1 hour ago, mangalo said:

As for slavers, it's a bit difficult.  The way I see it is, Slave Agents aim to be the "drivers" of the slavery expansion.  In comparison with Slaverun, you would be sent to enslave other cities once you become a slave agent.  The issue with that is, what becomes a slave agent once every city is enslaved  ?  Would generic quests such as pleasing a jarl or transporting devices to another city be enough not to bore the player ?

 

I don't want to mix what a slaver and a slave agent do (in terms of scenario, at least).  I never really played the slaver route in Slaverun, did you have to go enslave bandits etc ? 

I can imagine a "Slaver" rank but I don't want to mix it with other rank tasks.  A slaver would be a parallel rank, allowing you to still play the game freely and catch bandits, but if you were to fall to slavery, I think I'd make the player start as a fresh slave (training etc) and not an adventurer slave.  It's easier to "program" it that way I think, and that's probably why Kenjoka did this too.

I'll add a blog entry to gather ideas on that.

     From your preliminary plans I had been under the assumption that completing your duties as a Slave Agent and enslaving all of the cities would have earned the player their "freedom" to be an Adventurer Slave? It seemed like a natural ending to the progression to me, anyway. Going from no freedom, to limited freedom being able to go out into Skyrim for limited times on agent tasks, to finally being allowed to roam again while still carrying the burdens of being a slave.

      At any rate, with the Slave Agent planned to be the portion where slavery expands, you would already be primed to do the slaver route in the same way Kenjoka did, if you so chose. Slavers didn't go around enslaving bandits, Slaverun actually didn't even have a real framework for enslaving people done. The slaver route in Slaverun Reloaded was basically just a dominant, male-focused version of the same city enslavement quests you'd get on the slave path, dealing mostly with the same NPCs but from a slaver's position - you bring shop owners sample slaves and "test" them with them instead of being the sample slave yourself, or you drug Maven Black-Briar to make her subservient rather than the whole thing where she gets the slave player gets locked in jail with an Argonian rapist, stuff like that. Various tasks where the slave player would get fucked instead has the slaver player doing the fuck. Naturally this route means you don't do all the stuff involving the player sticking out their neck for other slaves and such which I found unappealing for a lot of the same reasons you did.

      Now, possibly because of those particulars with the slave path, some people requested to Kenjoka to let female players go down the slaver route as well, which was initially conceived as just a tough dialogue option for female players that just sent you down these male-only quests, ignoring the fact that you're female. But Kenjoka also wanted to make a way for free woman players to get corrupted by the depravity going on in the world, with dialogue options and miscellaneous tasks that would add to a counter that could get you enslaved if you hit too many submission points. and added this element to the female slavers too.

    So this resulted in a new corruption angle, basically a way to have your cake and eat it, too - female slavers would start the path by acting dominant to the slavers at the Whiterun gates, joining the organization, avoiding all the quests about being trained, and receiving the quests to expand slavery a male player would get... but they could then elect to take the role of the slave in many of these quests or just accept sexual advances from the organization members, adding to their submission score each time. The player could also enable events where the female slaver is still subject to the nudity law or the regular reports to Bellamy despite being a slaver, with unique dialogue to fit, so the female slaver route had themes of wanting to be superior but still falling to her urges.

    But as I alluded to before, this angle was both never finished and was thematically inconsistent when actually played. And because the slaver questline was parallel to the slave questline, getting enslaved later down the road acted pretty weirdly with the intended slave plotline since the situation you got enslaved in is now completely different.

     So that was a long dump of text, but basically, I went into this whole suggestion operating from the same idea that a hypothetical Slaver questline here would also just be male-oriented versions of the Slave Agent quests, for those who like Slaverun's concept but want to play a male character, because not everyone plays a lady... but that would also then present the opportunity to create the fleshed-out fall of the female slaver plotline that the old mod never finished. Maybe it isn't your cup of tea, and your top priority is certainly to overhaul the slave side of the mod first, but one way or another I just wanted to bring it up for consideration while folks are passing around ideas for fleshing out parts that fell flat. I really saw a lot of potential there for dealing with the dilemma of having a believable scenario for the Dragonborn to get enslaved despite the kind of power we can wield, through corruption rather than through force.

1 hour ago, Mud said:

     From your preliminary plans I had been under the assumption that completing your duties as a Slave Agent and enslaving all of the cities would have earned the player their "freedom" to be an Adventurer Slave? It seemed like a natural ending to the progression to me, anyway. Going from no freedom, to limited freedom being able to go out into Skyrim for limited times on agent tasks, to finally being allowed to roam again while still carrying the burdens of being a slave.

