What do you think about Vortex?

[Mr. Otaku]

6 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

What are they calling 'heavy modding'? And did they say how or why NMM cannot handle it?

NMM in my experience used to give out when i added too many mods. For example, FNIS would absolutely not work with NMM, would always bring up major errors in the logs. I think it's because every time FNIS operates it adds and deletes files on it's own and since NMM puts mods directly into the game folder it screws things up because now, FNIS has deleted some files that some mods were using. Another for example, unlike in MO, NMM does a direct overwrite when there are conflicting files, meaning the files from the prior mod would get deleted in order to place the files from the recent mod. This is very bad because this means the more mods i add the more the game breaks. In MO there is overwrites where you can control this. Nothing gets deleted in MO so the game doesn't break from too many broken mods and deleted files. FNIS works without a problem and i have somewhere around 12,000 animations installed.

 

TL;DR, NMM messes with the Data folder directly, MO does it virtually and keeps the entire modding away from the game itself.

[2dk2c.2]

I'm forced to have a conscience and not overwrite the ginormous mod

or grow a pair and let the pissant little mod, mod the biggie behemoth-mod.

THen I'll wonder tons later why stuff doesn't work. (and me with no memory to speak of)

See now this is why, I wonder that if you're all so fucking smart,

why there are three mod-organizers with different names that no one actually likes?

and why it's left up to the newbie to decide which mod overwrites what.

But reality being what it is, (what's the name again?) "Vortex" works OK.

Vortex actually remembers the conflicts, which isn't helpful but it doesn't hurt.

 

I get it, modders become 21 start drinking and marrying and new mod-organizers from different people are needed.

So thanks, whoever.

 

[Grey Cloud]

5 hours ago, Mr.Otaku said:

NMM in my experience used to give out when i added too many mods. For example, FNIS would absolutely not work with NMM, would always bring up major errors in the logs. I think it's because every time FNIS operates it adds and deletes files on it's own and since NMM puts mods directly into the game folder it screws things up because now, FNIS has deleted some files that some mods were using. Another for example, unlike in MO, NMM does a direct overwrite when there are conflicting files, meaning the files from the prior mod would get deleted in order to place the files from the recent mod. This is very bad because this means the more mods i add the more the game breaks. In MO there is overwrites where you can control this. Nothing gets deleted in MO so the game doesn't break from too many broken mods and deleted files. FNIS works without a problem and i have somewhere around 12,000 animations installed.

 

TL;DR, NMM messes with the Data folder directly, MO does it virtually and keeps the entire modding away from the game itself.

That is mostly, if not entirely, incorrect.

FNIS works with NMM without any problems.

NMM doesn't delete files that aren't meant ot be deleted.

FNIS does not delete files and in any case only deals with animation related files. I have 13.5k animations currently.

I currently have about 295 mods and 225 plug-ins and my game never breaks because of NMM nor has it ever.

The data folder is where data is supposed to go. There is nothing inherently wrong about putting files there. There is nothing inherently great about not putting files there.

All this talk of MO doing 'virtual' this or that is just hoodoo-voodoo nonsense, every file on your computer is virtual.

 

I'll be sticking with NMM until I have good reason to change. While Vortex remains in beta I wont even consider it.

[Mr. Otaku]

42 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

That is mostly, if not entirely, incorrect.

FNIS works with NMM without any problems.

NMM doesn't delete files that aren't meant ot be deleted.

FNIS does not delete files and in any case only deals with animation related files. I have 13.5k animations currently.

I currently have about 295 mods and 225 plug-ins and my game never breaks because of NMM nor has it ever.

The data folder is where data is supposed to go. There is nothing inherently wrong about putting files there. There is nothing inherently great about not putting files there.

All this talk of MO doing 'virtual' this or that is just hoodoo-voodoo nonsense, every file on your computer is virtual.

 

I'll be sticking with NMM until I have good reason to change. While Vortex remains in beta I wont even consider it.

