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Not That Lonely Yet- Are Standards For Life Partners Slipping?


KoolHndLuke

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 I was out this last weekend and was partying and meeting some new people (for a change). I met this one girl who I thought was pretty, intelligent, worldly, and funny. She had a slender, athletic body and looked to be in decent shape (like I can judge). Anyway, we got to talking about music and found out we had similar tastes. She had a kind of New York accent with a quirky high pitched voice that I liked immediately (I'm strange like that). She was telling me about something when her boyfriend walked up.

 Now, to be honest- I liked him too. He was somewhere around in his 40's like me and fairly smart- if not well educated. Not as good looking as her, but, he was a funny guy sort of and was laid back about life it seemed. My mind immediately calculated that these two were stoners for sure and maybe swingers to boot. Of course, I was right about them being stoners and was invited back to their house for some more "drinks".

 Now there was nothing really remarkable about this other than what I learned about these two. She was a working mother of two and he was a......BUM!!!! That's right! He didn't work. He owned a shitty broken down car that sat in the driveway that he "worked on" from time to time. He evidently sat around all day getting high and watching fuckin' tv or dickin' around on the internet....or maybe was fuckin' some other girl while she was at work. So I'm sitting there, listening to these two and laughing, but, thinking WTF? I mean I'm not the greatest by a long shot either, but, I'm know I'm better than this fuckin' guy! How did this worthless fuck land such a sweet gig? A hot girl that pays the rent (or does she own it?) and works and cooks(!), gives him plenty of sex, plenty of drugs, and doesn't expect him to do shit! I was so fuckin' envious of this prick- he had everything that I ever wanted! To make things worse, I liked his girl more and more as the night went on even though I was really not wanting to because the whole thing was pissing me off to no fuckin' end. Needless to say that while I was pretending to enjoy myself, I was seething inside.

 

 Have women's (and men's) standards fucking disappeared? I mean is it just lower self esteem that drives ppl into bad or dead-end relationships? Just because Johnny has a giant dick and is not a complete asshole all the time is reason enough to support him and have his kids maybe? To feed him, maybe buy him a car?(am not even kidding!) and provide the fool with entertainment so he's not bored sitting around in your house all day doing nothing productive at fucking all?!! Wake the fuck up, ladies (and gents)! They are just along for the ride and nothing more. In fact, they're probably have some other girl/guy(both?!!) on the side- usually one of your friends that just started coming over a little more often than they used to.... How do I know this shit you ask? Because I have seen it over and over and over again and again. I have lived it on the receiving end! There is no semblance of balance in the "relationship" at all. One person gives infinitely more than the other. Is it about a sense of control? Perhaps. It is an illusion and a piss poor way to try and reconcile what is to everyone else watching a completely hopeless situation. The more you bend over to please, the more they will try and take until there is nothing left of you. I have never seen this type of situation work out for anyone's benefit. It usually degrades fast- depending on various things. Other times, it falls apart more slowly. So, what is it? If you know things are fucked and you continue to it's inevitable conclusion, what will you have gained? I have lost, but, never gained anything. You look back later and think what? That it was a mistake? Clearly. That it had it's moments? Too damn few. That if things had just been a little different.....?

 Now if you are aware of this and just "using" this person and don't expect anything significant to come of it, then I say "sure!". It's when you don't count on that one wild-card to come and bite you in the ass that usually fubars the casualness of it all. Most of you should know exactly what I mean, too. Then it's suddenly not so easy to just "end it" because you care about them. I know from experience that where the heart is concerned, the mind has very little influence. I will part with one question. How many times have you heard your friends or family say- " I know it's bad and I know it's got to end. But I can't right now!"?

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20 minutes ago, SunJeong said:

Its simple. He may not have been that type of person in the past but now shes too emotionall invested to leave him despite his drawbacks.

