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HDT Skinned Mesh Physics - Developer Preview Only

zzz72w3r

By zzz72w3r,
in HDT Physics

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Alan47

Alan47

Posted
Posted

The way I understand it is that it's some new kind of editor for the HDT physics XML file. But the author also writes about some new constraints and stuff... well, google translate isn't perfect so I can't really understand what's going on, but based on the screenshots it seems it's going to be some software tool.

 

Definitly interesting. If HydrogensaysHDT produces something new, I'm in :D

Groovtama

Groovtama

Posted
Posted

Does the same thing as HDT, different Syntax of xml files, new different way to attach xml files to bodies, no collision atm(?). That's so all what I see on one glance.

zzz72w3r

zzz72w3r

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I translated as much as I can from the main post, but to be honest most of the stuff I have no clue whether in original Chinese or in English via Google Translate.

 

Stuff in () are my words not author's:

 

>>>

No fixed time line for future updates

The download link includes a demo ChinaDress

Not recommended for non-developers

  • Based on bullet2.82
  • Added experimental BBP recognition/embedding (?)
  • For the time being only with cloth support
  • For the time being only support btGeneric6DofSpringConstraint
  • Very likely to conflict with HDT PE (the wording implied the new system is replacement for HDT PE currently in use)
  • Very likely to conflict with XPMS
  •  
  • Simplified document format (I am assuming she's referring to the new xml)
  • Simplified collision filter(?)
  • Only support skin rigid body, in another word, the model itself is the collision body (?)
  •  
  • Added NiStringExtraData Havok via model vertices (?)
  • Name is HDT Skinned Mesh Physics Object
  • String Data is data path of xml doc
  • For example, meshes\clothes\NPRChinaDress\NPRChinaDress.xml

Regarding BBP embedding (?)

Modified SKSE\plugins\hdtSkinnedMeshConfis\defaultBBP.xml to modify embedded(?) BBP projection action (?)

If equipment does not have bundled physics or bundle failure, it will enter embedded/implied BBP bundling:

1. scan NiTriShape

2. If NiTriShape name is registered, add Havok object to equipment, stop scanning.  In CBBE, NiTriShape names are all BaseShape but UNP derivatives are chaos, weight 0 and 1 even have different names....

3. In addition....The embeded(?)BBP now has collision enable...

>>>

 

This is the best I can do and I have no clue regarding most of the stuff I wrote above.

 

Regarding the last point, maybe Blabba should take a look to see if this will affect CITRUS....

blabba

blabba

Posted
Posted

Ahh very cool,

 

It implements canderes' oft requested mesh type Rigid bodies

 

Your rigid bodies are now your actual mesh object (this could be good and bad under certain circumstances I guess)

 

Sounds like hydro implemented collisions injecting via xml pathing.

 

Custom simplified XML layout. Which IMO makes it harder for the actual modders. (I think Hydro plans on making their own custom toolkit for modders though)

Currently limited constraint choices, which is to be understood since it's a preview.

 

Downsides are no longer exporting directly from Havok Tool Utilities in 3dsmax/Maya etc...

Old hdt stuff need to be converted to new format etc..

 

Oh and here's the killer, it's not based off of Havok shit anymore :D

Seems like Hydro used the Bullet Libraries instead of offloading things via Havok (dunno, I'd have to look at source to figure more out but that's the feeling I get is what happened)

Depending on how many features of the bullet libraries and how good hydro's physics is we could start seeing a lot more functionality/constraints etc... from this version in the future.

 

edit: Took a look at meshes, and well unfortunately it seems like any and all collideable objects must be contained in the nif and that it is still bone based. Makes the nifs a tad bit messier.

 

27X

27X

Posted
Posted

Essentially it turns the entire character/cloth mesh into a deformable physics object; the end user will decide impulse strength, node moving  and friction control with the new overlay; the new overlay/utility compiles an xml controller file, but it also has a default "vanilla" system for generic bone and node interaction/constraining as long as the body is CBBE and the naming convention she's chosen so far is applied.

 

Certain parts of the nif will automatically get native collision support as long as the nif is named under whatever convention she's choosing.

 

 

 

offloading things via Havok
The translation there is super nebulous, but it appears to be based on Bullet interactions.
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

In olain english?What should we expect?I mean current a HDT PE offers cloths that move (but from what i have seen with major clipping issues), hair that moves (though only the ponytails and yuu's merida hair seem to work nice), breast physics and the effect from the HDT equipment.

Should we expect in the long run something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaTsRkrYrGo

or even better something like this (for clothes hair and breast physics :) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7y8XsX0p9M

blabba

blabba

Posted
Posted

 

 

offloading things via Havok
The translation there is super nebulous, but it appears to be based on Bullet interactions.

 

 

Yea took a look through the Havok free API, nowhere does it include allowance of custom formatted physics definitions (xml or other file type wise)

It also explains why all the preview XML's were watermarked by an external XML C++ library instead of nothing being there or the havok xml identifiers

 

In olain english?What should we expect?I mean current a HDT PE offers cloths that move (but from what i have seen with major clipping issues), hair that moves (though only the ponytails and yuu's merida hair seem to work nice), breast physics and the effect from the HDT equipment.

Should we expect in the long run something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaTsRkrYrGo

or even better something like this (for clothes hair and breast physics :) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7y8XsX0p9M

 

We're done with Havok (Modders rejoice!)

The new plugin uses Bullet libraries (which are what most 3D editing programs come equipped with by default)

 

so something more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0uvp-sn0LI

 

Basically, if Hydro so chose to, all the physics simulation capabilities of vanilla 3D editors could be accomplished in-game.

