[CLOSED] NSAP Revival

[rydin]

UPDATE: I HAVE CAUGHT WIND OF A PROJECT THAT WILL REPLACE THE NEED FOR THESE TWO MODS BUT I CANNOT DISCUSS THE DETAILS AT THIS TIME. THANK YOU EVERY ONE FOR YOUR THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS. I WILL TAKE THE ISSUE OF PACK MANAGEMENT BACK TO THE SLAL THREADS. THIS THREAD IS TO BE CLOSED.

 

Since putting NSAP on hiatus, I've been watching the SLAL threads for a while. They seem moderately successful, but (in my honest opinion) it's started to get really messy. Truth be told I expected this. As packs start coming left right and center and it hasn't entirely replaced the requirement for NSAP as I originally hoped it would. SLAL has it's limitations as well and there doesn't seem to be very much support given to the base mod ss to the packs themselves. It feels rather unmanaged and I don't have the time to be checing other people's work all the time. If one person wishes to take onwership and manage SLAL, go ahead. I can give them all the information I have.

 

I have considered for a while the potential of reviving NSAP. I have been building myself the perfect SexLab animation directory by modding the direct scripts but at the same time this means I am building up a script library. The amount of animations being made has heavily slowed down and is probably managable.

 

Now I can either do this solo like before and have the help of the community to answer support questions and such or I thought I could gather a small team, a group of people I can show how to set up the NSAP and FNIS scripts for who can send me over the updates and I can compile them and release them (easier if one person manages releases for version stability). I'd be happy to talk them through how to set up the scripts for NSAP and what I need for a successful release, essentially splitting the workload.

 

Either that I can leave NSAP on hiatus and let SLAL continue it's path.

 

Any comments, suggestions and such I'd love to hear.

 

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So, here is a good question. Who wants to be part of that team? Who is willing to learn how to script up NSAP (with my support obviously) and how to prepare the scripts for me to compile and release? I promise you it's easier than you probably think.

 

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UPDATE: @17:27PM 06/04/2016

 

Here is a general run down of what I'm hearing:

 

- People want a group of people to work on the one mod to keep it up to date and maintained. Wither it be NSAP or SLAL.

 

- People are telling me that it's hard to find the packs, yet so far no-one has volunteered to manage a post/thread which will have all the pack links and updates. It's always "someone should..." but no-one wants to be that someone.

 

- People are telling me there is no current list of packs. Yet some have also point out the post I have made which about 90% of the packs (I think I haven't got one or two on the lsit). So this comes down to people reading the information available for them to read. (I have went and edited the main thread and out it at the top of the page to be more clearl.

 

- People want things to be really easy, simple and fast with little work needed to be done by the end-user. Which sadly may not completely be possible as some work and pateince is always needed from the end-user but it's something to consider.

 

 

[Kimy]

I was sad hearing that NSAP wouldn't be updated any further back then, and I would be delighted to see it back. Truth be told - coordination matters.

[Guest]

I sooooooooooo wish to see NSAP revived.... Please....

[Aria]

I would really love to see NSAP coming back, not a while ago i went to try the new animations provided from SLAL and was left in complete chaos, the animation packs are all over the site and some even share similar names but are released by different people.

I was scratching my head the whole time trying to figure out wich pack is wich.

 

I guess getting a few people helping you out with NSAP would be a good thing, if not, there should be atleast one topic with all the packs put together and managed by someone.

[Guest ffabris]

I was sad hearing that NSAP wouldn't be updated any further back then, and I would be delighted to see it back. Truth be told - coordination matters.

 

This.

 

I think a team is better, if only because it takes the load off one person's shoulders.

 

I appreciate the work all modders do, because it takes so much time, and there is so little tangible reward beyond the few who take the time to say thanks. So in that regard, I appreciate the work that was put into SLAL. But a single, central mod seems, to me, to be a better option... for those who play the game.

 

Thanks Rydin for asking for opinions.

[shadowlord445]

NSAP is just so much easier to deal with than SLAL and all of the packs.

[multfilm]

As of this moment SLAL too messy and finding animations for it too boring. I think NSAP much better and stable, so please bring it back!