Hey what you do is your business man, that's why i added the terms "in my experience" because for me NMM did very predictably give out once i crossed 170 mods or so. Every single time. From what i can tell from how NMM functions, when a mod asks if i wanna replace files it did exactly that, replace the files. So it deleted something in order to push in the new files. I don't know what or where but it surely did because i would always run into glitched out textures and a massive amounts of CTD's because of that. Especially the armor mods. For example, a patch for ayleids citadel adds special armors for the guards in that area, which also conflict with aMidianBorn's armor textures of the same variant. So depending on which i installed later NMM would practically replace the textures of the previous mod in order to apply the latter one. This resulted in both the citadel guards and the regular NPC's wearing that armor to have glitched out textures/missing certain textures followed by repeated CTD's.

 

It's good that NMM is doing you good but it clearly didn't do the same to me, hence why i had to spend frustrating hours learning MO and it did pay off. I can now see which files are conflicting and unlike NMM, like i said MO installs everything away from the game folder itself so in case i screw up, all i have to do is delete the Mod Organiser folder and the game goes back to vanilla, and i can start over again without having to reinstall the game itself because the Data folder is too crippled with mods flying everywhere.

 

Edit: This is excluding all the script mod issues i've had. Conflicting scripts, breaking animations in-game and so much more.

[Grey Cloud]

Thousands of people use NMM without experiencing the the problems you did.

Not being able to go above 170 mods suggests something fundamentally wrong with your game installation not NMM.

'Replace' does not mean delete the original.

32 minutes ago, Mr.Otaku said:

For example, a patch for ayleids citadel adds special armors for the guards in that area, which also conflict with aMidianBorn's armor textures of the same variant. So depending on which i installed later NMM would practically replace the textures of the previous mod in order to apply the latter one. This resulted in both the citadel guards and the regular NPC's wearing that armor to have glitched out textures/missing certain textures followed by repeated CTD's.

That suggests either a problem with the mod/patch or the way you install mods. Thousands of people use armour replacers without issues like that. You cannot have two mods replacing the same texture, only one texture will show in game and that will be the one from the mod which was allowed to overwrite by you.

 

32 minutes ago, Mr.Otaku said:

hence why i had to spend frustrating hours learning MO

Perhaps if you had spent the same with NMM you would not have had so many problems.

 

32 minutes ago, Mr.Otaku said:

Edit: This is excluding all the script mod issues i've had. Conflicting scripts, breaking animations in-game and so much more.

None of which have anything to do with NMM.

[Tinkering Solderbro]

Tried one week, reverted to latest github version and NMM after that.

 

converted nearly nothing from NMM

crashed very often

had problems with placing links and removing when uninstalling

had shown problems just to install mods

did not worked without persistent admin permissions

 

Yes NMM looked sometimes as abandoned while not ready programmed, but Vortex looked like put in public before Alpha Stage.

 

[Mr. Otaku]

21 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Thousands of people use NMM without experiencing the the problems you did.

Not being able to go above 170 mods suggests something fundamentally wrong with your game installation not NMM.

'Replace' does not mean delete the original.

That suggests either a problem with the mod/patch or the way you install mods. Thousands of people use armour replacers without issues like that. You cannot have two mods replacing the same texture, only one texture will show in game and that will be the one from the mod which was allowed to overwrite by you.

 

Perhaps if you had spent the same with NMM you would not have had so many problems.

 

None of which have anything to do with NMM.

That still doesn't invalidates all the issues i've had with NMM and how utterly unusable it proved to me. Hence why i added "In my experience" in my initial post which you seem to have missed twice now. NMM worked for thousands of people, but it didn't work for me. Why? I have no concrete answer as to why but from all the answers i've received from many different sources upon asking, they all seem to be aligning with what i've been experiencing in the game with NMM. I've used NMM for a year and a half in fact, i was introduced to modding with NMM with Fallout 4 which was even before i started to play Skyrim. MO has yet to give me the problems i've had with NMM so it's not like i didn't spent time trying to learn NMM, i've only been using MO for what, 7 months now?

 

Bottom line is, NMM failed me, MO didn't. That's t. If NMM works for you, good, very good. Maybe it was a problem with my game, maybe i did miss something in NMM in the year and a half i gave to it but it still doesn't change the fact that MO is working better for me. Just because NMM worked for thousands of people doesn't mean i'm one of them. Why do you think i made a switch in managers in the first place? Use whatever works for you, and i'll do the same.

[Grey Cloud]

17 minutes ago, Mr.Otaku said:

Hence why i added "In my experience" in my initial post which you seem to have missed twice now.

I haven't missed it on either occassion. You blaming NMM and NMM being to blame are not the same thing.