Like SoftBody physics, etc...

HydrogensaysHDT

HydrogensaysHDT

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

offloading things via Havok
The translation there is super nebulous, but it appears to be based on Bullet interactions.

 

 

Yea took a look through the Havok free API, nowhere does it include allowance of custom formatted physics definitions (xml or other file type wise)

It also explains why all the preview XML's were watermarked by an external XML C++ library instead of nothing being there or the havok xml identifiers

 

In olain english?What should we expect?I mean current a HDT PE offers cloths that move (but from what i have seen with major clipping issues), hair that moves (though only the ponytails and yuu's merida hair seem to work nice), breast physics and the effect from the HDT equipment.

Should we expect in the long run something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaTsRkrYrGo

or even better something like this (for clothes hair and breast physics :) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7y8XsX0p9M

 

We're done with Havok (Modders rejoice!)

The new plugin uses Bullet libraries (which are what most 3D editing programs come equipped with by default)

 

so something more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0uvp-sn0LI

 

Basically, if Hydro so chose to, all the physics simulation capabilities of vanilla 3D editors could be accomplished in-game.

Like SoftBody physics, etc...

 

 

sorry but SoftBody need vertices animation(morph?), which I don't know how to use in Skyrim.

this plugin is a "rigidbody system with softbody collision". It's a new idea so I have to design my own file format. :s

 

blabba

blabba

Posted
Posted

 

sorry but SoftBody need vertices animation(morph?), which I don't know how to use in Skyrim.

this plugin is a "rigidbody system with softbody collision". It's a new idea so I have to design my own file format. :s

 

 

Just a request, but whenever you think your far enough along in terms of finishing your new file format, if you could write a quick doc/guide on the format, it'd be nice because then I could make some 3dsmax scripts to export directly to the new format.

 

I guess true softbody physics would be too FPS intensive. Do you have a link to the Bullet API docs?

I can't seem to find stuff on Constraints and such.

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
Changer

Changer

Posted
Posted

wait, did i get that right? with this new system it does not matter how exacly a mesh is weight painted? it just deforms the mesh without using bones?

  • 2 weeks later...
Kissinger

Kissinger

Posted
Posted

Is HDT-SMP backwards compatible with HDT-PE?  Would .xmls for individual outfits/hairs/whatever needed to be edited to be compatible, or does this require new mesh weighting, or...?

reibushido

reibushido

Posted
Posted

Is HDT-SMP backwards compatible with HDT-PE?  Would .xmls for individual outfits/hairs/whatever needed to be edited to be compatible, or does this require new mesh weighting, or...?

 

It is not backwards compatible. Hydro says that the format is so different that anything made for HDT-PE would have to be reworked to be even compatible with HDT-SMP. So unlike the change from (T)BBP to HDT, this one wont be as smooth. The same link given earlier to showing the two skirts, one for each system, has a statement from the video poster that translates to this:

"1: Because HDT Skinned Mesh Physics and HDT Physics Extender is not compatible, so this equipment is also Physics can not be compatible with the HDT Extender"

Unfortunately, they don't go into much detail as to why, at least nothing that's understandable using translation software. Something about hingeconstraint and bird-like, I assume that's just a translation error...

 

Starting from scratch then if you want to move to HDT-SMP. I'll wait till there is a bigger support base for it.

reibushido

reibushido

Posted
Posted

No, I think it means more so that if you want to keep the HDT effects we have now, then the bodies and clothes have to be reworked to match the new physics created by HDT-SMP. Whether that means re-weighting the meshes, reworking the xml files, a combination of that, or even more work, I unfortunately have no idea. Only recently got into modifying some mods to suit my needs, but HDT-PE is still beyond me, and the differences on the modders side between the two I couldn't answer. 

 

Xuniana might be able to shed some more light on this, as (s)he has a HDT-SMP dress available here in the Non-Adult mod section. If they know what it takes to make something with HDT-PE, perhaps they could shed some light on what would be needed by modders, or even active players, to change over what we already have.

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/40488-hdt-smp-fox-41-new-hdt-plugin-clothse/

ancat

ancat

Posted
Posted

no backwards compatibility is problematic; we'd lose too much (hair/clothes/earrings/equipment hdt) for PC and NPCs to make it worth transitioning, until such a time as many of these things are also available with HDT-SMP. but who will develop them if no one is using it?    chicken/egg.  might need co-ordinated effort to upgrade hdt bits, or a simple auto routine to convert them...

 

or on the bright side, it's possible it will make ambitious HDT (flowing clothes, et al) much easier to implement.  which would encourage more HDT quickly (if you don't have to worry about body collisions, ie. they are handled, then it must make it easier).  would be interested to hear views of anyone who's played with it significantly to date.

Groovtama

Groovtama

Posted
Posted

It's a Developer Preview, developer know how to get both running. SMP can coexist with PE, you just need to know how and SMP will be slowly repalcing PE for Body\Hair\Cloth Physic in the future, but both can still coexist. Just the using both on the same thing could be problematic. But using SMP Body\Hair Physics and HDT Cloths shoulnd be an issue.

reibushido

reibushido

Posted
Posted

That sounds a lot more hopeful for me. I understand its a development preview, a published proof of concept basically, but the way its described sounds more like it isn't expected to be a simple swap/plug 'n play from PE to SMP. That is what lead me to believe that some modification to the hairs/bodies/clothes that we have now would be needed to start using SMP at all, but as you say, that issue may change in the future.

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