The PC Gamer article on LL

[zzz72w3r]

I am not an etymologist but I think there is a difference between social justice warrior and SJW.  When social justice warrior is spelled out properly the usage is usually in context of those who are actually involved in social causes.  In SJW, the abbreviation cleverly lacks content and is thus used derisively to mock online narcissists who are overtly agitated in trendy social issues that they have only tangential personal experience with in real life.

 

EDIT:  I don't think the article's author is SJW but his line of thought is certainly influenced by proliferation of SJW presence in our society.  Despite the scientists and doctors telling him fantasy not only has little causation for action, the correlation is also suspect, he still felt that rape mod is morally wrong.  This why I said had PCGamer being really about journalism, a better article would be "I am OK with Skyrim mods for killing children so why am I sicken by mods about rape?"

 

EDIT-EDIT: Unfortunately like everything nowadays, SJW is not only overused but also misused such that it has gone from a cleverly constructed mockery to nothing but a generic insult targeting the political left.  Like someone posted earlier, anyone online commenting on social issues today is now accused either being a Nazi or SJW.

[BruceWayne]

 

SJW started out as a sarcastic way to describe people who take identity politics to extreme and ridiculous levels. Nowadays it's a dog-whistle term for the alt-right and neo-conservatives to describe everyone they disagree with. Or, as Jazzman points out, it's basically a generic insult nowadays.

 

As such, I want to remind everyone to keep this discussion civil. 

yea I do mean to use as an insult when I used it there, and not a generic one, I just too lazy to find a better words for it.

 

back to topic, I kinda feel the article is pointless, you are on the fucking internet, everyone can find their own shits, so try your best to avoid other's shits, this is the best you can do, because you never know what else could scar you for life. 

 

Taking a SJW or other mind sets to this is dangerous, for you and for everyone else, I hope this explain it better, I am not insult a specific group or people here, just giving an advice  

 

 

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

 

We banned political discussion for a reason.

 

Don't be lazy, find better words.

 

Last warning.

[Swiftstep]

When playing games like the GTA titles, Saints Row or even Just Cause, I can kill hundreds of thousands of civilians, by accident or by intention. And nobody cares to critize that.

 

This community is global. And the author of the PC games article is unable to think that way. We imperious first world tend to enforce our point of view on all matters on the rest of the planet. Includnig the attitutude to take people from the third world for stupid, because .. hey, they can't even plant their own food. Fools!

 

It is sometimes difficult to accept and understand this community. But we have over 5.000 languages on this planet. Each and every one has its own culture and mating rituals. Either one takes the time to accept that, or one should stick to play easier games like tetris or minesweeper.

 

Games are fun. Sex is fun. LoversLab rulez - we are the spirit the hippie community always wanted for all people: peaceful, talking freely over our deepest fears and desires. This is a step towards human evolution.

 

(Edit: oops, didn't read much of the thread, I'm afraid. If I'm trolling, delete this please. Thanks in advance.)

[D_ManXX2]

When playing games like the GTA titles, Saints Row or even Just Cause, I can kill hundreds of thousands of civilians, by accident or by intention. And nobody cares to critize that.

 

 

 

Since my previous post got deleted , i can only say this is not true. There are those who cares but i cant comment on them or else my post will be deleted again,  

[D_ManXX2]

 

 

SJW started out as a sarcastic way to describe people who take identity politics to extreme and ridiculous levels. Nowadays it's a dog-whistle term for the alt-right and neo-conservatives to describe everyone they disagree with. Or, as Jazzman points out, it's basically a generic insult nowadays.

 

As such, I want to remind everyone to keep this discussion civil. 

yea I do mean to use as an insult when I used it there, and not a generic one, I just too lazy to find a better words for it.

 

back to topic, I kinda feel the article is pointless, you are on the fucking internet, everyone can find their own shits, so try your best to avoid other's shits, this is the best you can do, because you never know what else could scar you for life. 

