Can we talk about 'Gamergate' ?

[Dr. Thang]

I'm strongly in favor of anything that will cause trouble at the nexus.

[Guest]

 

 

 

How'd they get Zoe Quinns dads phone number?

 

 

 

let me guess 

you still believe in santa claus

   

 

 

No its a honest question as lets say an average joe (totally hypothetically as i'm not encouraging any such behavior) decides he wants to death threat/comment on there sexual habits etc to the parents of the dude that wrote that god awful review of dragon age 2 (94% best combat rpg ever etc) Rich McCormick so other than googling/trying every public number you could find assosiated with the surname and getting lucky i don't get how you'd go about it.

 

The way its spoken of makes it sound like its a common occurence or something instead of the work of nut jobs that should be treated as nut jobs

 

Felicia Day is probably asking herself the same thing. Any 4chan skiddie can dox a public figure these days, it's trendy. 

[Guest]

 

somebody get point

I'll do it.

 

Anita Sarkeesian just tweeted this to my AKC standard poodle;

 

@Kendo2's dog

You muther-fucker.  UR gonna pay.  I had enough of you and your bullshit.  I'm gonna paint you pink and then I'm gonna paint Kendo2.

 

My dog has already contacted PETA and the ASPCA.  He's terrified and sheltering with close and trusted friends.  SanFran PD told him that if he wanted the threats of pink pooches to stop he should just keep quiet but he's not going to.  His voice (barking) WILL be heard!

 

DISCLAIMER:  Anita Sarkeesian really did threaten my dog.  I just posted proof...or as much proof as Zoe and Anita can provide for their alleged threats.

 

Maybe you should assist the FBI in their ongoing investigations Kendo, seeing as you've already solved the case, you could save the taxpayer some money 

[nonusnomeni]

 

 

Felicia Day is probably asking herself the same thing. Any 4chan skiddie can dox a public figure these days, it's trendy. 

 

hell why i can't get her phone number       

 

but seriously revealing publicly somebodys personally informations should be consider as "criminal act against persons well being" (or however this formula will sound in USA juridical system)

and it should be international law

based on:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:31995L0046&from=en

summary (i know nobody will read all of that if doesn't must) of proposed legal action (to the country-members)

six months to 15 years imprisonment for individuals 

a legal entity shall be fined in the amount of one-year revenue and get ban on business in 3-5 years

and right now coordination regarding this law between FBI and Interpol exist...

 

 

 

 

[pinky6225]

 

Felicia Day is probably asking herself the same thing. Any 4chan skiddie can dox a public figure these days, it's trendy. 

 

hell why i can't get her phone number       

 

but seriously revealing publicly somebodys personally informations should be consider as "criminal act against persons well being" (or however this formula will sound in USA juridical system)

and it should be international law

based on:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:31995L0046&from=en

summary (i know nobody will read all of that if doesn't must) of proposed legal action (to the country-members)

six months to 15 years imprisonment for individuals 

a legal entity shall be fined in the amount of one-year revenue and get ban on business in 3-5 years

and right now coordination regarding this law between FBI and Interpol exist...

 

 

 

 

 

If it was obtained from an offical source like a government database or a business database then it would be illegal in the UK as it would fall under the data protection act.

 

Their have been quite a few cases where say someone who works as a civil support for the police decides to do a criminal record check on someone and gets caught and then taken to court etc which makes me think most people would consider it to not be worth the potential risk.

 

I suppose if someone they already knew was careless or did it on purpose that makes sense and while i don't use facebook i'm pretty sure if i did i wouldn't add my parent and if for some unknown reason i did i wouldn't let my parent put there telephone number on their page as that just sounds silly.

 

Anyways if someone has been harassing him then that should be a matter for the police to investigate

[Angrybird]

You guys are really out of touch with how much people expose themselves online.