[Mr. Otaku]

16 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

I haven't missed it on either occassion. You blaming NMM and NMM being to blame are not the same thing.

You know what? Just drop it. You seem to be having trouble understanding that NMM did not work for me the way it worked for you and the thousand others. There are just as many if not more MO users who prefer it over NMM as well. We as people can make choices based on what works for us. That's all there is to it. I don't wanna start a flame war because we like different mod managers.

[bandygirl1]

There's nothing wrong with NMM. It gets the job done.

 

That said; It does have issues ( as does every manager ) two of the main being related to install orders. And it will never give you the control that MO does; In that arena, the two are not even remotely fucking equitable.

 

I made the switch to MO from NMM after 3+ years of modding Skyrim, gaining a decent knowledge of how to do so., and taking a look at what MO had to offer over it. I have never once regretted that decision.

 

 

As MO is giving me everything I want and then some, not to mention never having an issue with it, I see nothing about Vortex that inspires me to make a change.

[iJaVaFx]

[?????]

*Still using MO2* ~

[NoxOculis]

Nmm for me is enough! it prevents a dependency of another mod, a load order and I ask nothing else !!
I always install my mods, understanding what it does!
and always manually, I check all Bgsm, scripts, requierement, risk, and many other things !!
among others I modify them with fo4edit, to make compatible esp, I modify the nif with bodyslide, disassemble, regroup, change full of thing, we have many tools on Nexus
and that neither Vortex or Mo2 will see it !
And Nmm is not dead, always updated.
"Nmm Communauty Edition"0.70.7 updated yesterday !
In my opinion, this is the best way to learn, instead of a foolish AI

[Ankahet]

On 10/31/2018 at 1:37 PM, MadMansGun said:

from what i have seen it's a:

"useless piece of shit that does not do what it's fucking supposed to" - many user messages 2018.

"unusable trash" - even more user messages 2018.

"another reason to stay with mod organizer" - some users 2018.

 

i myself will be staying with manually installing everything.

Strange, works just fine for me. I havent had a single issue with it.

 

It definitely downloads larger files and faster than NMM did.

Its file warnings are pretty on point.

I use LOOT to manage my load order so I really dont need that feature.

It doesnt crash on me.

I dont have issues with the login token.

 

Im going to assume a lot of people downloaded it, a lot of people screwed up their settings and a lot of people dont actually read the help files to figure it out, thus their comments about how "bad" it is.

[steelmagpie]

My NMM just died, and now I grieve through a soul sucking ordeal of trying to get Vortex to do half of what I had NMM doing.

 

Pro's.. 

Very Pretty if you like pretty things..  (I don't unless it's my PC and NPC's in game)

It tries very hard to help you sort out issues. (It tries with a almost impossible to understand system for adjusting load orders and way too many pop up windows adding to the confusion.)

 

Cons.. 

Some stuff just doesn't work. (I have cut many good mods out simply because they either fail to initialise in game or just won't play nice anymore. )

Don't think your game will ever be as it was prior to using Vortex. (My current game is nicknamed  "Breezerim" as using alternate start I chose own breezehome as a starting place and now can't leave due to CTD or Load screen hangtime.)

 

After 8 hours of instalation and trying to get it working I am about 5 mins away from throwing the whole computer out of a fifth floor window. But I am not bitter..  Ok I am.. It was fine for Nexus to upgrade NMM to vortex but they could have or should have left NMM available for those that wanted it.

 

Tomorrow I will try again haha..   (Why did I break my NMM sobs )

[Slorm]

9 hours ago, steelmagpie said:

After 8 hours of instalation and trying to get it working I am about 5 mins away from throwing the whole computer out of a fifth floor window. But I am not bitter..  Ok I am.. It was fine for Nexus to upgrade NMM to vortex but they could have or should have left NMM available for those that wanted it.

 

Tomorrow I will try again haha..   (Why did I break my NMM sobs )

You can still get it here https://github.com/Nexus-Mods/Nexus-Mod-Manager/releases

[steelmagpie]

2 hours ago, Slorm said:

You can still get it here https://github.com/Nexus-Mods/Nexus-Mod-Manager/releases

oh you are a star of the highest magnitude...  many thanks indeed..

