[CLOSED] NSAP Revival

[chajapa]

ok, I'm willing to volunteer. I have no idea what it takes to make NSAP move, but I've done some modding and hell, I USE the animations, so....

 

Can we get into a PM discussion and see if I can help? I have used FNIS_for_modders but it was quite a while ago so I'd need to read the docs again if that's part of it.

 

Scripting.... not my strong suit, but have done a little and I suspect there's not much scripting that isn't repetitive variations .

 

Anyways. I'm open to at least exploring whether or not I can be of real assistance.

 

[dales69]

Rydin

 

   Many of the postings have been about the packs being hard to find, and not knowing how to install correctly.

 

   Could a Moderator take the posting with the complete pack listings, and a simplified set of installation instructions, and add as a sticky post?

 

   Should make everything easy to find, and eliminate some of the repetitive posting.

 

   If the pack listings are kept updated, it might be a simple solution.

 

 

      Dales69

[srayesmanll]

Rydin

 

   Many of the postings have been about the packs being hard to find, and not knowing how to install correctly.

 

   Could a Moderator take the posting with the complete pack listings, and a simplified set of installation instructions, and add as a sticky post?

 

   Should make everything easy to find, and eliminate some of the repetitive posting.

 

   If the pack listings are kept updated, it might be a simple solution.

 

 

      Dales69

 

Maybe look here:  http://www.loverslab.com/topic/55268-sexlab-animation-loader-guide-and-packs/

 

Written by the same author as this thread.  Look in the second post - links to the popular packs.  With a link to the SLAL download page with the prerequisites there (SexLab, JContainer, FNIS).  The info is already there are in a central spot.  Maybe just pin that thread (Moderators?).

[pushto]

 

I prefer using SLAL over NSAP since I like to keep things in one place.

 

Not sure if you meant to say NSAP over SLAL? But hey ho. If yours is the right way round, I respect your opinion. :DDD

 

 

 

 

Lemme clarify: I would prefer using the loader over NSAP - Just feels easier & simpler that way.

[Guest]

 

So, here is a good question. Who wants to be part of that team? Who is willing to learn how to script up NSAP (with my support obviously) and how to prepare the scripts for me to compile and release? I promise you it's easier than you probably think.

 

You can count on me, @rydin, as usual.

For defining the animations, assuring the tag coherence, updating the MCM, and the anim registration system.

[Kinky]

If you are going to make a team of modders working on this then why not give NSAP real update.

By that i mean dont continue what you were doing, instead simplify things even further so that people can easier include extra packs or animations. Or in short make it better.

[Prolific]

I'm new to both NSAP and SLAL, but with the 65000ish string limit of papyrus, my vote is toward SLAL simply because you can decided what is loaded and what is not. Can you do the same thing with NSAP and I'm just not aware? Or, does SLAL use stings whether I load the specific animation or not? I can adapt to either method.

[Guest]

I'm new to both NSAP and SLAL, but with the 65000ish string limit of papyrus, my vote is toward SLAL simply because you can decided what is loaded and what is not. Can you do the same thing with NSAP and I'm just not aware? Or, does SLAL use stings whether I load the specific animation or not? I can adapt to either method.

 

Both NSAP and SLAL use very little strings. (And strings are NOT limited to 64K units, variables are.)

And NSAP uses less than a dozen variables. SLAL use a little bit more, but still a negligible amount of them.

[rydin]

If you are going to make a team of modders working on this then why not give NSAP real update.

By that i mean dont continue what you were doing, instead simplify things even further so that people can easier include extra packs or animations. Or in short make it better.

 

SLAL is already that. So if that's what people prefer, there is no need for NSAP.

 

[sfeile]

I didn't vote because I like both.

 

I like that you kept everything in one download and easy to find, (and that you even tried to keep all the SLAL packs easy to find.) I like having the little bit of time I get to play being used to play. I enjoy the forums and try to contribute a little when I can, but don't like hunting to see who all has updated what for 2 hours and only getting to play for 30 minutes.