 

      At any rate, with the Slave Agent planned to be the portion where slavery expands, you would already be primed to do the slaver route in the same way Kenjoka did, if you so chose. Slavers didn't go around enslaving bandits, Slaverun actually didn't even have a real framework for enslaving people done. The slaver route in Slaverun Reloaded was basically just a dominant, male-focused version of the same city enslavement quests you'd get on the slave path, dealing mostly with the same NPCs but from a slaver's position - you bring shop owners sample slaves and "test" them with them instead of being the sample slave yourself, or you drug Maven Black-Briar to make her subservient rather than the whole thing where she gets the slave player gets locked in jail with an Argonian rapist, stuff like that. Various tasks where the slave player would get fucked instead has the slaver player doing the fuck. Naturally this route means you don't do all the stuff involving the player sticking out their neck for other slaves and such which I found unappealing for a lot of the same reasons you did.

 

      Now, possibly because of those particulars with the slave path, some people requested to Kenjoka to let female players go down the slaver route as well, which was initially conceived as just a tough dialogue option for female players that just sent you down these male-only quests, ignoring the fact that you're female. But Kenjoka also wanted to make a way for free woman players to get corrupted by the depravity going on in the world, with dialogue options and miscellaneous tasks that would add to a counter that could get you enslaved if you hit too many submission points. and added this element to the female slavers too.

    So this resulted in a new corruption angle, basically a way to have your cake and eat it, too - female slavers would start the path by acting dominant to the slavers at the Whiterun gates, joining the organization, avoiding all the quests about being trained, and receiving the quests to expand slavery a male player would get... but they could then elect to take the role of the slave in many of these quests or just accept sexual advances from the organization members, adding to their submission score each time. The player could also enable events where the female slaver is still subject to the nudity law or the regular reports to Bellamy despite being a slaver, with unique dialogue to fit, so the female slaver route had themes of wanting to be superior but still falling to her urges.

    But as I alluded to before, this angle was both never finished and was thematically inconsistent when actually played. And because the slaver questline was parallel to the slave questline, getting enslaved later down the road acted pretty weirdly with the intended slave plotline since the situation you got enslaved in is now completely different.

 

     So that was a long dump of text, but basically, I went into this whole suggestion operating from the same idea that a hypothetical Slaver questline here would also just be male-oriented versions of the Slave Agent quests, for those who like Slaverun's concept but want to play a male character, because not everyone plays a lady... but that would also then present the opportunity to create the fleshed-out fall of the female slaver plotline that the old mod never finished. Maybe it isn't your cup of tea, and your top priority is certainly to overhaul the slave side of the mod first, but one way or another I just wanted to bring it up for consideration while folks are passing around ideas for fleshing out parts that fell flat. I really saw a lot of potential there for dealing with the dilemma of having a believable scenario for the Dragonborn to get enslaved despite the kind of power we can wield, through corruption rather than through force.

Yes, those are the conclusions I also came to.  I think Kenjoka really tried his best to give sense to the different paths but they ended up interfering and having inconsistencies.  Resolving them would have meant redesigning the whole thing, which was way too much work for so little result.  Which is why I think it's important to discuss those points as we are doing now.

I think one of the main flaws in Kenjoka's design was making the plot revolve around the player.  Giving it special treatment, consider it some kind of prodigy slave.  Because of that, being treated as a slave after being a slaver became really weird.  It was more of a linear quest than a system you evolve in.  To fix this, and allow such a caste system, all slaves should be considered the same way by the organization.  You won't drive the story anymore, you won't have special bonding with your captors, you'll be alone in a crowd of slaves only for you to decide your fate.

This brings us to what is a Slave Agent.  As you're just a slave, it makes sense that other slaves are slave agents and help the expansion.  This would, as in Slaverun, slowly enslave the cities by themselves.  However, by becoming a slave agent before the full expansion, you could take part in it.  Now, what happens once the story is over, and what is the difference with Adventurer Slaves ?

Adventurer and Agents are on the same "rank", meaning at one point, you chose to be one of them (They're both promotions from Maid Slave).  There's no real sense of progression Agent->Adventurer.  If, after having been a good maid, you're not really interested in the cities expansion, you could chose to become an Adventurer and let the other agents handle the expansion.  What happens to Slave Agents once the expansion is over is to be discussed, you could be sent to enslaved cities to perform task, or help in the training of new slaves when you're in Whiterun (a few ideas).

