problem with nexus?

[Guest GingerTom]

Also, I've uploaded a couple of mods for people here just because they've gone missing from the internet--(not found through 'Google')--and I believe that's morally okay.

[mrghoul]

I have the same problem with nexus as everyone else' date=' but I take it a step beyond.

 

I am tired of the majority of modders there as well. You heard me right, the modders. I'd get banned there for saying this, and I'll probably catch heat from a few people here as well, but it needs to be explained.

 

When you take a 'free to use' mesh from this guy, a 'free to use' texture from that guy, put them in a box in an esp you created with the 'free to use' GECK after touching them up in 'free to use' GIMP and 'free to use' Blender, and then state "No sharing this or uploading it anywhere else or doing anything with it at all without my permission" you, sir, are an asshole. A monumental asshole.

 

You know why most of them are such giant assholes?

 

Their #1 measure of self-worth is the number of downloads/thumbs-ups on their file(s) on nexus. If you mod their work and make it better, or more suited to your playstyle, or anything else -- you are 'stealing' their stats/fame/glory/whatever.

 

I have as much respect for copyright and IP as anyone else, and more than most by a fair margin. I understand the desire and need to protect your work. When your 'work' is a tiny tweak, built on the labors of countless others before you, who all gave their work away for free (copyleft/public domain/creative commons/whatever), you're an asshole if you don't provide the same courtesy to the community that the community provided to you.

 

Ok.. rant off.. sorry.

[/quote']

Probaly subconsiously, you told me were you name orginated from. Besides me being a perv(kinda of lol, like me), you got some great moralistic thoughts there.

 

[Metal_Izanagi]

So let me get this straight. In order of events:

 

1. The mod is created from a Korean author at Naver but unknown outside of Korea.

2. Soma uploads it to Steam. No one is the wiser.

3. Zotman12 gives original credit to unknown Korean' date=' maybe named Elysees, when uploading to Nexus (instead of here at LL).

4. When challenged about zotman12 giving a Korean cred on Nexus, Soma on Steam lies about "rewriting it from the ground up."

5. Spamming Steam and Nexus with a flood comments, Izanagi supports Soma's every word and calls Elysees and Zotman12 thieves.

6. Izanagi brings the poop here, hoping to find friends with common enemies so as to attack Nexus for not taking down Elysees and Zotman12.

 

 

Izanagi,

 

As to your comments over on Steam:

Not cool giving a Korean a hard time because of their poor English.

 

As to your comments over on Nexus:

Not cool pretending to remember seeing Soma's work in supposed planning stages over on a nonexistent blog called halfslice, basically just repeating Soma's lie on Steam about this. Or, correct me and give a link to that blog. And what was that about having one of your own mods stolen and uploaded to the Naver Cafe???

 

I don't necessarily agree with Nexus trying to keep debates out of the uploader's comment section, maybe, maybe not, but can see why they are trying to protect modders from what could amount to slander. If you were wrong in your flood of comments over there, while speaking like an authority with certain knowledge, you just spammed someone's comment section with false accusations. Better hope you were right.

 

And, no, don't worry, I won't reveal your account name over at Nexus.

[/quote']

 

 

Excuse me? You must have me confused with "Ascendant" or one of the other supporters. I defended Soma based on the way someone had spammed the Steam Workshop page for UBW, using racial slurs and childish insults. Now /you're/ the one firing false accusations, and considering you're wrong(I can provide proof of my actual account name on Nexus if you wish) you may want to backpedal a bit.

 

 

On-topic again, where does Nexus get off using the word "libel" as if they can accuse someone of it:

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/633931-the-unlimited-blade-works-by-elisees/page__view__findpost__p__5008283

 

If accusing someone of stealing a mod without proof is libel, and can be met with disciplinary action, what about the way the moderators call people thieves, crooks, mod-stealers, etc, and use other insults in their ban topics, without providing proof? Is there anywhere this topic can be brought up privately with Nexus administration in a civil manner, free of condescending attitudes and threats of bans?

