New Clothing Body Style Converter Beta v0.89f (10-26-2014)

[AnnaFly]

Morrowind. Ah Morrowind.

 

Hmm...I'm thinking I should add some Morrowind compatibility at some point.

Hi Gerra.

 

Oh , remember that Morrowind meshes cannot be exported to Oblivion ... it's very easy only with the Galadriel 's tool/mod , but these two Bethesda games do not share the same producer and that's the source of the problem with " Morroblivion " and Morrowind resources .

 

In my opinion , exept for the NPCs/actors ( it was possible to do something too much better at this moment ) that's was the best Bethesda game in the Elder Scrolls serie. " L'ambiance était vraiment prenante , incomparable  ( in french)... sorry i cannot how to say that in english ... may be the " felling " was incredible ... ( BING translator give me : " the atmosphere was really involved etc ..."

 

For my own use i already use a lot of resources from Morrowind ( like the glass armor and the daedric armor too that  cannot be compared with the oblivion's models ...)

 

I just tell you that to not waste your time ... but that's your " problem" or your " life" . ... and i suppose you can get some  "issues " ( remember the  Galadriel's one )  with Bethesda Software ... so be carefull .

 

Cheers.

[gerra6]

Well, honestly the project that I *most* want to work on is developing an automatic UV converter library.

 

And for that, I should probably put out a call to arms.

 

What I need...bodies that are almost identical, but that use different UV maps.

 

Does anyone have any?

[AnnaFly]

Well, honestly the project that I *most* want to work on is developing an automatic UV converter library.

 

And for that, I should probably put out a call to arms.

 

What I need...bodies that are almost identical, but that use different UV maps.

 

Does anyone have any?

Hi gerra.

 

I don't understand what you exactly want : 1) for wich game ? All ( Fallout ,Oblivion,Skyrim and ...Morrowind )? 

 

2) you can already get that with your Clothing Converter ... if i remember well , with the version 0.72, i've tried some meshes for Skyrim ( arleady  with good results )  ... i convert something from CBBE to UNP and the final result was an UNP version but with the CBBE UV ... so i can use the " UNP version" with CBBE texture ... and vice -versa , not you ?  

 

That's why i said at this moment that your tool was also an " incredible" bodies generator ... and not only a Clothings/armors converter.

 

Cheers.

 

PS : so with your converter you can get the "same" body shape with a different UV , am i wrong ?

[gerra6]

Yes and no.

 

Basically, I'm painfully aware of the limitations of the surface search algorithm that I developed for my tool framework. It's good, possibly the best vertex to surface search that I've seen from a quality at all cost perspective (it's slow and a resource hog). But it still has some very significant limitations.

 

That's why I wrote the UV search for the tool as well, which generates some truly amazing results, so long as both nifs use compatible UV maps, and both maps are free from errors.

 

That's where the UV conversion library comes into the picture. I would like my tools to be able to use the UV map information on, say, an Oblivion Roberts style nif and convert that data to a Skyrim CBBE style nif, or an HGEC style nif, or a UNP, etc.

 

But to do that, I need to start with bodies that are as close to each other as possible, so that my vertex to surface search algorithm can do the best possible job matching up equivalent spaces on the two meshes.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Anyways, once I finish a UV conversion library, it will be possible to generate conversions between any two bodies, so long as I have added their UV map standards to the conversion library. At the same time, that library will make it possible for me to write a tool that would automatically convert any given nif to use a different UV standard.

[AnnaFly]

HI Gerra.

 

In other words it's somethings like HGEC " Like a bab" model  ( from Set Body) but with the Robert texture ?

 

Sorry but english isn't my native tongue and i don't use Translalor ... because they work bad from english to french ... french is to much " accurate" then english ... in english you have one word/term for 50 different definitions , but in french there is too much words with a little difference in appearence  that could be very significative in certain ways.

 

Much of the time we don't need (french users) to wait the end of one sentence to understand what a specific word means ... that's not true in english ... it's not easy ( most of the time) to translate in real time a speach from an english commentator .

 

So , i'm still a little confuse i need to came back on another computer to find the test i mention in the last post. And i was very surprised by this " oppotunity" ... using all converted stuffs from differents bodies with only one texture ... even if that wasn't what i expected from this test.

 

I need to way a few days to do so , because i cannot use that machine actually ( no because there is a problem there , but only because i share its Keyboard , monitor, mouse, and i'm in another place where there is no more space to put this machine near the one i use actually) .

 

Bye, i sorry for my  " partial" misunderstanding ...

 

 

[Symon]

It would be very useful to be able to convert Morrowind 4.0.0.2 Nifs to Oblivion and vice versa.

Converting Oblivion keyframes to 4.0.0.2 and then leveraging LizTail's keyframe tool might be really impressive.

 

As an aside, someone on the officials seems to be picking up the long abandoned MWSE torch. MWSE as it stands is nowhere near as useful as OBSE is to Oblivion.

