Four-Play WIP Discussion (was SexTec)

[Lurker001]

 

 

They are doing something for free and then have to deal with heaps of attitude and pressure to do better despite the fact that there is no tangible reward, and you don't see that as a shitty way to treat someone?

 

What you are suggesting only works if you offer them incentive, and not just shit on them.

 

If I am making something for you and you are treating me like shit as payment... I'm more likely to say "Screw you" and not give you anything at all... and that would be totally fair of me to do so. In fact, because of this entitled attitude among people, many artists are starting to have to do that more and more. If someone offers something you value, pay them what it is worth. If they are putting effort into something you value, encourage them... don't belittle them.

 

How is this NOT common sense to people?

 

 

What you are suggesting is that nobody can express an opinion about how a project is going on the basis that the author isn't getting paid.

 

That gives open source work a bad name. It sends the message that free, open source projects can't be expected to be as high quality or well run as their professional counterparts.

 

However, that isn't true. There are open source projects that are as high quality and well run as any for-profit business. There are free mods on this site that are run better than many pay-software projects. It serves nobody well to try and shut down critical assessments of any software. For free or for profit.

 

And again, wanting someones work is not "shitting on" or "belittling" them as you suggest. It is the opposite. Assuming that the point of the author doing the work for free is to provide people with something of value, expressions of wanting the work IS encouragement.

 

 

No... what I am suggesting is to not be so shitty to people doing you a favor. Simple.

 

Not YOU specifically, but as a general rule of thumb... and yes, people do shit on or belittle people on here. I'll admit that it's not as bad as other forums I've seen, but it still happens.

[pipdude]

 

No... what I am suggesting is to not be so shitty to people doing you a favor. Simple.

 

Not YOU specifically, but as a general rule of thumb... and yes, people do shit on or belittle people on here. I'll admit that it's not as bad as other forums I've seen, but it still happens.

 

A favor is something that is requested/wanted. What those people do only becomes a favor when it is requested/wanted. Which is what the people you are criticizing are expressing. They want something and the author wants to deliver it. The motivations are in alignment. That's why the SKSE team apologized for getting hopes up rather than complain about pressure.

 

I can agree that people aren't always diplomatic. But, this is the internet.

 

I don't like to see members get dog-piled here over something that was really harmless in the end.

[sololeocr]

Thanks for the hard work, yesterday I installed these mods and started a new game,plus with "Deviously Cursed Wasteland" it's really nice re-start playing this game, I hope in the future these devices can work with "four play"'s mods, for example is somebody looks my character with a slave collar can take her without ask, like Skyrim.

 

Also will be nice these mods works with MCM for Fallout 4, that will improve a lot the adjust settings without use the console.

 

I really appreciate the hard work.  

[DocClox]

Aaaand... F4SE 0.3.1 is out!

 

Lots of cool stuff in this, but in particular I can convert Var arrays to Vars and back which is going to help greatly.

[Midnight19]

Aaaand... F4SE 0.3.1 is out!

 

Lots of cool stuff in this, but in particular I can convert Var arrays to Vars and back which is going to help greatly.

Nice! now i will need to wait for Place everywhere and Looks menu to get Updated.

[VonHelton]

 

Aaaand... F4SE 0.3.1 is out!

 

Lots of cool stuff in this, but in particular I can convert Var arrays to Vars and back which is going to help greatly.

Nice! now i will need to wait for Place everywhere and Looks menu to get Updated.

 

 

I'm leaving them messages as we speak......lol.

 

:D :D

[Haviengar]

I think the feature I am praying for most is the ability to choose to keep parts of clothing on during sex like hats, shoes, tops etc. Here's keeping all appendages crossed.

[DocClox]

I think the feature I am praying for most is the ability to choose to keep parts of clothing on during sex like hats, shoes, tops etc. Here's keeping all appendages crossed.

Specifying items not to be removed is already doable. Letting the user specify slots not to be stripped is harder, mainly because I need a sane way to allow the user to input which slots they want to protect. And I don't really want to have to create 31 terminal menu entries by hand because the CK interface for terminals is slow and clunky horrible.

 

I wonder if I can cut and paste entries in Fo4Edit...

[Haviengar]

I guess this is where an MCM would be useful?

[Darkening Demise]

So autonomy had a fun time with Piper again. I fixed her AI but this.....

[VonHelton]

Hmmmmmm........I wonder if an MCM can even be done? The way we communicate in Fallout 4 is totally different than in Skyrim. In Skyrim, we can have as many choices we want in a given dialogue, but in Fallout 4, we are limited to 4 choices no matter what we do.

