Bad Dog’s WIP Log

[nutluck]

OMG the new Defeat is out, might slow down progress on this mod a whole bunch 

 

Well it is the best mod to test your SIC update.

[Sunnstor]

Is it possible to remove the skeletons lust? Draugrs at least have some meat on their bones, but those horny skeletons .

 

I disabled all skeletons in the creature framework MCM, but they still take action when defeat triggers. Is there a way to just disable the skeletons?

[Bad Dog]

Argh. Essentially all the new falmer variants put their clothes on through outfit lists, which means they all have the same problem as those stupid draugr. I can use the CFArmorNormal keyword, in which case CF strips them, or leave it off, in which case CF won't re-equip them. I'm cruising the CF code now to see if I can figure out any options, but I think the approach is just too simplistic. It accounts for normal and aroused armor and that's it. I'm thinking there must be some way to put whatever armor the creature is wearing in its inventory with a keyword that indicates it was stripped for sex; then afterwards, run through the inventory and re-equip all of those, removing the keyword as you go. But that's a bunch of hacking around in code that's not mine and I'd prefer to avoid it.

@Sunnstor, no, you can remove the boners but can't stop them from having sex. What, you think the rapee gets to choose their rapist?

[Bad Dog]

Looks like I am essentially humped. All the falmer, skeletons, and draugr use outfits. I poked around in CF and the code is written to do exactly what I've been seeing--anything with the CFArmorNormal (or CFArmorAroused) keyword is stripped, then the normal armor is equipped. The normal armor is just the skin, so anything from the outfit (or equipped any other way) is lost. If the armor hasn't got the keyword, it's lost when the aroused armor is equipped and then all you have after sex is the normal skin. None of these are going to work with CF as currently written.

 

I considered defining new skins to duplicate what the outfits do... but the outfits use leveled lists. No way to duplicate that with a static skin.

 

I looked at patching the CF code to move the armor to inventory, attaching a keyword to track what has to be re-equipped after sex. But you can't add a keyword to an object in code.

 

So I don't know how I'm going to handle this. For now, play with spriggans and Shadow of Mordor until inspiration hits.

 

[Justoutthere]

Looks like I am essentially humped. All the falmer, skeletons, and draugr use outfits. I poked around in CF and the code is written to do exactly what I've been seeing--anything with the CFArmorNormal (or CFArmorAroused) keyword is stripped, then the normal armor is equipped. The normal armor is just the skin, so anything from the outfit (or equipped any other way) is lost. If the armor hasn't got the keyword, it's lost when the aroused armor is equipped and then all you have after sex is the normal skin. None of these are going to work with CF as currently written.

 

I considered defining new skins to duplicate what the outfits do... but the outfits use leveled lists. No way to duplicate that with a static skin.

 

I looked at patching the CF code to move the armor to inventory, attaching a keyword to track what has to be re-equipped after sex. But you can't add a keyword to an object in code.

 

So I don't know how I'm going to handle this. For now, play with spriggans and Shadow of Mordor until inspiration hits.

 

Just a thought from a mod user who doesn't have a clue about mod creation. 

 

Is it possible that instead of trying to replace the armour you replace the creature with the appropriate model then return the creature after?

[Bad Dog]

That's basically what the CF does. It replaces the normal skin, which is everything, armor and body, with a different one, then switches them back again. The trouble is it doesn't actually remember the old skin or armor--when it switches back it puts on whatever you've defined as the normal skin.

 

Mostly this works because skins can include armor. The hierarchy is: An armor addon points to a nif file which is the actual mesh, plus the textures to put on the mesh. An armor addon can cover multiple parts of the body. An armor/skin points to one or more armor addons, so the skin can have one addon which is the body and another which is the armor, or it can have one addon which is body and armor both. CF works in both those situations. But an actor can equip multiple armors as long as they don't cover the same part of the body. This is what CF doesn't handle--it either strips those armors and doesn't put them back, or doesn't strip them so the creatures don't get nude. 