 

  I do, however like the options with SLAL in being able to choose the packs that you want. It helps keep the number down (and the list size) with not having to include an entire pack of unwanted/unused animations. Heck, if funnybiz doesn't get back to work soon, he is going to run us out of room himself.

 

I do NOT want to sound like I am complaining at all, I really do appreciate ALL of the work and help that a great number of people provide here. It continues to keep the game interesting and fun.

 

I didn't volunteer to help because I tried multiple times, even trying your guide for it, but could never even figure out how to make my own packs. I would be pretty much useless to you as I know less than nothing about modding.

 

 

[rydin]

I didn't volunteer to help because I tried multiple times, even trying your guide for it, but could never even figure out how to make my own packs. I would be pretty much useless to you as I know less than nothing about modding.

 

Understandable but I will say that the difference between using a guide and what I'm proposing is that I would support the team more directly on a 1-2-1 basis through PM. I knew nothing about modding when I started, but it was that desire to learn that I am where I am today. I'm not trying to recruit you but don't let your lack of knowledge deter you if you are willing to learn and give it a go. And that goes to anyone.

The simple paradigm is most people, especially those whom peruse here, cannot use SLAL or even JC to save their lives.

 

I have to say though this is an unfair comment. it might be true in some aspect but I don't think it covers "most" people. There will be people here wo can use SLAL perfectly fine but desire the better structure and management that NSAP provided.

 

SLAL is good on it's own, but it lacks proper management and is all down to the user to do.

 

I want one of my animations to be in your mod.

 

If NSAP is done it can be arranged. If we stick with SLAL then someone can arrange that for you.

[Veladarius]

I installed this some time ago and have not switched it out for anything else as of yet, have not seen the need to.

[Shadowscale]

I prefer NSAP (haven't fully played with SLAL yet tbh, but setting it up today although I think I still will keep NSAP loaded too). It's sort of a one stop find all. While I don't use every animation listed in it I can pick and choose the ones I wished to try to see how they look. With SLAL packs I have to have an idea what the animations look like before I try installing them to see if they are what I like.

[Guest]

I love NSAP a lot. Still have 3.1 version. If Rydin think that I can help, I would gladly do it.

[zaira]

I prefer SLAL - it saves .esp slots

[-alpha-]

I like both NSAP and SLAL and use both...

TBH I think the NSAP approach is better for the majority of users.

Where SLAL nice and more modular...it might be a bit more advanced and will seem daunting for some.

 

I on the other than prefer one mod to rule them all.

So if NSAP was revived and all anims were in once place, Sweet.

[srayesmanll]

I prefer SLAL - it saves .esp slots

 

OK, NSAP has one esp, SLAL use one esp.  So how does having only one of those mods available "save .esp slots", since the point of this thread seems to be to drop one or the other?  And if you use one of the packs that has anim objects, you need the anim object .esp - a second esp for SLAL.  So that's 2 esp required for SLAL while NSAP only needs 1.  Seems to me dropping SLAL for NSAP would save esps, not the other way around.

 

 

As for the real question of this thread -

Frankly I haven't voted because I see no reason not to have both.  SLAL is an excellent way if getting newly created animations into the game quickly.  NSAP is great because it's managed & not subject to the whims of whomever made the pack for SLAL.  But since this poll/thread seems to be geared toward the idea of dropping one or the other, let me make a suggestion: 

 

What the poll needs is a 4th option - merging the 2 mods.  A single esp (nods to zaira) that has the main NSAP code and animations plus the ability to pull animations from a pack like SLAL does.  This would lessen the requests for a new version of NSAP whenever an animator puts out a new set of animations (yeah...right ), allowing the NSAP developers (Rydin) to not spend all of their time working only on NSAP updates, especially since lately guys like FunnyBizness seem to drop anis like ducks drop, well... droppings. 

 

If the vote ends up going towards the SLAL side, someone needs to take the existing animations in NSAP and make them into SLAL pack(s).

