Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Guest]

I'll test it later today, again I actually like it.

[dnoah]

 

 

More like mild torture device. Can't comfortably lie down in it, as in case of a yoke. It's just that most mods likely won't have the level of sophistication to apply it properly (first offense - demonstration only, etc.), and just slap it all on a character and leave her to stew.

 

Do you really want to debate whether its more of a torture device or a humiliation device or do you just like correcting people?

It's both humiliating and a torture device its not 1 or the other or more of one category. I am sorry I hate when people do that

Well actually *pushed glasses closer to face* its this instead of this blah blah.... anyway.

 

Also I am pretty sure people will test out items before they add them to their mod willy nilly, I am just in favor of having options.

 

Neither. Just pointing out one more thing for the devs to consider when deciding which resources DD is to provide, since apart from this particular device it seems to be the matter in question here.

[Guest]

Here is a screenshot of the Prototype BBYoke with it conformed using UUNP Sliders for my character.
 
https://image.ibb.co/iVeRh5/enb_2017_07_19_18_34_39_34.png

[Hæretic]

 

 

I'm not talking about the nature of the item. What I mean is that it doesn't look appealing at all. None of the other items cause ugly bodily deformations so I'm fine with them (well, I did object to the pear at first but I warmed to it while working on its mechanics)

 

Aesthetics aside, I think it's technically questionable as well, bodyslide was clearly not designed for this sort of thing so the quality of output leaves much to be desired.

 

Ah, I misunderstood you then, sorry. However... now you've raised my curiosity and I went looking for pictures of something like that in the depths of the internet. Needless to say that I found some plenty!

 

What Haeretic did with the body model there isn't actually very far off from what happens to the body in reality it seems. I'm not such a huge fan of the aesthetics either, particularly after seeing some of those pictures just now, but I'd say the model Haeretic built is pretty realistic.

 

Probably depends quite a lot on how the body preset and morphs are being used by the player and after looking at it in-game briefly it seems to work better with larger and "standard UNP shaped" breasts. But that's also true for other clothing and devices models that cover the chest (like how the chastity bra can look a bit weird when one is using Racemenu Morphs to come up with realistically non-round breasts).

 

 

I was inspired by an older Insex.com video while creating this device so yes that one does really exist ^^

I agree the result is far from perfect but for a lot of breast sizes it does work quite well. Everything really small or big of course deforms the device or the breasts in undesirable ways. 

This could be optimized by creating new blendshapes for every breast morph manually but that's quite some work and I am not up to do it tbh. 

 

I guess there's technically no harm in letting it stay. I'm not sure about having it as the flagship item of this device type, but maybe we'll come up some good fits for this animation set in the future. The animation could probably work with something less problematic like a yoke+chastity bra hybrid but that's a bit beyond the scope of this release cycle.

 

Maybe it just looks ugly in my specific use case. Let's find out: I'd like to ask testers to take some screenshots of how the item looks with their bodyslide preset applied (and please mention whether it's the UUNP or CBBE version). If the overall results look satisfactory I'll let it go. This test will also be a good way to identify bugs.

Of course, I would like to see it in DD because it probably won't go into HR, I can't add AA's to HR that would just cause chaos. But I understand if you don't want to add a problematic item like this into DD. This one always was a bitch, I have it on my drive for a while now without releasing it... 

Can you maybe exclude it from any random spawn lists? I am not sure if DD even has such a thing or if third party mods supply these features? I mean if the yoke doesn't get randomly thrown at people I see no harm in having it in DD.

About the whole torture device discussion, yes that one is a bit extreme but so are a lot of my items 

Virtual erotica, no one gets harmed, that's kind of the point   I mean it's wearable without permanent damage can't say that about the spiked iron boots...

But again the technical problems are valid, I wouldn't be offended if you don't want it.

[Guest]

@Hæretic

 

I actually like it and it works perfectly on my character I even tested it on over sized breasts without issues.  I do think it would look a little better with possibly a back support metal piece that connects around it but thats just me but anyway its still fine as is.

[Bimbino01]

Will devious devices ever incorporate facial features, such as an embarrased look when plugs vibrate or just looks of pain in some of the more devious devices?