The way I see slavers :

- For males : A good way to make money

- For females : A good way to make money, with some risk

A Slaver would be some kind of mercenary, not being involved in the slavery but just make a living out of it.

As for the male slaves.  I understand that this is a good opportunity to design an inclusive mod, but I don't think it is a good idea.  It causes way to much trouble in term in coherence (story-wise, mechanics-wise, dialogues,...).  Misogyny is a solid foundation.  If you start to add male slaves, there's simply too much to take into account for the "same" result.  I'd say, do one thing and do it well.

For male characters wanting to participate in the expansion, I can see why they'd want such a role.  For now, I'll postpone my judgement on whether this should be done or not.  Not in the early to medium stages, at least.

As a male, you'd still benefit from having Slaverim installed : you could be a slaver without the bad consequences, and admire/use the slaves in the cities.

It's my turn for the apologies over the wall of text, but the main point is that I want to isolate the ranks and anonymize the player so that routes don't interfere.  That way, the player is involved and it keeps it a game rather than a quest like Slaverun was.  In any way, this is the kind of discussion/feedback I'm looking for as you seem to have a good vision of the whole thing.

You should let the shave head optionnal.

Also, you should think about the followers, even deteching them from the player by assigning them slaves tasks.

You also need to think about the slaves tasks. One thing dommageable in slaverun and nice in Slaves of Tamriel is all the slaves are occupied (and it should be : slaves are not free, you need to rentabilize them).

So, with sex slaves (where they'll work ? A commercial deal between slavers and the Bannered mare owner ?), think about farm, maids, mines...

Also, think about a martket (what is a slavers city whitout a slaves market ?).

The collossum was too large and buggy as hell... but a smaller pitfight could be nice.

2 minutes ago, Delzaron said:

You should let the shave head optionnal.

 

Also, you should think about the followers, even deteching them from the player by assigning them slaves tasks.

 

You also need to think about the slaves tasks. One thing dommageable in slaverun and nice in Slaves of Tamriel is all the slaves are occupied (and it should be : slaves are not free, you need to rentabilize them).

So, with sex slaves (where they'll work ? A commercial deal between slavers and the Bannered mare owner ?), think about farm, maids, mines...

Also, think about a martket (what is a slavers city whitout a slaves market ?).

 

The collossum was too large and buggy as hell... but a smaller pitfight could be nice.

Hmm, I guess the shaving could be made optional in the MCM.  I want to make it default during the initial slave training, though

Once your training is done, you're free to decide to let your hair grow.  However, you'll be rewarded if you ask to be shaved.

A perfect handling of followers would be difficult, but in the first releases I could simply dismiss them.  We'll see about handling them later on.

As for slave tasks, I suggest you take a look at the "Street Slut" and "Maid Slave" blog entries (link in the right banner of the blog).

Agree with the collossum.  If I were to create a pit, fighting could be one of the available tasks for a Street Slut.

Another thing : you need to take care of the other mods implying slavery, specially the on,es connected to Slavery market plus and cie.

For example, what will be the player stauts in your mod if she sold into slavery market to the dark arena ? If you mod consider her escaped the city because she was sold, it can create a problem... (like sending a bounty hunter in a place he should never go, like Ibn undercity, or Carnificina kitchen...).

Also, in your mod, cities will legalize slavery one par one... it is possible player arrives in your mod by being sold to slavery via slavery market ?

1 hour ago, Delzaron said:

Another thing : you need to take care of the other mods implying slavery, specially the on,es connected to Slavery market plus and cie.

For example, what will be the player stauts in your mod if she sold into slavery market to the dark arena ? If you mod consider her escaped the city because she was sold, it can create a problem... (like sending a bounty hunter in a place he should never go, like Ibn undercity, or Carnificina kitchen...).

 

Also, in your mod, cities will legalize slavery one par one... it is possible player arrives in your mod by being sold to slavery via slavery market ?

Yes, I intend to have an entry point for mods such as Simple Slavery.  You'd wake up in a jail under Dragonsreach where you would have your rank 0 training.

As for other mods, I'll try to keep the slave inside the city as much as possible (lowering the chance to be captured and resold to slavery).  I think Simple Slavery plus plus is sending modevents that I'd be able to catch to know when a slave has been sold somewhere else.

Obviously, I would discourage using multiple slavery mods in parallel.

This is looking really promising, because like you, I also think Slaverun Reloaded has some glaring flaws. I look forward to it.