 

I could define my own skins which include armor and body and replace the SIC skin+armor with that. But then I lose whatever special qualities the SIC armor had, and it's a goal not to muck up what SIC is doing out of the box. Also, there are literally hundreds of NPCs with different combinations of body, armor, and level. Replacing them all is a lot of work to get an undesirable result. 

 

So, wailey wailey. 

[nutluck]

If some of the creatures can't be done that sucks, but the fact you was able to add as many as you did I see as a huge win. I mean until you stepped up none of them work. So great job no matter how this turns out.

[Nicobay]

animal of skyrim dont have armor

teasing appart ...   that suck ... i mean its already hard enought to do animation , if after that you got conflic because a : armor .. :/

 

[Bad Dog]

Yeah, well, unfortunately for my purposes falmer, draugr, and skeletons count as creatures and do have armor.

 

Anyway, I'm not giving up. I'll do all the other stuff, probably, and do another interim release. Then I'll sit down with CF and think about which is the best of several bad options.

[Nicobay]

thk for trying hard for us , we all apreciate for sur !

[Justoutthere]

That's basically what the CF does. It replaces the normal skin, which is everything, armor and body, with a different one, then switches them back again. The trouble is it doesn't actually remember the old skin or armor--when it switches back it puts on whatever you've defined as the normal skin.

 

Mostly this works because skins can include armor. The hierarchy is: An armor addon points to a nif file which is the actual mesh, plus the textures to put on the mesh. An armor addon can cover multiple parts of the body. An armor/skin points to one or more armor addons, so the skin can have one addon which is the body and another which is the armor, or it can have one addon which is body and armor both. CF works in both those situations. But an actor can equip multiple armors as long as they don't cover the same part of the body. This is what CF doesn't handle--it either strips those armors and doesn't put them back, or doesn't strip them so the creatures don't get nude. 

 

I could define my own skins which include armor and body and replace the SIC skin+armor with that. But then I lose whatever special qualities the SIC armor had, and it's a goal not to muck up what SIC is doing out of the box. Also, there are literally hundreds of NPCs with different combinations of body, armor, and level. Replacing them all is a lot of work to get an undesirable result. 

 

So, wailey wailey. 

 

 

Sorry but I didn't quite understand that before, as I said was just an idea from an non-creator. I also did not make myself clear in my suggestion, I meant actually relocate the creature as a creature to a null room then bring it back after, as in teleport out the actual creature on-mass so to speak and dump it in a room to play with itself whilst its avatar is used in the animation. Then teleport it back still as a full entity in the game. I hope I am making myself clearer and please ignore this if it what you already explained and I miss-understood again. 

[Bad Dog]

Huh. Yes, that might be doable. But at that point I'm deep into modifying CF code. I'd rather teleport just the armor and re-equip it, except that there might be more than one creature active at a time. (Think about the draugr in some of those dungeons.) Then they might scramble their equipment getting it back on, which could be kind of funny.

[Bad Dog]

I'm working on the male spriggans, thinking that even if they won't take the active role they can still join in the fun. I made them some equipment, which is giving trouble or there would be pics. But along the way I found that they would not animate. This is a surprise because they are the vanilla Spriggan race and SL doesn't usually care about the sex of creatures. So I went looking and discovered, surprise surprise, that MNC actually adds animations to SL (which I suppose I knew). But that means I can add animations to SL for the few creatures that are based on regular skeletons but whose races aren't known to SL. Whoa, fancy.

 

So I still don't know why male spriggans don't animate, but I've got new fun things to try.

 

Also, I discovered that the way they animate is that the two actors actually animate separately, which is why sometimes you have one party humping away and the other just standing there. And sometimes one party is playing one animation and the other is playing a completely different animation. The lurkers, for example, have their own animations for sex but the human just reuses the giant animations. 