 

Taking a SJW or other mind sets to this is dangerous, for you and for everyone else, I hope this explain it better, I am not insult a specific group or people here, just giving an advice  

 

 

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

 

We banned political discussion for a reason.

 

Don't be lazy, find better words.

 

Last warning.

 

 

Then why has this thread not been deleted ?? if read carefully the aritcle it is politc related.

 

 

 

The freedom of the internet already provides many ways to explore these ideas, and maybe mods are just another expression of the desire to do so. But whether some of these mods are even legal, the cultural implications and psychological impact they have, and who should be responsible for regulating them are all questions we should be considering carefully. 

 

If your tallking about regulating and freedom of the internet this is politic related. 

[panthercom]

 I find the mention of applying some sort of regulations towards the creation of virtual sexual content

far more offensive than even the most vile, depraved imaginary sexual content that any of us could dream up.

 People have right to use their imaginations, despite what governments or self-aggrandizing busybodies

say.

[Nalessa]

I feel like this article is just gonna bring in more people to ll, then other way around lol.

[Naked Ekans]

I can't wait to see Kotaku's article on LL or NeoGAF's thread on LL.

[tobleron]

 while ppl writing articles do (each to a different extent) express personal opinions...people who use articles as guidelines for what they should think or do is the real danger/problem to this and to more global communities, but then again, thinking for oneself is not an easy task and does lead to a "feel" of loneliness

 So once again, the author is free to have an opinion and justify it in the way he/she thinks satisfying , just as moders and LL users also have the right to choose how to play/mod their own games, its not like anyone has ever forced a certain gameplay type to anyone as far as i can tell, thats what official developping does

[bytion]

I feel like this article is just gonna bring in more people to ll, then other way around lol.

 

There is no bad publicity, right?

 

However more people doesn't mean a health grow.

[Musje]

While the article is biased, the author has done research. It's not a mindless panic-inciting article on how terrible sites like LL are and how people like us are corrupting our society, though it's clearly depicted as abnormal and something worrying (at least from the author's viewpoint) which I find worrying in itself- it's people acting like this that made sex and erotica the taboo subject it is today

 

It's a fairly typical article on sexual fetishes, I've seen my share about BDSM. Openmindedness and quriosity mixed with misgivings and an attempt to qualify those with the help of a few psychologists. In this day and age of trigger words, kink shaming (as happened to that Drupal developer), hypersensitivity and safe spaces, the article is pretty balanced

 

What matters is not people like the author worrying about certain kinks, but such people wanting to hit those kinks with the banhammer without any actual science or statistics to justify such a measure. This guy did his homework at least, and appeared to accept research that didn't fit his initial views.

[Phelps1247]

I can't wait to see Kotaku's article on LL or NeoGAF's thread on LL.

 

Kotaku has already written multiple articles and linked to the site.

 

Which ties in with my actual comment, you don't have to worry about "noise" because..Kotaku has already written multiple articles and linked to the site, including an article about The Sims just a few weeks ago. It was also previously mentioned by PC gamer in one of their Fallout comics. Something along the lines of "Even Fisto was suprised when he googled "Sexout"".

[FauxFurry]

The PC Gamer article on Loverslab was better than the Cracked.com article which mentioned FurAffinity in which the site was dismissed as a place where people go to discuss the best way to engage in acts of bestiality.

LoversLab has gotten off fairly lightly thus far, all things considered.

[Vintovka98]

 

 

 

 

 

SJW started out as a sarcastic way to describe people who take identity politics to extreme and ridiculous levels. Nowadays it's a dog-whistle term for the alt-right and neo-conservatives to describe everyone they disagree with. Or, as Jazzman points out, it's basically a generic insult nowadays.

 

As such, I want to remind everyone to keep this discussion civil. 

yea I do mean to use as an insult when I used it there, and not a generic one, I just too lazy to find a better words for it.