Anyway, some crazy ideas I have:

• Introducing runaway slave quests (bounties) using the Radiant quest system?: Starting as a rank 2 slave or free female / male you can bring back runaway slaves. Either dead or alive. Alive is preferable (bigger reward). Once found, the slave(s) might be alive, dying or already dead. The slave(s) (if alive) might ask the PC to end their life/lives, and it's up to you to decide what to do (bring her/them in, heal and bring her/them in or kill her/them). Perhaps even more outcomes?
• What if free females don't roam the streets?: They stay locked in their homes (either by their husbands/fathers) or they voluntarily remain indoors. If they have to go outside they wear chastity belts, either of their own volition or because their fathers/husbands want them to remain unsullied. The chastity belt means "hands off". Conversely, any woman not wearing a chastity belt is considered a free sex slave (collared or not).
  • I know messing with the AI is not advisable, but it's just a crazy idea I have.
• Another crazy idea I have is something akin to Schindler's List where you can sabotage the slavers and/or protect/shelter select women from enslavement. You can of course abuse your position, considering they will do just about anything remain "free". This way you can potentially create your own harem of willing women.
  • You don't need to be a slaver to do this. And PC's sex doesn't matter either.

9 hours ago, Syntonic said:

This is looking really promising, because like you, I also think Slaverun Reloaded has some glaring flaws. I look forward to it.

 

Anyway, some crazy ideas I have:

• Introducing runaway slave quests (bounties) using the Radiant quest system?: Starting as a rank 2 slave or free female / male you can bring back runaway slaves. Either dead or alive. Alive is preferable (bigger reward). Once found, the slave(s) might be alive, dying or already dead. The slave(s) (if alive) might ask the PC to end their life/lives, and it's up to you to decide what to do (bring her/them in, heal and bring her/them in or kill her/them). Perhaps even more outcomes?
• What if free females don't roam the streets?: They stay locked in their homes (either by their husbands/fathers) or they voluntarily remain indoors. If they have to go outside they wear chastity belts, either of their own volition or because their fathers/husbands want them to remain unsullied. The chastity belt means "hands off". Conversely, any woman not wearing a chastity belt is considered a free sex slave (collared or not).
  • I know messing with the AI is not advisable, but it's just a crazy idea I have.
• Another crazy idea I have is something akin to Schindler's List where you can sabotage the slavers and/or protect/shelter select women from enslavement. You can of course abuse your position, considering they will do just about anything remain "free". This way you can potentially create your own harem of willing women.
  • You don't need to be a slaver to do this. And PC's sex doesn't matter either.

 

Well, bringing back escaped slaves could be a Slave Agent task.  My plan is to first make generic mechanics (tasks) and only then start doing quests with scenarios etc. 

As you said, tinkering with vanilla NPCs AI is not something I think I should do

On a side note, your comment reminds me of another "issue" that I have to solve which is the length of dialogue menus.  Multiple tasks suggest a lot of dialogue tree entries and I only see two solutions : 

• À la "SexLab Dialogues" : There is a [More Dialogues] entry that leads to a subtree.
• À la "Defeat", "Sexlab Survival" : A hotkey brings up a popup menu that initiate events.

I feel like talking to the NPCs is closer to a real approach but navigating the dialogue tree would be a mess (or maybe not).  Hotkeys aren't bad either but a bit colder approach and it's getting difficult finding a free key when you have many mods.

5 hours ago, mangalo said:

 

Well, bringing back escaped slaves could be a Slave Agent task.  My plan is to first make generic mechanics (tasks) and only then start doing quests with scenarios etc. 

As you said, tinkering with vanilla NPCs AI is not something I think I should do

 

On a side note, your comment reminds me of another "issue" that I have to solve which is the length of dialogue menus.  Multiple tasks suggest a lot of dialogue tree entries and I only see two solutions : 

• À la "SexLab Dialogues" : There is a [More Dialogues] entry that leads to a subtree.
• À la "Defeat", "Sexlab Survival" : A hotkey brings up a popup menu that initiate events.

 

I feel like talking to the NPCs is closer to a real approach but navigating the dialogue tree would be a mess (or maybe not).  Hotkeys aren't bad either but a bit colder approach and it's getting difficult finding a free key when you have many mods.

 

Hmm... I think something like a "bounty/quest board" (see figure) you see in other games/animes/other media. You just "interact" (action key) with the board and a popup menu shows up (no need for a hotkey). You could have one in every city and each city have unique quests/themes alongside more generic ones. And in my experience navigating the dialogue menus quickly becomes a hassle and cumbersome. I would prefer something snappier, even if it is more "cold" or more "mechanical".