 

Which suggests to me, if the skeletons have the same bones (and I don't know why they wouldn't), male spriggans might be made to take the active part by reusing the draugr animations, which would be a whole lot more fun for them. I might have to invent a male spriggan race, but that would be okay.

 

This would be a better way to get into scripting, since I'm using SL the way it's meant to be used, rather than hacking up CF. So... we will see.

[Bad Dog]

Back to doing stuff that works. I'm getting the spriggans out of the way and they are being only moderately uncooperative. 

 

The interesting twist with them is that they now exist in both male and female using the same armor. This actually seems to work pretty well--I have a male spriggan using the same skin as female spriggans. (I think. I'd better go back and test that nothing is broken with the vanilla spriggans.) I made him some nice equipment:

 

 

 

 

 

And today he was willing to play. I don't know what the problem earlier was. Of course, being a spriggan, he pretty much had to take it.

 

 

 

 

I don't know what the problem was the other day.

 

I also put a root on the female giant spriggans:

 

 

 

 

Kind of hard to even see, it fits in so well. If I'd known she was going to show up with that big stick I might have used a piece of it as a strapon. But the one she has is so badass I don't think I can take it away now:

 

 

 

 

Tho now that I look at it, maybe I need to open up a piss slot in the tip. You know she's trouble. But she doesn't play yet because SL doesn't know about giant spriggans.

 

A few more variants of spriggans to do and then on to the next.

[Nicobay]

haha good work man xD tame those wood monster !

look pretty good so far

[Guest]

do male spriggans use the same skeleton as the vanilla spriggans?

[defcal]

Hello. I recently added this to my install along with MNC and I am now having an issue with meshes not being swapped as well as Creature Frameworks MCM menu lacking everything that is not covered by your mod. That is to say, all your changes show up, but nothing that MNC covers shows up anymore. Reregistering does nothing to fix this. I first noticed the mesh issue with a horse refusing to get erect. After some trial and error I uninstalled BDIC temporarily and cleaned my save but the problem persisted. Upon starting a new game minus BDIC, the menu is back to normal and horses show up erect after hitting their arousal threshold. When activating BDIC again and starting another new game, the problem returns with the menu lacking vanilla/MNC options and horses unable to get erect at any threshold.

 

I've seen some brief discussion in the MNC thread regarding this issue but nothing that provided a conclusive find.

 

Modlist included.

 

 

