[TS3] Discussion about releasing the latest update of L666 animations.

[Guest Redabyss]

So... it's no news that L666's Patreon page was closed, making her latest update completely unavailable for common LL users, and even patrons who weren't able to download it in time were forced to ask around to get it.

Many people already talked about this issue, and I figured we should address the problem properly.

Since the November update is now old news for our ex patrons, I was thinking about making a release of the last release anyway if she doesn't come back in, say, another month (not by my responsability, we'll organize together).

[Terrefin]

Yes! That Would Be Great!

[lungpaul]

better not to do it with out her permission 

[Guest Redabyss]

better not to do it with out her permission 

Thinking the same :/

[Titan643]

As much as I would love the update I don't think it would be a good idea either.

[springacres]

 

better not to do it with out her permission 

Thinking the same :/

 

 

Thirding this.

[TheOniNinja]

I agree that releasing another person's content (in full or even in part) without their permission is something that shouldn't be done, it's in fact why most of the modding I do for Skyrim never sees the light of day, but if through inaction withholding that content becomes illegal it should probably at least be considered. 

A month or two may be too short a time to wait for L666 to return before posting her content but the longer it's left the longer the argument could still be made that it has become pay-only Sims content, which EA (and Maxis before they were acquired by EA) has pursued legally in the past.

[Guest Redabyss]

I agree that releasing another person's content (in full or even in part) without their permission is something that shouldn't be done, it's in fact why most of the modding I do for Skyrim never sees the light of day, but if through inaction withholding that content becomes illegal it should probably at least be considered. 

A month or two may be too short a time to wait for L666 to return before posting her content but the longer it's left the longer the argument could still be made that it has become pay-only Sims content, which EA (and Maxis before they were acquired by EA) has pursued legally in the past.

My idea is that, while it's still her content, she has already got her monthly donation for the latest update, plus the argument you said. It's not like she's gonna lose anything, since, as I said, she already got what she should have got.

I mean... as I said, I already have the latest update, so nothing changes to me IF the latest update ever sees the light here, I'm just thinking about the users of LL, who don't have any animation update on TS3 from ages, except the good ol' mike, and probably would really, really like to see and use new stuff.

I did the whole thread to list emails, users and so on of Patreon, but it seems that it's not going anywhere... 

[King Bowser]

better not to do it with out her permission 

Or what?

[loafkowalski]

 

I agree that releasing another person's content (in full or even in part) without their permission is something that shouldn't be done, it's in fact why most of the modding I do for Skyrim never sees the light of day, but if through inaction withholding that content becomes illegal it should probably at least be considered. 

A month or two may be too short a time to wait for L666 to return before posting her content but the longer it's left the longer the argument could still be made that it has become pay-only Sims content, which EA (and Maxis before they were acquired by EA) has pursued legally in the past.

My idea is that, while it's still her content, she has already got her monthly donation for the latest update, plus the argument you said. It's not like she's gonna lose anything, since, as I said, she already got what she should have got.

I mean... as I said, I already have the latest update, so nothing changes to me IF the latest update ever sees the light here, I'm just thinking about the users of LL, who don't have any animation update on TS3 from ages, except the good ol' mike, and probably would really, really like to see and use new stuff.

I did the whole thread to list emails, users and so on of Patreon, but it seems that it's not going anywhere... 

 

 

As much as I'm dying to see her last set, I would only want it if she released it here herself or at least with her blessing.  Of greater concern to me is what exactly happened to L666 herself... she used to be an active member of this community but lately she's disappeared without so much as a comment.  What's up with that?  Redabyss, you said she emailed you - did she indicate why she no longer posts here?

[Guest Redabyss]

 

 

I agree that releasing another person's content (in full or even in part) without their permission is something that shouldn't be done, it's in fact why most of the modding I do for Skyrim never sees the light of day, but if through inaction withholding that content becomes illegal it should probably at least be considered. 

A month or two may be too short a time to wait for L666 to return before posting her content but the longer it's left the longer the argument could still be made that it has become pay-only Sims content, which EA (and Maxis before they were acquired by EA) has pursued legally in the past.