[Surenas]

No' date=' because Bethesda really owns the mods...[/quote']

That's bullshit! When do you kids learn that not everything that is stated elsewhere is legal only because it is stated, hmm?

As long as one doesn't get paid for the work on a licenced product that is opened for public modding the ownership of a game-depending mod that gives credit to the licence owner is on side of the modder, it is his brain work that is offered for free and not the one of the licence owner. Things change totally when one gets a buck for the own work, then the mod indeed belongs to the licence owner or his agent, e.g. a game platform. And that's the intended future - the multi-national ant game company. I'll be afk during the game campaigns of the poor fools.

Moreover, we have games that are blocked for modding. Legally, the rare for difficult free modding (actually cracking) on the surface of these games is illegal. It depends on the licence owner what happens, usually nothing not to irritate the respective game community.

 

If you think different, well, then you are indoctrinated. And that'd be pitiful.

 

 

[thesapien]

Excuse me? You must have me confused with "Ascendant" or one of the other supporters. I defended Soma based on the way someone had spammed the Steam Workshop page for UBW' date=' using racial slurs and childish insults. Now /you're/ the one firing false accusations, and considering you're wrong(I can provide proof of my actual account name on Nexus if you wish) you may want to backpedal a bit.

[/quote']

Soma's Steam version has been removed, as have all the comments there. Although that is cause for me to have a small celebration, I can't go back and verify anything said in those comments. Thus, I've deleted any references from my one post here that were based on that now missing link. I apologize. I will not slander your name here without anything but my fallible memory to back it up.

And, Yes, I presumed ascendant was you after another poster said so and you didn't deny it in your response.

[thesapien]

Surenas, given the number of times you've said that in this thread, I don't think they can hear you.

[Surenas]

Surenas' date=' given the number of times you've said that in this thread, I don't think they can hear you.

[/quote']

 

Right. My generation is the first retarded since the French revolution that again shows the overcome believed slave mentality of feudalism, though now it is the company that enforces the Word of a Machine God to a devoutly listening user crowd that is nothing but a flock of sheep lined-up for the commercial fleecing, a crowd that has lost almost all roots to their leading forefathers in the school books, illustrious men that actually have fought for nothing, finally. Being no longer a credit to those who came before us, well, that's something that makes me pissed off.

[itchymonkey]

I have the same problem with nexus as everyone else' date=' but I take it a step beyond.

 

I am tired of the majority of modders there as well. You heard me right, the modders. I'd get banned there for saying this, and I'll probably catch heat from a few people here as well, but it needs to be explained.

 

When you take a 'free to use' mesh from this guy, a 'free to use' texture from that guy, put them in a box in an esp you created with the 'free to use' GECK after touching them up in 'free to use' GIMP and 'free to use' Blender, and then state "No sharing this or uploading it anywhere else or doing anything with it at all without my permission" you, sir, are an asshole. A monumental asshole.

 

You know why most of them are such giant assholes?

 

Their #1 measure of self-worth is the number of downloads/thumbs-ups on their file(s) on nexus. If you mod their work and make it better, or more suited to your playstyle, or anything else -- you are 'stealing' their stats/fame/glory/whatever.

 

I have as much respect for copyright and IP as anyone else, and more than most by a fair margin. I understand the desire and need to protect your work. When your 'work' is a tiny tweak, built on the labors of countless others before you, who all gave their work away for free (copyleft/public domain/creative commons/whatever), you're an asshole if you don't provide the same courtesy to the community that the community provided to you.

 

Ok.. rant off.. sorry.

[/quote']

 

This.

 

I come from an art community and I've never seen this type of extreme dependance on self worth as I've seen in the TES modding community. Modders beg for endorsements (similarly to Youtube begging for subscriptions), which in itself serves no purpose other than stroke their collective egos. Nexus for some reason or another, encourages this poor behavior by banning and ridiculing anyone who gives criticism for their mods. In other words, Nexus treats modders like children that can't handle criticisms from the public, and in return, the modders themselves behave like children, giving them an excuse to be incredibly childish under the moderator's protection. I don't see why modders should be given special privileges just because they make mods.

