IMPORTANT: Site Upgrade Coming on July 1st

[HentaiGnome]

I know I'm gonna get a lot of flak for saying this, but I feel like I just need to get it off my chest.

 

Ashal, honestly why not just do what YOU want to do? If you have a vision of how you'd like the site to be, then I say, go for it!   Don't worry about trying to be completely backwards compatible with old or current plugins, or trying to cater to every single person's demands. If things are gonna break and you're forced to make it so that everyone might have to start fresh on a clean slate then why not? Sure, people will moan and groan but after the initial culture shock they will come back to their senses and ADAPT to the new system. (And I'm sure modders will reupload their stuff, or at least the modders who care enough or are currently active.) I guess the only really important thing here is that everyone's accounts are carried over. Everything else can be brand new IMHO. (On a slightly different note, I think it would be nice to have a new site theme as well.  )

 

Anyway, I can't imagine how difficult it must be to administer an extremely large community such as ours so the least I can do is wish you the best of luck and know that I and many others here support you. Keep rolling that rock uphill!

 

EDIT: Oh, and on the subject about making the forums mobile-friendly. Honestly, I recommend it. These days, most people have smartphones and are on-the-go and having a mobile-friendly website makes your site that much more accessible (and attractive). I literally know people who can't be bothered to wait a few minutes to turn on their computers/laptops, but are willing to pull out their phones from their pockets and start browsing sites immediately within seconds. I personally think it's important to adapt to technology trends. But again, do what you feel is best.

[bjornk]

I provide a mod here and can answer questions while being on-the-road...

A design optimized for mobile use hinders the experience for the majority of people on LL who don't do something like that. I'm okay with a separate version for mobile users (e.g. mobile.loverslab.com) but for the main site it's NOT acceptable.

[RitualClarity]

 

 

 

I hate IPB 4.x. It feels dumbed down and bloated. Bad performance, less functionality, bad usability. After this second attempt, I'd never want to go back to it, tbqh. Maybe we should think of another solution.

 

Do you have another solution that can be implemented? If so can you make sure it is comparable with the desires and feature set that is wanted for this site... if so please suggest it. This is the second time Ashal tried to complete the site change. I am sure if there comes along a better solution that he can admin he would be open to it. I am also pretty sure he has checked out other possible choices and decided against them for one reason or another (like not being able to transfer the massive data over easily without loosing something)

 

@Ashal...

They say the third time is a charm...

Keep the faith.

 

 

 

 

Here are some alternatives, although I know nothing about forum software and can't say if any of these are viable alternatives.

 

http://alternativeto.net/software/ip-board/?license=free

 

I am pretty sure that Ashal and team (assuming that CPU is assisting and perhaps others) have looked over them but .. it is available to look over. I hope we can get a new software package. I for on didn't have a single major problem during the issue. I believe a page didn't load once correctly but I left for 15 minutes or so and came back and it was fine. It was much smoother this time even though there are issues. Hopefully the next attempt (x3) will be the charm.

 

 

Do you have another solution that can be implemented? If so can you make sure it is comparable with the desires and feature set that is wanted for this site... if so please suggest it.

I would love to suggest a solution but I'm not well informed about the problems with the current version or the reasons for these upgrade attempts. All I can say at the moment is that upgrading to 4.x doesn't seem like a feasible/desirable option. My opinion about 4.x will not change until I've seen a 4.x forum which is as fast and usable as the current 3.x version. Keep in mind that while Nexus is a much larger site compared to LL, they still use the same 3.x version.

I am on the same boat. I am a moderator on another site and even a admin on another one.. I can't do the back end. I have hard enough problems just doing normal moving, hiding files etc.. Didn't know the Nexus is using the older software however I am pretty sure it is modified as all hell over the standard. 

 

 

(like not being able to transfer the massive data over easily without loosing something)

this should be a non-issue.  It just takes a series of sql scripts and batch conversions on the data set to go from one forum structure to another.  If done correctly, it's not even that tedious, and very possible. I can tell this group is in-experienced with forum upgrades.  For example: they don't practice the full migration in a test environment first.  They just try to update the main website, fuck up, and inevitably experience some loss in the form of some people using the new site and some the old, during the migration phase.  

