Seeing a Pattern? [Rant, Discussion?]

[Jexsam]

Forward: This is intended to be discussion about adult mods. If there is a better section for this, please move it.

 

The following is a rant. Its only real purpose is for me to vent, but I hope it strikes up some discussion on the matter, and possibly new ideas. Some of the things I say may be insulting, but only because I'm being honest about my feelings on the matter. I expect those who respond to do so in kind; if I dish it, I'm prepared to take it. I fully expect this thread to get like two answers before fading into obscurity anyway, so I may as well give it a shot.

 

 

 

So, I'm seeing a pattern in the major mod releases here in the Skyrim section. By major, I mean fully voiced and/or quest mods. I won't pretend to know every facet of these mods as I haven't played any of them, but I know more than enough about all of them to know they are absolutely not my style.

 

First and foremost we have the Slaver's Guild, a mod that seems to be all about enslaving and demeaning others in one of the worst imaginable ways short of otherworldly involvement or biological impossibilities.

 

Then there's Painslut, whose name should make her function self-evident. She transcends beyond merely demeaning to straight abuse. Arguably among all the other awful things this and these mods do or allow, this is the "best", as at least the character legitimately enjoys it.

 

And Dark Investigations, yet another mod involving heavy victimization.

 

These are mods that, beyond their subject matter, range from good to extremely good otherwise, in terms of what has been done to realize them. A great deal of time and effort goes into these. Frankly, it confuses me to an extent. People here care so much about these terrible things to devote that much time and effort to making it a reality (well, as much a reality as any game is).

 

Animated Prostitution is dead in the water. ASX is nothing but anims now; no telling how long off the strip club/brothel is, or what kind of content it will even have. The only Skyrim mod that isn't in some way repulsive to me is Sexy Maids of Skyrim.

 

The most frustrating part of it is, this community is fucking brilliant. We're a shining beacon of primarily English-speaking adult modding, the only rival I can think of to the Japanese/Korean god-wizards. So why isn't there a project already in motion that covers not just one fetish, but several, without necessarily forcing the extreme aspects on the player? Why don't we have answers in development to CLS, the quest-driven juggernaut that supports three distinct bents (straight, lesbian, futa); or an answer to xLovers, a modular system filled with the most extreme shit you can think of, but only if you want it? Or even more simply, why aren't there other projects in motion covering more fetishes?

 

Thanks for bearing with me.

[Arngrim11]

I think this is the case because most modders make things they want to see. I'm not really any different I can't say I have spent any time filling requestes that I have no interest in. The best example of this would be the fact I haven't done a single CBBE port of conversion. If you couldn't guess I don't use CBBE I'm all for less extreme content but I don't know jack about CK stuff other than how to add armor lol.

[Queen Bee]

I would fully support a more vanilla sex mod, something that just lets you have normal sex with people without it being kinky. There is a topic devoted to creating a relationship mod, a courtship mod that I'm sure will include sex. I hope that gets off the ground, I want to see it happen. I'd like the chance to be romantic once in a while, and not just kinky sex.

 

You could always learn to code and make your own. That's what I'm doing.

[Thasic]

Point in fact, I found this site because I was looking for a good sex and/or romance mod for Skyrim. I'm a big fan of Nexus but no such mods exist over there. Someone may be working on one on the Nexus site, but I'm not aware of any other than ASX and AP which just don't close the deal yet. I have hope that someone here will do a good straight up sex mod. To be honest I do like some of the kinky stuff too, which is a nice bonus here.

[DocClox]

First and foremost we have the Slaver's Guild' date=' a mod that seems to be all about enslaving and demeaning others in one of the worst imaginable ways short of otherworldly involvement or biological impossibilities.

[/quote']

 

The way you say that, it almost sounds like a bad thing.

 

 

Frankly' date=' it confuses me to an extent. People here care so much about these terrible things to devote that much time and effort to making it a reality (well, as much a reality as any game is).

[/quote']

 

Well, the terrible things are indeed terrible, and to the extent that they happen in RL I strongly condemn the perpetrators.

 

In a fictional setting though, yeah, i have some dark tastes.

 

So why isn't there a project already in motion that covers not just one fetish' date=' but several, without necessarily forcing the extreme aspects on the player?

[/quote']

 

Interesting question. SSG covers about as many fetishes as I can manage. The problem is that the more, different fetishes I include, the more chance of hitting something that's a major turn-off for someone.