 

back to topic, I kinda feel the article is pointless, you are on the fucking internet, everyone can find their own shits, so try your best to avoid other's shits, this is the best you can do, because you never know what else could scar you for life. 

 

Taking a SJW or other mind sets to this is dangerous, for you and for everyone else, I hope this explain it better, I am not insult a specific group or people here, just giving an advice  

 

 

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

 

We banned political discussion for a reason.

 

Don't be lazy, find better words.

 

Last warning.

 

 

Then why has this thread not been deleted ?? if read carefully the aritcle it is politc related.

 

 

 

The freedom of the internet already provides many ways to explore these ideas, and maybe mods are just another expression of the desire to do so. But whether some of these mods are even legal, the cultural implications and psychological impact they have, and who should be responsible for regulating them are all questions we should be considering carefully. 

 

If your tallking about regulating and freedom of the internet this is politic related. 

 

 

 

 

Stating your observation that the author is taking a stance is different from saying that particular stance is [adjective]. One is an observed fact derived from the writing itself, and the other is an opinion of that viewpoint and not the article itself; this thread is for the former, not the latter. This is not supposed to be a political discussion focused on SJW or whatever, but rather a discussion on our reactions to the writing, which focuses on the writing.

 

There is a difference.

[Stahlvormund101]

 

However, Skyrim also has one of the most flexible modding frameworks of any game, enabling amateur artists and programmers to change the original content in ways that the developer never intended.

How would he know? They disclosed the Creation Kit on purpose, it was not a leak. They may not have the intention to have every mod that is currently available (how could they in "a priori"?) but they must have been ok with extreme changes unless they would not have provided this powerful modding tool. He even later says about Bethesda:

 

"We do not police mods available on third party sites,"

though if they were serious about content policing, they surely could make a case, but they dont want to shoot themself in the foot. The popularity of games can only rise due to modding.

 

I am more interested what the purpose of the article was. If it was made under the premise of "let's find out what LL is about" focusing on SexLab, DD, Bestiality and Defeat is still quite narrow. He has touched on the topic that mods can be used to alter the game towards survival etc. but even here a big part of content is basically roleplaying, clothing, player homes, customization of the game. To me it feels like he kinda knew what to expect and searched for a way to hit on his target (Defeat, rape in particular) without sounding like he had no basis in research.

His rhetorical path leads from SexLab (which can be the base for consentual and loving sex) to DD, bestiality (see the escalation in his mind and article?) straight to rape in Defeat. After that, basically no more mention of other content here on LL.

 

He hasnt been "inside" the Skyrim sex modding community. He has scraped the surface.

 

I'd even say I have only scraped the surface, and I am member for a few years now, using various mods of multiple themes and even releasing a bit myself.

 

Multiple times he raises the question whether fantasies about rape or fantasy depiction of rape has an impact on RL behaviour and several times he quotes an authority that shatters this premise, most impressingly the GTA V part, but he goes over it and doesnt conclude that according to current scientific research, there is no harm maybe even benefit about websites like LL for rape awareness, understanding and empathy, but ends with a statement that basically asks for policing and monitoring beyond what already is core for LL.

[D_ManXX2]

 

 

 

 

 

SJW started out as a sarcastic way to describe people who take identity politics to extreme and ridiculous levels. Nowadays it's a dog-whistle term for the alt-right and neo-conservatives to describe everyone they disagree with. Or, as Jazzman points out, it's basically a generic insult nowadays.

 

As such, I want to remind everyone to keep this discussion civil. 

yea I do mean to use as an insult when I used it there, and not a generic one, I just too lazy to find a better words for it.

 

back to topic, I kinda feel the article is pointless, you are on the fucking internet, everyone can find their own shits, so try your best to avoid other's shits, this is the best you can do, because you never know what else could scar you for life. 