 

What they ought to do is:

• first clone the main site
• second practice the upgrade, work out all the little details 
• last implement real upgrade

 

Good details ... I also wondered why they didn't just clone the system then test the features and such and get it to a very usable state and then use that one as well. I am of the believe the size of the site makes this difficult to do with the resources he likely has.

 

The SQL scripts .. and batch conversions.. sounds easy in statement however can be very complex and tedious and as you stated "if done correctly" I don't believe Ashal is trained or very experienced in this and if done wrong... can lead to even worse results. (At least from my understanding) He also can't just open it up to someone here to do it for him for security reasons. He has to be selective. Finally cost for an expert to create these batches to convert from one to another software package would be very hard to swing.

 

You also forgot one step I believe in the migration instructions you gave... another run of the scripts to migrate all the data that was added to the old site to the new setup sight. . Otherwise when moving the old one you would loose the data added since the clone.. or so I believe would happen based on your statement.

[RitualClarity]

I know I'm gonna get a lot of flak for saying this, but I feel like I just need to get it off my chest.

 

Ashal, honestly why not just do what YOU want to do? If you have a vision of how you'd like the site to be, then I say, go for it!   Don't worry about trying to be completely backwards compatible with old or current plugins, or trying to cater to every single person's demands. If things are gonna break and you're forced to make it so that everyone might have to start fresh on a clean slate then why not? Sure, people will moan and groan but after the initial culture shock they will come back to their senses and ADAPT to the new system. (And I'm sure modders will reupload their stuff, or at least the modders who care enough or are currently active.) I guess the only really important thing here is that everyone's accounts are carried over. Everything else can be brand new IMHO. (On a slightly different note, I think it would be nice to have a new site theme as well.  )

 

Anyway, I can't imagine how difficult it must be to administer an extremely large community such as ours so the least I can do is wish you the best of luck and know that I and many others here support you. Keep rolling that rock uphill!

 

EDIT: Oh, and on the subject about making the forums mobile-friendly. Honestly, I recommend it. These days, most people have smartphones and are on-the-go and having a mobile-friendly website makes your site that much more accessible (and attractive). I literally know people who can't be bothered to wait a few minutes to turn on their computers/laptops, but are willing to pull out their phones from their pockets and start browsing sites immediately within seconds. I personally think it's important to adapt to technology trends. But again, do what you feel is best.

 

If he can't upgrade... he might have to create "new" loverslab. However I don't believe it will be as big a problem. Mods that have not been updated and the author is absent can be migrated over and Hosted by someone else so long as it is mentioned in the OP clearly. This has happened many times in the past when mods were old and needed to be moved around and the author wasn't around to do it himself (or didn't care to do it themselves) 

 

In one way this would help clean up the site and create a new fresh start. It wouldn't be the first site that did this.

 

[Benmc20]

 

I hate IPB 4.x. It feels dumbed down and bloated. Bad performance, less functionality, bad usability. After this second attempt, I'd never want to go back to it, tbqh. Maybe we should think of another solution.

 

Do you have another solution that can be implemented? If so can you make sure it is comparable with the desires and feature set that is wanted for this site... if so please suggest it. This is the second time Ashal tried to complete the site change. I am sure if there comes along a better solution that he can admin he would be open to it. I am also pretty sure he has checked out other possible choices and decided against them for one reason or another (like not being able to transfer the massive data over easily without loosing something)

 

@Ashal...

They say the third time is a charm...

Keep the faith.

 

To be frank, the only one who is really stable and with a lot of fonctionnality is far more costly, so, forget it.

[RitualClarity]

 

 

I hate IPB 4.x. It feels dumbed down and bloated. Bad performance, less functionality, bad usability. After this second attempt, I'd never want to go back to it, tbqh. Maybe we should think of another solution.

 

Do you have another solution that can be implemented? If so can you make sure it is comparable with the desires and feature set that is wanted for this site... if so please suggest it. This is the second time Ashal tried to complete the site change. I am sure if there comes along a better solution that he can admin he would be open to it. I am also pretty sure he has checked out other possible choices and decided against them for one reason or another (like not being able to transfer the massive data over easily without loosing something)

 

@Ashal...

