Tannin42 - the new head developer of NMM

[Kimy]

I don't consider it to be of not any importance or least, but if in general I had to choose, I would say Mod Organizer is more appreciated for the VFS than anything else. In fact, I would believe it would be VFS, the Mod List on the left pane and then maybe profiles. The ability to keep your data folder completely clean from mod installation and then the ability to see and control your overwrites seems like it would be much more important than profiles.

 

That's interesting, because profiles is the only actual use-case for VFS. Without them, the question of keeping clean your Data folder or not is completely and utterly meaningless. If you don't use profiles, it doesn't matter if the files go directly into your Data folder. Really not.

[Guest enip]

I should of elaborated more on what I was really referring to when I was saying it's the least importance. It was pretty much what lordkabal was talking about using profiles to create multiple setups for certain characters and their enabled mods for different style playthroughs. In that sense I don't think most people really would put that feature before the others I've mentioned. And yes, you are right. VFS is tied to profile  I take blame for not being more specific on what I was talking about.

[afa]

I thought it is for so I can toss a bunch of mods in at once and see where the conflicts are and decide which one I want to be overwriting the rest and if that doesn't work I can switch their order on a whim and relaunch again. Or if I remove the mod that is overwriting everything the next in line will takes its place automatically and it won't just be an empty void and I have to refill it by looking for what used to go there.

[PsychoMachina]

 

I don't consider it to be of not any importance or least, but if in general I had to choose, I would say Mod Organizer is more appreciated for the VFS than anything else. In fact, I would believe it would be VFS, the Mod List on the left pane and then maybe profiles. The ability to keep your data folder completely clean from mod installation and then the ability to see and control your overwrites seems like it would be much more important than profiles.

 

That's interesting, because profiles is the only actual use-case for VFS. Without them, the question of keeping clean your Data folder or not is completely and utterly meaningless. If you don't use profiles, it doesn't matter if the files go directly into your Data folder. Really not.

 

 

VFS is very useful even without profiles.  Mods are installed in their own folders and can be removed without borking and leaving behind orphan files or removing the wrong files, reasons for why I stopped using NMM years ago.  Conflicts, bugs, crashing can sometimes be fixed simply by manipulating the mod order as well as the load order, all without literally having to uninstall/reinstall files over and over again.  Overwrites are done without literally overwriting files.  Mods, onced installed, can be added or removed from the game simply by checking or unchecking that mod on the list.  

[Rebel Marauder]

So much animosity in one thread, such a shame.

[OrcishOatmeal]

I can see the only way this will work is if there is some sort of NMM 'Advanced mode' that will just open up a MO window...

[Saeros]

maybe we can see NNM get out of "permanent beta"...

[27X]

So much animosity in one thread, such a shame.

 

Tends to happen when your mod overlord is polarized and the mod program he espouses does not in fact work, particularly in the "uninstall" department.

 

What mods you install and why you install them should never ever be a concern on the person whom holds the keys to the kingdom, and if your views or ______ or whatever don't agree with his/hers, that should never matter with this kind of software.

 

Tannin sounds as neutral as ever now, it'll be rather interesting to see what he sounds like in a year after working with the Circus Politicus.

[DoctaSax]

Back to our regular programming...

[Guest]

Guys.
Keep the tones down and do not insult anybody.

[darkconsole]

 

 

I don't consider it to be of not any importance or least, but if in general I had to choose, I would say Mod Organizer is more appreciated for the VFS than anything else. In fact, I would believe it would be VFS, the Mod List on the left pane and then maybe profiles. The ability to keep your data folder completely clean from mod installation and then the ability to see and control your overwrites seems like it would be much more important than profiles.

 

That's interesting, because profiles is the only actual use-case for VFS. Without them, the question of keeping clean your Data folder or not is completely and utterly meaningless. If you don't use profiles, it doesn't matter if the files go directly into your Data folder. Really not.

 

Speak for yourself, not me.

 

 

profiles were never even fully working for MO2. saves still still went to ~\Documents\My Games, configs still loaded from there as well.