[27X]

The simple paradigm is most people, especially those whom peruse here, cannot use SLAL or even JC to save their lives.

 

All you have to do is look at stuff like adding xmls to bodies.

 

For every person that goes "oh, ok, just like so" and does it themselves, there are literally 100 that go "AND NOW MY SKYRIM IS ON FIRE AND FUCK MY LIFE ABALDHLADJLAFJOBKHFK(*&@(*&($*&!(*1111."

 

Literally.

 

Honestly I would get with the "reduce script instances team" to produce two things:

 

1. an integrated low-instance "standard" pack for canned anims.

 

2. a fomod style installation method where stuff you don't want never gets loaded to begin with; whilst there are a "lot" more animators than before, I can see why people aren't going to be putting certain anims ever in their playthroughs for rather obvious reasons.

 

The more user friendly it is, the happier a skyrim experience more people will have, and NSAP is already on that track. (and SLAL really isn't)

[pushto]

I prefer using SLAL over NSAP since I like to keep things in one place.

[Guest]

As SLAL continues to live in parallel, because I need it.

I'm autonomous and not need to wait someone to make a "pack",.. etc.

I would never start animations in skyrim without this tool.

Having no knowledge into script, honestly I probably would have spent my way.. hmm not probably,.. just spent my way and go on Sfm. lol

 

For the end user it's simpler with NSAP, but I never had any particular problems with SLAL either.

 

... if not, there should be atleast one topic with all the packs put together and managed by someone.

 

I agree, maybe someone can gather them in a topic but without support for clarity, support and questions of eventual problems will continue to be on the respective topics.

Animators can go post links and it would be more clear and easy to find for everyone.

I do not expect the person peels the forum, but animators brings him the contents.

 

[winny257]

I can not vote, I do not know what *NSAP* is?
if a D would contain, then I knew it.
NSAP + D = NSDAP = NATIONAL SOCIALIST DEMOCRATIC PARTY = Nazis   

[ZXZXZX]

NSAP refers to pre-SLAL (sex lab animation loader) mod. A way of turning resources released by animators that were quite difficult to use into something easily installed and used in sexlab. 

 

Now to my point:

Yes. It would be fine. But maybe we could consider going further?

 

Would it be possible to somehow make a mod that would be packaged with sexlab, and automatically installed- remove the animations from sexlab framework, and make a mod that adds  them in a really simple and intuitive way. 

 

It would be more modular what now exists, and let us easily not install some of the older animations that aren't as smooth or interesting as the newer stuff. It would mean taking some load off Ashal, maybe? Things like tagging animations and default positioning could be made better, perhaps? 

 

Oh, and while the older stuff sometimes isn't as good as what we now have, I would like to thank every animator who ever did any of them. They were a great starting point.

 

Z.

[shinji72]

SLAL pros: very quick and timely updates
Cons: you've to proactively looks for the updates, following each animator thread.

I guess if you're willing to take again the torch, NSAP is a lot simpler and user friendlier for the casual users.

[rydin]

I would really love to see NSAP coming back, not a while ago i went to try the new animations provided from SLAL and was left in complete chaos, the animation packs are all over the site and some even share similar names but are released by different people. I was scratching my head the whole time trying to figure out wich pack is wich. I guess getting a few people helping you out with NSAP would be a good thing, if not, there should be atleast one topic with all the packs put together and managed by someone.

 

All the packs I know about are combined into this post so there is something out there. But in my eyes, each pack maker should be held accountable for providing a full detailed breakdown of what their pack holds and provide feedback and support to the people using it. And the user has to take accountability for their own learning too. That's why there are support forums for them. Packs should be free of personal choices and should aligned to the framework and vanilla came as much as possible.

 

The thing is the door has always been open for someone to come pick up the ball and really start "managing" the packs. But it's such a minefield with different packs, versions, edits and such, it's like asking one person to look after ten mods, each with their own requirements and specifications. To be able to provide for ten different packs which each have different updates at different times with some more often than others. They don't work on the mod directly but have expected to manage the updates. But I don't feel people are really work as a team on a community effort when it comes to pack. I don't think people are really talking to each other.  This is my own opinion and I may be very wrong.

