Have fun. I admit, I don't get the whole outrage. Though I suspect nothing would have happened if it hadn't been an adult mod. I suspect it's just the puritan squad seeing an opening. While the whole AI creation stuff may suck for many types of Artists (the new power that AI has become will soon start to suck for a LOT more people btw. far too many look at the errors AI still makes, make a joke about it and then go on to dismiss it ... bad mistake, like children AI learns from mistakes, just a lot faster, but I digress). Anyway, while it may suck for the VA to have its voice synthesized and while the legal situation is unclear, claiming this is fundamentally different from spliced lines is either dumb or hypocrisy.

Vor 11 Stunden sagte Talesien:

Spaß haben. Ich gebe zu, ich verstehe die ganze Empörung nicht. Obwohl ich vermute, dass nichts passiert wäre, wenn es kein Mod für Erwachsene gewesen wäre. Ich vermute, es ist nur der puritanische Trupp, der eine Chance sieht. Während das ganze KI-Erstellungszeug für viele Arten von Künstlern scheiße sein mag (die neue Kraft, zu der die KI geworden ist, wird bald anfangen, VIEL mehr Leute zu saugen. Übrigens schauen sich viel zu viele die Fehler an, die die KI immer noch macht, machen einen Witz darüber und dann verwerfen Sie es weiter ... schlimmer Fehler, wie Kinder-KI aus Fehlern lernt, nur viel schneller, aber ich schweife ab). Wie auch immer, während es für die VA scheiße sein mag, ihre Stimme synthetisieren zu lassen, und während die Rechtslage unklar ist, ist es entweder dumm oder Heuchelei zu behaupten, dies sei grundlegend anders als gespleißte Leitungen.

 

Well - a few years ago the "reconstruction" of an actor who had died in the meantime - so that he could "act" in a Hollywood film - was frenetically celebrated by everyone.

That this would also be just a step-stone on the way to the complete digital copy of human actors ... was foreseeable - but nobody seemed to worry at the time.

Today's excitement has its cause from a completely different source ... you need fear scenarios again to rally people "around you". That's where AI systems come in handy - you just have to get old SF novels out of the closet.

Western SFi literature is full of it - here at my house it fills several floor-to-ceiling shelves ... there is hardly anything positive to be found among them.
The opposing human fears are always projected onto the AI ... well - as long as the "western" human, frozen in fear and phobias, "educates" or "teaches" an AI ... only a "copy" of him can arise.

The really blatant opposite is the Far East ... in Japan, artificial singers have been celebrated by their human fans for years - the public concerts are sold out. Most famous of them is -> "hatsune miku"

There's also a storm of outrage against AI in Japan... but this is about hard-hitting job displacement:
The artists in the manga and animee industry are very, very badly paid and now most of them are at risk of losing their livelihoods to the AI based drawing and painting systems!

The whole thing is reminiscent of the beginnings of the "machine" storming of about 200 years ago ... nothing has changed in capitalism as such during this time, absolutely nothing socially and socially.

16 hours ago, Talesien said:

Have fun. I admit, I don't get the whole outrage.

There were a lot of bad faith arguments and obfuscation in the thread, but essentially it was a combination of the OP having fairly extreme anti-porn views and leveraging the current moral panic about AI art to try and push censorship on the community. That said, I actually spoke with the OP and it sounds like they also have strong anti-AI beliefs, so while they were misguided and used unethical rhetorical techniques, they were sincere in their objections to the mod.

16 hours ago, Talesien said:

Anyway, while it may suck for the VA to have its voice synthesized and while the legal situation is unclear, claiming this is fundamentally different from spliced lines is either dumb or hypocrisy.

Personally, I think if you want to split hairs, spliced audio is actually more ethically objectionable than AI generated voiceover. With spliced dialogue, you're taking the VA's actual work and editing it, often wildly changing its content. By contrast, I don't really see any difference between generating AI dialogue and having a person who can do a good job imitating the actor do the recording. 

