[CLOSED] NSAP Revival

[chevalierx]

There is a key theme here. Quanitity over Quality. Theres a lack of respect to the creators and thier personal lives. Go through SLAL and you will see creators burned out, some saying they haven't played the game since they started modding. I think a lot of users need to take a step back and rethink their position. The silent majority are the patient ones; mainly cause we dont hear them complain about how updates are slow. And again some of you need to realize there was a time before NSAP and SLAL where it was jusy SexLab; think about the length of time betwewn those updates.

 

The bar is set to high. The end user is spoiled and have high expectations. This is probably why no-one wants to manage the packs. Reign it in a bit and show support for the people giving updates and the selfless work they do. NSAP became slower because I got burned out and feed up with the constant badgering. Some modders turn a blind eye and ignore it, but it is always a big kick in the gut when people comment on how slow I became as they were too busy caring about the next sex animation in game than the living breathing working human making

it.

 

why don't do it , and let user chose SLAL or NSAP ,for me is stability ..

[factoryclose]

There is a key theme here. Quanitity over Quality. Theres a lack of respect to the creators and thier personal lives. Go through SLAL and you will see creators burned out, some saying they haven't played the game since they started modding. I think a lot of users need to take a step back and rethink their position. The silent majority are the patient ones; mainly cause we dont hear them complain about how updates are slow. And again some of you need to realize there was a time before NSAP and SLAL where it was jusy SexLab; think about the length of time betwewn those updates.

 

The bar is set to high. The end user is spoiled and have high expectations. This is probably why no-one wants to manage the packs. Reign it in a bit and show support for the people giving updates and the selfless work they do. NSAP became slower because I got burned out and feed up with the constant badgering. Some modders turn a blind eye and ignore it, but it is always a big kick in the gut when people comment on how slow I became as they were too busy caring about the next sex animation in game than the living breathing working human making

it.

 

Sadly, absolutely true. Some have to learn that works done by modders who just share theirs willingly weren't just done out of nowhere. Modding is horribly time-consuming and demands tons of knowledge which actually can be acquired by another time-consuming study.

[Tefajo]

Well. IMHO most SLAL packs are a little messy. I usually have a hard time recognizing wich releases  are updates or just animations (for modders to work), if the packs have the same animations than other packs (like the funny busissness's), if they have animations that were also included in other mods (for example, Xandero Vampire feeding is repeated like.. 3 times), etc

So, of course, if you ask me if i'd rather have only 1 mod that manages all the releases of the animations i'd say yes, but i have absolutely no idea of what this represents for the people that keeps it up / has to work it. So what ever is decided you will always have my gratitude and apretiation

 

Regarding working it as a team or as a solo i think that its up to the person who was actually doing it to decide. Working as a team is only effective when the people involved collaborate and work as expected / should, else they just get in the way and they even make things worse.

[Numerals]

I'm not going to touch SLAL with a ten-foot pole unless I somehow absolutely have to. NSAP returning from hiatus would be greatly appreciated.

 

You can call me "resistant to change" or whatever you want to, but switching from a tried-and-true system to something entirely different and more complicated isn't as easy as it sounds, especially when it comes to a game as unstable as heavily-modded Skyrim.

 

 

I have not voted, because frankly I don't care enough about whether it's an one-man project or managed by a team to vote either way in the "Yes" options.

[Feng]

Well SLAL works just fine, but what we'd need most would be any sort of central register, be it NSAP or SLAL with sorted packs, that don't share any animation between two or more of them, so you can be sure to don't get any animations twice.

[AnubiSs2167]

Nsap is a cleaner solution but personally as a creator i do enjoy the much better comunication with Katzumi (person who does my slal packs) then i did when nsap was around. I can send him animation files and next day i can have a private slal pack to test and fine tune them in game instead waiting a month for update to see em and another month for tweaked files to be implemented. Also i have better control of tags and mouth opening. There are still animations in nsap and mnc that have opening mouth command in wrong stages or not at all, and going in and fixing it every single update is not a fun concept.

