HDT SMP for SSE?

[Vyxenne]

2 hours ago, SlitherHence said:

@Vyxenne & @XenoDrake

Thanks for the replies. I'll have to do some digging for them hairs... easier than converting them myself, I'm sure. At least I now know it's not a wild goose chase.

 

@Vyxenne

 

I see. That's where I got confused. I remember BBP from way back when... and mistakenly thought CBP was that. Given that my last performance test with my most recent MO profile netted me all of 17fps in the Bannered Mare... I think perhaps a little prudence might be in order. For now I've followed a very simple guide from somewhere about page 150 of this thread to get CBPC and HDT-SMP to coexist. Lo and behold my jugs do jiggle. Using it with CBBE since that gives me the greatest customization. I can certainly agree with CBPC being good enough. Still want them SMP hairs tho... using a short hair style for now because all the other hairs clip enough to annoy me.

Unfortunately, I didn't have SSE installed until the 21st. So I can't exactly "revert" to an older version that was never installed (unless I'm missing something?)... the only version that has ever been installed on this machine is 1.5.97. I had hoped there would be an option to select an older version under the beta menu like there is for Factorio... but no dice. Unless you are saying I still can some other way? Would be nifty. I do have auto-updating turned off. Hopefully next time I'll be able to avoid this problem.

Anyway.., thanks again.

The YunDao wigs and Dint999 Hair Pack wigs don't clip. YunDao is available on the Nexus; Dint999 is linked to here on LL.

 

You can install any version of SSE that you want to. See my mini-guide, ignore my "revert to" terminology and go browse the SteamDB link as mentioned. To install a non-current version that has never been installed on your machine, you will need to grab the executable and the core files (7+GB) which are in different depotIDs and may have different manifestIDs as well. You can also get any previous version of SKSE64 from its own page on Silverlock, under a separate "archives" link right under the link to the current version. You might have problems getting older versions of some of the mods you want to use, though- some mod authors hide/remove the older versions for some reason, possibly to lighten their support load.

 

Let me know if you can't find my mini-guide on reverting SSE (can't remember where I posted it) and I'll post it again here for you.

[degenernate]

7 hours ago, cminnow said:

I wouldn't expect an update at least for another week.

This is your bi-monthly Bethesda-fuckery reminder that if Hydrogen had released SMP's source code in March instead of maybe never we'd already have a new version.

[Guest]

CBBE

[cminnow]

  

2 hours ago, Kokan said:

CBBE

Looking good, Kokan. I'm actually going to be releasing a new UUNP XML that should be even better. I relaxed some constraints to allow more subtle motion and balanced it to avoid any ridiculous jiggling. I also noticed I could get away with much smaller margins which increased performance ~5-10 fps in general town situations. The last area I've been mulling over is whether to use body collisions or not. I had an epiphany when noticed that when female characters folded their arms, it led to boobs "sinking in" to the body. Adding self-body collisions fixed any problems like that and I think led to more believable motion. I know it's standard practice to avoid having a mesh collide with itself and I would have thought high poly bodies would have a high impact but I've noticed no obvious performance drop.

 

Do you have any opinions on enabling self-body collisions?

 

  

On 11/21/2019 at 11:35 AM, Lucifeller said:

Neat... I have a weakness for Bijin skin, but might have to switch to this one.

I personally like the realism of Leyenda skin with veins and slight skin defects. Too often realism is equated with ugly. Unfortunately, I believe it's unsupported for the newer body female parts and I have a problem with the skin iridescence at least with Intrigued ENB. Anyone know any similarly realistic (without being leathery) textures like Leyenda?

 

[SlitherHence]

13 hours ago, fritzfried said:

Hi SlitherH-

 

Since you're also using MO2, it's a good idea to make a mod out of the Data/Scripts folder and place it high in the left pane, right below all the DLC's.  To do this, use 7zip (get it, you'll need it again) to zip up just the Scripts folder [name it 'SKSE64 Data v2.0.16 for game 1.5.80' or some such] and then drop it into MO2's Downloads pane.  Install it like you would any other mod and then move it up high in the left pane.  It might be well to use the Manual install option to be sure you have the right folder level - it should be green 'Looks Good' on Scripts, not Data, you'll see.