[Nazzzgul666]

On a personal note, I'm not the biggest fan of the breast yoke. It looks... mhm... I'm not sure if body horror belongs in DD. And its implementation as a body slot blocking device feels somewhat jarring.

 

TESV 2017-07-19 19-39-03-05.png

 

I'm tempted to appeal for reevaluation of its addition but I'll wait for test results and user feedback first.

Can't say i'm exactly a fan of this particular one, but i'd be happy about the ropes with a similar effect which heretic made for UUNP only so far afaik. But that's really just a personal taste, the ropes just still fit my personal taste of cruelty while the yoke might be a bit too far. If the question is, should DD support those items in general i'd definitly say yes.

 

Speaking of UNNP only, i could imagine it looks different for CBBE or UNP even if both are supported? I'll see to get a screenshot later for CBBE.

[Princessity]

 

 

 

I'm not talking about the nature of the item. What I mean is that it doesn't look appealing at all. None of the other items cause ugly bodily deformations so I'm fine with them (well, I did object to the pear at first but I warmed to it while working on its mechanics)

 

Aesthetics aside, I think it's technically questionable as well, bodyslide was clearly not designed for this sort of thing so the quality of output leaves much to be desired.

 

Ah, I misunderstood you then, sorry. However... now you've raised my curiosity and I went looking for pictures of something like that in the depths of the internet. Needless to say that I found some plenty!

 

What Haeretic did with the body model there isn't actually very far off from what happens to the body in reality it seems. I'm not such a huge fan of the aesthetics either, particularly after seeing some of those pictures just now, but I'd say the model Haeretic built is pretty realistic.

 

Probably depends quite a lot on how the body preset and morphs are being used by the player and after looking at it in-game briefly it seems to work better with larger and "standard UNP shaped" breasts. But that's also true for other clothing and devices models that cover the chest (like how the chastity bra can look a bit weird when one is using Racemenu Morphs to come up with realistically non-round breasts).

 

 

I was inspired by an older Insex.com video while creating this device so yes that one does really exist ^^

I agree the result is far from perfect but for a lot of breast sizes it does work quite well. Everything really small or big of course deforms the device or the breasts in undesirable ways. 

This could be optimized by creating new blendshapes for every breast morph manually but that's quite some work and I am not up to do it tbh. 

 

I guess there's technically no harm in letting it stay. I'm not sure about having it as the flagship item of this device type, but maybe we'll come up some good fits for this animation set in the future. The animation could probably work with something less problematic like a yoke+chastity bra hybrid but that's a bit beyond the scope of this release cycle.

 

Maybe it just looks ugly in my specific use case. Let's find out: I'd like to ask testers to take some screenshots of how the item looks with their bodyslide preset applied (and please mention whether it's the UUNP or CBBE version). If the overall results look satisfactory I'll let it go. This test will also be a good way to identify bugs.

Of course, I would like to see it in DD because it probably won't go into HR, I can't add AA's to HR that would just cause chaos. But I understand if you don't want to add a problematic item like this into DD. This one always was a bitch, I have it on my drive for a while now without releasing it... 

Can you maybe exclude it from any random spawn lists? I am not sure if DD even has such a thing or if third party mods supply these features? I mean if the yoke doesn't get randomly thrown at people I see no harm in having it in DD.

About the whole torture device discussion, yes that one is a bit extreme but so are a lot of my items 

Virtual erotica, no one gets harmed, that's kind of the point   I mean it's wearable without permanent damage can't say that about the spiked iron boots...

But again the technical problems are valid, I wouldn't be offended if you don't want it.

 

 

Okay, Kimy seems to be okay with this device too so I guess it's just me.

 

Um... anyways there are still some technical problems with it. dnoah (on the previous page) seems to have a case of stray vertices and atreyatan's screenshots show some weirdness with nipples. I didn't notice it at first but the cel-shading really brings out the asymmetry.