 

 

(If you don't like the mod don't download it etc etc) <- Yes, but that's not the point I'm trying to make, I'm pointing out immature attitude of the post in the image. (For the record, I don't use his mods, but the particular way he abuses his position as a modder and the recent hoo-har about his mother, is of interest to me).

 

This modder's mother, as I've heard has become sick lately. While I can sympathize that his mother is sick, I can't put any sympathy for him as a modder because he really is an unpleasant person. Generally he thinks that because some people use his mod, he can use it as an excuse to be a dick to everyone and if anyone points this out, he threatens to remove the mod. (How removing the mod from Nexus is somehow going to cure his mother, is logic beyond me).

 

 

 

Comparatively if you look at art communities this behavior is almost non-existent. Take Deviantart for example, I've hardly seen any image good or bad, begging to be favorited. Artists themselves understand that the artwork in itself is just for enjoyment and want to share it with people.

 

My only conclusion is that *most* modders tend to be very attention-deprived individuals and can't feel happy with themselves unless they are praised from every angle.

 

To be fair, the art community has etiquette against tracing or blatant copying of work, but this isn't a brutally enforced policy by moderators and is commonly understood around the circle of artists. Even if there is a trace, it's usually inferior to the original because if you needed to trace others in the first place, you probably did not have strong drawing skills to begin with.

The modding community is different in the sense that mods can't effectively be traced, only built and added further. But somehow the modders themselves requires praise beyond imaginations and feet kissing in order for permissions to be granted to edit a mod. In the art community you will get a 99% yes permission just because of the courtesy of asking, no ego stroking needed. Artists don't even demand that you surrender the edited artwork so that they can post it on their own gallery, you are usually free to post it in your own gallery, as long as you give credit on where the original is from.

 

 

There are so many stark differences between the modding and art community that it becomes quite jarring when I jump between the two. I could list the differences forever, but I think the main difference is that modders involve too much of their egos into their mods (and can't take criticism), while the artist is just happy someone enjoys seeing their image (and are generally happy to improve).

 

/end rant

 

 

On an of-topic note though, I'm currently working on artwork for a Princess Peach game. Keep an eye out for it soon.

 

 

 

[Surenas]

I know of an artist that has cut off his ear as a token not to hear public criticism anymore - his name was Vincent van Gogh. And that's that!

[Guest Donkey]

To ichymonkey, you are not really being fair here. have you even kept tap on fallout 3 then new vegas comunity ?? you are now critiscing his post for skyrim, but he was not always like this before.

 

When he first created the adult prostitution people kept attacking him in the fallout 3 thread later the same happened for new vegas. He made very well made tutorial for how to installing his mod but as always the idiots refused to read a readme and demended that he was the one who should be replying to all there threats etc.. So if you are going to write something make sure it's the full trueth.

[itchymonkey]

To ichymonkey' date=' you are not really being fair here. have you even kept tap on fallout 3 then new vegas comunity ?? you are now critiscing his post for skyrim, but he was not always like this before.

 

When he first created the adult prostitution people kept attacking him in the fallout 3 thread later the same happened for new vegas. He made very well made tutorial for how to installing his mod but as always the idiots refused to read a readme and demended that he was the one who should be replying to all there threats etc.. So if you are going to write something make sure it's the full trueth.

[/quote']

 

That's something that isn't unique to the modding community. People always ask really obvious questions for material.

 

I get people asking for my art blog on DA, even though it's listed on the front page (my artist name is not under itchymonkey, but my DA and blog share the same name). That name turns up on Google as the first 3 results. SO I politely tell them that a Google search of my name will turn up the blog. If it gets frustrating, or overwhelming ( I do get quite a lot of questions) I just keep quiet and hope someone else can provide the guide to them, that's what a community is for (I also don't want to encourage laziness by dropping a link every time someone asks).