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp
Dawnguard.esm
Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp
HearthFires.esm
Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp
Dragonborn.esm
Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp
Skyrim Project Optimization - No Homes - Full Version.esm
Falskaar.esm
Wyrmstooth.esp
JSwords.esm
SexLab.esm
Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm
ZaZAnimationPack.esm
moonpath.esm
hdtHighHeel.esm
DibellanDefender.esm
CreatureFramework.esm
ApachiiHair.esm
SexLabAroused.esm
Devious Devices - Assets.esm
SGHairPackBase.esm
DynamicLoot.esm
Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm
Devious Devices - Integration.esm
Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
daymoyl.esm
TravellersOfSkyrim.esm
ScocLB.esm
TouringCarriages.esp
AMatterOfTime.esp
Babette.esp
DibellanDefender.esp
ExpandedJewelryCrafting.esp
HarvestingAnimation.esp
Bathing in Skyrim - Main.esp
Chesko_WearableLantern.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
SGHairPackAIO.esp
More_Saddles.esp
Bathing in Skyrim - Water (Falskaar).esp
Merge Patch I.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-Hearthfire.esp
Moss Rocks.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-DBForevertoMisc.esp
Remodeled Armor - Dragonborn.esp
SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp
SlaveTats.esp
iHUD.esp
Dual Wield Parrying_SKSE.esp
Remodeled Armor.esp
CalienteVanillaArmorTweaks.esp
WondersofWeather.esp
Apropos.esp
Convenient Horses.esp
UIExtensions.esp
Remodeled Armor - Underwear.esp
DynamicLoot_DB.esp
DynamicLoot_DG.esp
JSwords_Load_Screens.esp
SOS - Leito Addon.esp
Locational Damage.esp
ReadingTakesTime.esp
vImmersiveBeds - HFDG.esp
Fangstest.esp
Better Dynamic Snow.esp
Footprints.esp
Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp
RaceMenu.esp
SexLabDefeat.esp
Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp
SexLab Sound FX Replacer.esp
LookCloser.esp
LovelyHairstylesCE.esp
SimpleTaxes.esp
MoreNastyCritters.esp
NonSexLabAnimationPack.esp
SabreFurBag.esp
SexLabMatchMaker.esp
RaceMenuPluginXPMSE.esp
BodySlotsMCM.esp
RealisticRoomRental.esp
ELE_Legendary_Fs_Wt_Lite.esp
Remodeled Armor - Dawnguard.esp
Bathing in Skyrim - Realistic Room Rental.esp
SOS - B3lisario UNP Addon.esp
SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp
SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp
SOS Equipable Schlong.esp
SOSRaceMenu.esp
SexLab Cumshot.esp
SexLab Warmbodies.esp
SexLabNudeCreatures.esp
SexLabNudeCreaturesDG.esp
SexLabNudeCreaturesDB.esp
SexLabSquirt.esp
SexlabScocLB.esp
SkyUI.esp
AchieveThat.esp
Dual Sheath Redux.esp
TheChoiceIsYours_Dragonborn.esp
TradeBarter.esp
TravellersOfSkyrim - Vanilla.esp
TreaclemanMoonpathPatch.esp
UFO - Dragonborn AddOn.esp
VioLens.esp
Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
SkyRe_Main.esp
Falskaar SkyRe Faction Patch.esp
SkyRe_Survivalism.esp
WetandCold.esp
AOS.esp
3DNPC.esp
DawnofSkyrim-AllMajorCities.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp
Better Vampires.esp
Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp
Helgen Reborn.esp
Coins.esp
Birdsofskyrim.esp
OBIS.esp
Bring Out Your Dead.esp
SkyRe_SIC Crossbowfix.esp
AFT_iNPCFix.esp
Wintermyst - Enchantments of Skyrim.esp
dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp
SkyrimURWL.esp
Pureweather.esp
SSv2.esp
Vividian - AllinOne Presets.esp
Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - for Pure Weather.esp
Thunderchild - Epic Shout Package.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp
BirdsHFclean.esp
BDIC.esp
skyBirds - Airborne Perching Birds.esp
MoonAndStar_MAS.esp
HarvestOverhaul.esp
HarvestOverhaul_SkyRe_Patch.esp
RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp
Radiant and Unique Potions Poisons and BOOZE.esp
Purewaters.esp
RND_BabettesFeast-Patch.esp
SkyRe_EncounterZones.esp
Captured Dreams.esp
BetterQuestObjectives.esp
AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
MoonAndStar_ImmersionPatch.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-Dawnguard.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-PersidRRentalPatch.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-SkyRePatch.esp