[SirNibbles]

Nsap is a cleaner solution but personally as a creator i do enjoy the much better comunication with Katzumi (person who does my slal packs) then i did when nsap was around. I can send him animation files and next day i can have a private slal pack to test and fine tune them in game instead waiting a month for update to see em and another month for tweaked files to be implemented. Also i have better control of tags and mouth opening. There are still animations in nsap and mnc that have opening mouth command in wrong stages or not at all, and going in and fixing it every single update is not a fun concept.

It's even easier to be able to package the animations yourself to work with SLAL 

 

That aside, I won't mind seeing NSAP back; mainly for the reason I said before on the pack download page from Rydin "to keep all of the packs in one organized location" .

Also a common use for tags would be useful since I have no idea if I am using all the possible tags there are for my packs.

 

But as previous people here stated, if it does revive; I'll keep using SLAL besides NSAP mainly for two reasons...

The first one is to be able to test the animations in game myself before releasing so I can make some final tweaks.

And the other one is because back when NSAP was still ongoing actively it could take some days (sometimes up to a week) before animations were implemented (man I hated those days when I saw the awesome animations people made but couldn't use them yet D:), so SLAL could also be used in a combined system for people who know how it works to be able to use the animations directly after being released before they get added to NSAP.

 

tldr; I'd like to see NSAP back in action, but also be still able to use SLAL

[myuhinny]

Of course slal packs are going to be faster they are ten times smaller then NSAP and have less animations in them then NSAP does so it takes longer to update and it is also smarter to wait till there is enough animations to make updating NSAP worth it. Updating the whole thing for one new animation isn't worth the effort it would take to update it and it would get old fast not too mention it would of been constant updating.

 

NSAP hasn't left my load order I tried SLAL but found it annoying to try to find what is what so I only have about 2 Leito's giants and AnubiSs2167's pack the rest I stopped wasting time on.

[spoonsinger]

Re:- "There is a key theme here. Quanitity over Quality. Theres a lack of respect to the creators and thier personal lives. Go through SLAL and you will see creators burned out, some saying they haven't played the game since they started modding."

 

Well that's just stupid. You get burned out for things which matter - roof over your head, food on the table,  a good job you want to keep, kids, etc. You don't get burn't out over a hobby or past time. So I'm not in anyway going to look on that sadly if this is such a case.

 

That said I can see having a standard NSAP setup is good for modders because all they need to say in their requirements is that 'NSAP' is required. Then they know that a certain animation is actually there and can tell the complainant to RTFM.

[srayesmanll]

 

Well that's just stupid. You get burned out for things which matter - roof over your head, food on the table,  a good job you want to keep, kids, etc. You don't get burn't out over a hobby or past time. So I'm not in anyway going to look on that sadly if this is such a case.

 

Bullshit.  That is about the silliest thing I have ever heard.  Plus you need to think about it from this view - the hobby becomes a chore when a bunch of demanding people begin flooding your threads/PM with update requests when an animator creates a single new animation.  "Rydin - animator X has released a new Y animation!  It needs to be updated now!!!!!"  Now multiply the by 5, 10, 50, etc people.  Then multiply that times the number of animators releasing animations.  You should be able to imagine someone getting burned out.  Trust me, it's happens whether it's for a job, or for something that's "just a hobby".  Demanding, whining people can ruin a hobby, too.

 

 

 

 

That said I can see having a standard NSAP setup is good for modders because all they need to say in their requirements is that 'NSAP' is required.

And a person who creates a mod can easily create a pack with the individual animations needed for their mod.  FoxFingers could create a pack with a needed kissing animation for Amorous Adventures and host it on their own page.  (This is an example, not asking FF to do this)  Nothing is stopping a mod maker from doing that.  And they can say that SLAL is needed for their mod.  Works both ways...

[spoonsinger]

 

 

Well that's just stupid. You get burned out for things which matter - roof over your head, food on the table,  a good job you want to keep, kids, etc. You don't get burn't out over a hobby or past time. So I'm not in anyway going to look on that sadly if this is such a case.