 

If someone really wanted to take that challenge, I would assume someone would have done it by now instead of being made as a constant suggestion in the support threads. But if anyone wants to do that, go ahead and start it up i say!

 

 

I was sad hearing that NSAP wouldn't be updated any further back then, and I would be delighted to see it back. Truth be told - coordination matters.

 

This.

 

I think a team is better, if only because it takes the load off one person's shoulders.

 

I appreciate the work all modders do, because it takes so much time, and there is so little tangible reward beyond the few who take the time to say thanks. So in that regard, I appreciate the work that was put into SLAL. But a single, central mod seems, to me, to be a better option... for those who play the game.

 

Thanks Rydin for asking for opinions.

 

 

I have been thinking about it for a while and when I started building my own SexLab directory, I gave it more thought. it seemed so much more organized. Sometimes I ran into problems when using the packs and I think someone commented in the thread that there was a heavy delay when switching scenes (which I experienced) but there was lack of answers and support.

 

I don't want to come barging in and say "SLAL is rubbish, let's go back to my NSAP mod!" No. That is not the intention. And especially when as you said there is sometimes very little reward for the amount of time invested in modding. I wanted to give the community an opportunity to tell me what they think and what their needs are. In the end, NSAP may not get revived. Or maybe the best bits from NSAP and SLAL may get combined. But I thought that be giving the community a voice, I can hear how people feel and see what we can bring about from it. There are some interesting ideas in this thread. But how they will work is another hurdle to tackle.

 

The simple paradigm is most people, especially those whom peruse here, cannot use SLAL or even JC to save their lives.

 

All you have to do is look at stuff like adding xmls to bodies.

 

For every person that goes "oh, ok, just like so" and does it them selves, there are literally 100 that go "AND NOW MY SKYRIM IS ON FIRE AND FUCK MY LIFE ABALDHLADJLAFJOBKHFK(*&@(*&($*&!(*1111."

 

Literally.

 

Honestly I would get with the "reduce script instances team" to produce two things:

 

1. an integrated low-instance "standard" pack for canned anims.

 

2. a fomod style installation method where stuff you don't want never gets loaded to begin with; whilst there are a "lot" more animators than before, I can see why people aren't going to be putting certain anims ever in their playthroughs for rather obvious reasons.

 

The more user friendly it is, the happier a skyrim experience more people will have, and NSAP is already on that track. (and SLAL really isn't)

 

NSAP and SLAL both have very similar concepts; they allow the user to decide what animations they wish to register to SexLab. The problem with NSAP is that you download one large mod that installs all the animations into the FNIS registery regardless if you end up only using 75% in your SexLab.

 SLAL looked to be the evolution from this with the ability to only download certain packs by animators you want, but I think for a good majority of people, they download every pack anyways and only omit maybe a couple from each animator. For those who understood how to create their own packs using the python generator but not able to compile NSAP or SexLab scripts would have benefited from this as they could make their own personal packs with what they really wanted. 

 

A FOMOD could possibly be made for SLAL but it can only be for the individual packs. But that isn't really much different from how the individual packs work now. The difference is you download one zip and pick which packs you want or you go to a page with packs and you download which ones you want. Result is the same. The only one benefit I can see over individual download packs is the users can easier manage them in mod organizers and clearly see what is installed and what isn't installed instead of a FOMOD.

 

 

I prefer using SLAL over NSAP since I like to keep things in one place.

 

Not sure if you meant to say NSAP over SLAL? But hey ho. If yours is the right way round, I respect your opinion. :DDD

 

 

As SLAL continues to live in parallel, because I need it.

I'm autonomous and not need to wait someone to make a "pack",.. etc.

I would never start animations in skyrim without this tool.

Having no knowledge into script, honestly I probably would have spent my way.. hmm not probably,.. just spent my way and go on Sfm. lol

 

For the end user it's simpler with NSAP, but I never had any particular problems with SLAL either.

 

... if not, there should be atleast one topic with all the packs put together and managed by someone.