Figure:

EDIT: Another thing: maybe add "cooldowns" to each task. What I mean is the slave can't just do the same task over and over each day. What do you think?

Good day!
 

In general, I like this ideas ... However, one moment makes me think.
 

Not everyone loves latex in DD. To be honest, there are a lot of people like me. I understand that there are many and opposite opinions. However, is it possible to simply insert a clause in the MCM that turns off or on latex and dresses at certain stages?

On 5/3/2021 at 1:55 PM, Syntonic said:

 

Hmm... I think something like a "bounty/quest board" (see figure) you see in other games/animes/other media. You just "interact" (action key) with the board and a popup menu shows up (no need for a hotkey). You could have one in every city and each city have unique quests/themes alongside more generic ones. And in my experience navigating the dialogue menus quickly becomes a hassle and cumbersome. I would prefer something snappier, even if it is more "cold" or more "mechanical".

 

Figure:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

EDIT: Another thing: maybe add "cooldowns" to each task. What I mean is the slave can't just do the same task over and over each day. What do you think?

The tech used for the UI in ORomance looks very interesting, might be a good compromise...

A clear risk I see with thease kind of mods are they become oversaturated with a fetish to the point that the whole world look all wierd. As such I suggest moderation and balance to keep the whole thing somewhat resonable.

First of I have no interest to play as a slave unless it is of a narrative reason like you start as a slave and then try to escape or you are NOT a slave but pretend to be in order to infiltrate a slaver organisation. Those that like me are fans of the comic character Modesty Blasie know that she have done exactly that on occation. Being a slave however is NOT a fetish of mine but I am all for mods for those that are into those things.

For slave outfits I do not get onboard with the idea of all slaves wearing the same. Deciding what a slave wear is the owners decision so if all slaves wear the same outfit you got a rent a slave system going on meaning that those maids are not owned by the households they work for. Sure thing the richest person in the Roman empire did indeed make his fortune by running a "rent a slave" operation but those tended to be labourers rented for projects like construction work.

There could be some legal requirement regarding attire thou but I would set the limit at the need for the slave to wear a collar showing that this person is a slave and information on who the owner is, or a registration number that can be looked up in some central registry. Thease collars could be anything from heavy iron collars made by a local blacksmith to the finest jewelry or just a tattoo in the neck containing the information required by the law. The nature of the collar is up to the owner.

Personally I am into the eye candy aspect and as such seeing things rather then being directly involved thou there could be some minor quests however.

For an amusing effect, imagine a "Repo man" parody where someone are trying to repossess a "rent a slave" that the leasing fee have not been paid for in time.

The non slave PC are mistaken for a runaway slave. Once the misunderstanding are cleared up the jarls guards decide to drop the "assault" fines resulted by the Dragonborn shouting the slave catchers into a bloody pulp.

A cute slavegirl with a lot of businesses sense are helping her financially strapped master out by lending him money from her personal "purchase her freedom" fund aquired from tip money. Yes, roman slaves could save up money of to buy their freedom. I guess that technically their owners would own those funds as well but that they had some form of honour system going on so that robbing your own slave was considered a bad thing.

There could be several ways to control a slave and besides drugs that are used for real in human trafficking there could be other ways. One such a way could be a cultural geas (rather then a magical one). The closest real world example of this what forces people to accept and stay in arranged marriages. So if your parents sold you to a slaver when financially strapped, running away or otherwise being disobedient could hurt them and you wouldn't do that would you? Yes this happens in the real world as well when people out right sell their daughters to brothels.

3 hours ago, sweforce said:

[...]

First of I have no interest to play as a slave unless it is of a narrative reason like you start as a slave and then try to escape or you are NOT a slave but pretend to be in order to infiltrate a slaver organisation. Those that like me are fans of the comic character Modesty Blasie know that she have done exactly that on occation. Being a slave however is NOT a fetish of mine but I am all for mods for those that are into those things.

[...]

Then this might be the wrong mod for you. ?

Anyway, I do like the scenario you bring up: that you could play as a woman that goes undercover. Either to destroy the organization or to find someone (e.g. enslaved sister?). It could allow for roleplay. I mean just how much abuse can the PC endure before being corrupted or how far she would be willing to go.

Pigeonholing the character is something Slaverun Reloaded is very good at (for better and worse). I wish in Slaverim the players could be allowed to roleplay more, allow us to invent their backstory and their motivations.