 

Bullshit.  That is about the silliest thing I have ever heard.  Plus you need to think about it from this view - the hobby becomes a chore when a bunch of demanding people begin flooding your threads/PM with update requests when an animator creates a single new animation.  "Rydin - animator X has released a new Y animation!  It needs to be updated now!!!!!"  Now multiply the by 5, 10, 50, etc people.  Then multiply that times the number of animators releasing animations.  You should be able to imagine someone getting burned out.  Trust me, it's happens whether it's for a job, or for something that's "just a hobby".  Demanding, whining people can ruin a hobby, too.

 

 

 

 

That said I can see having a standard NSAP setup is good for modders because all they need to say in their requirements is that 'NSAP' is required.

And a person who creates a mod can easily create a pack with the individual animations needed for their mod.  FoxFingers could create a pack with a needed kissing animation for Amorous Adventures and host it on their own page.  (This is an example, not asking FF to do this)  Nothing is stopping a mod maker from doing that.  And they can say that SLAL is needed for their mod.  Works both ways...

 

 

Sticky crap filled knickers to both of your observations. I'm working on contracted code at this moment which some fuckwit wrote back in the early 2000's and that arsehole was a dick. Do I do this for fun? - no. Do I do it because I like doing it - yes. Do I do it because of guilt? - erm yes I wrote it in the first place, however I only work for money and from observation you don't get into a burn't out state from anything else. Whining people on forums are just random static background noise. If Rydin was looking for any other general response I suspect he/she was going to be disappointed.

 

 

[srayesmanll]

 

 

 

Well that's just stupid. You get burned out for things which matter - roof over your head, food on the table,  a good job you want to keep, kids, etc. You don't get burn't out over a hobby or past time. So I'm not in anyway going to look on that sadly if this is such a case.

 

Bullshit.  That is about the silliest thing I have ever heard.  Plus you need to think about it from this view - the hobby becomes a chore when a bunch of demanding people begin flooding your threads/PM with update requests when an animator creates a single new animation.  "Rydin - animator X has released a new Y animation!  It needs to be updated now!!!!!"  Now multiply the by 5, 10, 50, etc people.  Then multiply that times the number of animators releasing animations.  You should be able to imagine someone getting burned out.  Trust me, it's happens whether it's for a job, or for something that's "just a hobby".  Demanding, whining people can ruin a hobby, too.

 

 

 

 

That said I can see having a standard NSAP setup is good for modders because all they need to say in their requirements is that 'NSAP' is required.

And a person who creates a mod can easily create a pack with the individual animations needed for their mod.  FoxFingers could create a pack with a needed kissing animation for Amorous Adventures and host it on their own page.  (This is an example, not asking FF to do this)  Nothing is stopping a mod maker from doing that.  And they can say that SLAL is needed for their mod.  Works both ways...

 

 

Sticky crap filled knickers to both of your observations. I'm working on contracted code at this moment which some fuckwit wrote back in the early 2000's and that arsehole was a dick. Do I do this for fun? - no. Do I do it because I like doing it - yes. Do I do it because of guilt? - erm yes I wrote it in the first place, however I only work for money and from observation you don't get into a burn't out state from anything else. Whining people on forums are just random static background noise. If Rydin was looking for any other general response I suspect he/she was going to be disappointed.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but your full of shit.  Welcome to my ignore list.

[rydin]

Nsap is a cleaner solution but personally as a creator i do enjoy the much better comunication with Katzumi (person who does my slal packs) then i did when nsap was around. I can send him animation files and next day i can have a private slal pack to test and fine tune them in game instead waiting a month for update to see em and another month for tweaked files to be implemented. Also i have better control of tags and mouth opening. There are still animations in nsap and mnc that have opening mouth command in wrong stages or not at all, and going in and fixing it every single update is not a fun concept.

 

I go back to my previous statement. Quantity over Quality. I rushed these updates out cause of demand and I stopped having that care. I appreciate you have a better relationshing with Katzumi which is why I recognise one of my flaws is I did it all myself. And as I have already said I have started making a fresh library utilizing information from the current SL framework and fixing faults (for personal reasons).

 

Mouth opening on wrong stages was a very small issue so would not be a big massive thing. If someone compiled a list and went "here are the x aniamtions and stages that need this" I can easily do that for NSAP. That is probably thr most easiest bit I can do for it. But sometimes I lost those posts within loads of posts asking when the next update was I forgot where they are and struggled to keep note of them.