 

Thanks for the advice. ? I've actually been doing it that way since way back when Mod Organizer was new. I only wish the files above the data folder could be managed together with the data files. Seems like I once found a hacky way to accomplish that... but I sure don't remember it. Hmmm... I wonder...

A tip to simplify adding the SKSE scripts to MO that avoids the 7zip dependency and the need to re-compress the skse data... simply start an installation of the skse 7z file direct from the skse site. MO will open the manual install pane because it cant figure out the folder structure. You can then simply right click on the Data folder and click "Set data directory" then finish the mod install like normal. Then open the 7z file separately (i use winrar) and extract just the .dlls like you said before.

@Vyxenne

 

Thanks for the tip on the hairs. My earlier searches did not turn those up but I was able to find them by name. Of course, they CTD with the current SMP and Skyrim. ::pokes Hydrogen with a really long stick::

 

I couldn't find a guide with your name on it (well... for this at least), but I did find this. Sound about right?

[Beef Cheeks]

20 minutes ago, SlitherHence said:

I couldn't find a guide with your name on it (well... for this at least), but I did find this. Sound about right?

Yes that is the method @Vyxenne is referring to. 1.5.80 was released on June 13, 2019, which is what I would go for.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cminnow said:

  

Looking good, Kokan. I'm actually going to be releasing a new UUNP XML that should be even better. I relaxed some constraints to allow more subtle motion and balanced it to avoid any ridiculous jiggling. I also noticed I could get away with much smaller margins which increased performance ~5-10 fps in general town situations. The last area I've been mulling over is whether to use body collisions or not. I had an epiphany when noticed that when female characters folded their arms, it led to boobs "sinking in" to the body. Adding self-body collisions fixed any problems like that and I think led to more believable motion. I know it's standard practice to avoid having a mesh collide with itself and I would have thought high poly bodies would have a high impact but I've noticed no obvious performance drop.

 

Do you have any opinions on enabling self-body collisions?

 

  

I personally like the realism of Leyenda skin with veins and slight skin defects. Too often realism is equated with ugly. Unfortunately, I believe it's unsupported for the newer body female parts and I have a problem with the skin iridescence at least with Intrigued ENB. Anyone know any similarly realistic (without being leathery) textures like Leyenda?

 

maybe an animation correction should be done?

 

 

[cminnow]

1 hour ago, Kokan said:

maybe an animation correction should be done?

Is that with body collisions on? It looks like the collisions are a little too stiff in the video. Could you make a video of this test version too? I don't really have a lot of posing tools and your videos make good comparisons.

UUNP.xml

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cminnow said:

Is that with body collisions on? It looks like the collisions are a little too stiff in the video. Could you make a video of this test version too? I don't really have a lot of posing tools and your videos make good comparisons.

UUNP.xml 9.09 kB · 2 downloads

this is my cbbe follower, uunp xml will not work with it

[cminnow]

28 minutes ago, Kokan said:

this is my cbbe follower, uunp xml will not work with it

Oh, the latest CBBE SMP with self-body collisions?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, cminnow said:

Oh, the latest CBBE SMP with self-body collisions?

works with uunp 3BBB smp, i only changed CBBE xml settings

[capitanohook]

for the news of HDT-SMP update  https://www.reddit.com/r/modpiracy/comments/dzydfi/skyrim_se_latest_version_of_hdt_smp_1597/

 

[Temphyx]

8 hours ago, SlitherHence said:

 

Thanks for the advice. ? I've actually been doing it that way since way back when Mod Organizer was new. I only wish the files above the data folder could be managed together with the data files. Seems like I once found a hacky way to accomplish that... but I sure don't remember it. Hmmm... I wonder...

A tip to simplify adding the SKSE scripts to MO that avoids the 7zip dependency and the need to re-compress the skse data... simply start an installation of the skse 7z file direct from the skse site. MO will open the manual install pane because it cant figure out the folder structure. You can then simply right click on the Data folder and click "Set data directory" then finish the mod install like normal. Then open the 7z file separately,

 

(i use winrar) ...