 

However, we don't go out of our way to tell them that they are an idiot, that's just taking the extra mile and is unnecessary. Some people are genuinely new to art and the site structure, as are people that are genuinely new to modding and don't realize that the readme file has the installation instructions. If you want to call these people idiots, then you've effectively created a barrier to your community by being generally hostile to newcomers.

 

If he's a nice guy since Fallout, then good, but that's completely irrelevant now, because he's not that type of guy anymore, and thus deserves all the criticism he gets. There's really no excuse for that type of attitude he has recently.

 

 

I know of an artist that has cut off his ear as a token not to hear public criticism anymore - his name was Vincent van Gogh. And that's that!

 

 

If only modders did the same thing like Vincent van Gogh and dealt with the criticism themselves, rather than running to a mod (metaphorically crying) to ban someone because they can't handle someone saying there's a bug in their mod.

[Guest Donkey]

Well if other users jumped in and helped him dealing with this chore i am sure it would have been better.

 

I had to deal with this kind of abuse for so long too. So even my skin being thick overtime. So if i see someone asking what i have answered allot i would jump on them the same way. Call it rude, but if i find it even ruder if the main page has the answer even your readme and still someone ask for it. meaning that they just grabbed your mod without even bother to read. Now that is stupid.

 

Besides JoshNZ had to deal with other idiots too like your mod sucks, why did you even in your mind created that stupid mod etc.. Now tell me if you would get answered by trolls like this your reaction to poster would change too for the worst.

[itchymonkey]

 

I had to deal with this kind of abuse for so long too. So even my skin being thick overtime. So if i see someone asking what i have answered allot i would jump on them the same way. Call it rude' date=' but if i find it even ruder if the main page has the answer even your readme and still someone ask for it. meaning that they just grabbed your mod without even bother to read. Now that is stupid.

[/quote']

 

I can sympathize. But you have to consider that it actually took them more effort to download the mod, try to install it, then failed, then came back to Nexus, posted a question and then waited a few days for a reply before they could get the mod working.

It takes less effort to just read the readme file and if they had known that the installation instructions were in there, and they would have gone through that route instead. There are some people who are genuinely new to modding, which is why when I make simple mods for sharing, my readme.txt file is named installation_instructions.txt instead, because the readme file (outside the modding community) usually means credits to the author, which people might skip because they couldn't install it in the first place.

 

 

 

Besides JoshNZ had to deal with other idiots too like your mod sucks' date=' why did you even in your mind created that stupid mod etc.. Now tell me if you would get answered by trolls like this your reaction to poster would change too for the worst.

[/quote']

 

Isn't there a rep system where comments like that are voted down by the community? I've seen comments like that voted down and hidden relatively quickly which shows that the community at least supports the modder's product. So to get prissy over a hidden voted down comment is nonsensical. Why would they be bothered by a comment like that if the community as a whole votes that guy down to show support? Are the modders that overly-sensitive if they don't get 100% approval?

 

I've hardly hidden any of those comments I get for my adult artwork. I like to keep them around (and I don't even reply to them either) so that people can see how retarded that comment is.

 

It's not about having a thick or thin skin, it's about knowing what comments matter to you and knowing your fans and community want. Getting bothered by one or two troll comments just goes to show how deeply invested one's ego is in their own mods. Why is it so difficult to just make a mod for their own enjoyment? Why do they need outside approval in order to enjoy a mod in their singleplayer game?

If (for whatever reason) everyone hates it, so what? It's your mod, for your game, for your enjoyment. Sharing it with everyone else and wether they like it is entirely optional and only serves as icing on the cake.

 

 

[Guest Donkey]

If the community itself stood up and counteracted these trolls none of this would have occurred, but everyone stayed out of it and left the modders to fend foritself.

 

So what we get then is troll fest. Feeding trolls is bad thing, but not doing anything back makes it even worse.

Isn't there a rep system where comments like that are voted down by the community? I've seen comments like that voted down and hidden relatively quickly which shows that the community at least supports the modder's product. So to get prissy over a hidden voted down comment is nonsensical. Why would they be bothered by a comment like that if the community as a whole votes that guy down to show support? Are the modders that overly-sensitive if they don't get 100% approval?