My idea is that, while it's still her content, she has already got her monthly donation for the latest update, plus the argument you said. It's not like she's gonna lose anything, since, as I said, she already got what she should have got.

I mean... as I said, I already have the latest update, so nothing changes to me IF the latest update ever sees the light here, I'm just thinking about the users of LL, who don't have any animation update on TS3 from ages, except the good ol' mike, and probably would really, really like to see and use new stuff.

I did the whole thread to list emails, users and so on of Patreon, but it seems that it's not going anywhere... 

 

 

As much as I'm dying to see her last set, I would only want it if she released it here herself or at least with her blessing.  Of greater concern to me is what exactly happened to L666 herself... she used to be an active member of this community but lately she's disappeared without so much as a comment.  What's up with that?  Redabyss, you said she emailed you - did she indicate why she no longer posts here?

 

Wish she did. She didn't email me though, she pm'ed me, alongside with other ex patrons, if I understood correctly.

Anyway, seems that everybody wants to respect her and don't release anything on her behald - totally fine. I guess the thread made its course XD

[lungpaul]

 

better not to do it with out her permission 

Or what?

 

 

shes worked hard and had the decency to give us them do you really wont to upset her and others by not allowing her to consent to others sharing her work most creators have T.O.U to follow

[Moonglade]

The last Patreon update I have was 03.11.16 and I would love to have any others that L666 has made since, but I also feel it wouldn't be right to release anything without L666's permission. I hope L666 comes back to our community, but if that's not possible, for whatever reason, sending good thoughts and hopes xx

 

 

[King Bowser]

 

 

better not to do it with out her permission 

Or what?

 

 

shes worked hard and had the decency to give us them do you really wont to upset her and others by not allowing her to consent to others sharing her work most creators have T.O.U to follow

 

Yet she hasn't had the "decency" to tell us what's going on for the past three months. I don't see the harm in it since she's pretty much dead to this community now anyway. But hey, if you guys want all the newest animations to be unobtainable forever, that's your decision.

[Afro68]

I don't feel they should be released without her consent, but this may ruffle some feathers. If you were a patron of hers and you didn't get the last set because you might not have been checking everyday or on vacation or whatever. As long as you can provide proof that you paid I think she's obligated to give them to you but that's just me. Obviously there's a lot going on with her but when you start accepting funds obligations come with it. With it being shut down I don't think she has a patron list so it's totally up to you to probably message her here and hope she answers. There are some silly ass TOU from Sims creators that make you go "REALLY" but when it comes to this they should not be released without her coming here and doing it herself even if she says so to another member here. 

[Guest Redabyss]

I don't feel they should be released without her consent, but this may ruffle some feathers. If you were a patron of hers and you didn't get the last set because you might not have been checking everyday or on vacation or whatever. As long as you can provide proof that you paid I think she's obligated to give them to you but that's just me. Obviously there's a lot going on with her but when you start accepting funds obligations come with it. With it being shut down I don't think she has a patron list so it's totally up to you to probably message her here and hope she answers. There are some silly ass TOU from Sims creators that make you go "REALLY" but when it comes to this they should not be released without her coming here and doing it herself even if she says so to another member here. 

Yuuup. In fact, I was sending the last pack on her behalf, something that it's not quite normal :/

[billyms100]

I would prefer that her consent was given but this is a non-pay website, and if they are never released to the public then that means that she produced pay-only content. It does get problematic when looking at the fact that she abandoned these forums while continuing to use them as a means to promote her Patreon page for months before the incident.

[SimJMFan]

 

 

I agree that releasing another person's content (in full or even in part) without their permission is something that shouldn't be done, it's in fact why most of the modding I do for Skyrim never sees the light of day, but if through inaction withholding that content becomes illegal it should probably at least be considered. 

A month or two may be too short a time to wait for L666 to return before posting her content but the longer it's left the longer the argument could still be made that it has become pay-only Sims content, which EA (and Maxis before they were acquired by EA) has pursued legally in the past.

My idea is that, while it's still her content, she has already got her monthly donation for the latest update, plus the argument you said. It's not like she's gonna lose anything, since, as I said, she already got what she should have got.