 

Taking a SJW or other mind sets to this is dangerous, for you and for everyone else, I hope this explain it better, I am not insult a specific group or people here, just giving an advice  

 

 

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

 

We banned political discussion for a reason.

 

Don't be lazy, find better words.

 

Last warning.

 

 

Then why has this thread not been deleted ?? if read carefully the aritcle it is politc related.

 

 

 

The freedom of the internet already provides many ways to explore these ideas, and maybe mods are just another expression of the desire to do so. But whether some of these mods are even legal, the cultural implications and psychological impact they have, and who should be responsible for regulating them are all questions we should be considering carefully. 

 

If your tallking about regulating and freedom of the internet this is politic related. 

 

 

 

 

Stating your observation that the author is taking a stance is different from saying that particular stance is [adjective]. One is an observed fact derived from the writing itself, and the other is an opinion of that viewpoint and not the article itself; this thread is for the former, not the latter. This is not supposed to be a political discussion focused on SJW or whatever, but rather a discussion on our reactions to the writing, which focuses on the writing.

 

There is a difference.

 

So ?? the public can never act on freedom of the internet but politic can. they can even ban the freedom of the internet we the public can do nothing about that. but watch it all unfold infront of us.

 

So in the end what good did this artical do and will modders do when a new artical is written since they where talking behind our backs about what was going on here should they not have included all users here on this artical as well ?

[Jazzman]

...

So in the end what good did this artical do and will modders do when a new artical is written since they where talking behind our backs about what was going on here should they not have included all users here on this artical as well ?

Look, to avoid these things in the future, an interviewer has to collaborate with their target of interest - Subscribe first, interview later!

I mean, we ain't naked indigenous that foolishly welcome a certain Christoph Columbus only to get butchered afterwards, huh? They want something from us, information, so...

[arpaschad]

Lol look at all the people here getting hot and bothered about a little publicity...I thought this wasn't the first time LL was brought into the light?

 

 

but who am I to talk? I'm quite disturbed that someone is disturbed about other people making disturbing content for an M-Rated videogame that will potentially make most people be disturbed...

 

Mindless word crapping aside, I think there's some good in this newfound publicity involving LL and the videogame sexmoding community as well...for one, I think this will help game developers make more good looking sex scenes and better looking depictions of fetishes even in a mainstream medium such as a videogame...Although it is tame for us here in LL the sex scenes in The Witcher 3 are one of the best ever and the game itself is critically acclaimed, sold a lot and is sometimes held as the "holy grail of open world RPGs"...even though there's much adult content in there...

 

at least CDPR really know what people look like having sex, then again they are from a country where sex-related content is not considered wholly evil...

 

but then again, that would be a long shot....The Witcher 3 is one of the exceptions and maybe GTA V (but you don't play that game for the sex content anyway so...) but other labels like EA, Nintendo, Blizzard etc. would not be too keen on jumping the sex bandwagon and would rather focus more on selling to the mainstream media and issuing DMCAs to people who try to emulate their games or make porn of their beloved franchises...

 

those are just the good points I see...but like I said, too much splashing on the water might attract the sharks...you may call us grasping on strawmen but better be paranoid and trying to monitor what few liberties we have than grasping a real monster of a problem in our hands...

 

But the elephant (or in this case Elephants) in the room has not been addressed yet so In behalf of all other people here I extend my apologies...

 

What does the LL gods mentioned in said article have to say about all that? namely Ashal, Kimy, Goubo...

 

we are all making a fuss of this thing when clearly it has happened before...and it seems like Ashal and co. isn't fazed about it...why should we?

 

 

[Kaz Aanh]

Sex in videogames should be a normal thing, I just like when the games treats you as a mature player not some horny kiddo ( fanservice ) or candyworlds where murder/gore/animal abuse/thievery/corruption exists but no rape or sex.

 

Witcher3 did it well, you could engage or you couldn't , all depended on your choices. It was overall more adult themed game. Compared to Skyrim which is kinda like candy-world, everyones happy. Same goes for Fallout4.

