[mod] [CK2] Dark World Reborn: Toska (Submod)

[DocToska]

If you'd like, I might be able to throw together a few options for some regular, as well as exotic (or even super-exotic, like elf/orc/angel/whatever slaves based on content enable/disable rules) options to be purchased that you could plug into a script.

 

That is, I tossed a few together quickly for my own use, and would be happy to provide those if you like. You'd probably want to expand/change/adapt them, of course, but it might save some time.

 

Oh yes, please. I would really appreciate that.

 

FWIW: I just played around with missions and targeted decissions for the new order. I've not yet come very far as extending them to multi-panel events with choices isn't as straightforward as I had hoped. But I'll see what I can come up with in the next few days.

 

[Aliris]

Sure thing. Let me finish debugging the stuff I wrote up and I'll send you what I've got. I wrote it up to use the DW portraits as a dependency, which I don't think is your current default for the mod - but that's easily fixed by taking the portrait references out.

[penzor]

The stuff mentioned here is exciting!

[DocToska]

The more I look at the society missions that are already there, the more in awe I am with Paradox. That's some pretty cool stuff they did there with the scripting engine. So I started to wonder what specific missions and/or abilities for a Lilith secret order might be. At the end it will not be that different from the satanists, though. Just with a bit more flesh, gore and people going out on a bang but a whimper.

 

The thing is: Some of the initial stuff in that regards will duplicate what this mod already provides: At rank 1 of being a member of the order you get two abilities:

• Initiate a Virgin: Seduce a virgin of the opposite sex and make him/her acquainted with what pleasure lilith holds. Sort of seduction event with a chance of failure that (if all goes well) brings up the usual triple choice panel for consensual sex. At the end of it there is a good chance the "victim" gains the trait lilith or incubus depending on gender.
• Sacrifice to Lilith: Sacrifice a prisoner of the opposite sex to Lilith by shagging the life-forces out of them. Keeping the dark tone of my mod: This has consequences. The victim was in your prison and died and din't simply vanish. So aside from drawing attention to your moonlighting activities it will piss off their relatives.

I got these two more or less complete. Aside from some small things such as side effects and eye candy they're not too different from the "comming of age" events or "DWT: Rape Prisoner". Which makes me wonder if I shouldn't simply take "DWT: Raper Courtier" and "DWT: Rape Prisoner" away. Like only making them available by default if someone doesn't have "Monks and Mystics", but aside from that make them require society rank #1 (for prisoner) and rank #2 (for courtier). I may leave them in for now, as there are differences, though.

 

I'm basing my stuff for the Lilith order a bit on the general outline of the satanists,. So there will be some overlap in certain areas with some of the lesser missions such as "desecrate temple/church", although I'll try to flesh these out a bit, too.

 

All in all: This will require some time as it's pretty complex.

[cniht]

The more I look at the society missions that are already there, the more in awe I am with Paradox. That's some pretty cool stuff they did there with the scripting engine. So I started to wonder what specific missions and/or abilities for a Lilith secret order might be. At the end it will not be that different from the satanists, though. Just with a bit more flesh, gore and people going out on a bang but a whimper.

 

The thing is: Some of the initial stuff in that regards will duplicate what this mod already provides: At rank 1 of being a member of the order you get two abilities:

• Initiate a Virgin: Seduce a virgin of the opposite sex and make him/her acquainted with what pleasure lilith holds. Sort of seduction event with a chance of failure that (if all goes well) brings up the usual triple choice panel for consensual sex. At the end of it there is a good chance the "victim" gains the trait lilith or incubus depending on gender.
• Sacrifice to Lilith: Sacrifice a prisoner of the opposite sex to Lilith by shagging the life-forces out of them. Keeping the dark tone of my mod: This has consequences. The victim was in your prison and died and din't simply vanish. So aside from drawing attention to your moonlighting activities it will piss off their relatives.