 

I agree, maybe someone can gather them in a topic but without support for clarity, support and questions of eventual problems will continue to be on the respective topics.

Animators can go post links and it would be more clear and easy to find for everyone.

I do not expect the person peels the forum, but animators brings him the contents.

 

 

SLAL was probably built with people like yourself in mind. It gives a lot more freedom to create packs and lets the user manage the animations they wish to add themselves. You don't need to wait for anymoe else to update and you can make your own perfect packs to your own specific requirements.

 

As said above, it is mentioned that "someone" can gather them in a topic. That's open to anyone, even yourself! But someone needs to be prepared to invest the time into that management. It is purely voluntary work (unless you get a donate button or patreon or something, heh). I betcha out there some people have probably even went "If they won't do it, why should I?" It's no good saying someone should if no-one actually wants to. Heh heh

 

I should also point out this is all voluntary. When I started NSAP, i wasn't notified of every new animator that came out but when they did come out, i took the respobnsility to keep an eye on the trhead, wither through subscribing for updates or bookmarking. It was actually fans of the aniamtor (Leito fan's you know who you are) who tormented told me, sometimes on numerous occassions when he had updated (at one point only him, as if they didn't care about the work other people were doing), even though i knew it had been updated as I could clearly see the same thread they updated. Sometimes animators will tell the modder, sometimes they don't, but I would not expect their to be any requirement. But I don't think there is an spilt milk over that. Someone will always post in a thread to alert people who aren't aware (it's how I found out about SirNibbles for example). But if that person is ahppy to take that responsiblity hen so be it.

 

NSAP refers to pre-SLAL (sex lab animation loader) mod. A way of turning resources released by animators that were quite difficult to use into something easily installed and used in sexlab. 

 

Now to my point:

Yes. It would be fine. But maybe we could consider going further?

 

Would it be possible to somehow make a mod that would be packaged with sexlab, and automatically installed- remove the animations from sexlab framework, and make a mod that adds  them in a really simple and intuitive way. 

 

It would be more modular what now exists, and let us easily not install some of the older animations that aren't as smooth or interesting as the newer stuff. It would mean taking some load off Ashal, maybe? Things like tagging animations and default positioning could be made better, perhaps? 

 

Oh, and while the older stuff sometimes isn't as good as what we now have, I would like to thank every animator who ever did any of them. They were a great starting point.

 

Z.

 

I had considered creating a "blank slate" SexLabANimationDefaults script for SexLab but I never got the permission from Ashal. From my understanding, with Ashal adding some aniamtions from NSAP into SexLab, he wants it to come packaged with basic aniamtions already. That's from memory and understand and may not be entirely true, I just seem to recall reading something somewhere.

 

The problem with that is that some of the older mods actual call on animations by name. So removing them completely from SexLab creates and instant incompatability issue. And some of those mods are popular yet not updated.

 

NSAP was original considered a breather for SexLab as when it first arrived it would fill the gap between major SexLab updates by providing aniamtions at the earlist possible moment after they were released. But when aniamting became popular and updating became demanding I had to turn away from updating it as it was more a chore than a hobby. hence the arrival of SLAL on the scene. Now that animating has died down a bit, and the potential of having more than one person work on the aniamtio, it might become something that's mroe managable again.

 

The problem is we cannot really make a mod that installs each mod one by one. The mod needs to be scripted in someway. Even SLAL needs a script even though the language SLAL uses it considered much simplier than NSAP. So I cannot see at this time an easy solution to your suggestion. I did consider making a NSAP or SLAL library of all the required scripting and people would have to copy and paste in what they want it. If I was more experience in coding, I would have considered a list of the animations with links to screenshot/gif/video samples and a tick box next to them that a user can select and hit a generate button to provide a script/FNIS/HKX output but it's probably way above me and very time consuming.

 

Okay, this was a nice hour spent. Dinner time!

[Guest]

.......