3 hours ago, sweforce said:

[...]

For slave outfits I do not get onboard with the idea of all slaves wearing the same. Deciding what a slave wear is the owners decision so if all slaves wear the same outfit you got a rent a slave system going on meaning that those maids are not owned by the households they work for.

[...]

I think street sluts should wear more or less the same thing. Some cheap iron collar and cuffs (reusing models from ZaZ?). But I do agree with House slaves, though. Whatever they wear should be up to its owner. E.g.: the richer the owner, the more extravagant the outfit? And perhaps, having ranks within the household as well? Ranging from (e.g.) cum dump tied in the basement to a servant slave, who can freely move around the house and perform chores. And be let outside to perform other set of chores (buy groceries?).

3 hours ago, sweforce said:

[...]

A cute slavegirl with a lot of businesses sense are helping her financially strapped master out by lending him money from her personal "purchase her freedom" fund aquired from tip money. Yes, roman slaves could save up money of to buy their freedom. I guess that technically their owners would own those funds as well but that they had some form of honour system going on so that robbing your own slave was considered a bad thing.

[...]

Hmm... IIRC you could purchase your freedom in Slaverun Reloaded. It was very expensive. And you could be sold through Simple Slavery too, if I'm not mistaken. I do like the idea of a house slave or adventure slave be able to purchase their freedom. Of course, there's nothing stopping the slave owners not to fuck over their "indentured servants", even if it is outlawed. I mean, who would society believe? Someone with good standing or a slave?

3 hours ago, sweforce said:

[...]

There could be several ways to control a slave and besides drugs that are used for real in human trafficking there could be other ways. One such a way could be a cultural geas (rather then a magical one). The closest real world example of this what forces people to accept and stay in arranged marriages. So if your parents sold you to a slaver when financially strapped, running away or otherwise being disobedient could hurt them and you wouldn't do that would you? Yes this happens in the real world as well when people out right sell their daughters to brothels.

I do like the idea of not just purely relying on drugs. Maybe have both (if applicable)? Perhaps the drugs makes the mind more malleable/less resistant to suggestion? Or perhaps it's more of an aphrodisiac? Anyway, it should be highly addictive.

Wait! I just had an idea, what if the slaver organization has  "convoys" of drugs being transported around Skyrim (like how POWs are being transported in vanilla) that you as an escaped slave could attack and claim the "treasure" for yourself?

Some of the ideas like the slavegirl lending her master money was ment for the humorus effect of her taking control of the situation. I assume that if her owner ever punish her it be kn the form of some light spanking that she just find arousing.

I just dropped a comment in the thread of another slavemod more in line with what I could choose to install myself but I think the ideas there would be applicable in this mod as well. I suggest you check it out, is a bit of lore suggestion for mainly dunmer slavegirls.

Ouch the link didn't go to my post but it is at the bottom.

I thought some more about how the drugs came to be:

It was invented by the Thalmor. It was supposed to be something of a truth serum. They wanted to use it on their POWs, to force them to give up their comrades. And it was highly effective. Perhaps too effective. And then some bigwig Thalmor had the "brilliant" idea to use it on his prisoners in order to create a harem. The Thalmor was at first repulsed by the idea, but they quickly realized they could use this in order to create instability in the countries they aim to take over. Have the country, and its defenders, grow lazy and lustful over generations and bide their time. High Elves live for a very long time. Or something like that.

And because of that, it isn't some Daedric influence that takes over people's minds. No, it's just greed, lust and misogyny. And they are much harder to fight.

And another thought I had was:

Unlike how the sex slave training is done in Slaverun Reloaded I think it should be away from prying eyes (and not outside of Whiterun, in plain view). It should be more like a concentration/re-education camp, and you're not the only one being trained. I think many men would object if they could actually see how the "sausage" is made.

6 hours ago, sweforce said:

A clear risk I see with thease kind of mods are they become oversaturated with a fetish to the point that the whole world look all wierd. As such I suggest moderation and balance to keep the whole thing somewhat resonable.

 

First of I have no interest to play as a slave unless it is of a narrative reason like you start as a slave and then try to escape or you are NOT a slave but pretend to be in order to infiltrate a slaver organisation. Those that like me are fans of the comic character Modesty Blasie know that she have done exactly that on occation. Being a slave however is NOT a fetish of mine but I am all for mods for those that are into those things.