I got these two more or less complete. Aside from some small things such as side effects and eye candy they're not too different from the "comming of age" events or "DWT: Rape Prisoner". Which makes me wonder if I shouldn't simply take "DWT: Raper Courtier" and "DWT: Rape Prisoner" away. Like only making them available by default if someone doesn't have "Monks and Mystics", but aside from that make them require society rank #1 (for prisoner) and rank #2 (for courtier). I may leave them in for now, as there are differences, though.

 

I'm basing my stuff for the Lilith order a bit on the general outline of the satanists,. So there will be some overlap in certain areas with some of the lesser missions such as "desecrate temple/church", although I'll try to flesh these out a bit, too.

 

All in all: This will require some time as it's pretty complex.

 

Well here is a completely different suggestion.  Now that we have societies, should it be looked at completely up-ending the current 'decision' based Lilith, Werewolf, and Vampire starts in DW_Reborn?  Each one of those could potentially just be converted into a society and then a lot of the powers/decisions given to Lilith followers rolled into the society format with some mission flare.  This would be especially useful to allow players to play several different aspects of DW_Reborn without having an entire new game start each time or mess with console commands.

[DocToska]

Well here is a completely different suggestion.  Now that we have societies, should it be looked at completely up-ending the current 'decision' based Lilith, Werewolf, and Vampire starts in DW_Reborn?  Each one of those could potentially just be converted into a society and then a lot of the powers/decisions given to Lilith followers rolled into the society format with some mission flare.  This would be especially useful to allow players to play several different aspects of DW_Reborn without having an entire new game start each time or mess with console commands.

 

That certainly is an interesting thought and it might be a good idea to see what dewguru thinks about it. For certain aspects of Dark World this could possibly make some sense. On the other hand: The societies of Monks and Mystics are fairly monolithic blocks of code in a modular framework.

 

So yes: You can just add your own society with missions and events. But that's then just in this one mod. A second mod cannot easily modify a society that another mod created, although you could add missions and events of your own. Even that then has some limitations. Like you need separate triggers that fire the missions and events and they would compete with the triggers from the mod that introduced the societies own missions and events.

 

Say you add a new "ability" that a certatin rank has beyond what the original mod with the society introduced. You can make that ability available for members of that rank in the society and players can use it. But the new ability will not be visible in the society panel when you mouse over the rank icons. Because the help text there is rendered by the mod that introduced the society. And that's not affected by the mod that added the ability on its own. That's not a big issue, but there might be others.

 

I don't know. It might have some potential, but we could also lock ourselves in a corner with this.

[ngppgn]

The more I look at the society missions that are already there, the more in awe I am with Paradox. That's some pretty cool stuff they did there with the scripting engine. So I started to wonder what specific missions and/or abilities for a Lilith secret order might be. At the end it will not be that different from the satanists, though. Just with a bit more flesh, gore and people going out on a bang but a whimper.

 

The thing is: Some of the initial stuff in that regards will duplicate what this mod already provides: At rank 1 of being a member of the order you get two abilities:

• Initiate a Virgin: Seduce a virgin of the opposite sex and make him/her acquainted with what pleasure lilith holds. Sort of seduction event with a chance of failure that (if all goes well) brings up the usual triple choice panel for consensual sex. At the end of it there is a good chance the "victim" gains the trait lilith or incubus depending on gender.
• Sacrifice to Lilith: Sacrifice a prisoner of the opposite sex to Lilith by shagging the life-forces out of them. Keeping the dark tone of my mod: This has consequences. The victim was in your prison and died and din't simply vanish. So aside from drawing attention to your moonlighting activities it will piss off their relatives.

I got these two more or less complete. Aside from some small things such as side effects and eye candy they're not too different from the "comming of age" events or "DWT: Rape Prisoner". Which makes me wonder if I shouldn't simply take "DWT: Raper Courtier" and "DWT: Rape Prisoner" away. Like only making them available by default if someone doesn't have "Monks and Mystics", but aside from that make them require society rank #1 (for prisoner) and rank #2 (for courtier). I may leave them in for now, as there are differences, though.