 

It's also a problem that what one person considers "extreme" may be "mild going on boring" for someone else. There are people who would like me to take the mod softcore and downplay the sex in favour of some good old-fashioned damsel in distress style bondage. And there are others who would like me to take things further still and explore the possibilites of guro. You can't please everyone

 

 

Why don't we have answers in development to CLS' date=' the quest-driven juggernaut that supports three distinct bents (straight, lesbian, futa); or an answer to xLovers, a modular system filled with the most extreme shit you can think of, but only if you want it?

[/quote']

 

The original plan was that SSG was going to be the slaver plug-in for the skyrim lovers system. I'm not so much forcing stuff on players. It's more that most of the other mods haven't been written yet.

 

Or even more simply' date=' why aren't there other projects in motion covering more fetishes?

[/quote']

 

Probably because we don't yet have a framework like lovers or sexout to base them on. That's something I'm working on fixing, but it's been a fair old learning curve

 

I think this is the case because most modders make things they want to see. I'm not really any different I can't say I have spent any time filling requestes that I have no interest in.

 

That's it, of course. I started SSG because there wasn't a decent slavery mod at the time. FNNCQ was great for slavers, but didn't have any sex. Likewise Training Cattle in Oblivion. LoversSlaveTrade was barely started. And all the Sexout mods neded you to play a female character.

 

So I decided to make the mod I wished someone would have written for one of the other games. And, (returning to Jexam's final point), I taught myself to mod so I could do it. And that's the moral of the story, really. It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

[Guest Donkey]

We already have a Rant topic why create a new one ??

http://www.loverslab.com/showthread.php?tid=938

 

As for your questions i guess it easier to rant about current mods being made, then getting of the lazy ass and start creating your own thing.

 

Prideslayer was making an sexout mod for Skyrim but quickly stopped due to some limitations with the skyrim editor. I think once these hurdles are overcome more types of mods will get of the ground.

 

Oblivion even fallout games had major jump comparred to skyrim witch allows any user to add new animations in-game, skyrim doesn't. If fore hadn't started with Fnis we would still be at square one.

[Jexsam]

We already have a Rant topic why create a new one ??

http://www.loverslab.com/showthread.php?tid=938

lol' date=' I honestly forgot that existed.

 

As for your questions i guess it easier to rant about current mods being made, then getting of the lazy ass and start creating your own thing.

"Do it yourself" is really the only surefire solution, yeah. And, hell, it's not even like I haven't done exactly that before. I'm the reason that shitty mod SexoutRocket exists, after all. XD Part of this stems from laziness, yes. The other part is from genuine confusion over why victimization and abuse are the clear favorites in what is otherwise a diverse community. Is it really as simple as "because the talented/driven folks happen to like it", or is the community not as diverse as I believed?

[Guest Donkey]

No it just means, the once who originally created mods like lovers with pk, either stopped modding, so no skyrim version is being created, Or they got the same limitation Prideslayer originally got, Or the very worse case scenario those modders got killed when Nature struck in Japan. After what happened there, many modders from Japan haven't been around.

 

I sure hope the originals once are still alright.

[jhondidfool]

Well, IIRC, SSG is working on top of a framework Doc and Sbseed are making at the same time, SSG is more a showcase of what it (And our geniuses) can do.

As for the victimization part of Alicia, I have a similar player in my blog story and I had to give her a big shell of pride to make it interesting. Alicia is a great mod, and the voice is awesome (kudos to both the author and the VA), but I don't see any kind of victimization in giving someone what they want, within reason (pain is ok, but damage, in my book is not. Then again, my character doesn't mind cutting an enemy's belly, so he might have a different taste).

As for why are this kind of mods the mainstream tendency in SK, the answer is simple, and has a double side: first and foremost, it's a very common fetish, more than many would like to admit; and second, given the current state of sex mods, and the lack in flexibility of SK dialogue system (Specially because to integrate well something, you need to VA it), non-consensual relationships are, by far, easier to describe than consensual ones, that usually need a lot of communication between the parties (Then again, in RL, healthy non-consensual relationships require even more communication).

So that's my answer, hope it helped ease your fears and understand why what is happening is doing so in such a way.

Also, being a lifestyler, I'm in heaven

[Athstai]

non-consensual relationships are, by far, easier to describe than consensual ones,

I don't think thats really true or a reason. I also don't think that 3 mods offer a good stastical base to draw any conclusions.

 

However if it was so that more fetish mods were coded in general, then my guess as to why would be that games offer a nice way to live out such fantasies - opposed to the reality. I mean none of us modders is trying to capture slaves in real life (I hope) or abuse anyone. Vanilla romances are not only "normal" in real life, they also dominate all main stream products from books over movies to games. So there is much less demand to create them as a mod imho.