[legendarytoyou]

I'll be honest I was personally kind of hoping this wouldn't show up here.  You guys are cool, laid back and the viciousness of both sides tends to make even the nicest forum a toxic cesspool on occasion.  However this is something we really shouldn't ignore and being pro #NotYourShield I feel its an obligation to set the record straight;

 

You guys know me (for the small time I've been here I feel very welcome).  You know I have a deep love for women and I would love more than anything for them to get more involved in the gaming industry as a career.  For the most part most games these days seem very stale, un-imaginative and on occasion downright stripped bare in order to milk customers for day one DLC and micro transactions.  I've personally found women tend to have a more artistic impression of games (a good portion of modders here for example are women save the other artists) and tend to have a broader ideal on the concept of digital art.

 

That being said the very definition this has ANYTHING to do with sexism in the industry is a misnomer.  There is sexism don't get me wrong but this #GamerGate problem has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH SEXISM.  I am being honest with you guys and really it's the honest truth; anti-GG only brought sexism into the argument because they realize they're on the defensive with nothing to back them up.

 

If you're wondering just what this pertains to we have to look back two years ago at the 2012 GMA's.  It's common knowledge now that a good portion of games journalists (not just women I mean a lot of them) were given lavish incentives to endorse certain games that were not up to snuff.  These, "bribes," included free games, free publishing rights, better reviews and critiques for their games and on occasion FREE Playstation 3s.  If you want more information on this I need only ask you Google Dorito Gate and you'll see what I mean.

 

Now you're probably wondering what does this have to do with Zoe Quinn and her disgruntled boyfriend.  This is the unfortunate catalyst to this consumer revolt.  Miss Quinn's personal life is nobody's business but her own however the Twitter feed her ex made sparked what many consider clear facts that games journalism is corrupt.  Also what really got the fire going was her blatant attempt to abuse Youtube's DMCA system in order to shutdown NOT SEXISM BUT ACTUAL CRITICISM by MundaneMatt.  We've seen attempts like this before (Day One: Gary's Incident, WarZ and Shining Force) of using the DMCA system to not only cut criticism but also censor free speech.

 

There's the real truth of it my fellow game enthusiasts.  Trust me this has NOTHING to do with sexism.  Oh yes you'll see the occasional troll spewing misogyny, hatred and hollow threats but more than likely they are NOT GamerGate or NotYourShield.  If they are it is simply some idiot who thinks venting will make change when it won't.  The real tragedy of all this is the fact that the toxicity has taken a real turn for the worst.

 

One side accuses the other of a vicious attack http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2k0wov/just_when_you_think_antigg_cant_stoop_any_lower/

The other side of despots in the movement respond http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/24/gamergate-targets-felicia-day-after-she-expresses-fear-of-being-targeted/?tid=hp_mm

 

It's a back and forth argument with one looking illegitimate and the other looking childish.  Anti-GGer's accuse ANYONE who doesn't agree with them of being misogynists, sexists and rapists.  The other tries to maintain a degree of professionalism however with despots and trolls like a wolf among the sheep it gets lost in a maelstrom of name calling and trolling.

 

All I can say is for people to actually look into the debate ON YOUR OWN.  Anti-GG has taken to accusations of bigotry and have regulated themselves to generalizing ANYONE that plays games, male or female of being misogynists.  As you can see the hypocrisy is nauseating and is merely a screen for the truth of the matter;

 

They don't want people or the general public to realize just how nepotistic they are, so they use a screen of sexism to garner public support.  They are literally attempting to use sexism and bigotry as a shield in order to keep their real elephant in the room hidden.  Of course many of us are aware just how corrupt gaming journalism is and its perverse in the entire industry.

 

This was simply the straw that broke the camels back.

[Dr. Thang]

So that's why this happened, because totally not sexism? Or are you gonna say no true scott-I mean gamergater would do that? I've noticed gamergaters only have 3 arguments for why this totally isn't about sexism: no true scottsman, a feminist conspiracy, and it's just a coincidence that all examples of rampant gaming journalism corruption in the past were pretty much ignored until a woman could be blamed. All are pretty weak debate tactics in general. If the simplest explanation is that this IS about sexism, and all arguments to the contrary rely on convoluted conspiracy or coincidences, then...well you know what they say about the simplest explanation right?