 

:( :( :(

 

 

 

[Sl1xx]

Uh first poste on Loverslab

 

maybe working with this mod?

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1235/?

[pipdude]

I guess this is where an MCM would be useful?

 

Hmmmmmm........I wonder if an MCM can even be done? The way we communicate in Fallout 4 is totally different than in Skyrim. In Skyrim, we can have as many choices we want in a given dialogue, but in Fallout 4, we are limited to 4 choices no matter what we do.

 

:( :( :(

 

An MCM system would be separate from dialogue matters, right?

 

Now that we have Scaleform access, an MCM should be doable.

 

In my opinion, MCM was problematic. I think that mods using their own .ini for settings would be better. Then your settings would survive restarts without having to re-do everything. And settings could be shared. IMO, there are few cases where settings really need to be made live in-game.

[DocClox]

In my opinion, MCM was problematic. I think that mods using their own .ini for settings would be better. Then your settings would survive restarts without having to re-do everything. And settings could be shared. IMO, there are few cases where settings really need to be made live in-game.

Well, that's the other option I've been considering. A 31 slot toggle menu using terminals is a pain (I had a go last night...). It would be easier in MCM, but a lot easier with a config file.

 

And we could do things like specify filenames and formids for things like preferred strapons, nude suits, etc.

[pipdude]

 

In my opinion, MCM was problematic. I think that mods using their own .ini for settings would be better. Then your settings would survive restarts without having to re-do everything. And settings could be shared. IMO, there are few cases where settings really need to be made live in-game.

Well, that's the other option I've been considering. A 31 slot toggle menu using terminals is a pain (I had a go last night...). It would be easier in MCM, but a lot easier with a config file.

 

And we could do things like specify filenames and formids for things like preferred strapons, nude suits, etc.

 

 

My vote is to just do that, 100%.

 

I think that if people get used to that approach, they won't want to go back to the old MCM arrangement.

 

Most modders are already familiar with editing the game ini files.

[mudhutwarrior]

I don't post much but have to say thank you guys for all the hard work. F4SE just got  to it so things should pick up the pace.  I am not to fond of the complainers though because like most people in society they blame the first target and not the man behind the curtain.  In my view Bethesda has done every underhanded thing they could to mess up the modding community. It pretty obvious if one takes a long view.  That so many still pushed on considering what Beth did to divide and conquer is a testament to  individual innovation.

 

Again thanks for all the hard work with scant reward.

[Grine]

 

In my opinion, MCM was problematic. I think that mods using their own .ini for settings would be better. Then your settings would survive restarts without having to re-do everything. And settings could be shared. IMO, there are few cases where settings really need to be made live in-game.

Well, that's the other option I've been considering. A 31 slot toggle menu using terminals is a pain (I had a go last night...). It would be easier in MCM, but a lot easier with a config file.

 

And we could do things like specify filenames and formids for things like preferred strapons, nude suits, etc.

 

 

Hi Doc,

 

Is it possible for Four Play to detect through tagging or something similar what kind of sex animation is playing? I ask because if you are able to tag these animations then perhaps you could also force FO4 to display an image in the corner similar to quests. If this is indeed possible then perhaps we can recreate something close to Shadman's Vault Meat art pieces when a certain animation type plays.

 

Through the assets I provided here it is entire possible to customize different images to fit the player status during Four-Play.

Using Anal Image for Anal animation as an example:

 

Stage Start

 

 

You Raise Your Ass for a Pounding!

 

 

Stage In Progress

 

 

Your Ass is Being Battered!

 

 

Stage End

 

 

You Relish in Anal Pleasure!

 

 

If this is possible to accomplish then I can continue to make similar customized images from the assets to whatever you need.

[Chosen Clue]

 

 

In my opinion, MCM was problematic. I think that mods using their own .ini for settings would be better. Then your settings would survive restarts without having to re-do everything. And settings could be shared. IMO, there are few cases where settings really need to be made live in-game.

Well, that's the other option I've been considering. A 31 slot toggle menu using terminals is a pain (I had a go last night...). It would be easier in MCM, but a lot easier with a config file.

 

And we could do things like specify filenames and formids for things like preferred strapons, nude suits, etc.

 

 

My vote is to just do that, 100%.

 

I think that if people get used to that approach, they won't want to go back to the old MCM arrangement.

 

Most modders are already familiar with editing the game ini files.

 

 

I think your issue with MCM is not directed at the right problem.