 

I'm basing my stuff for the Lilith order a bit on the general outline of the satanists,. So there will be some overlap in certain areas with some of the lesser missions such as "desecrate temple/church", although I'll try to flesh these out a bit, too.

 

All in all: This will require some time as it's pretty complex.

You know, since, you're adding an original society, you don't need to block it behind the dlc, since the society framework is free with the patch.

[TriggerBlade]

I say don't take away the rape decisions from regular rulers. Your ruler can be a monster without needing to be a demon.

Though if there was ever a Vampire Society, I vote the hell out of making it Masqurade like with different bloodlines.

[Aliris]

You could gate those decisions behind certain traits, such as Cruel or Lustful, for instance, as well as the society options, so rulers who were depraved on their own could take advantage of prisoners, etc.

[Kimy]

Tried this mod with a new game and really love it! It's a great addition to DW!

 

Would it be possible to prevent bestiality and futa events from happening if this sort of content is disabled in Dark World game rules? I know the dog stuff isn't a problem because it requires you buying the dog in the first place, but I had my character and her horse do...things a few times, on random occasions.

 

Also, the Defiled trait you get from getting raped while commanding troops is brutal, considering how relatively often this event happens. I had several uprisings happen because it drove my vassals over the "anger limit" all by itself.    The event occurring often is not the problem, just the debuff from the trait is a bit...tough.

[Aliris]

Tried this mod with a new game and really love it! It's a great addition to DW!

 

Would it be possible to prevent bestiality and futa events from happening if this sort of content is disabled in Dark World game rules? I know the dog stuff isn't a problem because it requires you buying the dog in the first place, but I had my character and her horse do...things a few times, on random occasions.

 

Also, the Defiled trait you get from getting raped while commanding troops is brutal, considering how relatively often this event happens. I had several uprisings happen because it drove my vassals over the "anger limit" all by itself.    The event occurring often is not the problem, just the debuff from the trait is a bit...tough.

 

Most of it is fine, but the Sex Appeal penalty is the biggest issue, I think, because that's where you really get slammed. -33 is huge, and is worse than Ugly (-20), and even Dwarf/Hunchback/Inbred/Imbecile (all -30 each). I think it should probably only be -5, or -10 at most, because that's stacking on top of -5 General opinion, and -5 vassal opinion.

 

So being a victim right now is a net -43 to all your vassal's opinions of you, which is worse than anything else in the game.

 

The spouse penalty is fine, as is the general opinion ones.

 

I would definitely also recommend adding the game rule triggers, too.

[Quillon]

1. Personally I think removing rape decisions is a bad idea. My rulers... if they end up evil, quite use that decisions. Please, let them ingame for normal rulers.

Even if it means having them under certain traits.

 

 

2. Honestly, I would say... even that raping event, while commanding troops is quite frequent. And it adds a lot of frustration. Since you lost the battle and got really, really bad trait. Which demotivates you from playing female commanders. And even disables option of luring tactics.

 

 

For Toska:

 

Initiate Virgin...

Have you thought about those consequences, which would come after making someone Incubus/succubus?

Because if your events allow to do stuff with those traits, they could go really crazy.

And combined with DW stuff... it would result probably in... chaos?

Especially if it's rank 1 ability. Instantly give someone beneficial trait.

(I would thought, that becoming a succubus would be big honor, instead of generic ability for basic members)

Personally, I think giving it very low chance would be the best... But with modifiers increasing the chance. Like bombshell (highest), attractive, lustful or genius.

 

 

By the way, original Monks and Mystics has some events tied with Lilith.

Maybe it would be really good idea to copy them and add it into Lilith society too?

It seems lazy, but makes sense, tho.