I mean... as I said, I already have the latest update, so nothing changes to me IF the latest update ever sees the light here, I'm just thinking about the users of LL, who don't have any animation update on TS3 from ages, except the good ol' mike, and probably would really, really like to see and use new stuff.

I did the whole thread to list emails, users and so on of Patreon, but it seems that it's not going anywhere... 

 

 

As much as I'm dying to see her last set, I would only want it if she released it here herself or at least with her blessing.  Of greater concern to me is what exactly happened to L666 herself... she used to be an active member of this community but lately she's disappeared without so much as a comment.  What's up with that?  Redabyss, you said she emailed you - did she indicate why she no longer posts here?

 

 

You are right, the first concern is what exactly happened to L666 herself. As she does not give any news for nearly 3 months. I remember few comments from LL members upseted her. So she kept herself away from  LL, but she still release free update to the LL members.

 

All creators can not ask money from EA contents. It would be illegal. Releasing few months after the release to the patreons proves they do not sell their animations because the donators know everybody will receive soon or later these animations. They receive the release before the others as beta tester and the fact they can indicate their choice for the next animations does not means that patreons pay for animations because at the end all members receive the release for free. The donation remains a donation to support the creator and Patreons does NOT PAY FOR ANIMATIONS.

 

L666 respected the legality  because she released her creations for free untill version v16. She still released her creations after she decided to stop to communicate with LL members.

 

I think that is right to release the final animations after a while is the right thing to do. It prove that Patreons never pay to get animations. It would be perfect if L666 relelease her creation herself. It would be good if she agrees a Patreon to release them in  this website. But she kept silent and this silence freeze the situation.

 

ReadAbyss was thinking to release the final set bet the L666 silence freeze the situation. However silence gives consent and she did not mention she will not make free release in the future. 

 

For all these reasons I think the the RedAbyss proposal to release these final set is the right one.

[Sanmaeree]

The right thing to do is ask L666 to public release them otherwise just give it to your friends privately.

 

Normally you have to wait 6 months - 1 year to release author's content if they are deemed inactive/ quit.

 

There are some out there that want this for free, in the end it's up to the author to release these things.

 

[mmoblitz]

It's a slippery slope when it comes to things like this.  I have no problem with L666 or anyone putting there stuff on Patreon so people can support their work.  I support a few modders like that myself including L666, as long as they make it available to those who chose to not support for what ever reason.  It's fine until something like this happens.  If someone really had it in for L666 all they would have to do is tell EA that someone was charging for animations that are used in their game and haven't provided all of them for free to the public and they are no longer obtainable.  EA takes that stuff seriously and could take legal action.  It's always risky when it comes to EA and any of their studios.

 

 I hope she is well and can at least put peoples minds at ease and let them know if she is ok or not.  My only concern ifs that she is well.  I don't really care of about the latest set.  i have all through Oct and that's good enough for me.

[Guest Redabyss]

It's a slippery slope when it comes to things like this.  I have no problem with L666 or anyone putting there stuff on Patreon so people can support their work.  I support a few modders like that myself including L666, as long as they make it available to those who chose to not support for what ever reason.  It's fine until something like this happens.  If someone really had it in for L666 all they would have to do is tell EA that someone was charging for animations that are used in their game and haven't provided all of them for free to the public and they are no longer obtainable.  EA takes that stuff seriously and could take legal action.  It's always risky when it comes to EA and any of their studios.

 

 I hope she is well and can at least put peoples minds at ease and let them know if she is ok or not.  My only concern ifs that she is well.  I don't really care of about the latest set.  i have all through Oct and that's good enough for me.

Yes, that's true. Actually it's very surprising how much this community is respectful and nice.