 

For slave outfits I do not get onboard with the idea of all slaves wearing the same. Deciding what a slave wear is the owners decision so if all slaves wear the same outfit you got a rent a slave system going on meaning that those maids are not owned by the households they work for. Sure thing the richest person in the Roman empire did indeed make his fortune by running a "rent a slave" operation but those tended to be labourers rented for projects like construction work.

There could be some legal requirement regarding attire thou but I would set the limit at the need for the slave to wear a collar showing that this person is a slave and information on who the owner is, or a registration number that can be looked up in some central registry. Thease collars could be anything from heavy iron collars made by a local blacksmith to the finest jewelry or just a tattoo in the neck containing the information required by the law. The nature of the collar is up to the owner.

 

Personally I am into the eye candy aspect and as such seeing things rather then being directly involved thou there could be some minor quests however.

 

For an amusing effect, imagine a "Repo man" parody where someone are trying to repossess a "rent a slave" that the leasing fee have not been paid for in time.

 

The non slave PC are mistaken for a runaway slave. Once the misunderstanding are cleared up the jarls guards decide to drop the "assault" fines resulted by the Dragonborn shouting the slave catchers into a bloody pulp.

 

A cute slavegirl with a lot of businesses sense are helping her financially strapped master out by lending him money from her personal "purchase her freedom" fund aquired from tip money. Yes, roman slaves could save up money of to buy their freedom. I guess that technically their owners would own those funds as well but that they had some form of honour system going on so that robbing your own slave was considered a bad thing.

 

There could be several ways to control a slave and besides drugs that are used for real in human trafficking there could be other ways. One such a way could be a cultural geas (rather then a magical one). The closest real world example of this what forces people to accept and stay in arranged marriages. So if your parents sold you to a slaver when financially strapped, running away or otherwise being disobedient could hurt them and you wouldn't do that would you? Yes this happens in the real world as well when people out right sell their daughters to brothels.

Drugs aren't really a fetish of mine either, so my intention isn't to go overboard with them.  Magic was, to this point, the only generic and believable alternative I found to drugs when it comes to force the player to submit.  Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad way of doing things, but I find it boring and it has some flaws.  Some people play as god-wizard and others as magic-immune characters, having a spell turn them into a total slut is ... kind of weird.  Having magic enforced on you supposes a very powerful character with that sort of power.  Anyway, a bit too easy to me, I want the player to have a choice to submit.

About the outfits, we'll have to agree to disagree.  I see slaves as manufactured goods by the slavery setting, deprived of any customization.  They obey to their master but first of all to the organization that enforces slavery.  The only customization I'm in favor of are additional devices / tats / piercings /... 

Families and social threats are a big no-no for me, it breaks the narrative of many players character.  I don't care if the player is a dragonborn, a noble, a miner, has a family or not.  Everyone gets the same treatment, their backstory is irrelevant.

In short, you have your own vision of slavery, and that is absolutely fine, but it is too different from what I intend to do.

1 hour ago, Syntonic said:

I thought some more about how the drugs came to be:

It was invented by the Thalmor. It was supposed to be something of a truth serum. They wanted to use it on their POWs, to force them to give up their comrades. And it was highly effective. Perhaps too effective. And then some bigwig Thalmor had the "brilliant" idea to use it on his prisoners in order to create a harem. The Thalmor was at first repulsed by the idea, but they quickly realized they could use this in order to create instability in the countries they aim to take over. Have the country, and its defenders, grow lazy and lustful over generations and bide their time. High Elves live for a very long time. Or something like that.

 

And because of that, it isn't some Daedric influence that takes over people's minds. No, it's just greed, lust and misogyny. And they are much harder to fight.

 

And another thought I had was:

Unlike how the sex slave training is done in Slaverun Reloaded I think it should be away from prying eyes (and not outside of Whiterun, in plain view). It should be more like a concentration/re-education camp, and you're not the only one being trained. I think many men would object if they could actually see how the "sausage" is made.

You might not find it very original but I liked the Slaverun approach of training you in a dungeon.  The Slaverun one was too small, however, and allowed you to exit it whenever you wanted.  I'm trying to design an larger underground (under Dragonsreach) training ground with no way to escape.

The drug idea is not bad.  I need a supplier, so, why not Thalmor (a bit overused but credible).  In the far future, I'd like to design a quest for non-enslaved players to sabotage the supply and free Skyrim from slavery.  There would be a bad way to the quest in which you end up enslaved, of course

In the lore skooma was invented by the dunmer as a means to control slaves with an addiction. Skooma are essentially moonsugar mixed with alcohol. I remember that a few years ago there was a prescription free painkiller that had to be banned since teens mixed it with whatever booze they could get their hands on to boost the effect.