[Jarka Ruus]

It would be very useful to be able to convert Morrowind 4.0.0.2 Nifs to Oblivion and vice versa.

Converting Oblivion keyframes to 4.0.0.2 and then leveraging LizTail's keyframe tool might be really impressive.

 

As an aside, someone on the officials seems to be picking up the long abandoned MWSE torch. MWSE as it stands is nowhere near as useful as OBSE is to Oblivion.

 

I feel like Morrowind support would be less useful since OpenMW is getting closer and closer to its first official release and as a post 1.0 feature the devs will probably overhaul the animation system.

 

Also the scripting system will be overhauled to support more functions natively.

[Symon]

OpenMW is an interesting project that I've been watching for years. I've no intention of putting my MW projects on hold waiting for it though.

It's a bit like Tamriel Rebuilt which is still inching towards completion after over a decade. I do feel that it will be completed one day, but perhaps not for yet another decade. One day they might stop changing direction with it, which seems to happen to some degree every few years or so.

 

Oddly enough, a guy on the officials who has been working on MWSE got exactly the same 'why are you wasting your time? OpenMW will make it all obsolete!' response.

 

Morrowind is out and works now. OpenMw hopefully will arrive some day, some year. Until then no work on Morrowind is wasted.

 

In any event, I thought the whole point of OpenMW was that it supported 4.0.0.2 Nifs and Kfs, otherwise it would mean tossing away every Morrowind mod, which isn't going to gain any traction.

[gerra6]

In the interest of providing morrowind support for my tools, would you be willing to pm me some nifs and animations (popular/representative mods, not vanilla...I have those) that I should use for compatibility testing/baselines?

[myuhinny]

I have been testing the fallout body trying the settings you said and many others but in game the body was always invisible one locked up nifskope and fallout NV then I tried a new run with everything selected in mesh rigger then ran it through the clothing converter then back into mesh rigger to re add the bones from the BnB fallout body. In nifskope it looks fine/great in game it looks like this.

 

 

This might be a leg or maybe a monster.

 It looks like the spots with missing body are the spot where the meatcaps are/were. Maybe it's because I deleted the meatcap branches out of the nif. Not sure why the arms look like bird wings.

 

[AnnaFly]

I have been testing the fallout body trying the settings you said and many others but in game the body was always invisible one locked up nifskope and fallout NV then I tried a new run with everything selected in mesh rigger then ran it through the clothing converter then back into mesh rigger to re add the bones from the BnB fallout body. In nifskope it looks fine/great in game it looks like this.

 

 

2014-11-05_00003.jpg2014-11-05_00007.jpg2014-11-05_00005.jpg This might be a leg or maybe a monster. 2014-11-05_00006.jpg

 It looks like the spots with missing body are the spot where the meatcaps are/were. Maybe it's because I deleted the meatcap branches out of the nif. Not sure why the arms look like bird wings.

Hi there .

 

Hi Myuhinny , wowww some new zombies ? Cool i want them !!!

Git it to us ! ... ;°)

 

Cheers.

[foreveraloneguy]

This might have already been answered somewhere, but if so, I missed it. My question is on how the converter determines skin. Does it use the texture path, or something else?

[gerra6]

This might have already been answered somewhere, but if so, I missed it. My question is on how the converter determines skin. Does it use the texture path, or something else?

For Oblivion, it looks at material name. For Skyrim and Fallout, it looks at the bshader property type.

 

Basically, if the game recognized the material as skin and renders it appropriately, then my tools *should* as well. However, some modded nifs include skin that doesn't necessarily use the 'proper' material and or shader. These won't be recognized as skin by my tools, just as they will be rendered using non skin shaders in-game.

[gerra6]

I have been testing the fallout body trying the settings you said and many others but in game the body was always invisible one locked up nifskope and fallout NV then I tried a new run with everything selected in mesh rigger then ran it through the clothing converter then back into mesh rigger to re add the bones from the BnB fallout body. In nifskope it looks fine/great in game it looks like this.

Looks like a big time problem in the weightpainting, skinning, and skin partitions. *Probably* a bad template when you ran it with Mesh Rigger.

 

The next update to Mesh Rigger will have an option to ignore pre-existing skin-deformation, which might make do something about the spaghetti arms.

[Symon]

In the interest of providing morrowind support for my tools, would you be willing to pm me some nifs and animations (popular/representative mods, not vanilla...I have those) that I should use for compatibility testing/baselines?

 

Yes, I'll put some stuff together this weekend.

Not supporting Vanilla is the right idea. Those blocky, unskinned sausages that Beth decided to use for body 'parts' are useless to man and beast. So for that matter are most of their muddy textures.

 

It's a crushing indictment that the better bodies team were able to say. 'Wouldn't using the Nif engine this way be better eh?'

 

[Monsto Brukes]

They weren't blocky unskinned sausages in 2001 when they made all those decisions. They even had a higher poly budget than most games at the time.