[DocToska]

@All,

 

Many thanks for the suggestions. The existing targeted decissions will remain available even if you're not in the society. I concur that it would be a bad idea to take them away.

 

I also thought about the suggestion of reducing the impact of the "raped" trait and I agree that -33% malus for "spouse_opinion", "sex_appeal_opinion" and "ai_honor" may be too tough. So I went in and dropped them all across the board:

 

    diplomacy = -2
    intrigue = 5
    opposite_opinion = -15
    spouse_opinion = -10
    sex_appeal_opinion = -3
    ai_honor = -10
    vassal_opinion = -3
    tribal_opinion = -3

 

We'll see if that's good enough or needs further tweaks. Another option would be to not assign this as a trait, but handle it similar as the dw_rape_trauma from DW:Core: Make it a temporal effect that eventually wears off. I don't want to do that, because I think such a traumatic experience has a lasting effect.

 

Celwenil brought up a good point: Is it really wise to hand out lilith and incubus traits like candy via a level 1 society ability? As is: I already have set it up so that everyone who joins Lilith's Own gets the incubus/lilith trait. As it works, the triggers slowly populate the orders with AI chars over time and these also handle promotions within the order. Each society has scripted limits that define how many members each rank might have at the most. The default I'm working with (taking it as it was from the_satanists) is this:

• rank 1: 100 members
• rank 2: 50 members
• rank 3: 25 members
• rank 4: 1 member

So give it a few years and we have at least 176 lilith/incubus around in a fully populated order alone. Plus whatever offspring they spawn that inherits the trait. In a couple of hundred years this could indeed cause utter mayhem and carnage and the world will be taken over by heavily traumatized tentacle spawns with a phobia about dogs and horses. This sure needs some testing and adjustments. For sure the mechanisms and frequencies with which the AI uses the lilith/incubus abilities would need to be toned down. Or the number of active lilith/incubus needs to be kept in check.

 

So I think I'll tone it all back and will grant lilith/incubus traits only automatically to rank 3 members and above. That drops the number from 176 down to 26, which is more plausible. Additionally I will also not hand the lilith/incubus trait out during the targeted rank 1 skill  "Initiate to Lilith". Instead the initiate will become a lustful hedonistic slut. With a fairly good chance to turn them straight into professionals in the "horizontal entertainment business".

 

As for keeping some of the original events from M&M for this order? Absolutely.

[Quillon]

Sweet!

Thanks for understanding weight of consequences of such decisions.

I think giving that lustful trait is a great one. Highest rsbj of Benedictine Order gives diligent trait... So sad.

(Hedonist one is about for discussion, since it takes away possibility of lifestyle focus)

 

I'm honestly terrified of what powerhouse will be this society, if Lucifers Own One and Liliths Own are freely running around.

BUT also really excited.

[plutocene]

Really like most of the additions your mod adds, but the catholic religion changes are OP. Concubines, close kin marriage without penalties and +15 relation for beeing Jain?

 

Like already suggested it would be great if you could make some things modular at game start, i.e. leaving certain aspects out in conjunction with dark world.

 

[Aliris]

Really like most of the additions your mod adds, but the catholic religion changes are OP. Concubines, close kin marriage without penalties and +15 relation for beeing Jain?

 

Like already suggested it would be great if you could make some things modular at game start, i.e. leaving certain aspects out in conjunction with dark world.

 

One possibility for making this optional for the mod would be to incorporate a game rule that lets people toggle it on/off.

 

In the meantime though, for those who don't like to use it, you can do what I personally do, and simply delete the text file in the DWToska\common\religion\ folder, without causing any other issues in the mod or game.

[penzor]

I wonder if mods will be able to simulate secret society warfare in the future. Lilith vs that inferior purgatory warden "Satan".

Oh btw about the rape traits, the rapist trait gives +100 relation to your spouse WAD?

[plutocene]

 

Really like most of the additions your mod adds, but the catholic religion changes are OP. Concubines, close kin marriage without penalties and +15 relation for beeing Jain?