 

Would you be able to look into polishing the device some more before we release? <3

[eggsalad]

Looks like Kimy for some reason reenabled the unfinished SurreptitiousStreets quests with the recent zadconfig edit, without adding back the MCM options for disabling them. I figured out how to disable with console commands, but I just wanted to give a heads up after all that frustration I went through figuring out what mod the quest even came from, what part of the mod it came from, why it didn't show up in the MCM or get mentioned anywhere except in 3 year old posts saying it was disabled, and how to disable it without MCM.

 

And in case it happens to someone else, I'll make the post I wish I had found when I was troubleshooting: If you want to disable the Radiant Master quest from triggering, type the following into the console:

setpqv zadconfigquest SurreptitiousStreet false

setpqv zadconfigquest RadiantMaster false

[Kimy]

Looks like Kimy for some reason reenabled the unfinished SurreptitiousStreets quests with the recent zadconfig edit,

 

Oops.

[Seph64]

Looks like Kimy for some reason reenabled the unfinished SurreptitiousStreets quests with the recent zadconfig edit, 

 

Now my first question is, "What is this quest, and why did they disable it?" Must be a leftover thing from ZAZ?

[Princessity]

It's actually something Min started on about 12 million years ago. The plan was (if I remember correctly, it's been a long time, close to when I first joined the team) to create a device distribution system via loot and traps along with some slavery features. That was before DCL existed so at the time For The Masses and Captured Dreams (and to a lesser extent Devious Captures) were the only distribution mods and none of them quite covered the intended function of Surreptitious Streets.

 

But Min wasn't able to progress very far, he was really busy and more general framework functions and improvements took priority so the project got pushed back and back. Evnetually it was abandoned because there was no way it would get finished and by that point Cursed Loot had just come out and started rapidly growing, over time subsuming most of what Surreptitious Streets was designed to do. In a way DCL became a spiritual successor to the project.

[Veladarius]

It's actually something Min started on about 12 million years ago. The plan was (if I remember correctly, it's been a long time, close to when I first joined the team) to create a device distribution system via loot and traps along with some slavery features. That was before DCL existed so at the time For The Fun and Captured Dreams (and to a lesser extent Devious Captures) were the only distribution mods and none of them quite covered the intended function of Surreptitious Streets.

 

But Min wasn't able to progress very far, he was really busy and more general framework functions and improvements took priority so the project got pushed back and back. Evnetually it was abandoned because there was no way it would get finished and by that point Cursed Loot had just come out and started rapidly growing, over time subsuming most of what Surreptitious Streets was designed to do. In a way DCL became a spiritual successor to the project.

 

You are pretty much correct except that it would be in people's homes and if triggered (directed mainly at thieves) you would be their slave for a while. Min had the radiant quest system done and I had laid out the dialogue trees for the various parts of the quest but putting it all together would have taken time away from device development as there were a number of items being added at that point and Min had less time to devote to DD. Another reason was that Min wanted to play these sorts of situations and making them took the surprise and such out of it and with more of us developing different mods for DD he decided to keep DDi a framework instead of adding more quests. The only quests that have been added were to introduce players to some of the items within DD.

[Princessity]

Oh, right, that's how the the slavery features were supposed to come into play, I forgot how it all connected.

 

Anyways, that's why there are leftovers of Surreptitious Streets in the code. It's unfortunately all there is to it, I'm afraid even now putting it together would be beyond the scope of core DD development. We kinda forgot there even were still ways to enable it, that was definitely not intended, we're sorry for the inconvenience ^^

 

Also my tired brain somehow renamed "For the Masses" to "For the Fun", I have no idea how this happened XD

[Darkpig]

 

 

Okay, Kimy seems to be okay with this device too so I guess it's just me.

 

 

Could just be part of Kimy's evil plan to... what is her evil plan exactly?

[Kimy]

 

 

 

Okay, Kimy seems to be okay with this device too so I guess it's just me.

 

 

Could just be part of Kimy's evil plan to... what is her evil plan exactly?

 

 

[Kimy]

Added "Manipulate Locks" feature.

Players can now chose to disable a generic DD device's locking mechanismwhen voluntarily equipping a device. This means they can remove it atany time they wish. Modders can override the feature, and it will notwork for quest/custom devices.Also added a new API function ForceEquipDevice() to zadlibs, that willNOT fail if a device of the same type is already worn, but attempt toremove the conflicting item instead. This will work for generic devicesONLY.Also - disabled the standard yoke/armbinder "Help Me" dialogues, as theywere not compatible with the new wrist restraint implementation and areredundant with numerious similar features in DD content mods.