 

When NSAP was around, you started making animations towards the point I was getting burned out (you only had a handful) so I appologise if at that point you felt communication was poor. After two or three animations I remember you actually asked me not to post your animations as you were getting a pack for yourself from CPU. So not really much I could do about it. I'd need to look the thread up again but I remember you asking me not to add them. So not much I could do about that. I ended up removing your animations on an update.

 

[myuhinny]

I believe I remember them saying that as well now that you mention it. I think they said it somewhere in your NSAP thread I think.

[AnubiSs2167]

 

I go back to my previous statement. Quantity over Quality. I rushed these updates out cause of demand and I stopped having that care. I appreciate you have a better relationshing with Katzumi which is why I recognise one of my flaws is I did it all myself. And as I have already said I have started making a fresh library utilizing information from the current SL framework and fixing faults (for personal reasons).

 

Mouth opening on wrong stages was a very small issue so would not be a big massive thing. If someone compiled a list and went "here are the x aniamtions and stages that need this" I can easily do that for NSAP. That is probably thr most easiest bit I can do for it. But sometimes I lost those posts within loads of posts asking when the next update was I forgot where they are and struggled to keep note of them.

 

When NSAP was around, you started making animations towards the point I was getting burned out (you only had a handful) so I appologise if at that point you felt communication was poor. After two or three animations I remember you actually asked me not to post your animations as you were getting a pack for yourself from CPU. So not really much I could do about it. I'd need to look the thread up again but I remember you asking me not to add them. So not much I could do about that. I ended up removing your animations on an update.

 

 

 

Sorry if my post sounded like im blaming you Rydin. Yes, i did asked to not included my animations in nsap, mostly due MNC not being updateted at all. As i did beast animations aswell i had a need to create new mod adding my animations in game so i decided to just include human animations in it aswell. But then SLAL became a thing and i switched to that. When im saying i preffer Katzumis work i am reffering to the possible future when nsap is the main animation adding mod, not the past.

 

I understand that 1 - 2 animations are not considered "worth" to update nsap but please understand the animator point of view aswell. Some of my animations took about 30 hours of nonstop work, naturally i want to see them in game asap. Hearing that "its just 1 animations , who cares?" feels like spit ina  face. Also im  defenitly not a patient man

 

[rydin]

 

 

I go back to my previous statement. Quantity over Quality. I rushed these updates out cause of demand and I stopped having that care. I appreciate you have a better relationshing with Katzumi which is why I recognise one of my flaws is I did it all myself. And as I have already said I have started making a fresh library utilizing information from the current SL framework and fixing faults (for personal reasons).

 

Mouth opening on wrong stages was a very small issue so would not be a big massive thing. If someone compiled a list and went "here are the x aniamtions and stages that need this" I can easily do that for NSAP. That is probably thr most easiest bit I can do for it. But sometimes I lost those posts within loads of posts asking when the next update was I forgot where they are and struggled to keep note of them.

 

When NSAP was around, you started making animations towards the point I was getting burned out (you only had a handful) so I appologise if at that point you felt communication was poor. After two or three animations I remember you actually asked me not to post your animations as you were getting a pack for yourself from CPU. So not really much I could do about it. I'd need to look the thread up again but I remember you asking me not to add them. So not much I could do about that. I ended up removing your animations on an update.

 

 

Sorry if my post sounded like im blaming you Rydin. Yes, i did asked to not included my animations in nsap, mostly due MNC not being updateted at all. As i did beast animations aswell i had a need to create new mod adding my animations in game so i decided to just include human animations in it aswell. But then SLAL became a thing and i switched to that. When im saying i preffer Katzumis work i am reffering to the possible future when nsap is the main animation adding mod, not the past.

 

I understand that 1 - 2 animations are not considered "worth" to update nsap but please understand the animator point of view aswell. Some of my animations took about 30 hours of nonstop work, naturally i want to see them in game asap. Hearing that "its just 1 animations , who cares?" feels like spit ina face. Also im defenitly not a patient man

Just to point out that is not something I stated. I could add just one at a time and would have been happy to. I know how long it takes to make an animation so I can appreciate you want to be able to pubish it as soon as possible. But to flip it on its head its also your choice to invest that time how you want, just like me. The animator and scripter need to respect each other. It's good you have someone to work with but what if they need to go away or have less free time? There is a big difference between "its not worth the effort" and "i dont have the free time".