[rydin]

I prefer SLAL - it saves .esp slots

 

Actually, SLAL can use more esp slots ie, the Leito one Fore Runner made requires an additional ESP to make the animobjects, so that's a total two ESP slots to NSAP's one. Just thought I'd point that fact.

[zaira]

You're right - I have forgotten the add ons

[Guest]

 

...snip...

 

 

What the poll needs is a 4th option - merging the 2 mods.  A single esp (nods to zaira) that has the main NSAP code and animations plus the ability to pull animations from a pack like SLAL does.  This would lessen the requests for a new version of NSAP whenever an animator puts out a new set of animations (yeah...right ), allowing the NSAP developers (Rydin) to not spend all of their time working only on NSAP updates, especially since lately guys like FunnyBizness seem to drop anis like ducks drop, well... droppings. 

 

 

I completely subscribe on this.

And I also have a way (right now a proof of concept) that gives to NSAP the ability to read animations plugins from a file.

So technically the latest anims can be added by just creating a text file. (But we need the very latest PapyrusUtil to be able to do that, so only SL 1.61b will be supported.)

[rydin]

 

I prefer SLAL - it saves .esp slots

 

OK, NSAP has one esp, SLAL use one esp.  So how does having only one of those mods available "save .esp slots", since the point of this thread seems to be to drop one or the other?  And if you use one of the packs that has anim objects, you need the anim object .esp - a second esp for SLAL.  So that's 2 esp required for SLAL while NSAP only needs 1.  Seems to me dropping SLAL for NSAP would save esps, not the other way around.

 

 

As for the real question of this thread -

Frankly I haven't voted because I see no reason not to have both.  SLAL is an excellent way if getting newly created animations into the game quickly.  NSAP is great because it's managed & not subject to the whims of whomever made the pack for SLAL.  But since this poll/thread seems to be geared toward the idea of dropping one or the other, let me make a suggestion: 

 

What the poll needs is a 4th option - merging the 2 mods.  A single esp (nods to zaira) that has the main NSAP code and animations plus the ability to pull animations from a pack like SLAL does.  This would lessen the requests for a new version of NSAP whenever an animator puts out a new set of animations (yeah...right ), allowing the NSAP developers (Rydin) to not spend all of their time working only on NSAP updates, especially since lately guys like FunnyBizness seem to drop anis like ducks drop, well... droppings. 

 

If the vote ends up going towards the SLAL side, someone needs to take the existing animations in NSAP and make them into SLAL pack(s).

 

 

My intention isn't to make people use one or the other. My intention more is to bring a better structure. I have no idea what SLAL's owner is doing but they don't seem to have much of a presence in supporting the mod from what I can see, and most people are crying out for structure and better guidance. I have my preference over working on a mod I spent a year on than working on someone else's mod that I'm not familiar with the core scripts for. That's why I'd say I'd consider bringing NSAP out of hiatus and working no it again to give that structure.

 

If someone brings a much better structure and manages SLAL, we wouldn't need this conversation. I started doing it before but I don't have much of a dialy presence here any more so I choose to stop managing it. Just no-one has found it in themselves to pick up the torch. I knew from the very beginning of SLAL that at some point, this discussion would happen.

 

I have been working on directly edit SexLab scripts to add and remove the animations I want to negate my need for NSAP or SLAL, but in doing so, I am building a library of animation fuctions that can easily be ported to NSAP as the coding is really the same unlike SLAL that needs a bit of rewrite. Since I'm doing some ground work, I only wanted to provide the forum with an option and consider the results to if I will proceed. There's no requirement for people to go to NSAP over SLAL, users need to make their own choice in that regard.

 

The option of merging SLAL and NSAP has been mentioned to me privately, just as you said. But my thoughts are, we already have that fuction. That is basically what SLAL is. Someone just needs to make a pack for the remaining animations in NSAP. Merging the two and having that ability to add the packs means the core mod won't really need much modular work and again, the packs need to be managed. I cannot see it as a solution when it's what we have right now. It's cool that the fuctionality can be made into NSAP, but once that's done, in my eyes, isn't it really just another SLAL?