Even though a part of her/him is screaming "This shit is NEVER going to work!". Mr. or Mrs. Right comes along at some point (not alluding to myself) and because you are stuck in a dead end relationship (that you won't admit to yourself) you let them go and they end up being someone else's. Being true to your partner is fine when both of you are still trying. But, when they have obviously quit the game- what do you do then? Stick it out in the hopes that it gets better? How often does that shit happen?

 But, back up a sec! All I need to do is charm any woman into letting me stay with her long enough for her to become "emotionally invested" and then I can do whatever the fuck I want? It's really that fuckin' easy?

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Not all relationships are the same. And there is no guide how a relationship should be. Just because the majority of relationships are in a certain way, doesn't mean it's the correct one. It just means it works for them.

Obliviously, the guy has something that only the girl can answer what it is, and whatever it it, seems to be enough for her. Not all men or women follows the standard expectation that you're supposed to follow.

Many men and women do not want to follow the stereotypical view of a relationship. But at the same time, some do.

 

You meet a couple and you only saw a very small portion of their relationship and have obviously no deeper insight whats going on in their lives in general. You only saw a small portion and based your judgment on that.

Who knows what he does for her. Who knows what she does for him. He might be a lazy asshole, but she could also be a hysterical cunt. Giving an impression is one thing, but living up to it is another.

They seem happy about it, and the ones who live a similar life should just be left alone. I have several male and female friends who exactly fits in the story you explained above. And it works for them.

Sometimes the roles are reversed as well. Sometimes the man is like the woman above and sometimes the woman is like the man. And I don't think it's anybody business to tell anyone how to live their lives with and who they can't be with. 

 

Everyone has their preferences. 

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55 minutes ago, Cynical Misanthrope said:

Not all relationships are the same. And there is no guide how a relationship should be. Just because the majority of relationships are in a certain way, doesn't mean it's the correct one. It just means it works for them.

Obliviously, the guy has something that only the girl can answer what it is, and whatever it it, seems to be enough for her. Not all men or women follows the standard expectation that you're supposed to follow.

Many men and women do not want to follow the stereotypical view of a relationship. But at the same time, some do.

 

You meet a couple and you only saw a very small portion of their relationship and have obviously no deeper insight whats going on in their lives in general. You only saw a small portion and based your judgment on that.

Who knows what he does for her. Who knows what she does for him. He might be a lazy asshole, but she could also be a hysterical cunt. Giving an impression is one thing, but living up to it is another.

They seem happy about it, and the ones who live a similar life should just be left alone. I have several male and female friends who exactly fits in the story you explained above. And it works for them.

Sometimes the roles are reversed as well. Sometimes the man is like the woman above and sometimes the woman is like the man. And I don't think it's anybody business to tell anyone how to live their lives with and who they can't be with. 

 

Everyone has their preferences. 

What I have observed in both myself and others for a reason to stay in one-sided relationships is comfort and familiarity. They know you and your little quirks and you know theirs. This is the reason ppl settle and do not look further. That and a fear of rejection. By trying to maintain a relationship where you are apparently the "working" part of it, you deceive yourself into thinking you can pick up and leave any time or that you are some kind of "champion" of sacrifice- putting yourself in a morally superior position for those inevitable fights over money and such. Now, for the comfort of it, you will stay in a relationship where you are clearly the "winner" of the two of you rather than seek a more even relationship where your partner is not just a lover- but an equal deserving your respect. Now in those types of relationships, the demand on you is much higher- but, the rewards are sometimes worth it. More balanced relationships where both partners are contributing equally means more pressure to maintain it- which is why ppl choose a somewhat "lesser" partner whom does not challenge their superiority.