[Nezumi12]

here's my take on the situation:

anyone who was a paying patron and was up-to-date on their payments when the most recent release was made available on the Patreon site should have access to that update. since Patreon seems to be the one who screwed the pooch here it's not L666's responsibility to ensure that those people have that access. which is not to say she shouldn't, just that she did what she was supposed to and has, IMO, completed her obligation.

as to the whole "EA hates pay-only content", this was not intended to be "pay-only" but effectively became such when Patreon messed things up. while it would be nice for the content to be released as "free" content, i do not believe it is necessary for it to be released, legally speaking, due to the errors made by Patreon.

as to content being released by a third party without permission of the creator, i think it safe to say that the law would stand on the side of EA in regards to IP and Copyright infringement. I.E. any lawsuit brought by L666 against such a third party would be ignored due to the content being someone else's legal property.

i would do one of three things:

1) get written confirmation that L666 either a: has abandoned the project, thus making it abandonware; or b: grants permission for the content to be released to the general public

2) find out exactly how long something has to be ignored and unsupported before it becomes abandonware and can thus be released freely

3) (and this is my least favourite idea) contact EA regarding the legal ramifications of the situation and discuss whether the content can be released without permission of the creator.

 

of course, you could always go the route of "if you want to know more, send me an email (and i'll send you a copy. don't tell anyone. shhhhhh)"

[Guest Redabyss]

 

anyone who was a paying patron and was up-to-date on their payments when the most recent release was made available on the Patreon site should have access to that update. since Patreon seems to be the one who screwed the pooch here it's not L666's responsibility to ensure that those people have that access. which is not to say she shouldn't, just that she did what she was supposed to and has, IMO, completed her obligation.

I feel this is a big technicality.

I mean, if I were a creator, I would be sure everyone who supported got the last update I released, as the most moral and respectful thing to do.

Granted, there's no oblige in Patreon, but still...

[TheOniNinja]

 

3) (and this is my least favourite idea) contact EA regarding the legal ramifications of the situation and discuss whether the content can be released without permission of the creator.

 

I'll just point out that this is already covered in the Sims3 EULA: Under 2. Intellectual Property Rights and Ownership, B. Contributing Content through The Sims 3 Launcher:

 

4.   In exchange for the right to use content contributed by other users through the Software, when

you contribute content through the Software, you expressly grant to other users of the Software

the non‐exclusive, perpetual, transferable, worldwide, irrevocable right to access and use, copy,

modify, display, perform, and create and distribute derivative works from, your contributed

content in connection with the Software, and to distribute and otherwise communicate your

contributed content as a component of works that they create using the Software, for example,  

The Sims lots or The Sims videos, without further notice, attribution or compensation to you. You

hereby waive any moral rights of paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution under applicable

law with respect to EA’s and other players’ use and enjoyment of such content contributions in

connection with the Software. 

 

Emphasis mine. Basically once you have shared any content you make for the Sims3 with anyone else they have the right to use it, modify it or share it with anyone else and in any way they want. Now, just taking stuff somebody else has made and using/sharing it in ways they have expressly asked other users not to is still a really scumbaggy thing to do but EA made it clear back in the day of Sims2 paysite popularity that once you produce content for their game you have no enforceable rights for its use or distribution. At the time this was done to promote non-profit sharing of any paysite content that slipped through the cracks.

Most games that enable or provide custom content functionality nowadays have such terms and, apart from most modding sites having rules against unauthorized sharing of other peoples' content, it's ultimately only a matter of courtesy in the community that people respect and honor other content creators' terms and permissions.

[windpl]

 

It's a slippery slope when it comes to things like this.  I have no problem with L666 or anyone putting there stuff on Patreon so people can support their work.  I support a few modders like that myself including L666, as long as they make it available to those who chose to not support for what ever reason.  It's fine until something like this happens.  If someone really had it in for L666 all they would have to do is tell EA that someone was charging for animations that are used in their game and haven't provided all of them for free to the public and they are no longer obtainable.  EA takes that stuff seriously and could take legal action.  It's always risky when it comes to EA and any of their studios.

 

 I hope she is well and can at least put peoples minds at ease and let them know if she is ok or not.  My only concern ifs that she is well.  I don't really care of about the latest set.  i have all through Oct and that's good enough for me.

Yes, that's true. Actually it's very surprising how much this community is respectful and nice.

 

 

Don't make me laugh. Only thing to make it invalid is saying that panteon user is providing service and EA can do shit about it. But, yes please release her stuff, make example how ungrateful fuckers we are, im sure that will encourage people in future to try making something that require effort and release it for others.