"Say no more,sir, say no more..."  Although I'm not quite sure what you intend with: "wish the files above the data folder could be managed" (by MO2?),  I am pleased to see you're on top of these things.   I'm equally impressed with the fact you've never had to roll back an update.  Cheers, sir.

 

Re smp wigs, and you have probably already discovered this:  the otherwise excellent Yundao and dint999 collections have problematic xmls.  A simple way to reduce (but not eliminate) erratic hair behaviors under SMP is to apply a wig you like, walk around a bit, then close the game and look at the hdt SMP Log mod which, I am sure, you have already created from your Overwrite folder.   The log will likely show the line numbers for errors involving bones that are referred to in the xml files but do not exist in the .nif files.  Opening the xmls and commenting out the problematic lines can calm your game and improve your fps.  I really only mention this for others, since I'm sure any winRAR man such as yourself has already crossed this bridge, perhaps twice.

 

All the best on the update,

[solovape11]

hey what up everyone, i'm seeming to have a problem with the breasts, for example it looks as if there pushed back into the body, its happening with SMP and CBPC, the physics work but shape of it looking so inverted is not normal. ive already updated SKSE and update/reset the XP32 Skeleton Extended, and body slide seems to be also normal as well. Any idea's?

[SlitherHence]

@fritzfried

 

Like the skse exe and DLLs that you place in `<whatever>/Skyrim Special Edition`. It'd be nice if I didn't have to manually manage those files to keep them synced with whatever is in the `/Data/SKSE` folder. Never mind ENB files and the like.

 

And, no, I must admit I've not yet heard about this detail with the xmls in those hair/wig packs. That's definitely useful info though. Once I have SMP actually working I'll take a look at doing that. Thanx again.

[Vyxenne]

22 hours ago, fritzfried said:

 the otherwise excellent Yundao and dint999 collections have problematic xmls.  A simple way to reduce (but not eliminate) erratic hair behaviors under SMP is to apply a wig you like, walk around a bit, then close the game and look at the hdt SMP Log mod which, I am sure, you have already created from your Overwrite folder.   The log will likely show the line numbers for errors involving bones that are referred to in the xml files but do not exist in the .nif files.  Opening the xmls and commenting out the problematic lines can calm your game and improve your fps.

Firstly, I am not defensive of the YunDao xml's- I know only too well that many of them are pretty bad.

 

That said, have you actually tested and quantified any significant fps gain and or reduction of jitters/unruly hair with null-reference bones removed from the wig's xml? An SMP expert told me a year or so ago that the SMP engine ignores null references- for example, declaring "LongDong-A-DingDongDoodle.xml" in DefaultBBPs.xml when (of course) no such xml exists is ignored by the system and causes no issues. The subject under discussion was whether it mattered whether we disabled a specific Body Physics function by commenting out the reference to that xml in DefaultBBPs.xml or by renaming/deleting the xml, leaving the invalid reference in DefaultBBPs.xml.

 

Of course, wig physics is cloth physics, not body physics, and missing bones in an item's xml is not the same as an entire declared xml being nonexistent, so maybe it depends on the specific kind of null reference as to how SMP engine reacts. Or maybe my friend is/was mistaken. Or maybe I misunderstood what he said. But still I'd like to hear more about this if you have time.

[Ultralazuli]

what's really strange is that Schlongs SE with the SMP add-on seems to work with 1.5.80 HDTSMP, but nothing CBBE or bodyslide does. I've updated everything short of deleting and reinstalling every mod. I'm not sure why CBBE and CBBESMP won't work, but maybe it's just my imagination?

[Guest]

Don't know what people expect? of course SMP consumes resources, it will not run on air, anyone who is worried about fps should avoid any physics.

SMP is currently the pinnacle of physics, there is nothing that can realistically evoke physics in the game, it is not a mere hair flutter but a series of complex parameters that interact with other objects that have the same or even physics that is a different type like CBPC.