They say the third time is a charm...

Keep the faith.

 

To be frank, the only one who is really stable and with a lot of fonctionnality is far more costly, so, forget it.

 

 

All of this discussion shows is  there isn't much choice for Ashal to take this site foward.

 

[Guest Electriq]

I really hope the problem get figured so the move to the new amazing site can happen

 

Personally I really like the new site, for me it's much more user friendly and nicer than [old] current one

 

Good luck

[Benmc20]

 

 

 

I hate IPB 4.x. It feels dumbed down and bloated. Bad performance, less functionality, bad usability. After this second attempt, I'd never want to go back to it, tbqh. Maybe we should think of another solution.

 

Do you have another solution that can be implemented? If so can you make sure it is comparable with the desires and feature set that is wanted for this site... if so please suggest it. This is the second time Ashal tried to complete the site change. I am sure if there comes along a better solution that he can admin he would be open to it. I am also pretty sure he has checked out other possible choices and decided against them for one reason or another (like not being able to transfer the massive data over easily without loosing something)

 

@Ashal...

They say the third time is a charm...

Keep the faith.

 

To be frank, the only one who is really stable and with a lot of fonctionnality is far more costly, so, forget it.

 

 

All of this discussion shows is  there isn't much choice for Ashal to take this site foward.

 

There may be another solution, but I haven't checked this for the moment.

 

And let Ashal breathe please .

[RitualClarity]

The mighty Ashal don't need to breath..

However he might need a small break in-between working on stupid computers.

[guk]

 

Especially on mobile devices it is far better than the old version.

Why is that a good thing? I agree that its design feels optimized for mobile use, which is one of the reasons I hate it. This is a modding forum for PC games and I don't use a bloody touch screen with my fingers.

 

 

 

 

I provide a mod here and can answer questions while being on-the-road...

A design optimized for mobile use hinders the experience for the majority of people on LL who don't do something like that. I'm okay with a separate version for mobile users (e.g. mobile.loverslab.com) but for the main site it's NOT acceptable.

 

I don't know if there even is an option to keep the same look and functionality, and i have no idea if "we" (the desktop / laptop PC-exclusive users) are still a majority over the "smartphone zombies".

 

But i agree that the new forum software is just objectively worse, had a quick look at the new site and even if this probably isn't final, here are some criteria which simply ruin the forum functionality we were used to for the past 10+ years:

• horizontal width of the forum on my 27" 1080p monitor is about 1cm less, while the various tabs / threads / forum buttons are significantly larger. This means simply less relevant information on the screen, and much more scrolling while you still can't get the same overview.
• embedded images can't be clicked on to enlarge them. Obviously the software only knows touchscreens with the finger zoom and pan, to view them in fullscreen you have to right-click and select "view image". This is even worse because of the earlier mentioned Java display of the forum, which throws you back to page 1 when you use the browser-back button.
• overall design of buttons and links, for example spoilers now say "click to reveal hidden content" instead of simply "show". This is just unnecessary clutter on the screen, and looks sort of unprofessional over the old layout.
• the heart instead of the good old "arrow up" for reputation doesn't just suck subjectively, you also can't see the names of users who gave reputation. Instead we got that info below the avatars how many total lifetime reputation a user has, which might be flattering for a user like me with 1000+ reputation but that also might kind of bias readers in a discussion to only believe the guy with higher rep.
•  i didn't log in to test, but i guess the good old BBcode is gone forever? I feel kind lobotomized by having to use the new edit box....

[Dooge]

It's undecided right now. For now I need to take a break from it and get a clear head. I'll give the swap another go tomorrow night and then decide for sure.

 

Are you working this all by yourself or do you have help?

 

I have found out, that most of the time, just trying to explain what is the problem, in all the technical details, helps me figure out what the problem is. Often I just ignored even trying to explain a problem as a task too laboursome and unfruitful, but I have learned that the process of explaining a problem, writing it down, does often help to solve it. Additional benefit is that once it is written down, someone else may be able to figure it out, although this is not the purpose of writing about it.