 

MCM can be set up to always write to an INI file with every option via JsonUtil in PapyrusUtil. It's just that modders making MCM mods in Skyrim didn't bother to do that, or just didn't know that PapyrusUtil even exists. Hell, I'd say most of the people that use it to it's full advantage are people here, like with the mods Sexlab Defeat and Sexlab itself, as well as pretty much every mod that allows you to import and export configuration data. (except Schlongs of Skyrim, that uses it's own export import method)

 

From what I understand, you are fine with having the mod just come with an INI file that can have options and change those options. The downside to that is that you need to do a game restart every time you want to make changes and see how that affects the game.

 

While that setup is friendly towards PC power-users, other modders who just drag and drop required files and run the game aren't that familiar with doing things like that most of the time, or don't want to be bothered doing that when they want to change options in a mod.

 

MCM is 100% fine, it's just the way that mod makers have set it up in the past only had it saved on the save game via script variables, when it also could have been saved in an INI.

 

---

 

Now, the major issue here is that FO4 doesn't really have a fully functional MCM like Skyrim has. So temporarily going with user modified INIs will not only make it easier for making 4P, but I think will be better than forcing a user to go through terminal prompt after terminal prompt to set up the mod.

 

BUT, IIRC, there are no Papyrus script functions that allow you to read and write data from a file. Specific mods were made for Skyrim, like the aforementioned PapyrusUtil, but I do not know if there exists such a mod for FO4 yet. And if it does, then you can bet your ass it uses F4SE.

 

So if there isn't a built in method in FO4 to read and write files, and there isn't a mod for FO4 that does that yet, then unfortunately you'll have to do what I've done, and set up a shitton of messages to handle menus, or do it via terminal, which is also an asshole to set up.

[Chosen Clue]

Hmmmmmm........I wonder if an MCM can even be done? The way we communicate in Fallout 4 is totally different than in Skyrim. In Skyrim, we can have as many choices we want in a given dialogue, but in Fallout 4, we are limited to 4 choices no matter what we do.

 

:( :( :(

 

No offense, but after seeing some of the posts you've made in the thread, I don't think you understand how some of the modding is done for these games.

 

Skyrim and Fallout 4 both use Adobe Flash technology to display their menus. Flash is that engine that used to play most of the videos and interactive content on the internet, but it's old now.

 

The original MCM was packed in with SkyUI, a menu replacement mod. SkyUI replaced most of Skyrim's Flash files, or .swf files, that are the menus in Skyrim.

 

Fallout 4 is similar, and uses the same kinds of files. When you pause Fallout 4, the Pause menu comes up. It's possible to replace that menu with a similar one that has an added extra option that can lead to an MCM. I think that's how SkyUI did it as well.

 

Now, for an MCM menu to work, it'd also need the ability for Papyrus scripts to interact with UI menus. And guess what that means?

 

Yup, a script extender will be needed to interact with menus via scripts. Sucks I know, but what can ya do, we're still very early in F4SE, even if it's been roughly 1 and a half years after release. But SKSE was also not made overnight, and F4SE team has been buggered down by the release of Skyrim "Special" Edition in the name of "learning to make F4SE better by trying to port SKSE into a 64-bit version of the Creation Engine". It's either "We'll get there" or never, which would suck.

 

and HEY WHAT WOULD YA KNOW, the latest F4SE allows for UI interactions with scripts. Cool stuff, now to wait for someone like schlangster to come around and make F4UI.

 

Sorry if I came off mean VonHelton, I only want to inform.

[VonHelton]

 

Hmmmmmm........I wonder if an MCM can even be done? The way we communicate in Fallout 4 is totally different than in Skyrim. In Skyrim, we can have as many choices we want in a given dialogue, but in Fallout 4, we are limited to 4 choices no matter what we do.

 

:( :( :(

 

No offense, but after seeing some of the posts you've made in the thread, I don't think you understand how some of the modding is done for these games.

 

Skyrim and Fallout 4 both use Adobe Flash technology to display their menus. Flash is that engine that used to play most of the videos and interactive content on the internet, but it's old now.

 

The original MCM was packed in with SkyUI, a menu replacement mod. SkyUI replaced most of Skyrim's Flash files, or .swf files, that are the menus in Skyrim.

 

Fallout 4 is similar, and uses the same kinds of files. When you pause Fallout 4, the Pause menu comes up. It's possible to replace that menu with a similar one that has an added extra option that can lead to an MCM. I think that's how SkyUI did it as well.

 

Now, for an MCM menu to work, it'd also need the ability for Papyrus scripts to interact with UI menus. And guess what that means?