 

profiles were also janky in MO not 2. quite often id see my saves go to the wrong [previous] profile after switching profiles. such that i more or less gave up on profiles and the one called "Vanilla Game" ended up being "all my shit"

 

here is to hoping the resulting app is the best parts of everything and not the worst parts.

[RitualClarity]

 

I don't consider it to be of not any importance or least, but if in general I had to choose, I would say Mod Organizer is more appreciated for the VFS than anything else. In fact, I would believe it would be VFS, the Mod List on the left pane and then maybe profiles. The ability to keep your data folder completely clean from mod installation and then the ability to see and control your overwrites seems like it would be much more important than profiles.

 

That's interesting, because profiles is the only actual use-case for VFS. Without them, the question of keeping clean your Data folder or not is completely and utterly meaningless. If you don't use profiles, it doesn't matter if the files go directly into your Data folder. Really not.

 

 

You are missing the point about VFS. It also allows in MO the flexibility of installation and easy of changing the order of mod installations on the fly. This is incredibly useful. Added to that the easy to view conflicts can allow someone newer to modding to see what is causing problems with a mod they are having a problem with and move it up or down the list on the fly and then test.

 

I liked the profile system pretty dam much and I would say it is a feature in demand considering the NMM team decided to try to put it into the current version of NMM . So that is important to many people Now I don't use profiles but still greatly appreciate the VFS system and how it handles the mod installations. Frankly I can go in to the mod folder in MO and open the files up and make changes, view what assets are there and even yes.. install directly into MO by dragging and dropping the extracted folder directly into MO's mod folder. I do this for TTW. It takes me a grand total of 3~6 minutes to upgrade to a new version of TTW, as I don't have to create a FMOD Lovely.

 

However... you are correct as it doesn't really matter if a manager directly installs the mods into the game folder or not. It really doesn't matter. You don't have to keep a game folder clean. For years this wasn't done. It is a preference. A very popular preference with many MO users and even with those that like what NMM is currently doing. Which wouldn't have been moving to that direction if it wasn't a feature in high demand

 

For those that don't think this  is a case. Kimy is an advanced user like me. Perhaps even more so. Advanced users and even savy mod users understand how to handle any problems with the data folder. Open your mod manager.. use the Uninstall all feature (most managers have for this purpose) then open the Data folder and/or Main folder (for any cleaning of SKSE, XXedit etc) Then just delete the loose files.. and any esm/BSA that isn't part of the original game etc. Most of us know what is suppose to be there. If in doubt delete it. Then start Steam and Verify cache. It takes a few seconds to a minute to do on a decent internet connection,  and you have a clean folder again. The users of  a direct mod installer like old NMM, FOMM, OBBM etc just go in and install the mods in proper order so that the last ones installed overwrite the files they want overwrtitten. It can take a bit of time to do this but if the manager is doing its job properly there should be very rare situations that require a cleaning of the data folder. 

 

It is that simple. So those that prefer direct access to the Data folder isn't some insane in the membrane person. they just don't care and can easily resolve any issues that arise.

 

I had to do this very thing using NMM for Fallout 4 when NMM crashed with a mod. When installing it again when it wasn't suppose to have any files there.. it gave a conflict warning asking if I wanted to overwrite. Easy way to tell if your game folder is dirty or not. Conflicts... are a bit harder.. You have to really pay attention however. Many times it is armors or a script. If something don't work correctly.. just open up NMM or like manager and reinstall a mod. YOu will get the list of conflicts you can review as you reinstall the mod. Fixing the order of installations is easy going old school. Just install the more broad mods.. then the mods you want to win the conflict over them. If you make a mistake just reinstall the mods in a different order. Convenient as MO.. no.. but no way worse. It is just an approach to how you want your modding to flow.

 

I prefer MO very much. I like the flow of work that it gives me. I also strongly advise many to give it a try if they have to rebuild their game and have the time and patience to give it a really good serious attempt. There are good resources that can give you a great step forward to get MO setup properly. However there are situations like my use in Fallout 4 and many of my RL friends in life that actually prefer NMM and its more direct approach. Some have no time or patience for learning a new system of modding. For those times I strongly recommend use of NMM or your current favorite manager.