 

healthy non-consensual relationships

lol

[jhondidfool]

healthy non-consensual relationships

lol

 

Touchè. They are called so, however. I'm obviously referring to BDSM relationships.

[GHJKL]

This might become a nice discussion. Anyway, my take on this all.

 

Reason one

It is really hard to get things working it seems, after there are some good mods

it might be an inspiration to create different mods based on the same framework.

It took really long to get oblivion some decent sex mods. Skyrim is getting it's sexsmods quite fast in comparison I would think.

 

Reason two

(Skyrim)Nexus (and other Nexus sites) have a mod policy that won't allow too extreme things. What is extreme? That is completely up to the moderators take on things. The mods, if they don't like it (too extreme or they just want to be dicks) it will be removed on their whims. This makes that those modders will leave the nexus sites. If those modders still want to continue there is a big chance they come here. So this is where the mod community has a way more adult and mature audience that wants mods more extreme than Nexus will allow. Which in turn makes mods here more extreme than normal (But define "normal")

 

Reason three

I can't mod anything that doesn't have an extensive tutorial. The ones who create the (more extreme) mods can, Modders are gods and can do whatever they want and we can only be thankful if we like it or shut the fuck up if we don't.

 

And lastly about the romance mods, they will come but will probably be quite boring as what is needed for romance is love, quite a difficult emotion to portray. I mean you have seen marriage in skyrim, it wasn't worth anything.

You get a wife who just sits at home who you sometimes beg for money. Below are a couple of romance mods (I didn't try them BTW) But they don't look that impressive.

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/6786

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/15680

 

But the great romance-able companions will surely come, But I think that the vanilla romance-able companions will not be found here nut on Nexus.

[Arngrim11]

But the great romance-able companions will surely come' date=' But I think that the vanilla romance-able companions will not be found here nut on Nexus. [/quote'] This is ture but that isn't to say the modder isn't from the lab it seems as most of us that make stuff that can be added to the nexus add it.

[Queen Bee]

You can't please everyone.

 

Ain't that the truth >.>

 

healthy non-consensual relationships

lol

 

Touchè. They are called so' date=' however. I'm obviously referring to BDSM relationships.

[/quote']

 

No, they aren't called that at all. What you're referring to is a consensual power exchange relationship, usually D/s (the D stands for Dominant and the s stands for submissive). I have been in a few of these, and no matter the level of power exchange they have ALWAYS been consensual. Usually all involved parties write up a contract that is regularly renegotiated; if anyone decides they want to change something, it can be reworked until everyone is satisfied. Even in Master/slave relationships, the slave chooses their master/mistress and can walk away at ANY TIME.

 

A RL non-consensual relationship is called abuse. Please don't confuse the two.

[DDproductions83]

In regards to time, The Painslut mod took all of 5 hours, and that was with me trying to learn how to make a off the grid companion script and scenes.

 

As for demeaning to women etc, I will say the same thing I told that prude dicktit of a skyrimnexus moderator "THE FUCKING CHICK WHO VOICED IT CAME UP WITH IT AND WROTE IT JESUS FUCKING CHRIST" I don't find it demeaning in the least because there are plenty of females who do actually enjoy pain to even extreme extents. The mod didn't encourage men to go out and bash random chicks faces in to get them off, but stupid people think that way and thus here we are.

 

Honestly it was a sidebar, I have a few other mods I have been working on and one of them is probably a couple hundred hours off from completion adding whole new areas dozens of fully realized/voiced characters, sidequests, and a relationship that can actually go enslavement or love story.

 

The problem is, I know that mod will not be as successful as one like the painslut. My Descent into madness took 300+ hours and has garnished less d/l while being on both sites than the painslut has on just this one. That tells me that the majority of people really arnt that interested in quality over kink.

 

Majority rules The people get what they deserve.

-Obamacare-

Hehehehheh I had to....

[cih]

Hello,

 

I am pretty new member to this site/community/forum (for a moment I wasn't sure how to call it ), but I'll add my 2 cents to the thread.

 

About a year ago, I contacted an author of erotic stories with idea of a story. The reason I contacted him was because he had a good knowledge of the setting and some of his stories were pretty close to what I like. He made several chapters (I gave lots of ideas and we discussed plot development) but in the end it was HIS understanding of the story not mine. I felt a bit disappointed. Stories were good but not what I wanted because the setting was great for a non-consensual story but the author was into swinging/cheating/cuckolding.

 

My point is even if you have great idea, unless the author is really on the same page as you, it wont be what you envision. Best to make it yourself and guess what? I still haven't written a story so I have no right to complain at all.