If they won't do it, why should I?" It's no good saying someone should if no-one actually wants to. Heh heh

 

I should also point out this is all voluntary. When I started NSAP, i wasn't notified of every new animator that came out but when they did come out, i took the respobnsility to keep an eye on the trhead, wither through subscribing for updates or bookmarking. It was actually fans of the aniamtor (Leito fan's you know who you are) who tormented told me, sometimes on numerous occassions when he had updated (at one point only him, as if they didn't care about the work other people were doing), even though i knew it had been updated as I could clearly see the same thread they updated. Sometimes animators will tell the modder, sometimes they don't, but I would not expect their to be any requirement. But I don't think there is an spilt milk over that. Someone will always post in a thread to alert people who aren't aware (it's how I found out about SirNibbles for example). But if that person is ahppy to take that responsiblity hen so be it.

 

Hehe lol. 

 

Honestly I'd like to.

Unfortunately I have really much less time after this week (big days work begins again).

It will be difficult to juggle my "trinkets" with that in addition.

 

With only 1 to 2 hours of free time I'll have to optimize at best to move forward in my animation.

I make stages from 1700 to more than 3700 frames (10 stages planned), it's not really possible to do much things in 2 hours. lol

Or have to completely stop sleep...  Time passes too quickly. ><

 

So it remains a place for a happy volunteer. 

[chajapa]

I never switched over to SLAL. I got spoiled by how easy rydin made this for us and SLAL sounded like too much work stitching things together. In fairness, maybe it's not. I never tried.

 

Been working with CPU beta testing Scent of Sex. Been playing a lot less and ....."testing" a lot more *wink!*

 

Do you have a list of volunteers yet?

[rydin]

Do you have a list of volunteers yet?

 

Not a single one

With only 1 to 2 hours of free time I'll have to optimize at best to move forward in my animation.

 

I know that feeling oh so well.

 

[romualda5]

I really like NSAP. It is simple to use. SLAL is more difficult, and for this you need to download additional packages with animations Sometimes they also have esp as when a large number of modes is trouble. I always want to try new animations than NSAP  should be upgrade.

[spoonsinger]

History as far as I can tell, (from an outside perspective),

 

NSAP - fab but relied on one person to curate and there was getting a real lag on the turn around of included animations.

SLAL - fab but has had very poor/free form curation relying on the standard LL forum philosophy of go and look around for new stuff. (It's there and it's fun to look for).

 

Both have problems because of their different philosophy base.

 

However saying that, (and being one of the very few 'No - SLAL is fine as it is.'), SLAL, (once the latest Sexlab came out), gave me extremely fast access to a shed load of animations very quickly. Yes I had to look for them, but hey whats time for?. It was nice having NSAP because there was someone to point a finger at, (actually never did this), and say "Hey that's not right", however the turnaround was a tad slow. SLAL just does the job in that respect.

 

So what I'm saying, in a rambling sort way, is that NSAP seems to be curated SLAL. (Which is good, but it shouldn't push out the free form, even if the free form is a bit higgly piggly at this time - this could be solved).

 

Maybe there should have been another vote option of "We like both NSAP & SLAL but for different reasons".

[Nazzzgul666]

I never switched over to SLAL. I got spoiled by how easy rydin made this for us and SLAL sounded like too much work stitching things together. In fairness, maybe it's not. I never tried.

 

Been working with CPU beta testing Scent of Sex. Been playing a lot less and ....."testing" a lot more *wink!*

 

Do you have a list of volunteers yet?

 

It's not that hard, thanks to the guys who make packs. The biggest problem is finding all the packs. Everything else is not complicated, download, install, register, just ike in NSAP.

So, imho it's not urgent to resurrect NSAP, but i'd appreciate it nevertheless because there i can chose animations by tags. But i wouldn't demand it just because i'm too lazy to sort them out manually

[Findri]

 

 

Since putting NSAP on hiatus, I've been watching the SLAL threads for a while. They seem moderately successful, but (in my honest opinion) it's started to get really messy. Truth be told I expected this. As packs start coming left right and center and it hasn't entirely replaced the requirement for NSAP as I originally hoped it would. SLAL has it's limitations as well and there doesn't seem to be very much support given to the base mod ss to the packs themselves. It feels rather unmanaged and I don't have the time to be checing other people's work all the time. If one person wishes to take onwership and manage SLAL, go ahead. I can give them all the information I have.