 

It isn't about VFS or not VFS.. It is about the mod work flow and how the user wants to handle it. It is all about finding the right tools to do the job. Nothing more. Those that like one process or tool over another isn't any different from someone that likes pepperoni and mushrooms or the person that wants sausage and anchovies on their pizza. It is all about taste and preference provided the manager actually does the job of installing and uninstalling the mods properly (for the majority of the time. Even MO crashed and dumped some files in my FNV data folder once.

 

Now about Tanning and working at the Nexus. Some are worried about the VFS system if gets included in the manager or not. Does it really matter if the manager works.. maintains the same simple work flow as the current NMM? In other words seamless. Does it matter? Worrying about that.. is like you worrying about which version of extraction software they use in the manager to extract your compressed mods to install them

 

 

 

 

[Huma]

Would it work, cause i can't use MO well, and NMM is so much easier to use.

[RitualClarity]

Would it work, cause i can't use MO well, and NMM is so much easier to use.

If Dark One carries through  with what he states in the article about this..whatever the new NMM is going to be it will be simple and easy to use. I believe this part of the article. NMM has always been developed to be as simple as possible for their users or at least as simple or more simple (according to some than MO) This is the reason that I believe it will be a simple to use mod manager.

[Huma]

someone moved my quote what i was asking was can one use both NMM and MO at the same time. Cause MNN is simpler but people say are saying some mods won't work without MO.

[Guest]

someone moved my quote what i was asking was can one use both NMM and MO at the same time. Cause MNN is simpler but people say are saying some mods won't work without MO.

 

No, you cannot do it.

You need to choose one.

 

Sorry if the post was removed, probably it was in the middle of the drama posts that were removed.

[RitualClarity]

someone moved my quote what i was asking was can one use both NMM and MO at the same time. Cause MNN is simpler but people say are saying some mods won't work without MO.

 

 

 

someone moved my quote what i was asking was can one use both NMM and MO at the same time. Cause MNN is simpler but people say are saying some mods won't work without MO.

 

No, you cannot do it.

You need to choose one.

 

Sorry if the post was removed, probably it was in the middle of the drama posts that were removed.

 

CPU is correct... to a point... it shouldn't be used together at any time. Considering you have to ask if it can.. means you are at a level that you shouldn't .

 

You shouldn't use mod managers together as they will not know what each other is doing. That is the general rule.

[vsuamier]

Keep calm people..

 

My background: Modding Skyrim since 2012, in the beginning manually as NMM never really worked for me (crashes). After the usual "drama" I looked for a tool supporting manual installation. I came across MO but did not like the VS filesystem at that time apart from being far too complicated to use it. The long learning curve kept me from using it. However I think the concepts are outstanding. It just would need to be easy and more intuitive to use.

 

I now use TMM (nobody mentioned it here.. seems to be really not well-known), a successor of OBMM. TesModManager was stable and intuitive to use and had the big advantage to easily detect mod conflicts (and allow overwrite) even with multiple conflict. Uninstall working too in this regard (so no overwritten files are deleted). With SaveTool + Uninstall I was even able to replace some mods without needing to create a new game. Many issues have been fixed in the past and I think it is the best NMM alternative available (i.e. it can replace it completely, i.e. when you click on a link it uses TMM to download the mod). Also it supported BOSS and nowadays LOOT for automatic sorting. Manual sorting can be done too if needed (FOMOD work too of course).

 

Concerning the NeMO (or whatever we want it will be called) development I hope for two things after having read all 6 pages of discussion:

 

1) Please open up development now, even if only for passive influence on the roadmap (and that needs to be published too). I will try to address that in my own way to the developers (I'm professional HMI developer).

 

2) Get involved. All of you. Tell them your sorrow about the future modding organizing tool of Nexus. Or at least try to invite them to this thread. Are they aware how much you here (at LL!) are concerned about the future Nexus Modding Organizer ? I was really surprised.

