Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[naaitsab]

 

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong or it's a bug on the new builds. I'm working on a set of 4 custom items (gloves, catsuit, heels/socks and a mask).

When I put on the mask and suit no message appears. And when clicking it again one of the options is 'put on' as it was not detected.

 

Make sure you are using the newest dev build. I fixed that bug yesterday or so.

 

A message should now appear for -every- item you equip from inventory.

 

Hmm, missed that one. Was messing about the entire day yesterday Will give it a try

 

E: The equiping works fine now but when worn the option does stil appear

 

 

Small teaser (without the gloves) started working on a "real" sexdoll mod

Needs some extra textures like nips the red "entrance" parts

[Aelie]

 

No... no no no, I need that step, it's the control group ^^

 

Could you try a different device and go through all the steps this time? A standard armbinder will do.

 

 

i think i reported that on the last page, its not that he skipped that step, its that there really is no option to remove the elbowbinder once you put it on!

 

 

once you put on the elbow binder, it doesnt seem to have any options to try and remove it when you click it again

 

http://i.imgur.com/gytYB3k.png

 

additionally, if you remove it via console, your arms will not go back to normal.

[stobor]

Played around a bit with the development build, especially the straitjackets.  A few notes and questions:

• with the removal of zbfWornGag keywords, gag sounds no longer play during sex (ZAP was providing them).  Known problem?
• are animation filters working?  I think I've seen some inappropriate anims with armbinders, but I wasn't watching the logs closely enough to tell if it tried to substitute a more appropriate one.
• the straitjacket seems to be working beautifully, and probably doesn't need any animation filters.  only a handful of animations (with her partner holding her arms) show obvious weirdness.  everything else just works.
• existing mods (DCUR, CD, etc.) tend to throw errors or just ignore the straitjacket and try to equip an armbinder.  that's not a surprise, but may be an unavoidable backward compatibility problem for DD-related mods that are no longer actively maintained.
• saw the same idle animation weirdness that others have reported, when an armbinder was removed by script.  I gather that's already being worked on.

I had some problems with the DDi config intialization, but I see Kimy posted some changes in that area after my snapshot.  So I won't revisit those until I've tried again with the latest.

 

Thx for all the hard work!

[Richard1234]

Only popped in here to say that I'm looking forward to the new DDI. Thanks everyone who is working on this!

[Veladarius]

Played around a bit with the development build, especially the straitjackets.  A few notes and questions:

• with the removal of zbfWornGag keywords, gag sounds no longer play during sex (ZAP was providing them).  Known problem?
• are animation filters working?  I think I've seen some inappropriate anims with armbinders, but I wasn't watching the logs closely enough to tell if it tried to substitute a more appropriate one.
• the straitjacket seems to be working beautifully, and probably doesn't need any animation filters.  only a handful of animations (with her partner holding her arms) show obvious weirdness.  everything else just works.
• existing mods (DCUR, CD, etc.) tend to throw errors or just ignore the straitjacket and try to equip an armbinder.  that's not a surprise, but may be an unavoidable backward compatibility problem for DD-related mods that are no longer actively maintained.
• saw the same idle animation weirdness that others have reported, when an armbinder was removed by script.  I gather that's already being worked on.

I had some problems with the DDi config intialization, but I see Kimy posted some changes in that area after my snapshot.  So I won't revisit those until I've tried again with the latest.

 

Thx for all the hard work!

 

I believe the straight jacket and some other items have new item keywords so mods not updated to use the beta version won't be able to detect or use them as the item keywords is one of the main thing used to detect, equip and remove items.

[stobor]

A second try confirmed my initialization problem with zadConfigQuest; many of the properties (in a brand new game) still had their CK defaults (false, 0, or 0.0) not their official MCM defaults (per the tooltips).  Most importantly, the event polling interval was 0.0, and if that wasn't corrected before DDi finished initializing (on first game load, after most other mods had been configured), it caused DDi to throw an error popup (claiming libs property was null, but looking at the code there are three possible conditions to throw that error - one of them being the polling interval).

 

This was easy to work around by manually setting the MCM fields to proper defaults prior to the first save game. 

 

I don't know how the zadConfigQuest is normally initialized (since the CK properties are mostly defaults as I mentioned); there may be an initialization race condition (if I'm the only one seeing this), or it could be a more straightforward bug.

One other minor nit: the open-top straitjacket hides nipple piercings, unless the device hider feature is disabled.  Don't know if that can readily be fixed or not.  Maybe there was a copy-paste error from the closed-top version.