 

It's great that you two have this working relationship but I think someone needs to oversee the handling with you and katzumi to get the information, along with all the other packs on one cwntral place with a decently detailed knowledge base/download page. Just take it one step further you know?

 

And I don't feel yoir blaming me but I do need to say that patience comes part of respect. I point out again that animators in the old days of sexalab 1.50 had to wait months between updates. Several months. We need to appreciate what we have better as a community. It will only serve to help creators feel more valued and inspired.

[ZXZXZX]

 

 

NSAP refers to pre-SLAL (sex lab animation loader) mod. A way of turning resources released by animators that were quite difficult to use into something easily installed and used in sexlab. 

 

Now to my point:

Yes. It would be fine. But maybe we could consider going further?

 

Would it be possible to somehow make a mod that would be packaged with sexlab, and automatically installed- remove the animations from sexlab framework, and make a mod that adds  them in a really simple and intuitive way. 

 

It would be more modular what now exists, and let us easily not install some of the older animations that aren't as smooth or interesting as the newer stuff. It would mean taking some load off Ashal, maybe? Things like tagging animations and default positioning could be made better, perhaps? 

 

Oh, and while the older stuff sometimes isn't as good as what we now have, I would like to thank every animator who ever did any of them. They were a great starting point.

 

Z.

 

I had considered creating a "blank slate" SexLabANimationDefaults script for SexLab but I never got the permission from Ashal. From my understanding, with Ashal adding some aniamtions from NSAP into SexLab, he wants it to come packaged with basic aniamtions already. That's from memory and understand and may not be entirely true, I just seem to recall reading something somewhere.

 

The problem with that is that some of the older mods actual call on animations by name. So removing them completely from SexLab creates and instant incompatability issue. And some of those mods are popular yet not updated.

 

NSAP was original considered a breather for SexLab as when it first arrived it would fill the gap between major SexLab updates by providing aniamtions at the earlist possible moment after they were released. But when aniamting became popular and updating became demanding I had to turn away from updating it as it was more a chore than a hobby. hence the arrival of SLAL on the scene. Now that animating has died down a bit, and the potential of having more than one person work on the aniamtio, it might become something that's mroe managable again.

 

The problem is we cannot really make a mod that installs each mod one by one. The mod needs to be scripted in someway. Even SLAL needs a script even though the language SLAL uses it considered much simplier than NSAP. So I cannot see at this time an easy solution to your suggestion. I did consider making a NSAP or SLAL library of all the required scripting and people would have to copy and paste in what they want it. If I was more experience in coding, I would have considered a list of the animations with links to screenshot/gif/video samples and a tick box next to them that a user can select and hit a generate button to provide a script/FNIS/HKX output but it's probably way above me and very time consuming.

 

Okay, this was a nice hour spent. Dinner time!

 

 

I am not saying sexlab shouldn't come with animations. I am suggesting they are a different package that is inclulded in the sexlab installation script. I know what a load of problems and help requests that would follow if the animations didn't just work out of gate.

 

Handling the by-name calling of animations is a problem, to which I see a few workarounds. First, obviously sexlab should handle a missing animation with a substitute. Finding the best one available is a more difficult thing (pattern matching for keywords comes to mind) , but if there is a template for a fix, patches to the popular legacy mods could be easy to make. 

 

About the list, something similar to Sexlab Director's Animation menu? It would be nice, but pretty much guaranteed to always be behind on times. 

[RmX93]

With the team allways better

Bigger and faster updates.

[Septemvile]

I'm new to SLAL, and have never used NSAP before. That being said, would it not make more sense to simply make one great SLAL-NSAP project? Like it's the same thing with how we have all these different animation packs. ZaZ and now FunnyBiz for Bondage/Rape/Beast. Like I realize that you modders do us non-modders a great service making the mods, and I know that there's always that element of pride to say "This is my project".