 

F1,F2 were also great examples of mature RPG, still F2 was too memey.

 

Its like people are trying to hide that *sex thing* , and flip out once someone mentions is ( usually called a basement virgin )

[bytion]

Sex in videogames should be a normal thing, I just like when the games treats you as a mature player not some horny kiddo ( fanservice ) or candyworlds where murder/gore/animal abuse/thievery/corruption exists but no rape or sex.

 

Witcher3 did it well, you could engage or you couldn't , all depended on your choices. It was overall more adult themed game. Compared to Skyrim which is kinda like candy-world, everyones happy. Same goes for Fallout4.

 

F1,F2 were also great examples of mature RPG, still F2 was too memey.

 

Its like people are trying to hide that *sex thing* , and flip out once someone mentions is ( usually called a basement virgin )

 

wow, Skyrim and TES games have never been candy world, rape or sex only show/hidden in words/lores, but nonetheless it's there, just because Beth sometimes is lazy and not taking serious approach to these things, doesn't mean they are all sunshine and candy, I find their games usually have darker side well hidden.

[GrimReaper]

 

 

Multiple times he raises the question whether fantasies about rape or fantasy depiction of rape has an impact on RL behaviour and several times he quotes an authority that shatters this premise, most impressingly the GTA V part, but he goes over it and doesnt conclude that according to current scientific research, there is no harm maybe even benefit about websites like LL for rape awareness, understanding and empathy, but ends with a statement that basically asks for policing and monitoring beyond what already is core for LL.

 

 

I do think that he had no choice but do conclude with that mindset. After all, PC Gamer is a mainstream media outlet and as such you can't go too harshly against what the public thinks or wants you to think. According to the scientists there are many people, both men and women who indulge in rape fantasies yet we all know that you can't really admit that in the public without committing social suicide, and that's just for your personal social circle like friends and family. Imagine how the backlash would be if you fathered an article for the general public to see where you at least don't pretend to be against these taboos.

 

[Jazzman]

./.

we are all making a fuss of this thing when clearly it has happened before...and it seems like Ashal and co. isn't fazed about it...why should we?

Oh, most likely one is already when one has to start an interview with an (imo classic) excuse for the late time of day. Not by chance that info got published. Teach me prude mainstream people, they just love to point to your minor 'weaknesses' to distract from the taboo prison for the mind they are hopelessly caught up in... that way they feel better for the moment.

[rahrahrah]

SJW started out as a sarcastic way to describe people who take identity politics to extreme and ridiculous levels. Nowadays it's a dog-whistle term for the alt-right and neo-conservatives to describe everyone they disagree with. Or, as Jazzman points out, it's basically a generic insult nowadays.

 

As such, I want to remind everyone to keep this discussion civil. 

 

Was going to say 'SJW' is what you call anybody who doesn't like any remotely taboo stuff you're into or calls out nasty behaviour, but BW summed it up pretty much (although in my mind neo-conservative is nothing more than a foreign policy world view)

 

As for the article, nothing to say, being a member here doesn't make get me all defensive about outside viewpoints.  I'm a fairly pervy guy who likes sex and nudity in my games and thanks to my RL and LL / contributors I can get my kicks regularly.

[Swiftstep]

 

When playing games like the GTA titles, Saints Row or even Just Cause, I can kill hundreds of thousands of civilians, by accident or by intention. And nobody cares to critize that.

 

Since my previous post got deleted , i can only say this is not true. There are those who cares but i cant comment on them or else my post will be deleted again, 

 

The point was: sexuality in mainstream video games is basically not existing. If it wasn't for games like "the Witcher", we were still limited to asexual games like the Elder Scrolls and Star Wars. Making wars and murder to be a common appearance in a video game, while strongly criticizing sexual content, is like a justification of the ultimate crime (in christian believe).