 

Yup, a script extender will be needed to interact with menus via scripts. Sucks I know, but what can ya do, we're still very early in F4SE, even if it's been roughly 1 and a half years after release. But SKSE was also not made overnight, and F4SE team has been buggered down by the release of Skyrim "Special" Edition in the name of "learning to make F4SE better by trying to port SKSE into a 64-bit version of the Creation Engine". It's either "We'll get there" or never, which would suck.

 

and HEY WHAT WOULD YA KNOW, the latest F4SE allows for UI interactions with scripts. Cool stuff, now to wait for someone like schlangster to come around and make F4UI.

 

Sorry if I came off mean VonHelton, I only want to inform.

 

 

Thanks for explaining things I already knew........lol.

 

If you can't clearly see that the dialogue in Fallout 4 is different from Skyrim then I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

 

As for my cred, well, I've been gaming since PONG, and modding since Wolfenstein 3D.

 

So yer probably right.......I couldn't possibly know what I'm talking about.

 

:) :)

 

I guess this is where an MCM would be useful?

 

Hmmmmmm........I wonder if an MCM can even be done? The way we communicate in Fallout 4 is totally different than in Skyrim. In Skyrim, we can have as many choices we want in a given dialogue, but in Fallout 4, we are limited to 4 choices no matter what we do.

 

:( :( :(

 

An MCM system would be separate from dialogue matters, right?

 

Now that we have Scaleform access, an MCM should be doable.

 

In my opinion, MCM was problematic. I think that mods using their own .ini for settings would be better. Then your settings would survive restarts without having to re-do everything. And settings could be shared. IMO, there are few cases where settings really need to be made live in-game.

 

 

Well TECHNICALLY, the .45ACP is the original point & click interface anyways, so.....

 

:P :P

 

Typically grognards are the ones who fiddle with INI files, lay-people want point & click.

 

 

 

[Chosen Clue]

 

 

No offense, but...

 

 

Thanks for explaining things I already knew........lol.

 

If you can't clearly see that the dialogue in Fallout 4 is different from Skyrim then I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

 

As for my cred, well, I've been gaming since PONG, and modding since Wolfenstein 3D.

 

So yer probably right.......I couldn't possibly know what I'm talking about.

 

 

You don't seem to understand the point of my post. Which is to say, the dialogue in Fallout 4 being restricted has nothing to do with whether or not an MCM could exist.

 

If you already knew the information I posted, then you shouldn't have made:

 

Hmmmmmm........I wonder if an MCM can even be done? The way we communicate in Fallout 4 is totally different than in Skyrim. In Skyrim, we can have as many choices we want in a given dialogue, but in Fallout 4, we are limited to 4 choices no matter what we do.

 

:( :( :(

 

THIS post. Which is to say that, if you knew what you were talking about in the first place when it comes to creating an MCM, you wouldn't have needed to mention the dialogue choices in the first place, as they have nothing to do with the MCM.

 

------

 

Back on topic, what are you planning on doing DocClox? Do you think creating a F4SE DLL that lets you read and write files is the approach you'll take? I haven't messed with creating F4SE DLLs myself, but I assume it's quite the hacky way of doing things, but you can achieve a lot of things by doing it that way.

[VonHelton]

 

Hmmmmmm........I wonder if an MCM can even be done? The way we communicate in Fallout 4 is totally different than in Skyrim. In Skyrim, we can have as many choices we want in a given dialogue, but in Fallout 4, we are limited to 4 choices no matter what we do.

 

:( :( :(

 

THIS post. Which is to say that, if you knew what you were talking about in the first place when it comes to creating an MCM, you wouldn't have needed to mention the dialogue choices in the first place, as they have nothing to do with the MCM.

 

Ah.......You haven't been following the conversation. Do you know what project I'm working on?

 

[pipdude]

 

MCM can be set up to always write to an INI file with every option via JsonUtil in PapyrusUtil. It's just that modders making MCM mods in Skyrim didn't bother to do that, or just didn't know that PapyrusUtil even exists.

 

Which is a sign that that model of doing things didn't work in practice.

 

 

From what I understand, you are fine with having the mod just come with an INI file that can have options and change those options. The downside to that is that you need to do a game restart every time you want to make changes and see how that affects the game.

 

Yes. I think that there are some cases where changing settings live in game is worth the extra work. However, 99% of the time, the options are things that a person could easily decide about outside of the game.

 

There was a lot of overhead that went into making MCM menus for mods. The code to make the menus was sometimes larger than the code for the actual mod. I don't see a benefit that justifies reinventing the wheel.

 

 

So if there isn't a built in method in FO4 to read and write files, and there isn't a mod for FO4 that does that yet, then unfortunately you'll have to do what I've done, and set up a shitton of messages to handle menus, or do it via terminal, which is also an asshole to set up.