 

I think LL is a perfect platform for early-release and testing, however I don't expect that in this case it will be used (for obvious reasons). But at least I hope there will be some development discussion that the developers will be aware of.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention that TMM also checks that you have the latest SKSE.

[Guest enip]

I really will never understand why people say MO needs to be made easier. MO shouldn't be treated any different then learning how to mod. If you aren't willing to invest the time and effort, it's not for you. That's how it's always been with modding. But people want to simplify things for people because they are lazy to make the effort to learn. When I first picked up MO years ago, it was intimidating and I quickly found myself closing MO and losing enthusiasm. Same thing with FNIS. But it was my fault. I wasn't willing to make the effort. It was easier for me to just give up. So, if you aren't willing to put the effort, MO is not for you.

[vsuamier]

I really will never understand why people say MO needs to be made easier. MO shouldn't be treated any different then learning how to mod. If you aren't willing to invest the time and effort, it's not for you. That's how it's always been with modding. But people want to simplify things for people because they are lazy to make the effort to learn. When I first picked up MO years ago, it was intimidating and I quickly found myself closing MO and losing enthusiasm. Same thing with FNIS. But it was my fault. I wasn't willing to make the effort. It was easier for me to just give up. So, if you aren't willing to put the effort, MO is not for you.

 

Actually I assumed that you already know the modding basics before starting using a tool like NMM, TMM or MO. I'm willing to learn (I always do) but if a tool is not in some way intuitive to learn (if you know the basics) then it will not attract the audience it is made for. I have not looked at MO for some time but if I interpret you correctly MO is still to hard to use for those people it was made for. I find that a disappointing weakness for such a great tool.

[27X]

 

someone moved my quote what i was asking was can one use both NMM and MO at the same time. Cause MNN is simpler but people say are saying some mods won't work without MO.

 

 

 

someone moved my quote what i was asking was can one use both NMM and MO at the same time. Cause MNN is simpler but people say are saying some mods won't work without MO.

 

No, you cannot do it.

You need to choose one.

 

Sorry if the post was removed, probably it was in the middle of the drama posts that were removed.

 

CPU is correct... to a point... it shouldn't be used together at any time. Considering you have to ask if it can.. means you are at a level that you shouldn't .

 

You shouldn't use mod managers together as they will not know what each other is doing. That is the general rule.

 

 

MO and wrye bash really don't conflict; MO to assemble and submod mods, wrye to streamline and patch.

 

Prevents a shit ton of potential conflicts.

[Guest enip]

 

I really will never understand why people say MO needs to be made easier. MO shouldn't be treated any different then learning how to mod. If you aren't willing to invest the time and effort, it's not for you. That's how it's always been with modding. But people want to simplify things for people because they are lazy to make the effort to learn. When I first picked up MO years ago, it was intimidating and I quickly found myself closing MO and losing enthusiasm. Same thing with FNIS. But it was my fault. I wasn't willing to make the effort. It was easier for me to just give up. So, if you aren't willing to put the effort, MO is not for you.

 

Actually I assumed that you already know the modding basics before starting using a tool like NMM, TMM or MO. I'm willing to learn (I always do) but if a tool is not in some way intuitive to learn (if you know the basics) then it will not attract the audience it is made for. I have not looked at MO for some time but if I interpret you correctly MO is still to hard to use for those people it was made for. I find that a disappointing weakness for such a great tool.

 

 

All you have to do is if you feel you are stuck but are willing to learn, the best thing you could do is ask the community. There are people out there happy to help who know and will show you the ropes, if you are willing to ask.

 

But I cannot agree with some of the things you say. Because Mod Organizer on Nexus has a tab with videos tutorials in there. And there are also some that aren't on there. Gopher has covered Mod Organizer from start to finish as much as he has for Nexus Mod Manager. If you are willing to watch them, they are worthwhile and will get you started.