 

cih

[Evilrunner]

I think the main issue currently is that there isn't a core sex mod at the moment. It's unfortunate in this case that it's so difficult to get around the whole animation issue Bethesda left us. Once a framework is done though, I would imagine a lot more standard sex mods would start to show up. I certainly don't expect general mods such as hookups or prostitution to be absent.

 

I think probably the biggest danger is a bunch of completely unrelated sex mods with no central framework, and in some respect I consider that currently it may be best that those sort of things wait. A hookup and prostitution mod with two competently separate skill systems is not really the way to go.

 

Hopefully a LL made framework too, although I may just be biased due to sexout

[Med111]

I think the main issue currently is that there isn't a core sex mod at the moment. It's unfortunate in this case that it's so difficult to get around the whole animation issue Bethesda left us. Once a framework is done though' date=' I would imagine a lot more standard sex mods would start to show up. I certainly don't expect general mods such as hookups or prostitution to be absent.[/quote']

 

This. I'm checking these forums from time to time to see, if there is any progress. For me there is really no point of making a mod that requires sex framework, while there is no sex framework yet. This is one of reasons why I abandoned my succubus mod. The second reason is that it wasn't enough lore friendly. I admit, I like when mods really blend into the world - I can't stand working on something that feels out of place.

 

SSG somewhat blends into Skyrim, but I hope I'll be able to disable some of it's features, if they're added.

 

There is a lot of potential in Skyrim for lore friendly mods for that involve consensual sex. I found one of such... let's call it area of interest. Now I'm patiently waiting for framework and from time to time writing down something for my project.

[sushihammer]

I would also support some more realistic, non-abusive, multi-functional/faceted mods. I can't do much more than CK stuff and some very basic scripting though.

 

I'd like to see all sorts of enhancements to realism, not just sex based ones...but for the enhancements that are sexual, I'd just like to see them implemented in believable way. Personally, I guess I add the nudity and sex to flesh out the game more than for itself outright.

 

Something like, "oh hey, the village women went out to the stream by the edge of the village to wash their clothes and bathe and I happened by on my way. Oops." At such a point you could have a decision tree. Maybe youre happy enough with the surprise nudity and continue chasing that deer you were after, or if youre of a certain bent, maybe you do something else. I suppose extreme and realistic don't have to be exclusive.

[TheoryoftheDead]

First of, I really don't get why people always feel a need to say "I don't like this mod, why aren't you making mods I like instead?".

If I see a mod I don't like, I just don't use it. I feel no need to insult the creator(Which IS in fact what you do with such behaviour according to me) just because we don't share the same tastes.

It would be the same as standing by an ice-cream shop, stopping all the people who bought chocolate and asking them "Why would you buy chocolate, when I like vanilla much more?"

 

Anyway, back on track. Personally, I like the fuctions that adds to the gameplay.

 

For example, I'm a big fan of the combat rape functions. In my opinion, It adds more to the game-play rather than dialogue sex. "Don't turn your back on your enemy" gets a whole new meaning. It's one of the things I probably miss the most in skyrim at the moment(I still drop by my Characters in Oblivion and New Vegas to sate the hunger).

But as I am a pretty unhandy person(I was one of those guys who had trouble adding my own NPCs into oblivion - haven't even dared touching the Skyrim CS yet), I guess I will most likely wait until someone get around to doing it.

 

On another note, Doc, I'm very much interested to see how the "Slave"-side of SSG will turn out. I'm not that interested in playing as a slaver, but I do enjoy the situation when you're captured and looking for a way out.

 

Peace.

[creeposaurus]

These mods cover a spectrum of fetishes IMO. I think every modder has a right to work on a mod that covers a subject matter that interests them, otherwise, what's the point? Modding is supposed to be fun and last time I remembered, people create mods to cater to their own needs and share them only because there are others in the community that share similar interests.

 

Its like art, some of the most famous pieces were created only because the artist "fucking felt like it". The only other time I've ever seen artist draw something to make others happy was because they were doing so on commission. These guys aren't getting paid.

 

Just cos you don't like their mods, doesn't mean they're any less brilliant. Only way you'll find a mod YOU like is by making it yourself or waiting until one comes out, which chances are, it will.

 

TL;DR

[turbosnowy]

 

Is it really as simple as "because the talented/driven folks happen to like it"' date=' or is the community not as diverse as I believed?