 

Doesn't this emphasize my point that writing a bunch of menu code is a drag and not actually necessary for most mods?

 

 

 

An MCM system would be separate from dialogue matters, right?

 

Now that we have Scaleform access, an MCM should be doable.

 

In my opinion, MCM was problematic. I think that mods using their own .ini for settings would be better. Then your settings would survive restarts without having to re-do everything. And settings could be shared. IMO, there are few cases where settings really need to be made live in-game.

 

 

Well TECHNICALLY, the .45ACP is the original point & click interface anyways, so.....

 

:P :P

 

Typically grognards are the ones who fiddle with INI files, lay-people want point & click.

 

 

You lost me with those references...?

 

People who can only do point & click don't mod video games outside of consoles.

[Vader666]

 

 

MCM can be set up to always write to an INI file with every option via JsonUtil in PapyrusUtil. It's just that modders making MCM mods in Skyrim didn't bother to do that, or just didn't know that PapyrusUtil even exists.

 

Which is a sign that that model of doing things didn't work in practice.

 

You can´t blame MCM for people not using that functionality...

 

And there are quite a lot of things you have to do ingame, based of the situation you´re currently in.

Like resetting quest stages, stopping scenes, basically everything debug related not to mention temporarily disabling a mod ( or parts of it )

for compatibility reasons.

 

The whole argument is quite nuts because there is not really a thing against having both.

The MCM saves its values in a file which gets loaded on gameload by standart.

And thats it.

 

But honestly thats not the right thread to talk about MCM stuff...

[Chosen Clue]

 

 

MCM can be set up to always write to an INI file with every option via JsonUtil in PapyrusUtil. It's just that modders making MCM mods in Skyrim didn't bother to do that, or just didn't know that PapyrusUtil even exists.

 

Which is a sign that that model of doing things didn't work in practice.

 

 

Of course, because it's unfortunately not common practice to begin with, especially not on the Nexus. Instead, modders who make MCMs (which I admit I am guilty of, simply because I forgot the existence of JsonUtil) take the easy route of saving the data in the save itself via script.

 

If the next iteration of the MCM had the option of saving and loading data to/from a separate file (Which I believe it should), it should promote that as the #1-with-a-bullet way to save mod configuration data, so that it can be exported and imported later on. If it doesn't, then yes, you'd be correct to be angry with MCM. And I'd be too.

 

 

 

From what I understand, you are fine with having the mod just come with an INI file that can have options and change those options. The downside to that is that you need to do a game restart every time you want to make changes and see how that affects the game.

 

Yes. I think that there are some cases where changing settings live in game is worth the extra work. However, 99% of the time, the options are things that a person could easily decide about outside of the game.

 

There was a lot of overhead that went into making MCM menus for mods. The code to make the menus was sometimes larger than the code for the actual mod. I don't see a benefit that justifies reinventing the wheel.

 

 

Hell no I'm not going to argue you that coding MCMs isn't a pain in the butt, but the concept of having an MCM is still fantastic for mod users, and if done properly this time around, mod makers.

 

And to add onto that part where you said the code was sometimes larger than the mod's code itself, my mod has 800 lines of code for the main script. The MCM menu is 400. So you aren't wrong there

 

I'm just disappointed that you're willing to through an interesting and useful concept down the drain because "it was tedious to make it last time around" and it didn't automatically throw all the data into a separate file.

 

Also, you can't just say that 99% of the time it's not worth it, that's just a figure you pulled out of thin air if you don't have data to prove it. I'd say that most mods that don't have complex systems are not worth having an MCM over.

 

 

 

So if there isn't a built in method in FO4 to read and write files, and there isn't a mod for FO4 that does that yet, then unfortunately you'll have to do what I've done, and set up a shitton of messages to handle menus, or do it via terminal, which is also an asshole to set up.

 

Doesn't this emphasize my point that writing a bunch of menu code is a drag and not actually necessary for most mods?

 

 

Which is why I said later on. Right now, the best option for users would probably be either terminal/message menus or ini files, but both of those include work, one is setting up the menus, the other is coding a DLL for F4SE, which I don't have any experience of.

 

Of course, my hopes and expectations of an MCM are different from each other. I bet if there was an MCM, it wouldn't have the features you or I want, and it'll probably just be as tedious as skyrim's, but for complex mods, MCM with an import and export feature will still be nice to have around.

 

Fortunately, i can't post anymore after this, otherwise i'd keep going offtopic, which is baad. I gotta retire for the day. Let's try to keep the topic discussion about 4P please.