There's a reason why the Southern Poverty Law Center, the renown experts on hate groups, have officially declared gamergate a hate group. Blame it on the "trolls" all you like, but if that's the case, the trolls won, gamergate IS the trolls now, a handful of reasonable people within doesn't make up for that. I kinda feel sorry for the reasonable people, it's like joining Al-Queda thinking it's a community service organization, then having to make excuses for why they're totally not terrorists, and all those suicide bombers are not true Al-Quedans, and they are just trolls trying to make them look bad

[MonkeyShoulder]

The whole ethics within gaming journalism has been a long time coming. Gamergate is acting like the corruption is something relatively new and its not. Back in '04 a developer for team 17 (Worms) told a lecture hall full of student programmers (me included) not to trust gaming magazines because there was too much corruption as part of an after lecture Q&A session about the gaming industry.

 

The fight to get world firsts, exclusives, demos, developer interviews etc let the publishers have some power over the magazines so if anyone gave them bad reviews they would get black listed etc.  Coupled with the fact AAA games require around 90% or greater to be a hit meant that publishers could lean on magazines to give positive reviews or minimize the negatives.

 

You can see it today with youtubers getting deals from publishers that can't criticize the game in anyway.

 

Gamergate was just the straw that broke the camels back. Prior to that it was rumours. The Quinn thing opened the floodgates. Funnily enough if the gaming press had kept their cool and let Quinn thing blow over with the truth eventually coming out then everything would have gone back to normal.

 

Instead they blasted gamers, all at the same time and with the same article, which for gamers only proved there was some dodgy shit going on behind the scenes.... and then the google group got exposed and all hell broke loose.

 

Now gawker has published tweets telling people to bully child gamers and their advertisers pulled out, so gawker also insulted them.

 

The whole thing is a clusterfuck and the gaming press are going to go through a survival of the fittest pretty damn soon.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

BTW on the subject of doxxing, in the information rich age we are currently in, where people are not as careful as they think they are about their personal details then yes doxxing will happen and quite easily.

 

Blizzard wanted people to use their real names on the Battle.net forums a few years back and people voiced a lot of concern about privacy. One of the developers said it was needless concern and to prove it, gave his actual name.

 

Within hours his name, home address, phone number, high school, his parents names, his parents address + phone number where all posted on the battle.net forums.

 

If you use your real name, blog in your neighborhood, talk about their daily life and don't hide what state you are in people are going to find your personal information fast. Every celeb (offline and online) should know this,

 

Youtubers really should have a youtube handle AND a public identity which they can sign business documents with that is separate to their actual name.

[Kendo 2]

So that's why this happened, because totally not sexism? Or are you gonna say no true scott-I mean gamergater would do that? I've noticed gamergaters only have 3 arguments for why this totally isn't about sexism: no true scottsman, a feminist conspiracy, and it's just a coincidence that all examples of rampant gaming journalism corruption in the past were pretty much ignored until a woman could be blamed. All are pretty weak debate tactics in general. If the simplest explanation is that this IS about sexism, and all arguments to the contrary rely on convoluted conspiracy or coincidences, then...well you know what they say about the simplest explanation right?

There are existing threads on OTHER FORUMS where you can battle it out with gamegate types, since you obviously want a confrontation/debate.  Thus far, Lover's Lab is uncontaminated by either side of the controversy.  We are discussing it indifferently, making fun of both sides in what has devolved into a genuine shit show of internet dupes and idiots waging nonsensical war on one another.  Speaking for myself, I don't want to see Lover's Lab drawn into it.  I'm sure others here feel the same way.