 

In any case, I wish you much wow.

 

regards, helpful doge

 

[Benmc20]

With this problem of IPboard 4.1 not so efficient, just saw this one : https://xenforo.com/

 

The only thing I haven't seen is for the blogs. It don't seem to be very costly too.

[darkconsole]

 

I'm on an Android smartphone.  I don't have a PC anymore.  And what I meant to say was the topic names on the new site are cut too short.  More than the old site.  That makes it more difficult to tell what kind of topic it is before clicking on it.

 

i didn't realise we supported modding games on android here. >_>

 

 

Don't worry about trying to be completely backwards compatible with old or current plugins, or trying to cater to every single person's demands.

 

this.

 

not only do i need the new features to keep sane, but i imagine you need security updates. if you throw it on PHP 7 you'll get a magic speed boost for almost free, assuming the software isn't using a dumb feature like magic quotes that was removed.

[Guest]

awww i liked the new site

[RitualClarity]

awww i liked the new site

 

IT isn't over yet. The new site might still arise from the ashes.

I also was getting used to and started to like the new site as well. It is similar to other sites I go to and it was working quite well for me other than a few glitches that I can easily contribute to the "work in process" being done.

 

[galgat]

I have no problem either way, Ashal does so much for all of us. If he is tired, and wants to wait a bit I am fine with the old sight.

 

If he wishes to continue, I was beginning to get use to the new sight, and would be fine with that too.

 

I am personally more concerned with he's need's, and time than my own petty grievances...

 

So what ever Ashal decides is fine by Me!

[Guest]

 

awww i liked the new site

 

IT isn't over yet. The new site might still arise from the ashes.

I also was getting used to and started to like the new site as well. It is similar to other sites I go to and it was working quite well for me other than a few glitches that I can easily contribute to the "work in process" being done.

 

 

 

Awesome    I hope so!~

[afa]

Some serious shit when down in the last 20 hours or something?

The new site was running fine for me the last time I checked, seems to be running about the same now in my other tab.

 

Well if we are going to stick with this old one for the time being maybe disable posting in the other one for now?

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

You mean I was right in being an asshole about this whole thing failing? I was technically correct, which is the best kind of correct!

 

... Erm... well, ya gave it an honest go and it failed. No shame in trying, failing and then trying again, even if the second try also failed. It's how we learn and grow; who knows, if a third time comes the lessons from these last two tries will be invaluable. And even if it's a different forum software that is picked, the lessons learned from this can still be of use.

 

Though, I'm just beggin' ya, don't pick a forum software that's optimized for mobile first in the future. This place is mainly for modding of PC games, not mobile nonsense.

[atrix]

I'm unsure of where to post now.  Here, or the new site?

[Yuni]

I'm unsure of where to post now.  Here, or the new site?

 

I second this. Pages of text to read to figure out what's going on.

[Ashal]

I'm unsure of where to post now.  Here, or the new site?

 

Post here. There is no way to migrate posts backwards between versions.

[Spyder Arachnid]

Sorry to hear the upgrade hasn't been going smoothly. Haven't been having any issues over here though. Everything (on the new site) seemed to load just fine for me and not slow.

[Ashal]

Sorry to hear the upgrade hasn't been going smoothly. Haven't been having any issues over here though. Everything (on the new site) seemed to load just fine for me and not slow.

it depends on when you were hitting the new site. It was running okay-ish for the first 40 minutes, but at the time of my last post there, 4 minutes before you posted there that everything was fine, the site was starting to get gateway errors and/or take 10+ seconds to load a page. This was alleviated quickly though as I quickly swapped the traffic back to this version of the site and restarted a few things so it ran smooth again, the smoothness wouldn't have lasted though.

[RitualClarity]

 

I'm unsure of where to post now.  Here, or the new site?

 

Post here. There is no way to migrate posts backwards between versions.

 

 

Might want to restrict or at least strongly warn about the other site on that site. I believe people (know I am) posting there some might be important (mine isn't )