 

I have considered for a while the potential of reviving NSAP. I have been building myself the perfect SexLab animation directory by modding the direct scripts but at the same time this means I am building up a script library. The amount of animations being made has heavily slowed down and is probably managable.

 

Now I can either do this solo like before and have the help of the community to answer support questions and such or I thought I could gather a small team, a group of people I can show how to set up the NSAP and FNIS scripts for who can send me over the updates and I can compile them and release them (easier if one person manages releases for version stability). I'd be happy to talk them through how to set up the scripts for NSAP and what I need for a successful release, essentially splitting the workload.

 

Either that I can leave NSAP on hiatus and let SLAL continue it's path.

 

Any comments, suggestions and such I'd love to hear.

 

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EDIT: by the way, current results! (at 1730BST)

1. Yes - please bring NSAP out of hiatus and have one person manage it. (44 votes [39.64%])
2. Yes - please bring NSAP out of hiatus but make a team of modders for it (59 votes [53.15%])
3. No - SLAL is fine as it is. (8 votes [7.21%])

So, here is a good question. Who wants to be part of that team? Who is willing to learn how to script up NSAP (with my support obviously) and how to prepare the scripts for me to compile and release? I promise you it's easier than you probably think.

You should include an option in the poll:

 

4. I dont know - I havent tried SLAL yet

 

I love NSAP , but as a semi-dedicated skyrim player-modder, I´d love trying new things, and learning to creat mods and tweaking by MYSELF, even when most often I dont have enough time to spend playing or modding my game... I will definetly give SLAL a try this weekend and see how it works... then I will vote

[zzz72w3r]

Although I voted for a team revival of NSAP, I am kinda on the fence about it. 

 

On my end I like that packs are built for specific animators with SLAL which is easier to manage since the number of animations have surged.

 

However, on the sourcing end it is getting messy with packs floating all over the place, many are buried in posts rather than their own threads.  More so that animations from original NSAP never made it into respected animators packs so that NSAP is still necessary. 

 

My personal hopeful alternatives would be:

1. All-in-One NSAP with FOMOD installer scheme, ideally with reference pics included for the animations.

2. Break NSAP down and merge its animations into respected SLAL packs by animator.  All the packs will be in a single thread, preferably managed by a team in case someone needs to bail for more important things like RL.

 

Regardless I feel guilty even complaining about such first-world-problem

[Leito86]

My attention is on SFM and other things atm so I won't be massive dumps like I use to.  I would say you're free to incorporate my SLAL pack but they're all creature stuff...

[Jimcarry]

I want one of my animations to be in your mod.

[rydin]

Although I voted for a team revival of NSAP, I am kinda on the fence about it.

 

On my end I like that packs are built for specific animators with SLAL which is easier to manage since the number of animations have surged.

 

However, on the sourcing end it is getting messy with packs floating all over the place, many are buried in posts rather than their own threads. More so that animations from original NSAP never made it into respected animators packs so that NSAP is still necessary.

 

My personal hopeful alternatives would be:

1. All-in-One NSAP with FOMOD installer scheme, ideally with reference pics included for the animations.

2. Break NSAP down and merge its animations into respected SLAL packs by animator. All the packs will be in a single thread, preferably managed by a team in case someone needs to bail for more important things like RL.

 

Regardless I feel guilty even complaining about such first-world-problem

 

Option one has too much to it. If NSAP is remade it won't need FOMOD if it is a full install. Plus a japanese user made a visual guide for NSAP on a blog (easily readable, it got the animation mames in english) which covered off all animations in NSAP.

 

If someone wants to make reference pics ot is probably easily done but most people just play them once in game then decide. Might be a task you can do as part of the team if you want it to happen.

 

Option 2 is very much doable but you need to find that team leader who will do all the managing and the team who will work the packs. And it needs to be those volunteers who work together and decide how they are goong to manage it.

 

On a side note to that, there is a lot for getting a team for NSAP but there has been no volunteers. Also no-one has volunteered to manage the SLAL packs. Theres a lot of "I would like to see", "I want this" "This would be good if..." etc with noone actually stepping up to take these roles.