 

[badboyqq]

7 hours ago, solovape11 said:

hey what up everyone, i'm seeming to have a problem with the breasts, for example it looks as if there pushed back into the body, its happening with SMP and CBPC, the physics work but shape of it looking so inverted is not normal. ive already updated SKSE and update/reset the XP32 Skeleton Extended, and body slide seems to be also normal as well. Any idea's?

install XPMSSE CBPC Patch, links:https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1988?tab=files

[Jay1646]

Has anyone (who has the latest skyrim update, and all other updates for 3bbb to work) notice that the breasts aren't as "fluid" anymore??

 

Like they bounce and jiggle, but it's nothing like before the update... 

 

Are there like bounce presets I can use?? and if so can someone point some out??

 

Thanks I'm still all new to this

[Witcher_Rising]

I haven't played SSE since the update. Did it break SMP?

[Temphyx]

15 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

Firstly, I am not defensive of the YunDao xml's- I know only too well that many of them are pretty bad.

 

That said, have you actually tested and quantified any significant fps gain and or reduction of jitters/unruly hair with null-reference bones removed from the wig's xml? An SMP expert told me a year or so ago that the SMP engine ignores null references- for example, declaring "LongDong-A-DingDongDoodle.xml" in DefaultBBPs.xml when (of course) no such xml exists is ignored by the system and causes no issues. The subject under discussion was whether it mattered whether we disabled a specific Body Physics function by commenting out the reference to that xml in DefaultBBPs.xml or by renaming/deleting the xml, leaving the invalid reference in DefaultBBPs.xml.

 

Of course, wig physics is cloth physics, not body physics, so maybe those rules are different. Or maybe my friend is/was mistaken. Or maybe I misunderstood what he said. But still I'd like to hear more about this if you have time.

An excellent question, I had not.   So, I went back and did a FRAP min/max/avg in an interior space, solo PC, using dint's now famous hair16, on a new game profile that follows Kokan's Data screenshots as best I am able.   It appears to me your friend (perhaps Gromilla?) is correct, there was no significant framerate difference between using the original xml and the cleaned version.  To my eye, perhaps subject to confirmation bias, it appears the wig is somewhat better behaved with the cleaned xml.   You can be the judge on that.

 

I'm not wedded to frame rates by any means, but there are few benchmarks short of stutter - and stutter makes me think of seizures, we hates it. 

The build mentioned above is set up to keep an empty Qverwrite folder, it includes CBPC and is quite playable.  It does not, however, include good collisions on all body parts - the hunt goes on.

 

hair16.xml

[Vyxenne]

Thanks for the "cleaned" Dint Hair16 xml, I'll try it after I slog through my daily grind of followed threads here and on the Nexus.

1 hour ago, fritzfried said:

there are few benchmarks short of stutter - and stutter makes me think of seizures, we hates it.

I didn't mean low-fps stutter (the infamous "slideshow.") I meant jittery hair, especially noticeable with huge, bouffant styles like Merida Hair, where the hair just trembles a bit (at a solid 60fps) while the character stands still in an isolated indoor location. We had body jitters with previous versions of SMP (unrelated to low fps) but I think the 1.5.80 version eliminated most of it. I hope I'm defining my understanding of "jitters" vs. "stutters" clearly.

[Temphyx]

43 minutes ago, Vyxenne said:

 I hope I'm defining my understanding of "jitters" vs. "stutters" clearly.

Yes, yes, my bad.

[SlitherHence]

16 hours ago, Kokan said:

Don't know what people expect? of course SMP consumes resources, it will not run on air, anyone who is worried about fps should avoid any physics.

SMP is currently the pinnacle of physics, there is nothing that can realistically evoke physics in the game, it is not a mere hair flutter but a series of complex parameters that interact with other objects that have the same or even physics that is a different type like CBPC.

 

::Gasp:: Such passion.

Is there something special I need to get logging from smp? I reverted back to 1.5.80, SKSE64 back to 2.0.16, and every mod that has an SKSE plugin back to matching versions, However, while everything else seems to be working fine SMP is still giving me a bit of trouble. dint999' wigs give me an apparently hairless head and Yunado still CTD's the moment I try to select one of those hairs in Racemenu. And there's nothing in the `hdtSSEFramework.log` or `hdtSSEPhysics.log`. I mean nothing... not a single line of text. Ideas?