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34 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

What I have observed in both myself and others for a reason to stay in one-sided relationships is comfort and familiarity. They know you and your little quirks and you know theirs. This is the reason ppl settle and do not look further. That and a fear of rejection. By trying to maintain a relationship where you are apparently the "working" part of it, you deceive yourself into thinking you can pick up and leave any time or that you are some kind of "champion" of sacrifice- putting yourself in a morally superior position for those inevitable fights over money and such. Now, for the comfort it, you will stay in a relationship where you are clearly the "winner" of the two of you rather than seek a more even relationship where your partner is not just a lover- but an equal deserving your respect. Now in those types of relationships, the demand on you is much higher- but, the rewards are sometimes worth it. More balanced relationships where both partners are contributing equally means more pressure to maintain it- which is why ppl choose a somewhat "lesser" partner whom does not challenge their superiority.

 

I agree to some extent and would like to add that you more or less answered your own question with it. She knows him and his quirks and vice versa. And thus, seem happy about it.

We, or rather you, also do not know about his and her past. Where they come from and what their experiences are.  Or it could also be like @SunJeong stated: "To emotional invested" 

We can only speculate, but by doing so we might come up with the wrong answers.

 

But I don't think the standards for a partnership is slipping. Because there is none to begin with. Instead it's prejudged stereotypical views that grows stronger. 

Society have this supposed path laid out for everyone, and if you don't follow it, you are considered a misfit. I however view it as the opposite. I think those who strive to be like the majority, is the weird ones.

I'm not saying they are wrong in how they lives their lifes. I say go for it if it works for you and makes you happy. But don't expect everyone to share your views. (btw, not aimed towards you, just people in general).

 

Do you know what the absolute biggest regret is for people who more or less is ready to pass way? That they didn't live the life THEY wanted, but instead followed the path that you're "supposed" to follow. To me that sounds really sad and depressing.

Spending your whole lifetime living a life you don't want, just because you are supposed to do so.

 

Lastly I just wanna add there is another side of this as well. You also have couples who has it all. Everything that they hearts desires, but yet ending up miserable. They forgot being grateful for the tiny things in life and set up unrealistic standards for themselves which they cannot live up to.

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13 minutes ago, GimmeBACON said:

... Envy can eat a man up inside, and leave them bitter and cold.

Yes. It can. But, that's really not the focus of this, nor do I feel the same today that I did then- mainly due to a better understanding of the why. Clarity tends to transcend emotion for me at least.

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1 minute ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Yes. It can. But, that's really not the focus of this, nor do I feel the same today that I did then- mainly due to a better understanding of the why.

... You're not meant to understand the why's of strangers, and be wary of pushing your views as facts that others should/will live their lives by; because you're only going to end up angry or disappointed. 

 

Whether you're right/wrong objectively, doesn't change that others use their feelings to make their decisions.

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5 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Shouldn't there be?

 

It does exist yes, but for the wrong reasons. As I said above, if you're not a sheep who follows the relationship corridor that was made up long time ago, you're a misfit. Something weird and society will look down upon you.

I strongly advocate individualism and the more we break free from the sheep mentality disorder, the better. So when I hear any story about a couple who goes against the mainstream, I fully support it.

They clearly doesn't care about trivial shit about who should do what and so on. They focus on what works for them and makes them happy. They focus their energy on the love aspect and sharing their lives together as they want.

But I am not saying people who follows the traditional way is wrong either. I simply do not care. Their lives has no impact on me, and running around judging people how they live their lives is not my business.

 

But let me ask you this. What would you have said if the roles had been reversed? Would you had cared at all?

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2 hours ago, Cynical Misanthrope said:

 

But let me ask you this. What would you have said if the roles had been reversed? Would you had cared at all?

Less. But, I still would have noticed. If your suggesting that I am assuming some things, then you would be correct. Putting or imagining him in a lesser position would obviously boost my confidence...if all I wanted was her. I am trying to look at the bigger picture and filling in the blanks with educated guesses and a little gentle probing. My insight into peoples character and motives can be disturbingly accurate at times. On a more personal note, I have been in relationships with those roles reversed. So I might know a thing or two about what I observe in others.