That rep system wasn't there when fallout 3 was first created that was later added as an add-on. So all you got as modder when viewing the comment pages was that. It would have been better to just disable the commnet pages later that is what modders did now no one can comment on the mods. But are also unable to report bug reports.

 

I don't mind bug report that is acutally mandatory to make mods better. But saying your mod killed my game, your mod sucks isn't helping the cause.

 

 

Nexus seem pretty bad but bethesda forums is even worse. It's not that modders get stuck up with there egos's well some do but others will suffer from this.

 

Hell have you even seen youtube where if you show some part of your mods you would even get death threats ??

 

But this is getting somewhat offtopic now. So back on topic. Moderators may look bad but some of the banns are very much justified.

 

There was someone here who was actually very close to that too what did he get only 2 months bans. for insulting everyone on this forum. His name was AlivEc0cK

[itchymonkey]

If the community itself stood up and counteracted these trolls none of this would have occurred' date=' but everyone stayed out of it and left the modders to fend foritself.

 

So what we get then is troll fest. Feeding trolls is bad thing, but not doing anything back makes it even worse.

 

[/quote']

 

Actually the best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them. The purpose of trolling is to create a reaction from someone, but if they are ignored, then they will go away.

 

But I felt this discussion is quite on topic, because I've only ever seen this type of ego-centric modder attitudes and mannerisms on Nexus. I've not really seen this on Lovers Lab.... yet. Which is why I find this community much more friendly and accessible. Even having a discussion with you here was actually quite nice, as doing the same thing wouldn't be possible on the Nexus forums, and would have given me (or both of us) a ban for even discussing this.

 

Nexus could have been so much more, but falls short because it doesn't have what I would recognize as a community.

[lemonbalm]

No' date=' because Bethesda really owns the mods...[/quote']

That's bullshit!

I'm not even going to counter all that you said because I don't have the required reading comprehension when it comes to your particular posting style. I'm not saying that to be rude, but half the time I skip your posts because they don't really make any sense to me. Call me dumb if you want. I don't care.

 

I'm just going to clarify about my comment previously.

 

My statement was a simplification, but most games that allow modding also state in the EULA that whatever you create using game resources belongs to the company. That's why I said creation of items from scratch is a gray area. I'm inclined to believe that original items are owned by their creators but that you're essentially giving the game company free license by using it in a mod. Ownership may stay with you but what's to stop them from incorporating your hard work into their next game or dlc and giving you nothing in return? You can still probably sell whatever you made in a different format, but they can keep profiting off of you.

 

Of course EULA of any game company doesn't trump local laws. At least where I'm from, one would think of it more like a contract. So, based on that, ownership may or may not be with the modder. There has been lots of speculation and confusion about this in other communities where mods frequently get sold (the Sims), so much so that there's something of a mini war going on.

 

In any case, I don't intend to argue the point. I was trying to answer Narsdarknest's simple question in a simple way, which is that etiquette dictates that one does not plagiarize someone else's hard work by reposting and claiming credit. Most EULAs state that mods belong to the company, however this does not trump local laws and is to be considered a contract. Ownership may be fuzzier in the case of original content added to someone else's original content.

 

I hope this thread gets back on topic rather than analyzing each other's posts. I thought we were discussing the Nexus and why we have problems with it.

[thesapien]

ichymonkey, spot on.

[thesapien]

lemonbalm, it's not that we don't know about EULA's. It's more about their acceptance. In the EU, they are less accepted. In the US, they are becoming seen as law written in stone. One day, you'll buy something and find an official looking paper saying that anyone who uses this product will themselves be the property of said company, as will their children and their children's children...

 

Contract law is no longer what it used to be in the US, and the reason is because so many are just accepting it.

 

Also, we misspeak when we declare a verdict before a judge has done so. For example, calling something the property of so and so because so and so says so is premature. Deeming a certain usage of such and such as being illegal because it says so in such and such is also premature before a judge's ruling. Heck, even breaching a traditional contract agreement with handshakes and signatures is not necessarily an illegal act if a court decides the breaking of the deal was a reasonable act.