 

Enough of that. The article itself is not good at all, because a journalistic approach on the topic must always be from an objective point of view. Since that is not the case, and it starts to judge and condemn the whole scene right in the beginning of the text, it is nothing but a personal opinion of one individuum that used a megaphone to blast its ego into the nether. Some quotes:

 

> "enabling amateur artists and programmers to..."

> "...opened the doors to far more controversial sexual content that I wasn't prepared for"

> "Ashal isn't exactly the type of person I'd expect to be running the largest adult modding community on the internet....not like the digital Hugh Hefner I had in mind..."

 

The author adds its personal opinion on the matter in every sentence, instead of reporting what exactly was witnessed. The prejudice is dripping from those phrases. "Amateur programmers" is a rating; yes, many contributors and mod authors might be Joe the plummer kind of guys, but there are more than enough professional IT-people adding stuff around here. Plus, even the work of some non-IT-employee's is on the level of a professional.

 

"I wasn't prepared for..." blah. This is just stupid. I've seen jokes on tentacle rapes in Family Guy. And there is far more "strange" content like that on pages like pornhub than around here. What exactly did the author do to prepare himself? Obviously, this is either just another devaluation, or he or she simply isn't competent enough to use the search function on pages like "pornhub" and check for Skyrim stuff. What an embarrassing reflection on the author.

 

Plus the last of my quotes even tops this. Why would Ashal even be comparable to the playboy founder? Did the author expect Ashal to have digital sluts in the background, when having the interview? I don't know Ashal, nor did I ever talk to him. But I can think of him as a normal guy with an apprenticeship or study somewhere in the IT branche, having hobbies and trying to make a living with it. IT guys usually aren't surrounded with friends, good looking women or spitlicks trying to get some fame by being close to the esteemed person of interest.

 

Every half-braindead could picture Ashal better than the author, I dare say. This community is his baby, and he is making a bit of money with it. That's more than fair. If he was just a paperboy, delivering the playboy or hustlers, I doubt he would talk about the details of his work with others either.

 

So, besides all that, what is the most heinous aspect of this article? Instead of trying to understand a global community (and I'm pretty sure that here, on this very HP, jews, muslim, christians, buddhist and hindi are being the best virtual friends you could imagine), or trying to invoke the readers of this article that there is world out there, very different from what one knows or what might be able to imagine, the author does nothing but put the whole community in a dark and dirty corner.

 

If that buffoon is incapable of acknowledging something beyond his limited perspective, he or she should recede from trying to be a journalist. Here is my advice to you: go to embedded journalism - you don't even have to be ashamed to not write the objective truth there. Because someone else decides on what is allowed to be the truth.

 

[Kimy]

What does the LL gods mentioned in said article have to say about all that? namely Ashal, Kimy, Goubo...

 

we are all making a fuss of this thing when clearly it has happened before...and it seems like Ashal and co. isn't fazed about it...why should we?

 

Overall, the article is well researched and to me it was quite evident that a lot of work went into it. Which is at least much better than the general tone of some other articles I have seen about us. Stephen contacted me several times with follow up questions after the initial interview, and yes, from that point on it was quite clear that one focus of his article would be on the more controversial content we provide here. I don't particularly mind that, as the question where we as a community draw the line between acceptable and not acceptable content is a valid one, that does deserve some consideration.

 

The one thing I'd nitpick about his wording is him using subjective terms like "disturbing" to describe that content in quite a few places, when the objective choice would have been something like "controversial". I get that some of what he saw grossed him out (understandably so - some things here gross -me- out, too!), but I would still have preferred a somewhat more neutral wording in some places. Otherwise, he seemed to practice good standards of journalism, particularly when he obtained and quoted research that basically invalided pretty much any of his own concerns about our content. So, overall, given that what we do here is going against millennia old views about sexuality and how it can be expressed in public/media, it was as fair and balanced article as it could be reasonably expected from a mainstream publication.