[Symon]

Sorry, the 'meshes' are not skinned. Check the Nif's. I am looking at Meshes\b\b_n_redguard_f_groin.nif. A vanilla Beth mesh with no NiSkinInstance and 110 triangles! Shoddy to the extreme! A blobby sausage, not a woman's hips and groin! It doesn't move. Might as well be made of stone. Don't mention the vanilla texture for this mesh. (Of course if they hadn't wasted a ton of development time working on their own Xngine implementation that they totally abandoned!)

 

Compare it to another mesh, in another game using the same 4.0.0.2 Nifs released at approximately the same time. (They were doing the dev work at the same time Beth were).

I see an NiSkinInstance! A skinned mesh and it moves like one too!

 

Beth could have produced much higher quality skinned meshes! They could have produced higher quality un-skinned meshes. One of the first mod releases for Morrowind was smoother bodies! The same unskinned mesh concept but actually looking like a body!

 

Beth have never produced quality meshes or textures for 'people'. That's why every Beth game quickly gets texture and mesh replacer mods.

[bolodigby]

I am interested in either 1) obtaining a quality lattice of (large cup to small cup) of DMRA/H/Suicup to Jins HGEC Body Variants Beta (29317) especially the small size (hereafter JinS) upper with L or LL Lower or 2) a good tip on how to best convert.  I have had what I consider moderate success with default settings for ubiquitous HGEC-E to JinS, yet cannot seem to get the H and A-Type garb/armor right during a conversion.  I am interested turning a number of what appear to be DMRA/Cenobite/H garbs into smaller sizes, especially Break Armor types that seem to only be made for the large sizes.

Do you have recommended setting or a lattice?

[gerra6]

Converting from very big to very small can be extremely tricky.

 

For those, it can sometimes be a good idea to do the conversions in multiple stages. That is, to convert from something very big to very small, first convert the very big to something merely large. Try a few different settings until you get reasonably good results. Experiment with the 'two step' settings with different constraints to get a feel for what might work.

 

Once you can convert from very big to merely big, convert that to medium.

 

And then from medium to small.

 

Now, chances are that you won't be able to get a flawless conversion going from very large to very small. They may require a bit of manual tweaking in Blender. But the breaking the conversion into multiple stages, and using two-step lattices can make thing go much more smoothly for extreme conversions.

[myuhinny]

I noticed with the clothing converter when converting from a DIMONIZED TYPE3 female body to a BnB body that the one ankle gets skewered and twisted. Not sure why though as both UV maps are the same.

 

 

 

[gerra6]

Hmm.

 

Could you send me the meshes? I'd like to see if I can figure out what happened.

[myuhinny]

This is one of the DIMONIZED TYPE3 female bodies it happens with all of them in the body mod. The BnB body I changed the texture file from what is in it now to match what is in the dimonized one.

 

femaleupperbodyCALI.niffemaleupperbody.nif

[myuhinny]

I just noticed on the BnB body that there seems to be a mesh problem on the left heel maybe that is the reason for the weird heel twist.

 

 

*Edit 

 

If I use UV the body comes out great but with the ankle twist if I run it without UV the ankle has no twist in it but the breasts are half smooshed.

[varenne]

Well, honestly the project that I *most* want to work on is developing an automatic UV converter library.

 

And for that, I should probably put out a call to arms.

 

What I need...bodies that are almost identical, but that use different UV maps.

 

Does anyone have any?

 

Yeah, not sure where I could even possibly contribute to that. I've been using Setbody, well since for ever and almost always HGEC.

 

All I know is it began as full body UVs and only when we began a new Setbody here on LL did it go to half body mirrored UV. So I'll assume you will want fullbody UVs for this effort, yes? Preferably symmetrical or asymmetrical too?

 

[gerra6]

All I know is it began as full body UVs and only when we began a new Setbody here on LL did it go to half body mirrored UV. So I'll assume you will want fullbody UVs for this effort, yes? Preferably symmetrical or asymmetrical too?

*Shudder*

 

That project was one hell of an ordeal. Back then I had just started using Blender and figuring out how all of this crap fit together.

 

Man...the things I've seen...

 

There were UV's that were backwards, others that were offset, many that were missing entire sections, about half the meshes had bad tears and other weirdness that could wreck havok with weightpainting.

 

In the end, Setbody Reloaded turned out pretty well, although my decision to update all of the meshes to be fully symmetrical may have been a poor one... On the other hand, the universal seam made for some coolness.

 

Fortunately, Movomo was willing to pick up the ball that I dropped on that one and continue updating the meshes.

 

Anyways, I still have all of the resource files I used for Setbody Reloaded. I just need to sit down one of these days and start banging meshes together until I get what I need for the UV conversion library.

 

For now, I'm finishing up some fairly ornery back-end code for the next update to Seam Mender. Once that's done I'll post the next round of updates to Mesh Rigger, Seam Mender, and Clothing Converter.