 

There's a reason why the Southern Poverty Law Center, the renown experts on hate groups, have officially declared gamergate a hate group. Blame it on the "trolls" all you like, but if that's the case, the trolls won, gamergate IS the trolls now, a handful of reasonable people within doesn't make up for that. I kinda feel sorry for the reasonable people, it's like joining Al-Queda thinking it's a community service organization, then having to make excuses for why they're totally not terrorists, and all those suicide bombers are not true Al-Quedans, and they are just trolls trying to make them look bad

What I have underlined is simply not true.  Gamegate has NOT been declared a hate group by the SPLC.  There is a link on their blog that leads back to the Guardian article and a discussion open to anyone on Blogspot.  That IS NOT an official declaration.  Gamegate doesn't meet the SPLC's criteria for a 'hate group'.  According to the SPLC, "All hate groups have beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics."  If we go by that standard, after sifting through the verbiage in Jon Stone's article, The Guardian is a hate group.

 

And your comparison to Al Qaeda is simply in poor taste.  Even with the tolerant interpretation that Lover's Lab might have, what you said can't be played off as a literary device.  You're comparing people to terrorists and your intent wasn't lost.  If you want a battle that badly then go look for one elsewhere.  No one here is interested.

[Dr. Thang]

 

We are discussing it indifferently, making fun of both sides in what has devolved into a genuine shit show of internet dupes and idiots waging nonsensical war on one another.

 

 

Eh, sorry, it just didn't seem indifferent at all to me.

[Guest]

in order to keep their real elephant in the room hidden.  Of course many of us are aware just how corrupt gaming journalism is and its perverse in the entire industry.

 

This was simply the straw that broke the camels back.

But we've all known for absolutely ages that video game journos were corrupt. Over all of those years of us all saying "this is bullshit", it took some douche of a guy airing his ex-girlfriend's dirty laundry to precipitate a revolution? 

 

When was the last time anybody gave a flying shit about a male independent games developer's sex life? How Come Zoe Quinn's was so incendiary? What is it about her that proved to be the camel's back?

 

Not sexist....my arse!

 

[windpl]

 

.  Treatment of women in video games, as far as I'm concerned, is bottom of the barrel, and is a very non issue.  The focus should be more on the conduct towards women by male gamers in online interactions, if anything.  I know women who were banned from servers because they were kicking everybody's ass and then spoke on mic and the server op banned them for being female.  

This is something I've experienced a lot. I think I was a pretty good raid healer, back in the days of 40 mans that went on for frigging hours, you had little time to do much more than watch for line of sight issues and juggle dozens of health bars until your eyeballs dried up.

 

I very quickly learned not speak on Ventrilo if there was anyone in the raid group I wasn't familiar with, if I did the raid leader would inevitably get some guy asking why I always got a place when I didn't seem all that good a healer. Basically, if people knew I was a girl I'd then be expected to work twice as hard to justify my spot, or the inference would be that I was sucking off the raid leader. 

 

 

If you are talking about wow, then there only GS  was point of entry

I think that if Zoe and her friends wasn't bitching how gamers are evil then no one would give a fuck.

[Guest]

 

 

.  Treatment of women in video games, as far as I'm concerned, is bottom of the barrel, and is a very non issue.  The focus should be more on the conduct towards women by male gamers in online interactions, if anything.  I know women who were banned from servers because they were kicking everybody's ass and then spoke on mic and the server op banned them for being female.  

This is something I've experienced a lot. I think I was a pretty good raid healer, back in the days of 40 mans that went on for frigging hours, you had little time to do much more than watch for line of sight issues and juggle dozens of health bars until your eyeballs dried up.

 

I very quickly learned not speak on Ventrilo if there was anyone in the raid group I wasn't familiar with, if I did the raid leader would inevitably get some guy asking why I always got a place when I didn't seem all that good a healer. Basically, if people knew I was a girl I'd then be expected to work twice as hard to justify my spot, or the inference would be that I was sucking off the raid leader. 

 

 

If you are talking about wow, then there only GS  was point of entry

I think that if Zoe and her friends wasn't bitching how gamers are evil then no one would give a fuck.

 

Oh I'm an old(er) lady. This was long before GS was a thing. They'd have just said "well she's bound to have decent gear, she's a girl!". Believe.