 

Ignore that. Got a PM that explained how this could be better, and I've already started considering how this would work.

[27X]

 

I didn't volunteer to help because I tried multiple times, even trying your guide for it, but could never even figure out how to make my own packs. I would be pretty much useless to you as I know less than nothing about modding.

 

Understandable but I will say that the difference between using a guide and what I'm proposing is that I would support the team more directly on a 1-2-1 basis through PM. I knew nothing about modding when I started, but it was that desire to learn that I am where I am today. I'm not trying to recruit you but don't let your lack of knowledge deter you if you are willing to learn and give it a go. And that goes to anyone.

The simple paradigm is most people, especially those whom peruse here, cannot use SLAL or even JC to save their lives.

 

I have to say though this is an unfair comment. it might be true in some aspect but I don't think it covers "most" people. There will be people here wo can use SLAL perfectly fine but desire the better structure and management that NSAP provided.

 

SLAL is good on it's own, but it lacks proper management and is all down to the user to do.

 

I want one of my animations to be in your mod.

 

If NSAP is done it can be arranged. If we stick with SLAL then someone can arrange that for you.

 

 

Except it's true.

 

Look at the HDT section and compare the number of help requests and frustrated posts versus the number of people posting positive results, look at the number of posts in the AIOAP thread thanking the author for putting everything together so that people who couldn't do ti themselves could enjoy it, and yet there are still a very significant people in said thread having issues.

 

It's simply how it is.

 

 

...snip...

 

 

What the poll needs is a 4th option - merging the 2 mods.  A single esp (nods to zaira) that has the main NSAP code and animations plus the ability to pull animations from a pack like SLAL does.  This would lessen the requests for a new version of NSAP whenever an animator puts out a new set of animations (yeah...right ), allowing the NSAP developers (Rydin) to not spend all of their time working only on NSAP updates, especially since lately guys like FunnyBizness seem to drop anis like ducks drop, well... droppings. 

 

 

I completely subscribe on this.

And I also have a way (right now a proof of concept) that gives to NSAP the ability to read animations plugins from a file.

So technically the latest anims can be added by just creating a text file. (But we need the very latest PapyrusUtil to be able to do that, so only SL 1.61b will be supported.)

 

 

Excellent idea.

 

[valcon767]

got to say love the work of both mods (yes I use both)

 

but would really love to see NSAP be updated again (with a team of modders sending the work to one person to be put out as stable updates)

 

its just easier and more user friendly (or so it seems to me)

 

best option and the one that gets my vote is combing the 2 mods.

 

 

sigh both have great features (NSAP is more stable but slower to get new animations in game) and if they were combined properly it would be the best of both worlds.

 

[Guest]

OK, a couple of technical notes for who is interested.

 

 

 

Possible to add a simple script to add a new animation at load time (In NSAP V4)?

> Meh. The script can be simple for basic SexLab animations. For complex one the script will NOT be easy.

 

Possible to write new animation packages without caring about FNIS files?

> No. A FNIS will will be always mandatory to create.

 

Reduced effort for the main maintainer>

> Not really, maybe just a little bit less.

 

Is this a big step that will make people unhappy?

> Yep. It is.

 

 

[rydin]

There is a key theme here. Quanitity over Quality. Theres a lack of respect to the creators and thier personal lives. Go through SLAL and you will see creators burned out, some saying they haven't played the game since they started modding. I think a lot of users need to take a step back and rethink their position. The silent majority are the patient ones; mainly cause we dont hear them complain about how updates are slow. And again some of you need to realize there was a time before NSAP and SLAL where it was jusy SexLab; think about the length of time betwewn those updates.

 

The bar is set to high. The end user is spoiled and have high expectations. This is probably why no-one wants to manage the packs. Reign it in a bit and show support for the people giving updates and the selfless work they do. NSAP became slower because I got burned out and feed up with the constant badgering. Some modders turn a blind eye and ignore it, but it is always a big kick in the gut when people comment on how slow I became as they were too busy caring about the next sex animation in game than the living breathing working human making

it.