 

Like already suggested it would be great if you could make some things modular at game start, i.e. leaving certain aspects out in conjunction with dark world.

 

One possibility for making this optional for the mod would be to incorporate a game rule that lets people toggle it on/off.

 

In the meantime though, for those who don't like to use it, you can do what I personally do, and simply delete the text file in the DWToska\common\religion\ folder, without causing any other issues in the mod or game.

 

 

Thanks for the info, I'll definetly try that when I play christians again.

[plutocene]

I wonder if mods will be able to simulate secret society warfare in the future. Lilith vs that inferior purgatory warden "Satan".

 

Oh btw about the rape traits, the rapist trait gives +100 relation to your spouse WAD?

 

Was wondering about that too.

The newly added societies are just great in many aspects, It would be great to have a stronger interaction between those. The dominicans could be able to get special missions to hunt down abominations (Werewolves, Succibi, etc.) and heretics alike, with all kinds of options. The pope really needs to get a beef up too, i. e. sending a legate to a heretic county for investigations or excommunicating rulers, which could give powerful faithful vassals a casus belly, as well as other christian rulers etc.

[Dem8840]

Would it be possible to have concubines for catholics made into a game rule? 

 

After some decades there are hardly any females left for marriage

[DocToska]

Oh btw about the rape traits, the rapist trait gives +100 relation to your spouse WAD?

 

Ah, I'm glad someone noticed that.

 

Yes. This one. Say you're an incubus or lilith. You shag everything (willing or not) that's not on a tree by the count of three. But you're also married, because you need some legitimate offspring. So within days or weeks at the most the usual mechanics would make your spouse your worst enemy. Especially as all the shagging around and spawning bastards left and right increases the spouses hate on you over time.

 

I tested this extensively in the past and it was quite intolerable. The scale tops out at -100, but after a year I had a spouse so friggin' mad that even a +1000 bonus wouldn't bring me back anywhere near amicable relationship status.

 

So ... I added this as a little compensator. Sort of the spouse acknowledging that (s)he's in an "open relationship" with a do-no-good that has side-shags. After all, it gives her (or him) some time that (s)he doesn't have to spend horizontally. It still doesn't make sure that the spouse approves of everything and just gives it the right balance it needs.

 

Does it make sense? Hell, no. But on the other hand: If you're playing a char that's this far off the deep end you wouldn't want to marry a prude chick (or chuck) that easily gets offended by some extra-marital activities. So I took this shortcut to implement that. Long term this ought to change to something more plausible. Like giving out a magic spouse-of-a-Lilith-tolerance trait maybe? We'll see.

[Aliris]

 

Oh btw about the rape traits, the rapist trait gives +100 relation to your spouse WAD?

 

Ah, I'm glad someone noticed that.

 

Yes. This one. Say you're an incubus or lilith. You shag everything (willing or not) that's not on a tree by the count of three. But you're also married, because you need some legitimate offspring. So within days or weeks at the most the usual mechanics would make your spouse your worst enemy. Especially as all the shagging around and spawning bastards left and right increases the spouses hate on you over time.

 

I tested this extensively in the past and it was quite intolerable. The scale tops out at -100, but after a year I had a spouse so friggin' mad that even a +1000 bonus wouldn't bring me back anywhere near amicable relationship status.

 

So ... I added this as a little compensator. Sort of the spouse acknowledging that (s)he's in an "open relationship" with a do-no-good that has side-shags. After all, it gives her (or him) some time that (s)he doesn't have to spend horizontally. It still doesn't make sure that the spouse approves of everything and just gives it the right balance it needs.

 

Does it make sense? Hell, no. But on the other hand: If you're playing a char that's this far off the deep end you wouldn't want to marry a prude chick (or chuck) that easily gets offended by some extra-marital activities. So I took this shortcut to implement that. Long term this ought to change to something more plausible. Like giving out a magic spouse-of-a-Lilith-tolerance trait maybe? We'll see.