[windpl]

 

 

 

.  Treatment of women in video games, as far as I'm concerned, is bottom of the barrel, and is a very non issue.  The focus should be more on the conduct towards women by male gamers in online interactions, if anything.  I know women who were banned from servers because they were kicking everybody's ass and then spoke on mic and the server op banned them for being female.  

This is something I've experienced a lot. I think I was a pretty good raid healer, back in the days of 40 mans that went on for frigging hours, you had little time to do much more than watch for line of sight issues and juggle dozens of health bars until your eyeballs dried up.

 

I very quickly learned not speak on Ventrilo if there was anyone in the raid group I wasn't familiar with, if I did the raid leader would inevitably get some guy asking why I always got a place when I didn't seem all that good a healer. Basically, if people knew I was a girl I'd then be expected to work twice as hard to justify my spot, or the inference would be that I was sucking off the raid leader. 

 

 

If you are talking about wow, then there only GS  was point of entry

I think that if Zoe and her friends wasn't bitching how gamers are evil then no one would give a fuck.

 

Oh I'm an old(er) lady. This was long before GS was a thing. They'd have just said "well she's bound to have decent gear, she's a girl!". Believe.

 

 

Then I actually finding that strange, in "old days" people on "internets" were more friendly lack of social media and few numbers of players encourage people to be more social (at least in europe). Now "internets" is just filthy pile of mud.

 

[Guest corespore]

This would have happened no matter what in the end. Games journalism is an archaic form of communication that serves no real purpose anymore, and they know it. "Professional" journalists are being replaced by the likes of Angry Joe and other real gamers who can communicate directly with other gamers in damn near real time in a way that normal people talk to each other. Game reviewers on places such as youtube can drop a full-review week(s) ahead of a game release because game devs realize that the best advertisement comes from these youtube reviewers and not only that they do it for free! Gaming journalism can't compete with the information age in being able to connect with their core audience any more and now they can see the end of their way of doing things they are pisses and have decided to burn the bridges as terribly as possible to make some sort of childish point before they fade into obscurity.  

All of this only needed the tiniest spark to set off, if it hadn't been Zoe it would have been something else. Gamergate isn't about sexism or integrity in journalism, it's a bunch of pissed off hipsters having a good-ole-fashioned shit storm before the curtains close that has touched off a rather entertaining consumer revolt. And just like any animal thrashing about before it dies eventually this will all settle down and we can go back to picking on each other instead of them.

[Kendo 2]

 

in order to keep their real elephant in the room hidden.  Of course many of us are aware just how corrupt gaming journalism is and its perverse in the entire industry.

 

This was simply the straw that broke the camels back.

But we've all known for absolutely ages that video game journos were corrupt. Over all of those years of us all saying "this is bullshit", it took some douche of a guy airing his ex-girlfriend's dirty laundry to precipitate a revolution? 

 

When was the last time anybody gave a flying shit about a male independent games developer's sex life? How Come Zoe Quinn's was so incendiary? What is it about her that proved to be the camel's back?

 

Not sexist....my arse!

 

Suppose for a moment that a male game dev cheats on his partner under the same implied circumstances as Quinn.  And let's pretend this dev's significant other acts the way Quinn's did.  All we're doing is reversing the genders.

 

I'm fairly certain the situation would play out the same way.  The misogynist faction would blame the women involved; the misandrist faction would blame the man and rally to the women.  There would be a lot of pointing fingers, name calling and other pathetic on-line shenanigans.  Because all of this would play out on the internet it would attract the worst elements.  The scum on the bottom of the barrel would float to the top and contaminate the whole thing.

 

I've read about six pages worth of exchanges and I got bored with it.  How long can someone stand and watch a pack of yammering baboons flinging shit at one another?  I wish I hadn't wasted my time.