Morskom.esp
Hebrock_Der Schatten von Meresis - EV.esp
Holidays.esp
HarvestOverhaul_skyBirds_v0.931_Patch.esp
Thunderchild - SkyRe Compatibility Patch.esp
Vividian - Pure Weather Patch.esp
AOS2_EBT Patch.esp
Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp
EnhancedBlood-ImprovedCombatSounds.esp
Merge Patch III.esp
Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
HentaiCreatures.esp
PIVariety.esp
SkyrimsUniqueTreasures.esp
TheChoiceIsYours.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-TheChoiceIsYoursPatch.esp
Dr_Bandolier.esp
TravellersOfSkyrim - Dragonborn and Bags and Pouches Addon.esp
TravellersOfSkyrim - Bags and Pouches Addon.esp
Cloaks.esp
1nivWICCloaks.esp
Run For Your Lives.esp
1nivWICSkyCloaksPatch.esp
Pureweather_AOS2 Patch.esp
AOS2_WetandCold Patch.esp
WetandCold - Ashes.esp
Wintermyst - SkyRe Compatibility Patch.esp
WintermystPatcher.esp
Weapons & Armor_TrueWeaponsLvlLists.esp
Immersive Weapons.esp
UFO - Ultimate Follower Overhaul.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-AFTPatch.esp
Merge Patch II.esp
DeadlyDragons.esp
Crossbows_Basic_Collection_EN_LL.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-UFOPatch.esp
TravellersOfSkyrim - UFO Compatibility Patch.esp
SkyRe_EnemyScaling.esp
WeaponsArmorFixes_ImmersiveWeapons_Patch.esp
Unique Uniques.esp
AOS2_SkyRe Patch.esp
AOS2_SkyRe-AFTER Patch.esp
AOS2_GDO Patch.esp
dD-DG-DB-Immersive Creatures EBT Patch.esp
mslDeviousCaptures.esp
realrainextended.esp
TrueStorms.esp
TrueStorms-PureWeather.esp
vImmersiveBeds.esp
MorskomPatchIB.esp
xazPrisonOverhaul.esp
Feykro.esp
Merge Patch IV.esp
ImprovedFishBASIC.esp
83Willows_101BUGS_V4_HighRes.esp
ImprovedFishBASIC-RND.esp
Bathing in Skyrim - Water for Pure Waters (Legendary).esp
RND_PureWaters-Patch.esp
RND_Dragonborn-Patch.esp
RND_Dawnguard-Patch.esp
RND_USKP-Patch.esp
SMIM-Merged-All.esp
HarvestOverhaulCreatures.esp
CookingExpanded.esp
BabettesFeastBalanced.esp
Cooking Expanded - RND Support.esp
Schlongs of Skyrim.esp
HarvestOverhaulCreatures_RND_Animal_Loot_All_DLC.esp
moonpath_questdata.esp
buildablehouse.esp
RRR_3DNPC-Patch.esp
JSwordsDistributionBalancePlugin.esp
Immersive Patrols II.esp
CZHCAD.esp
CZHCAD_HF.esp
CZHCAD_DG.esp
SFO - Dragonborn.esp
Tame Beast.esp
Devious Deviants.esp
SkyRe_StandingStones.esp
BesEss.esp
Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp
Unique Grasses.esp
RayeksEnd.esp
Chesko_Frostfall.esp
LIAT - Sounds.esp
RND_HearthFires-Patch.esp
SkyRe_Races.esp
IngredientsOfTamriel.esp
WheelsOfLull.esp
Catsofskyrim.esp
SkyRe_EnemyAI.esp
WorldEaterBeater.esp
Space Wiking's Dwemer Exoskeleton.esp
BlackreachRailroadNew.esp
Thunderchild - Wyrmstooth Compatibility Patch.esp
MzarkWonders.esp
SOS - Shop.esp
Merge Patch V.esp
Deviously Cursed Loot.esp
KnapsackEnhanced.esp
AddItemMenu.esp
FNISspells.esp
LIAT - NPCs.esp
Kaassi follower new.esp
DCL-FF patch.esp
Dogsofskyrim.esp
Hunterborn.esp
The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-PaarDilemmaPatch.esp
Hunterborn_RND-Patch.esp
Hunterborn_Frostfall-Patch.esp
Hunterborn_WearableLantern-Patch.esp
FishingInSkyrim.esp
AetheriumSwordsnArmor.esp
EstrusChaurus.esp
HoldBorderBanners.esp
Argonian Access.esp
Aethernautics.esp
Brevi_MoonlightTales.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-MoonlightPatch.esp
DwemerAutoBlade.esp
Dwemer Goggles & Scouter.esp
SkyRe_Combat.esp
vMYC_MeetYourCharacters.esp
Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp
Apocalypse - SkyRe Compatibility Patch.esp
Apocalypse - More Apocalypse.esp
Apocalypse - More Apocalypse - SkyRe Compatibility Patch.esp
TheChoiceIsYours_Dawnguard.esp
My Home Is Your Home.esp
GypsyEyesCaravan.V.2.esp
RGMsAlchemistsCompendium.esp
JaxonzEnhGrab.esp
Real Clouds.esp
dovahkiinrelax.esp
TheEyesOfBeauty.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-AlternateStartPatch.esp
SexLabSolutions_LAL_Patch.esp
Warburg's 3D Paper World Map - Texture 1.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
Pre ReProccer WAFR IA7 IW UU Patch.esp
Automatic Variants.esp
Dual Sheath Redux Patch.esp
ReProccer.esp
Post ReProccer Fixes IA7 IW UU Patch.esp

