when the cc is shared with a free sim, the creators have very little reason to get angry and most are just happy to see a healthy download count at least, 

 

When people are profiting from their work by paywalling it, this becomes a huge difference as it impacts on the profile they themselves are trying to build and hijacked content means hijacked traffic and exposure too meaning that they are being robbed of precious feedback and suggestions,

Although a free sim diverts the traffic, it's still a public discussion and nobody is left out

 

 

In this aspect of sharing others mods I hold you as an exception,

You don't just upload the content of others, you're sharing something more,

 

I like the way that you'll show various scenarios and look-books etc and that you'll take time to show them in action,

It's nice to see actual Sims in character made from imagination and genuine enjoyment of the game,

Also it's awesome that you take time to show and discuss the changes you're making and when the new default mods come along,

 

I don't think any of the paid/forced out pre-made Sims have any real presence apart from being a pretty cc combo,

Your Sims actually have an identity here and people recognise them through various scenes you've shared and also your poses and animation works,

 

Funny thing is that out of all the folks that do uploaded Sims, your probably the only one I'd justify and agree with supporting as I believe that your patrons would get a lot more than just a folder of recent cc findings, 

 

[Julie J]

I don't believe in Tray files been sold on Patreon, only if they're packaged with Maxis/basegame content.

As a free cc creator I don't want any of my content uploaded with someone's sim and they're making the money from it and the cc creators not getting a penny.

It's the reason I have a no adfly, no Patreon policy with my custom content.

 

If I do want to start and make money I would set up Patreon myself. Making cc is just a hobby to me.

 

 

[R-Lo]

1 hour ago, Julie J said:

I don't believe in Tray files been sold on Patreon, only if they're packaged with Maxis/basegame content.

As a free cc creator I don't want any of my content uploaded with someone's sim and they're making the money from it and the cc creators not getting a penny.

It's the reason I have a no adfly, no Patreon policy with my custom content.

 

If I do want to start and make money I would set up Patreon myself. Making cc is just a hobby to me.

 

 

 

That's also an interesting point Julie,

A few creators of clothing and accessories etc do use patreon for support and I'm wondering how many of the people selling their work actually contribute to them from their "earnings"

[mrrakkonn]

Damm, R-Lo you making me blush with all those words. 

 

I would like to correct you though, I actually use extensive references for mye sims' faces, though I sometimes end up tweaking those further off the original reference picture (always aim to get both view from the front and the side in order to get nose and chin fight) or from additional ones, so many of my sims are 'composites' of a number of different faces.

 

Anyway the trick is to accept that you probably wont get something that looks identical to your reference, and in any case that wouldn't be that interesting. The most unique sim faces always start out as ambitious failures.

[Crazy Doll]

8 minutes ago, mrrakkonn said:

The most unique sim faces always start out as ambitious failures.

So true.