[Kimy]

Played around a bit with the development build, especially the straitjackets.  A few notes and questions:

• with the removal of zbfWornGag keywords, gag sounds no longer play during sex (ZAP was providing them).  Known problem?

I tried to confirm this bug and couldn't. I have GagSFX installed, which DD assumes to have installed for gag sounds. Do you have that mod installed  as well?

 

• are animation filters working?  I think I've seen some inappropriate anims with armbinders, but I wasn't watching the logs closely enough to tell if it tried to substitute a more appropriate one.

I'd need details. The animation filter underwent massive changes.

• existing mods (DCUR, CD, etc.) tend to throw errors or just ignore the straitjacket and try to equip an armbinder.  that's not a surprise, but may be an unavoidable backward compatibility problem for DD-related mods that are no longer actively maintained.

Wrist restraints are quite honestly not -perfectly- backwards compatible. They used to have a separate keyword for each and every one of them, but we're keeping making new types of wrist restraints, so we decided to assign them all the SAME base keyword. Old school wrist restraints will still work the way they used to, but there might be oddities when dealing with the newer types (straitjackets, elbowbinders, BBYokes etc.). Updating older restraints will take seconds per item, but yes, it will ideally need to be done.

 

[stobor]

I did not have GagSFX installed (I removed it a long while back, as mostly redundant to DDi gag speech and ZAP SFX overrides).  If DDi is now reliant on it, that should be noted as (at least) a soft requirement when the dev version is released.  For now, that should fix my dev testing environment.

 

I'll try to come up with a reproducible problem (and log) for the filtering, once I'm done fiddling with new restraints.

 

Any thoughts on the zadConfigQuest init problem I ran into?  Or the device hider issue w/ open straitjackets?

[Kimy]

I did not have GagSFX installed (I removed it a long while back, as mostly redundant to DDi gag speech and ZAP SFX overrides).  If DDi is now reliant on it, that should be noted as (at least) a soft requirement when the dev version is released.  For now, that should fix my dev testing environment.

 

I'll try to come up with a reproducible problem (and log) for the filtering, once I'm done fiddling with new restraints.

 

Any thoughts on the zadConfigQuest init problem I ran into?  Or the device hider issue w/ open straitjackets?

 

It's not a dependency, but I have no clue how you got gagged sounds to work without it. I had no idea that other mods offer that functionality as well!

[stobor]

ZAP does have overlapping functionality (or did, when we had zbfWornGag keywords on things).  At least for the player character.

No matter, GagSFX works just fine.  I know it's not an actual dependency, but it probably merits some mention on the OP.

[Kimy]

ZAP does have overlapping functionality (or did, when we had zbfWornGag keywords on things).  At least for the player character.

No matter, GagSFX works just fine.  I know it's not an actual dependency, but it probably merits some mention on the OP.

 

I never noticed!

 

But yes, as we're about to cut dependency from ZAP, it's probably a good idea to mention that.

[Nazzzgul666]

I think i've read here or the DD thread about such a bug mentioned in the description of this mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/85251/?

I'd assume you're already aware of the solution used there, i just thought i'll drop that here in case it helps.

[Kimy]

I think i've read here or the DD thread about such a bug mentioned in the description of this mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/85251/?

I'd assume you're already aware of the solution used there, i just thought i'll drop that here in case it helps.

 

DDI does use the fixed SKSE function. At least I think we do in all placed. We will check to make sure.

[Nazzzgul666]

 

I think i've read here or the DD thread about such a bug mentioned in the description of this mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/85251/?

I'd assume you're already aware of the solution used there, i just thought i'll drop that here in case it helps.

 

DDI does use the fixed SKSE function. At least I think we do in all placed. We will check to make sure.

 

To be more clear: in my memory (i can't find it again right now, though) it was princessity who mentioned something like that, but i don't know if the bug she mentioned was "a problem we don't know yet how to solve" or "we forgot to use the known solution in this case". After your words i rather assume the latter and you can probably ignore my post.

[Guest]

EDIT:

 

I am dumb, looks like Kimy already added something for generic devices that basically addresses exactly this. Thanks Kimy!

 

I have a suggestion I think I saw briefly discussed previously, but I'd like to spell it out specifically in case it was misunderstood. Apologies if this was already discussed at any length.

 

It seems a major concern is:

 

1. Many mods (notably but not only CD) were built under the belief that the "customizability" property of generic devices was guaranteed by the framework.
    
2. That behavior is actually not guaranteed by the framework. So although the ability to equip/unequip those items will remain so that old mods won't break, the user experience for those old mods could be greatly affected if a key aspect of the user experience was the ability to customize the devices.
    