 

But more plugins make the game more unstable. It makes it more complex to fit all the different elements in place in the load order and make sure there are no conflicts with other mods. Can LoversLab not just say "Right, everyone here has there own tastes, but we all have certain things we agree on." When something is SO popular - like ZaZ' animations, can they not just be integrated with the Sexlab Framework as a whole? You are free to restart NSAP by yourself or with a team, as you wish. But wouldn't it make more sense to figuratively sit around the table with everyone that wants to contribute to NSAP or SLAL and hammer out a general animation loading utility? 

 

It just seems incredibly wasteful of both time and resources to run NSAP separately and not simply help develop SLAL if you're willing to put the time in to revive NSAP. Surely whatever problems SLAL has are not so egregious and so unsolvable that starting a different project entirely is better than fixing the problems SLAL has?

[rydin]

I'm new to SLAL, and have never used NSAP before. That being said, would it not make more sense to simply make one great SLAL-NSAP project? Like it's the same thing with how we have all these different animation packs. ZaZ and now FunnyBiz for Bondage/Rape/Beast. Like I realize that you modders do us non-modders a great service making the mods, and I know that there's always that element of pride to say "This is my project".

 

But more plugins make the game more unstable. It makes it more complex to fit all the different elements in place in the load order and make sure there are no conflicts with other mods. Can LoversLab not just say "Right, everyone here has there own tastes, but we all have certain things we agree on." When something is SO popular - like ZaZ' animations, can they not just be integrated with the Sexlab Framework as a whole? You are free to restart NSAP by yourself or with a team, as you wish. But wouldn't it make more sense to figuratively sit around the table with everyone that wants to contribute to NSAP or SLAL and hammer out a general animation loading utility? 

 

It just seems incredibly wasteful of both time and resources to run NSAP separately and not simply help develop SLAL if you're willing to put the time in to revive NSAP. Surely whatever problems SLAL has are not so egregious and so unsolvable that starting a different project entirely is better than fixing the problems SLAL has?

 

Where as your idea of merging everythng is good, if it was practical to do it would most likely have been done. Having individual mods means the author can take ownership and do updates when  and as needed. But say you put SexLab and Zaz together, if SexLab updates, the person working the Zaz end needs to have that update and vice versa, and they may be working on same scipts which are utlized in both mods and each person would need to update these adjustments. It's like joining two marathons together but they have different paths where at a couple of points the overlap each other, but they cannot use the same path as they have different dirctions they wish to take.

 

Modding is a fun thing to do but it has it's risks. We all hav to go about deciding where it might be best in our load order that a mod should be and it can get complex but we neither of us are the game developers, and I don't think the game developers made the game with a mod like SexLab and the other mods in mind. And just because it's popular doesn't mean it should buddy up with another mod. It will make the download for the mod even bigger for an expect of the mod some people may still not want. This is not a clear figure but I know some people don't like Zaz, so it might be that, let's say, 60% of the people who download SexLab like to use Zaz, but the other 40% have downloaded it for no reasons as they don't want it.

 

Where as I understand your statement saying it seems wasteful of resources, one thing you have to consider is I didn't make SLAL. and I'm not an answer scripter. I might be able to work SLAL if I broke it down and look at it's scripts then work on adjustments, but even NSAP only got to where it is now with all the help I got from such people as CPU. If I could help develop SLAL I would but I'm not familiar with it's workings. The main modder doesn;t have a strong persense on the board and I have worked on NSAP for well over a year and I am very familiar with my own work.

 

The main problem with SLAL is it needs management, which I have done in the past but I have stopped doing regularly so I can invest that time elsewhere.

 

Anyways, this topic doesn't really need much discussion as I have caught wind of somethng that will replace it. Based on what I've heard (which I cannot divuldge) there may still be a pack management concern. So I will take this back to the appropiate thread.

 

Can a moderator please close this thread for me? Thanks!

 

[Papajack55]

Could we at least get the last working copy you have back up until then? That would be ok at least until it cums out.

[rydin]

Could we at least get the last working copy you have back up until then? That would be ok at least until it cums out.

 

NSAP downloads are already there? The download page is in my signature.