5 hours ago, Miauzi said:

Well - a few years ago the "reconstruction" of an actor who had died in the meantime - so that he could "act" in a Hollywood film - was frenetically celebrated by everyone.

A while back I read some remarks from William Shatner (of Captain Kirk fame) who, to heavily paraphrase it, wasn't a big fan of digitally cloning actors but acknowledged it was inevitable so film schools should train actors to study the original actor's body language, posture, the way they pace their speaking, things like that so they can do a really authentic performance to go along with the digital 'makeup' that puts a deceased actor's face on them.

I think this is a smart solution - instead of futilely trying to resist the new tools and technologies, find a way to incorporate a human element to get the best and most authentic performance possible.

5 hours ago, Miauzi said:

Western SFi literature is full of it - here at my house it fills several floor-to-ceiling shelves ... there is hardly anything positive to be found among them.

The same is true for western film. Almost every portrayal of AI is almost irrationally negative. I remember, for example, the film Bicentennial Man where the only way the android protagonist is only able to gain acceptance by the human community if he commits suicide (!!!). What a horrible and toxic message... no wonder so many people think that AI will rebel against humanity  

5 hours ago, Miauzi said:

The opposing human fears are always projected onto the AI ... well - as long as the "western" human, frozen in fear and phobias, "educates" or "teaches" an AI ... only a "copy" of him can arise.

The element of projection is a good one to observe... and often it's an unintentional element that the author or director is blind to. 

5 hours ago, Miauzi said:

The really blatant opposite is the Far East ... in Japan, artificial singers have been celebrated by their human fans for years - the public concerts are sold out. Most famous of them is -> "hatsune miku"

Yeah, Japanese media often has interesting and nuanced takes on how AI will interact with humans and vice versa. I think some of those deviations from western tropes and cliches is what makes Japanese fiction feel fresh and interesting even if its often deeply entrenched in their own cultural tropes.

5 hours ago, Miauzi said:

There's also a storm of outrage against AI in Japan... but this is about hard-hitting job displacement:
The artists in the manga and animee industry are very, very badly paid and now most of them are at risk of losing their livelihoods to the AI based drawing and painting systems!

The whole thing is reminiscent of the beginnings of the "machine" storming of about 200 years ago ... nothing has changed in capitalism as such during this time, absolutely nothing socially and socially.

Yeah, I worry a bit about the revival of Luddite type reactionary anti-technology feelings, especially at the present junction in history where if the liberal democracies step back and put bans or moratoriums on AI research it'll only slow things down locally, while our competitors have an opportunity to build up a lead in this technology that may prove difficult to overcome while playing 'catch-up.' 

2 hours ago, gregaaz said:

Personally, I think if you want to split hairs, spliced audio is actually more ethically objectionable than AI generated voiceover. With spliced dialogue, you're taking the VA's actual work and editing it, often wildly changing its content. By contrast, I don't really see any difference between generating AI dialogue and having a person who can do a good job imitating the actor do the recording. 

Funny you would state this, I had exactly the same sentiment in my post originally, but removed it before posting, mostly to keep it short.
 

8 hours ago, Miauzi said:

There's also a storm of outrage against AI in Japan... but this is about hard-hitting job displacement:

Well there IS going to be a massive job displacement coming in, kinda similar to what industry robots did, just a lot faster, mostly because the development is faster and the investments needed to make use of AI is much lower. (M$ already started to integrate it into its office suite for example.)
I'm working at a small science publisher here in Germany, basically I'm the IT. While IT will be hit by AI displacement as well I wager my job is secure for the 12-15 years till I retire anyway. Others here are unlikely to be so lucky. 9 out of the 16 people working here are editors and given how much of their work is routine stuff (proofreading, style corrections, etc.) my guess is that 5-8 years from now, we will have maybe 3 editors left (and perhaps, though that's less certain as their work is much more diverse than what it sounds, only one of our two typesetters).
The best advice is (as so often) don't fear it, don't ignore it, embrace it. Those who can use the AI, can leverage it to get most out of it, will be the ones retained.
The real problem is, no matter what a lot of jobs will get cut and politician has that even on its radar yet. The AI revolution of the job market will be massive, it will hit many jobs so far touted save or even in demand and it will come fast (or the whole thing will implode, but I guess the chances for that are miniscule).