 

I do have an observation; the initial reaction to this Zoe Quinn fiasco wasn't sexist.  It was the usual conspiracy chatter and 'I told you so'.  But when the sexist banter started it escalated quickly.  Stupid internet boys said stupid internet boy things, women responded and the flame war ensued.  Minus the impetus of the Guardian article, what we have now was going on by day three or four of this silly little drama.  The bad thing is, now we have internet elements involved that couldn't care less about gaming or the real impact of what this Zoe Quinn thing implies.  What we have is webz warriors battling it out and a lot of general stupidity from both genders.

 

I do agree with you though.  Plenty of sexist comments about Zoe out there.  That overshadows what's really going on.  Another observation; web game outlets like Polygon are mysteriously quiet about the core Quinn issue outside of a few tweets and blog posts.  I'm not talking about the sexism aspect, I'm talking about the supposed corruption.

[Guest]

 

she's bound to have decent gear, she's a girl!". Believe.

 

Then I actually finding that strange, in "old days" people on "internets" were more friendly lack of social media and few numbers of players encourage people to be more social (at least in europe). Now "internets" is just filthy pile of mud.

 

 

That all ended with WoW. There was a time -  many years agoooo -  when people used to  get together mainly for the fun of getting together. Even WoW was like that early on. I remember the 45 minute Baron runs being the first sign of what was to come. Burning Crusade ushered in that whole min/max speed raiding thing, and from then on Blizzard started designing content around kids afflicted with ADHD. 

 

And that's how all MMOs are designed these days, right?

[legendarytoyou]

 

in order to keep their real elephant in the room hidden.  Of course many of us are aware just how corrupt gaming journalism is and its perverse in the entire industry.

 

This was simply the straw that broke the camels back.

But we've all known for absolutely ages that video game journos were corrupt. Over all of those years of us all saying "this is bullshit", it took some douche of a guy airing his ex-girlfriend's dirty laundry to precipitate a revolution? 

 

When was the last time anybody gave a flying shit about a male independent games developer's sex life? How Come Zoe Quinn's was so incendiary? What is it about her that proved to be the camel's back?

 

Not sexist....my arse!

 

You and everyone else, me included, is still trying to figure out just why and how Zoe Quinn's actions precipitated this whole mess.  Personally I don't think its any of our fucking business but sadly BOTH sides are hell bent on using it as a means of justification.  If you read my post you know I said that NOT ALL of the GamerGate side of this was involved in that plot but the thing that really put this on the map was the DMCA abuse by Zoe Quinn.

 

Someone mentioned in an earlier post that had she simply let it go as hatemail/harassment at an earlier time the whole affair MIGHT have blown over.  Instead she agreed with people calling gamers, "dead,"  and abused the DMCA on Youtube to shut MundaneMatt up simply to censor his criticism of her.  Now don't get me wrong though there is a bit of sexism stemming from most of the community whom feel their hobby is under fire but 90% of the time its just some naysayer trying to fan the flames like those hecklers during protests intentionally trying to push the demonstration to violence instead of being a peaceful protest.

 

This has been building up but seriously I agree with Kendo; LoversLab really should stay out of this and personally I'm a bit sorry I even posted my thoughts here.  We represent a forum of free thinking that I find refreshing and unlike the Nexus we don't legitimize ourselves by roosting on the moral high ground (if they want to call it that).  Everyone here is free and open which is what drew me in and as we see this debate can get extremely toxic.  Each side really is just a giant mud flinging contest and i really don't want this site to become another casualty.

 

In that event I say we just change the subject and refrain from this toxic duplicity.

 

AHEM.

 

How bout those Kansas City Royals?  I'm a Cubs fan but its good to see a midwestern team making the playoffs.

[Guest]

 

 

in order to keep their real elephant in the room hidden.  Of course many of us are aware just how corrupt gaming journalism is and its perverse in the entire industry.

 

This was simply the straw that broke the camels back.

But we've all known for absolutely ages that video game journos were corrupt. Over all of those years of us all saying "this is bullshit", it took some douche of a guy airing his ex-girlfriend's dirty laundry to precipitate a revolution? 