[RitualClarity]

 

 

someone moved my quote what i was asking was can one use both NMM and MO at the same time. Cause MNN is simpler but people say are saying some mods won't work without MO.

 

 

 

someone moved my quote what i was asking was can one use both NMM and MO at the same time. Cause MNN is simpler but people say are saying some mods won't work without MO.

 

No, you cannot do it.

You need to choose one.

 

Sorry if the post was removed, probably it was in the middle of the drama posts that were removed.

 

CPU is correct... to a point... it shouldn't be used together at any time. Considering you have to ask if it can.. means you are at a level that you shouldn't .

 

You shouldn't use mod managers together as they will not know what each other is doing. That is the general rule.

 

 

MO and wrye bash really don't conflict; MO to assemble and submod mods, wrye to streamline and patch.

 

Prevents a shit ton of potential conflicts.

 

Yes.. however you aren't installing mods with both MO and Wyre Bash.. you are using MO to manage the mods and installation and Wyre Bash to optimize and create patches..

 

You are using Wyre Bash through MO and the results of the streamline and patches drop in the overwrite mod and then are added to MO because MO is managing the actual mods being used in the game.

 

At least that is the prescribed method I have heard for Wyre Bash and MO.

 

I understood the question as using both mod managers at the same time besides each other. (some mods here in NMM and others there in MO) Using Wyre Bash in the way I believe you are mentioning (correct me if I am wrong) is so that you use the tools of Bash. It would be similar to using xEdit to create a merged patch or editing and having the results drop into the overwrite folder. Wyre bash isn't actually installing the mods only working the mods it finds that MO installed. (when running through MO)

 

True separate management of mods would mean the records of the installation and conflicts would be held in two different places and make it pretty dam close to impossible to properly remove mods as records of some of the mods wouldn't be there.

 

An example is using FOMM for those HUD mods before the mod came out that made that un-necessary. I would use FOMM through MO.. Install the HUD mods I wanted then close down FOMM and have the files inside the overwrite mod. From there create the proper mod and click to activate it. This worked because MO managed the manager and the resultant files. However it completely screwed up FOMM and its records of installation and created errors inside of FOMM. The same would occur if someone wanted to do the same using NMM through MO. NMM would throw a shit fit.

[zzz72w3r]

I really will never understand why people say MO needs to be made easier. MO shouldn't be treated any different then learning how to mod. If you aren't willing to invest the time and effort, it's not for you. That's how it's always been with modding. But people want to simplify things for people because they are lazy to make the effort to learn. When I first picked up MO years ago, it was intimidating and I quickly found myself closing MO and losing enthusiasm. Same thing with FNIS. But it was my fault. I wasn't willing to make the effort. It was easier for me to just give up. So, if you aren't willing to put the effort, MO is not for you.

 

I started with manual installation and soon realized I had to learn the folder structures.  Once I figure that out I don't need nor want virtual folders and the additional efforts needed to manage them.  Hence personally the old NMM is preferred over MO.  I am perfectly capable of using MO but chose not to because for me it is a clear case of more is not better. 

 

Personally such prejudice of equating MO with some kind of superior qualification of playing with mods is one of the biggest turnoffs of the MO user base.  It's rare now but such attitude used to infest the help threads all over LL as NMM users were basically told switch to MO or else with total disregard of their problems. 

 

[Guest]

 

Personally such prejudice of equating MO with some kind of superior qualification of playing with mods is one of the biggest turnoffs of the MO user base.  It's rare now but such attitude used to infest the help threads all over LL as NMM users were basically told switch to MO or else with total disregard of their problems. 

 

 

Fanboys are fanboys, my friend.

No matter what the argument is.

 

I am looking forward to seeing what Tannin will do in 3 months.

 

And I am curious because I do use MO for creating and testing mods (Skyrim)

I use NMM for a couple of other games (FO4 and Witcher.)

And some other modding tools/mod managers for other games that are not really supported by NMM.

 

Keep in mind that NMM is not just for Skyrim. While MO was pretty much only for Skyrim.

And the new "baby" probably will support more games.