 I still say people are creatures that prefer comfort in a relationship over risking themselves on someone better in most cases. The older they get, the more this seems to be true. Older people will seek out relationships more to their advantage than a younger less experienced person might. You would not even be aware that you are subconsciously checking off a list of requirements when you first meet someone. The way they smell, the way they laugh, the way they move. I notice all these things- whether I want to or not. What I want to find out is what the most common need for women and men in relationships is and why they choose the partners they do- or more specifically- why the choose the "wrong" partners or lovers.

 I think if one word were used to define people's attitude toward relationships today, it would be "laziness".

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I kinda knew what you were gonna say and the response didn't disappoint me from that perspective. So cheers for being honest. And I don't want to come of as an asshole, but figuring out people overall is not that difficult actually. We are almost 7.6 billion living on the planet right now, coming from all sort of walks in life. Such as culture, religion and shit. But yet, if one takes a closer look and despite the diversity, we are still fairly similar to each other. You and me might not share anything at all in anything, but maybe my neighbor shares several aspect with you. And I might share some with yours. if that makes sense lol. What I am trying to say is, one sort of ppl can be placed in a folder called A, and another group in B and so on. I do not belove in astrology, but it's the nearest comparison I can provide. Ask any Leo or Aquarius for example, and I say 7 out 10 will claim "ohh, this is me". 

In reality is just on average how a certain people behaves and therefore easy to at least vaguely predict them. I for example have music as my biggest passion which counts as art. And many people who work with a certain type of art, shares so much with each other it's scary.

But of course, it doesn't fit every single one, but on average it does.

 

And just like you, I have been in relationships just like we have talked back and forth about. Sometimes I was the driving force, and sometimes it was the girl. Sometimes were on the same page about something and sometimes we were not. It's just natural.

But there were never any focus on who should do what and so on. It something was needed to be done, we just did it. I never expected her to cook or clean or anything, but she did anyway. And she never expected the same from me, but I did anyway.

But ofc, sometimes one of us was just better at doing something so it was just natural that, that person did it.

 

And I completely agree what you say about the checklist. It's hard coded in our DNA to find the most suitable partner as possible. However, as far as I know, humans are the only one species who can to some extent bypass this and "look past the requirements" so to speak. Or at least some of them.

I have my preferences and a "dream girl" but I would never go so far and look for someone who can fill out every single thing that I want. In fact I am very simple man, and only have like a few hardcore requirements which most women already posses. 

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I was going leaver a super lengthy comment about social dynamics but the fact that your diction covered all surface elements that don't really have jack shit to do with long term relationships makes the point of this thread pretty plain, and it's not worth the effort at all.

 

You're just jealous, and there's a pretty large chunk of subtext that you aren't terribly satisfied with your life in the first place rather just coasting along in a semi-frustrated routine while being vaguely dissatisfied, and being coated with the icing from someone else's cake apparently isn't helping.

 

The point you made and missed is no relationship is ever equal, never will be. Relationships are just as much constructed artifice as they are genetic selection roulette and that artifice can be literally any set of parameters both (or more) parties agree to, and until as such a time as you're appointed Orange Skinned Helmet Hair Human Trashfire in Charge of All Human Interaction, you'll have to navigate under choppy waters and mysterious currents.

 

Or you could apply more effort into finding someone you give a shit about.

 

Just be careful that you know the difference between being in love with a person and being in love with your feeling when that person is around, cause those are two completely different things, and one of them doesn't last very long most times.

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25 minutes ago, 27X said:

I was going leaver a super lengthy comment about social dynamics but the fact that your diction covered all surface elements that don't really have jack shit to do with long term relationships makes the point of this thread pretty plain, and it's not worth the effort at all.

 

You're just jealous, and there's a pretty large chunk of subtext that you aren't terribly satisfied with your life in the first place rather just coasting along in a semi-frustrated routine while being vaguely dissatisfied, and being coated with the icing from someone else's cake apparently isn't helping.

 

The point you made and missed is no relationship is ever equal, never will be. Relationships are just as much constructed artifice as they are genetic selection roulette and that artifice can be literally any set of parameters both (or more) parties agree to, and until as such a time as you're appointed Orange Skinned Helmet Hair Human Trashfire in Charge of All Human Interaction, you'll have to navigate under choppy waters and mysterious currents.