 

[Bad Dog]

Good to see a nice healthy modlist.

 

You've got a bunch of stuff loading after MNC/SLNC. You could try moving them down in the load order.

 

The CF menu is tempermental. I'm not sure why, but the "reload mods" operation often gives odd results. Nonetheless, it's worth trying. Jaxonz's MCM kicker gives better results.

 

Since you can start new games without major pain, please do that with debugging turned on and send me the ENTIRE log or post it here in an attachment. CF's logging is pretty good, but I want to see what it logs for the initial registration as well as what it does when a creature shows up later. Thanks.

 

 

Ya, male spriggans are the vanilla spriggan skeleton.

[defcal]

Yes, it's taken a bit of doing to get everything stable and working how I want it this go around, but it's been overall worth it so far. Still ironing out the kinks, obviously.

 

On that note, I actually did some more tinkering around after I posted. I tried playing with load orders and moving everything all over the place but never to any avail. I tried merging Nude Creatures, NCDB, NCDG, MNC and BDIC all together using the script for tesedit but that just yielded a CF menu with nothing but a handful of dogs. No amount of resets would change it. So tried just BDIC and MNC together and MNC simply overwrites your mod entirely, won't even recognize it. So then I tried just reinstalling MNC and BDIC back over it and let Loot handle the load order again and loaded up my new test save and I made some progress. Your mods changes AND MNC show up together in the creature framework menu. I can confirm that at least a few nude creatures vanilla wolves and a few BDIC immersive creature grey wolves had their dangly bits in proper working order (Mostly anyways, IC's pups meshes are a tad off but I guess that's to be expected). But horses are still being shy.

 

Ones that were erect from when I merged MNC and BDIC stayed so and wouldn't change regardless of arousal threshold so they were stuck unable to change meshes but didnt seem to care that they were already using the erect mesh. Clearing all creatures and leaving/coming back (most of this testing is just outside Whiterun, fyi) reset their meshes to sheathed and they won't switch back regardless of arousal level/threshold. I don't believe I tried resetting mods within CF's menu after that (had to work on something else) but I can try and see what that yields.

 

I can also get that debug log for you but i need to know exactly what you want. You're not looking for papyrus logs I take it? Is there a debug option built into CF or are you referring to something else?

 

Man that's a lot of acronyms in one post. Anyways, appreciate your help. I was trying to figure out if I could manually force the mesh change in game, via spell or console but had no luck with that. If it's possible though, that'd be a lovely workaround while trying to figure this out.

 

EDIT:

 

Went in and reset mods through CF menu. It seems to have eliminated the majority of MNC's stuff, leaving only a few options from it as well as everything from BDIC. But testing several creatures from BDIC, most of them are working right. Horses are still a no go and saber cats don't get erect either. Bears don't have anything (these are all using hentai creatures to test, though I'm not otherwise familiar with the mod so not sure if that matters or not).