 

When was the last time anybody gave a flying shit about a male independent games developer's sex life? How Come Zoe Quinn's was so incendiary? What is it about her that proved to be the camel's back?

 

Not sexist....my arse!

 

  Plenty of sexist comments about Zoe out there.  That overshadows what's really going on.  Another observation; web game outlets like Polygon are mysteriously quiet about the core Quinn issue outside of a few tweets and blog posts.  I'm not talking about the sexism aspect, I'm talking about the supposed corruption.

 

I don't think it would play out the same way. It would take a hefty pinch of something extra...like that independent game dev being a woman. 

 

Be that as it may, I totally agree  - I've read a lot of Polygon articles over the last few days and they never seem to want to deal with what's supposed to be the core of the GG argument at all. I guess it's just that bit more potentially litigious? Or just plain trickier to refute. 

[Guest corespore]

 

 

she's bound to have decent gear, she's a girl!". Believe.

 

Then I actually finding that strange, in "old days" people on "internets" were more friendly lack of social media and few numbers of players encourage people to be more social (at least in europe). Now "internets" is just filthy pile of mud.

 

 

That all ended with WoW. There was a time -  many years agoooo -  when people used to  get together mainly for the fun of getting together. Even WoW was like that early on. I remember the 45 minute Baron runs being the first sign of what was to come. Burning Crusade ushered in that whole min/max speed raiding thing, and from then on Blizzard started designing content around kids afflicted with ADHD. 

 

And that's how all MMOs are designed these days, right?

 

Things evolve. Game devs now have to contend with the fact that the vast majority of their audience can't devote 12 hours a day to gaming anymore, they all have full-time jobs and children. I do miss the days of Mech Warrior online where it took hours to fly between planetary invasions so you had down time to actually get to know your fellow gamers and get a group trained but despite the fact i have basically as much free time as i did on those earlier years i still doubt i would go back to actually playing in that format. Just like the old turn-based combat of earlier RPG's the tech of today has come far enough we don't have to rely on game mechanics that are meant to pad out a game to make it feel longer and we can now have real-time content to occupy our time. 

I can't argue your point that game devs are devoting far more time to the lowest denominator and thus we get a slew of complete shit between a good game every couple of years, they do build games that have the learning curve of nose-picking thus just about every new release comes complete with a core user base of 8 year olds who love nothing more then to scream racial slurs every few minutes and people who would rather run fullspeed twards endgame then cry about "lack of content" But sadly those people have money and in the end that's all game devs want. 

 

Also, it took me a while but i finally remembered where i saw your avi pic from

 

 

[Kendo 2]

Yeah, her avi is 'Syndori' by Hitmanxd38-something-like-that.  I used to follow his blog but he quit posting.  That guy has got to be one of the best elf-girl daz artists around, aside from Mongo.

 

(NOW we're back on track with something that's important.  Beautiful CG characters!)

[Rayblue]

I will not be surprised if America's critics would make propaganda capital out of this, saying that the people involved in this controversy are wasting their time on this controversy when they could do something more useful to humanity.

[Guest]

Yeah, her avi is 'Syndori' by Hitmanxd38-something-like-that.  I used to follow his blog but he quit posting.  That guy has got to be one of the best elf-girl daz artists around, aside from Mongo.

 

(NOW we're back on track with something that's important.  Beautiful CG characters!)

 I've tried in vain to recreate her ever since I first saw the pic ages ago. Good to put a name and artist to her face, thanks fella. 

[Guest corespore]

 

Yeah, her avi is 'Syndori' by Hitmanxd38-something-like-that.  I used to follow his blog but he quit posting.  That guy has got to be one of the best elf-girl daz artists around, aside from Mongo.

 

(NOW we're back on track with something that's important.  Beautiful CG characters!)

 I've tried in vain to recreate her ever since I first saw the pic ages ago. Good to put a name and artist to her face, thanks fella. 

 

http://www.deviantart.com/morelikethis/187347657

 

EDIT. Ump, wrong link.... here --> http://hitmanx3z.deviantart.com/gallery/