 

Or you could apply more effort into finding someone you give a shit about.

 

Just be careful that you know the difference between being in love with a person and being in love with your feeling when that person is around, cause those are two completely different things, and one of them doesn't last very long most times.

Yeah. Knew this was coming. There are always going to be a few hot-heads that start slinging insults. Maybe you just don't have anything constructive to say on the subject? Going to ignore you from now on.

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If the initial question is still relevant, I think our standards have not actually lowered. As the sole proof, I present the amount of divorces and breakups that are the averange now. In my grandparents generation, a divorce was a huuuuge scandal, so you just stayed with whoever you ended up with in the first place and made it work. In my parents generation, it's really damn difficult to even find someone who isn't divorced. And the reason is always the same, at least to me: They grew apart as their personalities evolved and at some point became incompatible. In the end it always comes down to the question if you are yourself worth enough to choose freedom and happiness over comfort and safety. Which, admittedly, is a terrifying decision to make and if you have children, there's always the chance that you want to make it work for them as well. I actually know very very few couples between the age of 20 and 60 that are even close to equal. I know some men who have financed their wife's and children's entire life and I know women who are not only the breadwinners, but also do all the housework, everything related to paperwork, caring for the children, cook and organise the whole family. And I can't help but wonder how they can stand it, but somehow they make it work.

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I have questioned how people got together and why they stay together and 'laziness' is one way to describe it but from what I have seen many times is that one person is the sort of person that always has to be in a relationship and will overlook negative aspects of a person. Here are a few examples I have seen among friends and family:

- My mother (who passed away last year) was essentially married 4 times (#3 would have been considered common law as they were together long enough but never actually married). I don't know how long it was before she got together with husband #2 after her and my dad divorced as I was rather young (before kindergarten) but my sister and I were living with her and #2 when we quickly left and she (and us) went to #3 (who knew and was friends with #2). She was with #3 for about 12 years before leaving for #4 (who worked for #3) and they eventually married and she was with him until she passed away. I think in him she finally found someone who was a good fit for her.

- A friend of mine had just moved out on his own and lived with a number of other friends sharing a 6 bedroom house near the larger college here and immediately made a move on one of the girls there who was in a relationship with someone else. This lasted for a while until he (officially) won when the household broke up and she went with him. They were together for some time and had several kids but eventually split up. He quickly found someone else (girl in a bad relationship) and they were together for some time and was married at some point. He worked as a writer and other jobs while she went to college and once she had her MBA she left him and stuck him with the house and a lot of debt. That was a little over a year ago and he has found someone else already.

 

I can't say anything about people latching on to someone immediately without talking about myself though. I met my wife on a blind date, was engaged 2 months later and married on the 1 year anniversary of our first date. We don't fight but talk things out, we accept each others good and bad points and have been married for over 18 years and still get along very well.

 

Some people find someone and their personalities click together well and accept the other no matter what while others may not click as well but stay due to convenience until they have somewhere else to go to and some people feel the need to always be in a relationship. Of course there are those that feel trapped in a relationship (that may be abusive) because they don't want to be alone.

 

With the couple you described meeting the guy sounds pretty good other than he seems to be lazy, that or something else is going on causing him to be out of work (I have been for 5 years due to mental issues, hope to get disability soon) but since you don't say how long they have been together or the current living situation has been going on it is somewhat hard to comment on exactly why she has kept him around. Who knows, maybe she is just having some fun with someone she finds interesting when she would otherwise be alone.