 

EDIT AGAIN:

 

So went back before I reset mods and tried summoning all the different critters again. Without resetting mods, all of the above work. As in, all, horses too. The only caveat seems to be that nobody is popping an erection on their own, only when I use the 'check arousal' key to poll them. I can live with that though. Not sure what changed. Going to go back to my main save and see if it's working the same.

[Bad Dog]

Ya, papyrus logs. That's where everybody writes their status.

 

The thing about having to check arousal on actors is significant. It suggests a heavy script load and maybe that's getting in the way of the CF scripts. Are you using Aroused or Aroused Redux? I'm using redux and I find there's some lag, but only up to 10 seconds or so, and the check arousal key works immediately.  

 

Convenient Horses has a script lag timer. You might check that.

[defcal]

Gotcha. I've tried to browse through the papyrus logs for some insight here but I'm definitely a novice at doing so. I can use them in so far as if I see the same script popping up at CTD after CTD, I realize it

 

Well I'll do that soon then. In the meantime I've been trying to make as clean a save as possible on my main save. Using the same setup that worked on my test save didn't work on my main one...since load orders are identical, I'm guessing it's something script related regarding the sloppy way in which I installed MNC and BDIC (installed mnc, then bdic then uninstalled bdic and forgot before reinstalling it and updating mnc, ugh, I should know better). Anyways, when I done scrubbing this save and ready to do a fresh full install of the latest MNC and BDIC, would you like the papyrus log for that too?

 

If none of that gets me anywhere I'll check out the timer in CH. Though I imagine it doesn't function terribly differently than the one in Frostfall that warns you when update times take over 20 seconds.

 

EDIT:

 

So I tried to load up MNC and BDIC on my cleaned save. The first three attempts yielded CTD's on load. The fourth one I used COC elsweyr from the main menu and loaded up the save after that loaded clean. Didn't stop to check menu settings on the new save, but when I got into my cleaned save, I found that none of MNC's options are in the CF menu, only BDIC and horses remain flaccid only.

 

I spent an hour going back and forth, manually clearing out all related files from my MO folder, using the clean tool several times, etc. There was, as far as I could tell, zero trace of either mod left. Just before these four logs I loaded MNC on it's own and it was working just fine. Loading them together doesn't though. That's still more progress than I had earlier when MNC was bugging out after removing BDIC, so that's nice, but I KNOW I had both working right on a new save so I don't know why I can't replicate that. I'm going to try loading MNC up on its own again back on the clean save, save that and then load it again with BDIC added and see if it makes a difference loading them separately.

Main Save - Cleaned - First.log

Main Save - Cleaned - Second.log

Main Save - Cleaned - Third.log

Main Save - Cleaned - Fourth; Started with COC Elsweyr from main menu.log

[Bad Dog]

Reading the json creature definitions is just buggered, that's all there is to it. 

 

I was having a problem with giant spriggans and I have a file with only two entries. If I put the Ancient Spriggans first, I got a message from SLNC saying it had read the definition from the file. Normally this is immediately followed by messages from CF saying that it has normal and aroused armors for that creature. In this case I got nothing from the Ancient Spriggans, but normal output from the Spriggan race entry that followed. (And the limp wang he's supposed to have doesn't appear.)

 

If I just reverse the order of the entries, CF says the Ancient Spriggan is registered but is silent about the Spriggan--and the wang appears on the Ancient Spriggan.

 

So I look more carefully and the first entry in all my files are being skipped.

 

And I look to see if the first entry of the SLNC files is being skipped and they aren't being loaded at all--even though they are supposed to be courtesy of Jaxonz MCM Kicker, and my files really are reloaded. Yet they are showing up in the menu--apparently old definitions aren't being unloaded under those circumstances. 

 

So I disable BDIC in my mod order and dump the creature definitions and there are still BDIC entries in there. But SLNC files are now being correctly loaded and the first entries are not being skipped.