 

 

My personal solution to this was to never get married.

 

This way, I had full control over who I wanted to actually be my heir, rather than being stuck with someone that had terrible traits (and needed murdering in some way), or worse, didn't even have the bloodline trait I was trying to play with. It was terribly frustrating for me to start, say, a Children of Lilith campaign, only for my second played character to not even have that bloodline, because the first decent one was 4-5 heirs deep, and then I'd have to murder or get killed off the preceding ones, and any children they'd had, etc...

 

So instead, I'd just recognize (but not legitimize) all of my bastard children, and then legitimize whichever one (or ones) had the core trait, plus some other desireable ones.

 

And best of all, my lovers never got upset, because I stacked up enough "recognized child" bonuses.

 

It's entirely twisted in the sense of how things should really work, but given the way the game currently is, I don't see any really good alternative between the core trait not being grantable/imbueable somehow (which has been a possibility in past versions of DW), the way the inheritance systems work, and the way the opinion system works.

[penzor]

 

Oh btw about the rape traits, the rapist trait gives +100 relation to your spouse WAD?

 

Ah, I'm glad someone noticed that.

 

Yes. This one. Say you're an incubus or lilith. You shag everything (willing or not) that's not on a tree by the count of three. But you're also married, because you need some legitimate offspring. So within days or weeks at the most the usual mechanics would make your spouse your worst enemy. Especially as all the shagging around and spawning bastards left and right increases the spouses hate on you over time.

 

I tested this extensively in the past and it was quite intolerable. The scale tops out at -100, but after a year I had a spouse so friggin' mad that even a +1000 bonus wouldn't bring me back anywhere near amicable relationship status.

 

So ... I added this as a little compensator. Sort of the spouse acknowledging that (s)he's in an "open relationship" with a do-no-good that has side-shags. After all, it gives her (or him) some time that (s)he doesn't have to spend horizontally. It still doesn't make sure that the spouse approves of everything and just gives it the right balance it needs.

 

Does it make sense? Hell, no. But on the other hand: If you're playing a char that's this far off the deep end you wouldn't want to marry a prude chick (or chuck) that easily gets offended by some extra-marital activities. So I took this shortcut to implement that. Long term this ought to change to something more plausible. Like giving out a magic spouse-of-a-Lilith-tolerance trait maybe? We'll see.

 

 

Ok but that would make sense only in a lilith context, i get that the spouse would be lenient towards a know succ/incubus. Without any lilith related intervention the person would just be a bastard rapist, and later kids or not, i doubt the spouse would like being married to a rapist. Maybe associate the bonus just to the lilithian traits?

[Quillon]

Whole trait makes sense... and is even underpowered, since if player keeps using rape option, it can stack up terrible opinion. Yeah, sure... it doesn't make sense, but keep in mind this:

 

1. Spouse may not know, what her husband did. He could have done it in dark dungeons or far away from home.

It's not like victim is raped in front of her.

 

2. She didn't like marriage with a rapist? Probably she doesn't have a choice, since that timeline was very... unpleasant for female population. She may dislike it, but there's nothing she can to, unless she's ruler with power.

 

3. Spouse can get negative opinion pretty quickly, negating that 100 opinion bonus.

 

4. Some characters may like it? I had few characters, which turned out with cruel trait as wives.

 

And giving it to succubus succumbs and Incubus would seriously cripple playing with rape targeted option. As Toska said... it negates partially some part of future harm, done by rape action.

[NoxBestia]

@DocToska

 

If you would be willing to move your "dw_dog_procreo" decision into its own text file, then I could overwrite it by itself and apply my mod's kink rules to both my male and your female versions of the decision without having to overwrite your entire dwt_rape_decisions.txt file and risk missing a change and breaking something of yours.  I'd like to leave as much of your content untouched as I can.