3. Although the dev team (very reasonably and graciously) is willing to accept community input on the value for those generics so that most users are happy, insofar as this customization aspect is part of the intended mod experience, the new API can't accommodate that.

 

Kimy mentioned in response to the possibility of a patch:

 

Do what you have to do, but just for the record, publishing a patch overriding framework assets is not ok. What you do in your own installation is obviously up to you.

 

This is very reasonable, because the framework needs to work in a way that is dependable and reliable. Letting different mods overwrite aspects of the framework can lead to mods not working as the modder intended, misplaced bug reports, general pain etc.

 

But I wonder, would the DD team (please ) consider providing very limited and specific permission to make a patch that does exactly the following:

1. Replicates the old options in a new MCM specific to the patch
    
2. Edits the generic items only to read their custom values from this MCM, and passes those values to the new API normally
    
3. Leaves the new API completely untouched
    

It seems to me that would solve most issues:

1. Users who want that patch retain all the customization power they had with the old generics, for the old generics. That way the user experience of mods relying on that customization will be restored.
    
2. The API portion of the framework, which makes guarantees about its behavior to other mods, remains unchanged. Mods relying on this behavior don't need to worry about the patch.
    
3. The generic devices, which do not make any guarantees about their behavior to other mods, are modified with the permission of their owners the DD dev team.

 

Of course if that's technically possible but permission isn't given, it would also be possible to make this functionally equivalent alternative:

1. Create a mod that recreates the old MCM
    
2. Duplicate all generic devices, but reading values from this MCM
    
3. Adds patches to all mods built on the old system to pull only from those devices created by the mod
    

Or as a second alternative, for each mod author who wants customized generics to build their own menu.

 

 

This would be a lot more work. So in this instance I think the community would really appreciate the limited permission to modify the items of the framework in the way described. It sounds like this would be a good compromise considering that it sounds like the direction of the framework will rely more on modders creating new devices with custom difficulties, and the generics are considered as more of a "demo" anyway.

[Guest]

I am experiences two issues:

 

1.) Bound combat animation

The animations don't work it allows you to go into a ready stance but you're unable to jump or kick.

 

2.) Armbinder MessageBox

When I select the armbinder that is not yet equipped in my inventory I get a MessageBox that has the options Take it off/Struggle, but when I select take it off it takes me to the MessageBox that should of shown up which is Put it on/Manipulate lock

 

NOTE: I'll also note that the previously incompatible TK Dodge is no longer incompatible with DD Bound combat thnx to fore.

[harakoni]

 

ZAP does have overlapping functionality (or did, when we had zbfWornGag keywords on things).  At least for the player character.

No matter, GagSFX works just fine.  I know it's not an actual dependency, but it probably merits some mention on the OP.

 

I never noticed!

 

But yes, as we're about to cut dependency from ZAP, it's probably a good idea to mention that.

 

 

The Zap gagged sounds only ever worked for the zap gags anyway, didn't work for any of the DD ones.

[Princessity]

New builds of DDi and DDx up on the repo, fixing several reported bugs:

• Wrist restraints should now once again properly unequip and reset their animations when removed via scripts (including dialogue)
• Straightjackets should now use armbinder AAs, including kicking in combat.
• Elbowbinder now has a more appropriate and functional (actually showing the escape button ^^) device manipulation menu. HOWEVER this change is not retroactive, you will need to toss any existing elbowbinders out of your inventory and spawn a new one!

[Princessity]

I am experiences two issues:

 

1.) Bound combat animation

The animations don't work it allows you to go into a ready stance but you're unable to jump or kick.

 

2.) Armbinder MessageBox

When I select the armbinder that is not yet equipped in my inventory I get a MessageBox that has the options Take it off/Struggle, but when I select take it off it takes me to the MessageBox that should of shown up which is Put it on/Manipulate lock

 

NOTE: I'll also note that the previously incompatible TK Dodge is no longer incompatible with DD Bound combat thnx to fore.

Oh thank you! I didn't know TK Dodge was updated, I'll need to test that.

 

Also, a lot of the changes we're making are not retroactively applied to existing item references due to engine limitations. Whenver a new build comes out, testers are advised to get rid of old devices and spawn new ones (the AddItemMenu mod which I assume everyone is using is very helpful for that purpose)

[Guest]

 

Oh thank you! I didn't know TK Dodge was updated, I'll need to test that.