 

So here's what I think is going on, though I don't know why: If BDIC is in the load order, only the BDIC files are loaded. If you already had SLNC in your save game, those definitions stay and you have the right behavior. If you didn't have SLNC already, you only get the BDIC creatures. I think you, defcal, unloaded BDIC and got the SLNC defs into your game, then reenabled BDIC and got the right behavior. 

 

This is, btw, even more confusing because I'm right now overriding a SLNC file (10_slnc) in my version of BDIC to clean up some stuff, and it's not being loaded. So it's not because the two are in different mods.

 

And some of my files claim to be for different mods (for the werewolf variants) and one is correctly loaded but the other isn't. And it's not an option in the MCM menu, and it causes an error and CTD when I look. 

 

Summary: Reading the definition files are buggered and I don't know why. And it's too late to go bug hunting tonight.

[Bad Dog]

But maybe not too late for some sexy pics. An ancient spriggan: 

 

 

 

 

... and with woody. I think this is what they call a dad body.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit @defcal: 

 

Oh, and I hope you have "Debug to log" turned on in CF. If you don't, uh, turn it on.

 

See above about what I think is going on, Try turning on MNC and running until it settles, then adding BDIC. 

 

I'll look at your logs tomorrow, but I think I have a handle on what the problem is, anyway.

[defcal]

Badda bing

 

I loaded up my cleaned save again, with just MNC enabled. Did like you said and just let skyrim sit for a few minutes until I'd gotten 'MCM has updated 3 menus' and confirmed that CF, HC and SLNC all had menus. I saved and then summoned a horse through hentai creatures, confirmed it was getting erect and then quit. I enabled BDIC and loaded up the most recent save. Again, just let it go for a few minutes. Afterwards I checked CF's menu and sure enough, everything is showing up. I summoned a bunch of beasties through hentais to confirm they're all working and they are. I'll get out in the world soon enough and confirm your critters from BDIC are doing the same though I don't suspect that will be an issue. Never say never though I guess.

 

 

 

I think you, defcal, unloaded BDIC and got the SLNC defs into your game, then reenabled BDIC and got the right behavior.

 

Well like I said earlier, though I'm not proud of it I DID flub the install. I had MNC installed and then caught wind of your mod for IC (which by the way is just great, I hated feeling like I was missing something by not having IC creatures have any fun...didn't want to go without IC either though!) and installed BDIC. Then I thought I was getting CTD's because of it so I disabled it and forgot about it for a day or two then reactivated it with an MNC update. Anyways, I undid all that when cleaning my save and seem to be good now. We'll see how long that lasts.

 

Sorry to take your time up for something that ended up being on my side (and preventable at that) but hopefully anyone else who might be in the same boat as me can make use of this info.

 

On a content related note, the ancient spriggan is looking good. I'd like to throw in a suggestion regarding them and other plant based critters though: genitals that are more 'vine' like. Green I guess (or other 'fleshier' color as opposed to more bark like) and maybe even a slightly tapered shape. I don't know if you have plans for doing alternative meshes/textures for anything when there's still a mountain of new stuff to make but just wanted to toss it out there.

 

EDIT:

 

Oh, when I say things are getting erect, I mean through probing them with Aroused's (redux) hotkey. If I just let them stand there they don't change their meshes...though that might be because they're summoned in. We'll see how critters behave out in the world. I ran convenient horses script timer while indoors and was averaging 50ms which is apparently where I should be. I'll keep the feature in mind if I run into issues down the road.

[Bad Dog]

Good, glad things are working. And thanks for posting about it... there's definitely wrong behavior here and some of it was affecting me without my knowing, so it's all good. 

 

For the spriggans, check the male spriggan I posted about upthread. That's the direction I was going with him though his woodie is still woody and maybe I didn't go as far as I might have. The male giant spriggans are just using the MNC equipment... I'll get in there and fiddle them one day. The female giant spriggan came out the way she came out and I'm going to have a hard time changing it.