[deathparade]

NMM always worked for me lol
I never really used multiple profiles or anything, that and vortex was like i have no clue tf it was trying to even do.

[Clea Strange]

will never use Vortex hate it, I'll keep using MO2 that has never failed on me

[Jindale]

Never gonna touch it. Tannin achieved perfection with MO and level of control it gives.

[steelpanther24]

On 6/23/2019 at 8:40 AM, Jindale said:

Never gonna touch it. Tannin achieved perfection with MO and level of control it gives.

Tannin is one of the lead designers of Vortex. 

 

I have used Vortex now for a month, and while the support forums have a number of Vortex "white knights" (people who attack you if you dare criticize Vortex), it is not too complicated.  

 

HOWEVER, I strongly recommend that you only use Vortex to build an entirely new mod list, or mod a new game.  Do NOT try to convert from NMM to Vortex as it led to many many many issues.  If NMM works for you (or MO) keep using it, NMM is getting unofficial support.  

 

Also be sure to read how to really purge modded files.   They don't go away when you uninstall the game. 

 

BTW, Vortex does handle mod conflicts much better, showing me where I had three mods conflict.  It does keep track of your overrides so that you won't end up with a three way conflict that results in the mod (or mod asset) not working.     This has been one of the best features that make me go with Vortex. 

 

Again, if you have modded a game like Dragon Age (with the DAO Organizer or other mod manager) don't switch.   Vortex seems to have issues with older games (older than 2016 or so).   

[Vyxenne]

I switched to Vortex from NMM when I started a new playthrough about 4-5 months ago. So far it's been functionally almost perfect while at the same time a bit rough around the edges cosmetically. The only actual flaw* I have found was that Vortex truncated the mod names on the left side of the conflict-resolution dialog box, such that I could not tell which version of (mods) were conflicting with (other versions or mods on the right side of the same window.)

I reported the issue on the Vortex Support forum and it was fixed, and a new build released, within 24 hours. I don't think it gets any better than that.

 

* My definition of "flaw": a fault that adversely impacts or impairs the intended function of (whatever) as opposed to a purely annoying or cosmetic anomaly that has no impact on functionality.

[fred200]

I try to never comment on a topic Vyxenne posts on.

I bleed easy.

I will say I have helped a lot of folks on the Nexus support forum.

The only serious problems were people who tried importing mods from NMM. It is easy to really mess it up.

Start with a clean game directory. no manual mods or anything else.

Install the finicky bits like SKSE64.

Install a few mods using Vortex - see if you like it. The experience you gain will make adding more easier.

And there are people around to help if you do get stuck.

[Jindale]

4 hours ago, steelpanther24 said:

Spoiler

Tannin is one of the lead designers of Vortex. 

 

I have used Vortex now for a month, and while the support forums have a number of Vortex "white knights" (people who attack you if you dare criticize Vortex), it is not too complicated.  

 

HOWEVER, I strongly recommend that you only use Vortex to build an entirely new mod list, or mod a new game.  Do NOT try to convert from NMM to Vortex as it led to many many many issues.  If NMM works for you (or MO) keep using it, NMM is getting unofficial support.  

 

Also be sure to read how to really purge modded files.   They don't go away when you uninstall the game. 

 

BTW, Vortex does handle mod conflicts much better, showing me where I had three mods conflict.  It does keep track of your overrides so that you won't end up with a three way conflict that results in the mod (or mod asset) not working.     This has been one of the best features that make me go with Vortex. 

 

Again, if you have modded a game like Dragon Age (with the DAO Organizer or other mod manager) don't switch.   Vortex seems to have issues with older games (older than 2016 or so). 

 

Already said, never gonna touch it. In the past I've used NMM twice and ever since MO I have never looked back. With just a better internal conflict resolution, Vortex remains objectively inferior to MO.

 

Until Tannin makes Vortex to fundamentally function on the same level as MO, that is treating all files as loose files and making no permanent changes to the root, I will never, ever be switching off of MO.

 

Besides, I fail to see how does Vortex's conflict resolution offer a better ground when I can just follow the lightning bolt and simply drag-n-drop the resource. Ta-Da! Conflict resolved, it's like fucking magic.

[teitogun]

I kind of like it actually. Good for beginners and messy modders like me. Easy to use and manages file conflicts well. If you can get past the fact that it's a bit on the bloat end of software, give it a shot.