 

Also, a lot of the changes we're making are not retroactively applied to existing item references due to engine limitations. Whenver a new build comes out, testers are advised to get rid of old devices and spawn new ones (the AddItemMenu mod which I assume everyone is using is very helpful for that purpose)

 

Oh ok yeah that makes alot of sense why it wasn't working ^^

 

TK Dodge is one of my favorites mods xD I probably have bugged the DD team enough about the incompatibility but to my surprise the new patch does fix the arms coming out of the armbinder while doing all actions.

 

If you wanna test the new TK Dodge you also have to redownload the patch on the FNIS page and select the patch before running FNIS I know that doens't really need to be said but I am saying it anyway 

[dnoah]

(Suggestion) With this new escape system in place, it might make sense to also implement a device escape critical failure debuff system, here on framework level. Meaning, instead of a jammed lock, some debuff could be applied to a wearer when she manages to screw up her device when attempting to escape. I.e. succeeding to escape from one bondage boot only could lead to diminished movement capabilities, messing with a corset or a collar could make them tighter and thus more debilitating, breaking one restrictive glove would mean some additional debuff when manual dexterity is involved, enchanted plugs could get some extra undesired properties. This can be hooked into "repair device" option, with successful repairs removing the extra debuff, but leaving a device locked on.

 

This would force the player to seriously consider attempting escape with unskilled character or in hostile environment, versus waiting for more favorable conditions.

[Kimy]

(Suggestion) With this new escape system in place, it might make sense to also implement a device escape critical failure debuff system, here on framework level. Meaning, instead of a jammed lock, some debuff could be applied to a wearer when she manages to screw up her device when attempting to escape. I.e. succeeding to escape from one bondage boot only could lead to diminished movement capabilities, messing with a corset or a collar could make them tighter and thus more debilitating, breaking one restrictive glove would mean some additional debuff when manual dexterity is involved, enchanted plugs could get some extra undesired properties. This can be hooked into "repair device" option, with successful repairs removing the extra debuff, but leaving a device locked on.

 

This would force the player to seriously consider attempting escape with unskilled character or in hostile environment, versus waiting for more favorable conditions.

 

Interesting idea! While changing the model depending on escape state (e.g. one boot off) might be a bit prohibitive in terms of development resources needed, the idea in general is nice! We'll consider it for sure!

[naaitsab]

Are there any plans to add effects to the plugs? They are in dire need of some love

I got some ideas for them:

-Tamper effect, when you tamper with a lock (lockpick could have different effects than escape) they could fire (vibration or shock).

-Power attack, similar to the mage plugs but for power attacks

-Ribbed plugs, when running they add arousal much faster.

-Cascading plugs, not like the soulgem 'creator' but something like a arousal building effect. It starts off easy but after a few activation it results in a maxium vibration, with selectable edge-only or the whole package.

[El_Duderino]

Just did some more testing with the latest dev builds of DDi/x. My reports below:

 

The New and Improved MCM

 

1) The new default settings make very much sense to me (particularly Leeches Mode as default and disabling Immersive First Person support and belly/breast node stuff by default).

 

2) Device Difficulty slider works fine in my opinion and does what it says on the label.

 

3) A brand new game start seems to be needed for all settings to take effect. Particularly the new device difficulty settings menu, which on an updated savegame reverts to the old key crafting difficulty settings no matter what I do with console start/stop/resetquest commands. The only way to change the difficulty for the devices on an old savegame seems to be the SetPQV command from the console (but at least works fine).

 

Wrist Restraints Device Test as requested by Princessity

 

Setup:

• Equip one of the wrist restraints (armbinder, elbowbinder, yoke or handcuffs)
• Struggle out of it (setting the difficulty level to "vanilla" in MCM helps with that, it practically guarantees escape)
• Next, re-equp the same device, find an NPC and ask them to free you (player.modav speechcraft 100 helps to guarantee that they will)
• Next, re-equip the same device, use DCL's debug "free me" function to remove it.
• Exit the game and attach your papyrus log here.

Results:

 

Using the "Can you help me?" NPC interaction did not remove the armbinder, struggling and using DCL's "free me" safeword worked fine though.

 

See log excerpt below. The bad stuff with the "can you help me" is happing on lines 430 ff.

 

I was using the Black Ebonite Armbinder from DDx for this.

 

Papyrus_DD-Armbinders2.log

[Princessity]

Thank you!

 

I was able to reproduce the issue with NPC dialogue and...

 

 

*cue the X-Files theme*

 

OKAY! This issue makes no sense so there's probably something I'm still missing. I knew I started celebrating too early. This will require further investigation.