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I know a guy who's kind of in a role reversed situation.  Admittedly they're both young, and having not done a whole lot of dating or looking for relationships myself maybe I'm not one to judge, because shit's difficult sometimes.  Basic rundown, they don't live together, they both just finished a year of tertiary education, he works, she doesn't, she's super high maintenance and he just wants things to be smooth and easy going.  His family and friends are all pretty cruisey, hers are... a little less so.  They share very few actual interests and they argue almost all the time.  They got together a while back during a pretty chill time for both of them, when they were both starting their classes, he was making new friends and stuff and expanding his social circle, so he was in that mood where you look past people's issues a bit.  Now, even though he knows the relationship is over and it's just a matter of actually saying "we're not doing this anymore", he feels he can't because he doesn't want to be the bad guy.  According to her, there's nothing wrong and they're going to keep going out for as far as she can see.  For all I know, she just wants him to keep paying for her lunches, because there's no way she can genuinely believe everything is fine and dandy and ignore the near constant conflict between them.  The guy feels like if he says "we're done" she'll freak out.  Her boyfriend history is apparently not great, so he's worried about her emotional stability too.  And whether she'll be able to get by without him constantly helping her.  In this case, it's less about laziness and more about a misplaced sense of responsibility for this other supposedly functional adult who seems to gain some kind of sustenance from a life of "my shit is never together and something is always going wrong".

 

He wants to end it, but he feels like he needs to find a perfect moment to do it, when they're both feeling terrible and he feels they'll both agree it's not working, so he can walk away feeling like they were both on the same page, he wasn't some villain who ripped this girl's heart out, and he didn't just spring it on her some day when she thought everything was fine.  Again, everything is not fine, I swear she's sucking his blood or something because he's always tired and stressed out.  His friends have suggested various fixes, all of them perfectly viable, but some sense of pride or manhood or something keeps telling him "this needs to be done face to face, at the right time".  He's ruled out text or phone, because that's kind of low, even I agree.  Another friend suggested a letter, we've offered to sort of accompany him, just to be nearby when he pulls the pin for a little morale support.  We're all just sitting here waiting for it to end so he can focus on growing his soul back for a while.

 

I'm still pretty young myself, and like I said, not really in the dating scene so obviously I'm no guru with a magic formula to fix things.  They're both barely more than kids, so they're allowed to not know what they're doing or how to handle things.  And I imagine that with more age and romantic experience, this particular problem becomes less daunting, but that could also come down to the individual.  Even though it really should end, they don't match at all, they both want supremely different things in life and their relationship is basically poison, neither is willing to just end it.  Her for whatever her reasons are, and him because he feels like there needs to be some kind of finality to it, almost like a hollywood breakup.  It's not about comfort or familiarity, but it is still fear of the consequences, just coming from a slightly different direction.

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 Reasons to keep a slacker man around: He helps look after the kids, he fixes shit sometimes, he

makes her feel safe, she has low self-esteem and doesn't think she can do any better, she doesn't

like being alone and is happy just to have a warm, inoffensive body around, he deals drugs and

they're not about to tell that to someone they just met.

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I'm not saying this is the case here, but drawing one possible reason from experience.

 

My dad was a bum for while. If 10 years can still be called "a while". He's a good man, but stupid decisions in his life (dropping out of high school, no enthusiasm to build on anything after) led to him not having much to go for him. Now I grew up with my mom (they separated at my birth, really), but he has had 3 other kids with his wife.

 

Basically, it was realistically more feasible for him to stay at home and make sure someone was always there for the kids than pay for them to stay at school until either adult could pick them up. And since his wife is a nurse, she was better off being the working one. And so for ten years he was pretty much just sitting at home playing computer all day. A few years ago he got a job (as some inventory manager in some store), as my siblings have all grown old enough to be fine on their own.

 

Granted, his wife is far from what I'd consider good-looking (I guess she'd be average) and is more on the dumb but kind side, making this a bit less of a "How did such a man land such a prize!". Something similar might still be going on with your couple though.

 

But frankly, this seems more like a rare scenario more than standards slipping. I mean, sure, we see it here and there, but this is far from the norm. I wouldn't be surprised if the woman didn't have some personal problems of her own, say hardcore dependence and/or self-esteem issues.

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