On 5/9/2021 at 11:11 PM, mangalo said:

The drug idea is not bad.  I need a supplier, so, why not Thalmor (a bit overused but credible).  In the far future, I'd like to design a quest for non-enslaved players to sabotage the supply and free Skyrim from slavery.  There would be a bad way to the quest in which you end up enslaved, of course

 

I was thinking more along the lines of Thalmor invented the drug/concoction and then leaked it (through their agents) to greedy (useful) idiots (with influence/money) within the countries they want to destabilize. And that way the Thalmor can just claim the designs were stolen or whatever. They're taking a hands-off approach. Giving the countries the means to unknowingly weaken themselves over time. And after enough time has passed, then the Thalmor just swoops in and conquers the countries.

EDIT: The swooping part is decades away, of course. And probably not covered by this mod?

Would you go with the same approach with scenes as in the original or you intent to cut their quantity? Since they are the buggiest aspect of the original mod that almost always cause problems and necessities to reload/disable them in MCM.

On 5/10/2021 at 12:00 AM, sweforce said:

In the lore skooma was invented by the dunmer as a means to control slaves with an addiction. Skooma are essentially moonsugar mixed with alcohol. I remember that a few years ago there was a prescription free painkiller that had to be banned since teens mixed it with whatever booze they could get their hands on to boost the effect.

House dress, no ?

11 hours ago, Delzaron said:

House dress, no ?

House Dres was massively involved in slavery in  Morrowind yes. I am unsure if they invented skooma but the probably used it s lot. While other houses and even East Empire Company used slaves Dres was renowned for their cruelty. Playing Morrowind I noted that most of Dres slaves where of the beast races and that is mostly seen in the hidden slave pens operated by criminals. While this doesn't prove anything it does hint that House Dres may have been a driving factor in smuggling slaves into Morrowind. Since slavery are at the time banned everywhere else in the Empire this mean slave raids to abduct people. No wonder the Argonians where pissed of enough to invade Morrowind once the Oblivion crisis had weakened them. I doubt the Argonia would have cared if the Dunmer would have just enslaved their own people.

Could a PC slave who has proven her devotion to the slavers be allowed to root out non-conforming women (like infiltrating anti-slavery movements?), much like how the Thalmor wants to root out Talos worshippers? It could be something like a radiant quest, where you could earn their trust (speech skill) or through burglary or whatever? Maybe that could be a way to earn  "credit" with the slavers? By doing this you might be given something in return.

3 hours ago, Syntonic said:

Could a PC slave who has proven her devotion to the slavers be allowed to root out non-conforming women (like infiltrating anti-slavery movements?), much like how the Thalmor wants to root out Talos worshippers? It could be something like a radiant quest, where you could earn their trust (speech skill) or through burglary or whatever? Maybe that could be a way to earn  "credit" with the slavers? By doing this you might be given something in return.

To be honest it all depends on if there is a storyline and what it would be.  Your idea could fall into the Slave Agent tasks, but we're really talking about endgame content here, so we'll see what we can do when the time comes

2 hours ago, mangalo said:

 

To be honest it all depends on if there is a storyline and what it would be.  Your idea could fall into the Slave Agent tasks, but we're really talking about endgame content here, so we'll see what we can do when the time comes

Yeah, I wanted to post my comment in the Slave Agent blog page, but it's only leading me to a 404 error. And like you said, this is endgame content. Only available once you rise up through the ranks. 

You already have my love for doing that.

I have to say, that Slaverun is one of the mods, that is really worth it to play. So i am excited to see a mod like it, but maintained and expanded.

I am not a programmer, so i applaud the development of a new version of this kind of mod.

Though, for me i would love to see more avenues in how a slave would live. The premise is of course disturbing in it self but its quite fun to play.  At the moment i can not think of things i would want or wish. Though the slave training is one thing that could be expanded. Also, where will you end up. Will you auctioned? Will you be given to someone. Will the owner alter your looks? So many options.

Like i said, you have my love for doing this. Its fun to play just with no story. But there was always something missing for me. For example enslavement continued has the option that you get a master. But this was very loose as the master did not much with you.

At least not in my plays.
I would love to see, that your master gives you food and water. Or put you on a semen diet.

Well, i do not want to delve to much in my fantasy right now. But i am looking forward to this mod.

I really applaud everyone who knows how to invest time to make mods like that happen. I am just to stupid to understand even CK.

Cheers.