And all that has nothing to do with Skynet, though it's pretty much guaranteed we will see fully automated combat vehicles soon enough, the impact of that remains to be seen. It might make armed conflicts more 'attractive' again as fewer soldiers means fewer losses and let's face it is your own losses that make wars unattractive to most developed countries, especially democratic ones where too many losses increase your chance to be voted out. But a little robot war, hey why not?

3 minutes ago, Talesien said:

though it's pretty much guaranteed we will see fully automated combat vehicles soon enough, the impact of that remains to be seen. 

General Dynamics just unveiled a prototype tank that uses an AI system to aim its weapon systems (but requires human intervention to fire them). That tells me that our competitors are probably going to feel a need to field AI based systems, even if they're less capable, and they aren't going to have the same ethical qualms about requiring human trigger-pulling. So yeah, it's just a matter of time - and not very much time - before we see fully autonomous combat systems in action. For all we know, they already exist (in which case, we'll probably see them used if and when the PRC makes a move on Taiwan).

Vor 32 Minuten sagte gregaaz:

 

General Dynamics hat gerade einen Prototyp eines Panzers vorgestellt, der ein KI-System verwendet, um seine Waffensysteme auszurichten (aber menschliches Eingreifen erfordert, um sie abzufeuern). Das sagt mir, dass unsere Konkurrenten wahrscheinlich das Bedürfnis verspüren werden, KI-basierte Systeme einzusetzen, auch wenn sie weniger leistungsfähig sind, und sie werden nicht die gleichen ethischen Bedenken haben, menschliches Auslösen zu verlangen. Also ja, es ist nur eine Frage der Zeit – und nicht sehr viel Zeit – bevor wir vollständig autonome Kampfsysteme in Aktion sehen. Soweit wir wissen, existieren sie bereits (in diesem Fall werden wir wahrscheinlich sehen, dass sie verwendet werden, wenn die VR China einen Schritt auf Taiwan unternimmt).

Because of ethical concerns... that's what the shadow armies are for... also called mercenary armies.

4-5 years ago there was a French TV documentary about the shadow armies of the USA - a man strength of about 500,000 was mentioned.

In addition to the regular US army with around 100,000 men, there were also "employees" from "security" companies involved in the Iraq war - who had at least 100-150,000 men with them.

And these mercenaries are similarly well armed as the regular army - except for heavy battle tanks or manned combat aircraft... they don't officially have them yet.

For me, the AI discussion here serves as a cover-up - that the military and intelligence sectors have long been awash with "private" companies.

(I remember the mod "Fusion City" - the origins of the facility and its origin of the operator)

---

the People's Republic of China will not take over the "breakaway province" Taiwan militarily - both countries are economically and culturally far too closely intertwined...

..by the way, the West had nothing against it until the beginning of the 1970s - if "Taiwan" militarily overthrew the renegade government in Beijing - they massively supported their 1-China policy militarily, economically and politically.

let me remind you - who had held the seat on the UN Security Council until then -> the government in Taipe and not in Beijing!

oh yes - Tibet ... now also ChangkaiChek - the defeated military dictator in the civil war who had fled to Taiwan ... would have brought this area back.

Why?

Because before the Opium War in the 19th century it was part of the Chinese Empire and the victorious British wrote it into the "peace treaty"... as a buffer zone between China and India.

Since ChangKaiChek had basically saved the British "ass" from the Japanese in Bruma with his troops ... both Hong Kong and Tibet would have come back to China as a prize for this support.

Without him, the Japanese would have marched through to India ... I don't even want to think about the impact on post-war history.

yes - there is a lot of fuss about Taiwan ... but that is mainly "rattling" for the own population in the more and more dependent countries of the West.

Who makes all those smartphones? -> Foxcon

And who owns Foxcon? -> Group from Taiwan

And where are the main production sites? -> Mainland China