 

Surenas words may seem too poet or sensational, but a dry speech on the topic doesn't quite get across the huge implications, for instance; in my words above.

[Narsdarknest]

I ask otherwise

 

It is illegal to grab all the mods of nexus and for example post them in LL?

 

I hope they understand my question's relationship with the subject, but has long been the focus went to a better place.

 

thx Lemonbalm

 

One thing Surenas and is not to ignite a flame, I say with great respect. Use synonyms to express your view is nice, fine, but there are people like me who do not fully understand the language used here, then in my case I use the google translator who does what he can, but not all countries famous quotes or phrases or synonyms are used in the same way, so you might like me more people find it hard to understand you.

[gregathit]

I ask otherwise

 

It is illegal to grab all the mods of nexus and for example post them in LL?

 

I hope they understand my question's relationship with the subject' date=' but has long been the focus went to a better place.

 

thx Lemonbalm

[/quote']

 

Do not post any mods here without permission from the mod maker. That is bad form.

 

 

[Narsdarknest]

Do not post any mods here without permission from the mod maker. That is bad form.

 

 

 

Obviously a bad way, thanks for answering.

 

My question is if it is illegal and carries criminal proceedings in case someone did it in this or any other place because LL it was just an example.

 

"Bad forms" I think it is the main topic of this thread, I had forgotten.

[sdd500]

I ask otherwise

 

It is illegal to grab all the mods of nexus and for example post them in LL?

 

I hope they understand my question's relationship with the subject' date=' but has long been the focus went to a better place.

 

thx Lemonbalm

[/quote']

 

Do not post any mods here without permission from the mod maker. That is bad form.

 

 

 

Yeah, that costs you.... A Lot...

[thesapien]

It is illegal to grab all the mods of nexus and for example post them in LL?

 

It's one of those things where you'd have to make a case, present it to a judge, and see if you can convince the judge that you have legal grounds and that it should go to court. If the matter has precedence (meaning similar matters have been resolved in courts), then we can answer your question more readily. That's really what we mean when we deem something as legal or not; similar people in similar situations had their day in court and the outcome is what others should expect. As far as I know (and that's not much), we don't have any very good legal examples to draw from in answering your question. Thus, the short answer would be that it is probably not illegal, but there is always a possibility you could still lose in court. Often, too, when people aren't sure, they just avoid it because IF someone is able to convince a judge that it's a court matter, then even if you win the verdict, you're still out all the money you spent defending yourself. Of course, you can "double down" by filing for a counter law suit to get your money back and more. But that's another gamble. The situation thus leads people to try to play it safe by not risking it in the first place, that is; unless they already have paid insurance for such things or have deep enough wallets so that they can "double down" or triple it and afford to keep it going from court to court, maybe taking it to a supreme court, hanging things up and bleeding you dry. Also, even if someone else lost in court on a similar matter, meaning it has precedence, doesn't mean a different ruling is impossible.

[thesapien]

I ask otherwise

 

It is illegal to grab all the mods of nexus and for example post them in LL?

 

I hope they understand my question's relationship with the subject' date=' but has long been the focus went to a better place.

 

thx Lemonbalm

[/quote']

 

Do not post any mods here without permission from the mod maker. That is bad form.

 

 

 

Yeah, that costs you.... A Lot...

 

Especially if the author is already making their work available here, ouch.

 

I like what GingerTom said a few posts back:

"I've uploaded a couple of mods for people here just because they've gone missing from the internet--(not found through 'Google')--and I believe that's morally okay."

 

Try to follow what you feel is morally right and that should always be your primary compass. Then if you ever lose to another, you still win for yourself.

[Guest Donkey]

Actually all mods hosted here had a special credit part saying that anyone is free to fix or reproduce and translate mods by chinese or japanese comunity even a few from gamesource. If you have mod who credits state not to upload do not upload.

 

Unless you get permission first but that means you need to hunt the maker down and ask first.