[/quote']

 

My view is yes - those people that not only start voiced mod projects but more importantly finish and release them happen to like it. Might be because you just cant find that type of thing anywhere else, game wise, so people that do like are more driven to make something themselves- say as opposed to a romance mod where I imagine there are plenty of games available with engaging romance content.

 

The pain slut mod mentioned was a quirky side project done for the lulz as I understand it, rather than a fully fledged serious attempt at a mod, so probably not a top example to use.

 

If you are into other non-mainstream things, like for example fetishising fences or something, then nothing to stop you sticking out a sexy fence mod, since it is unlikely anyone else will - I think it is this that drives people to make this stuff - if you want it, make it since chances* are someone else wont. (Of course exempting skimpy armour, nudemods, female face changes to anime style etc as you can guarantee pretty much you'll have those in a week).

[migal130]

I'm not into the "scene," but I find it a little ironic that the Nexus is owned by a guy who lives in a country where the "old slap and tickle" is such a common consideration, it isn't even a subculture anymore -- it's just the culture. That being said, the Nexus is a business and someone has concluded that a line has to be drawn between what is acceptable adult content and what is too extreme, based on the belief that going too far could result in traffic loss, which is dangerous to an advertising revenue business model. What I'm saying is this: It's not that they are against extreme sex mods. They are against losing money. Whether or not carrying extreme content could cause them to lose money is up for debate, but it is in their best interest to make that decision.

 

non-consensual relationships are' date=' by far, easier to describe than consensual ones,[/quote']

 

This is a fact. We can't make a general romance mod that enhances or replaces the vanilla marriage system, because a ton of new dialogue recording would be required -- dialogue that is impossible to record unless one is an amazingly talented mimic capable of perfectly emulating every single voice type in the vanilla VoicesMarriageAll FormList. The best we can do is create new NPCs and record the dialogue for them, one NPC at a time. Unfortunately, this takes some of the fun out of it, because it severely limits the number of potential lovers/mates/spouses. On the other hand, non-consensual activity is easy, because there doesn't have to be any conversation in order for it to be believable. It's enough for us to just steal recordings of "yes," "no," or "ouch," from the vanilla game.

 

As for why there isn't more softcore or non-extreme stuff posted here on LL, I personally believe it's because it doesn't have to be posted here. It can be posted on the Nexus.

 

We also have to factor in the complexity requirements Skyrim presents. We are not all experts at everything. I would probably add sexual activity to Bathing Beauties Luxury Suite (I know my users want it), but I'm just a programmer. I don't know how to animate and as a result of Skyrim being switched to Havok, there are fewer options for creating animations than there were for previous Bethesda games, resulting in fewer people making animations available for programmers to use.

[sushihammer]

While I agree that if you really want something, the best way is just to make it yourself, I also think all the modders complaining about people criticizing their mods need to remember that theyre the ones who posted them for everyone to see. If you share something for praise, be prepared to get just as much criticism.

 

You can't make someone to make a specific mod for you, but you can voice your opinion about the ones they do make.

[Daguy]

I am carefully following all the projects you mention, aside from the painslut companion which is of little use for roleplay. It would be a great loss if any of them were to disappear, so please, try not to discourage their modders?

 

One thing I do empathize with: the lack of an overall sexual framework. I too would have liked to have seen this first. But honestly, what we 'have' works.

 

AP isn't really dead in the water, so much as Josh has had a crappy few years and seems to be lashing out at life in general. He will probobly update again, we just don't ahve a timeframe.

 

ASX however I think you are being entirely unfair to. Yes its 'just anims'... paired anims with multiple, and some same sex, sexual animations that cover the full range of basic sex. Blowjobs and cunnilingus, scissoring and fisting, missionary, doggy, and cowgirl. Thats aside from the masturbation and dance poses that don't require a partner. Best of all they are fairly neutral and as such can be used for both consenting and non-con scenes.

 

I dare say ASX could almost be called the current sex framework. It's what Dark Investigations is using after all. It is good enough for pretty much any roleplay my characters do. Are there things to work on? Of course, its current version was rushed out, so that we could play with sex animations. It could use more control over who is the giver and reciever in the sex. It could use facial expressions, but even Sexout hasn't got that and its much older. Plus; the brothel and refinements are pretty much finished according to the Nexus page, and the modders still working away. Its just the uploader is on holiday, and 'rushed' out the sex animations before hand. There is a 'big' update due when they return.

 

We also have some hope of an impressive and 'proper' framework, you never know what the japanese are up to. We might wake up one morning to find there is a Lovers style framework with a fair selection of animations already spreading. Wolflore got Lovers when it was already pretty developed, and by the time LoversLab was created it was even more so.