 

[Veladarius]

Oh, right, that's how the the slavery features were supposed to come into play, I forgot how it all connected.

 

Anyways, that's why there are leftovers of Surreptitious Streets in the code. It's unfortunately all there is to it, I'm afraid even now putting it together would be beyond the scope of core DD development. We kinda forgot there even were still ways to enable it, that was definitely not intended, we're sorry for the inconvenience ^^

 

Also my tired brain somehow renamed "For the Masses" to "For the Fun", I have no idea how this happened XD

 

I am surprised that the code was still there as that was started just after DDi's initial release though between Zadil and then Koffe making new items Min was kept quite busy and the quests were rather ambitious compared to the other two that have been included in DDi.

 

I would suggest that, if you hit a point that requires a new game on update, you remove the remains of the quest unless parts of it have been integrated into something else in DDI.

[dnoah]

 

 remove the remains of the quest

 

Pity though: there's quite a bit of text for Radiant Master there, and it's pretty dam good. I was hoping actually that someone would take over and get this finished.

[Veladarius]

 

 

 remove the remains of the quest

 

Pity though: there's quite a bit of text for Radiant Master there, and it's pretty dam good. I was hoping actually that someone would take over and get this finished.

 

 

The drive that had the entire dialogue setup for all of the quests had mostly died. I had pulled a lot off of it but still may be able to get it.

[Darkpig]

I tested the new build and I noticed I can struggle out of devices every time even though I locked it on my character. This may require more investigation.

[naaitsab]

Still getting the 'stuck animation' when the armbinder is removed.

Was with the black ebonite one from DDx, removal via dialogue and DCUR removal. Same effect. Also armbinder combat is stil enabled while the animation is stuck.

 

Running the latest build but didn't start a new game after the latest update.

[Princessity]

Still getting the 'stuck animation' when the armbinder is removed.

Was with the black ebonite one from DDx, removal via dialogue and DCUR removal. Same effect. Also armbinder combat is stil enabled while the animation is stuck.

 

Running the latest build but didn't start a new game after the latest update.

This really should be impossible. The AA evaluation should fire regardless of how the device is removed. It's literally in the same event that allows it to be unequipped in the first place.

 

What dialogue are you using by the by? We disabled the DDi one.

 

Anyways could you start a new game and check? And make double sure you're running the latest build? And post your papyrus log?

[naaitsab]

 

Still getting the 'stuck animation' when the armbinder is removed.

Was with the black ebonite one from DDx, removal via dialogue and DCUR removal. Same effect. Also armbinder combat is stil enabled while the animation is stuck.

 

Running the latest build but didn't start a new game after the latest update.

This really should be impossible. The AA evaluation should fire regardless of how the device is removed. It's literally in the same event that allows it to be unequipped in the first place.

 

What dialogue are you using by the by? We disabled the DDi one.

 

Anyways could you start a new game and check? And make double sure you're running the latest build? And post your papyrus log?

 

I think the dialogue was also from DCUR, not sure about that but the removal command was deffo from DCUR. The option to remove it via DDi dialogue is gone, I checked that.

AFAIK is the removal command just the regular device removal command that iterates all equipped items/tags so I don't think that should be an issue. But I don't know for sure as the Dcur beta for the new DD system isn't released yet. Maybe Kimy could determine if that could be the issue or not.

 

 

I started a new game with a fresh zip from DDi and DDx dev repro's yesterday evening (GMT) after the 'locks' update, replacing the existing beta, reran bodyslide and FNIS.

Log from new game (2 parts, don't know what you're searching for exactly):

https://pastebin.com/C796YtzV

[Kimy]

I tested the new build and I noticed I can struggle out of devices every time even though I locked it on my character. This may require more investigation.

 

I tested this and cannot confirm this. When I put devices on me, I can remove the manipulated ones right away, but not the properly locked ones, regardless in what order I equipped them.