Algarinor Posted March 29 Posted March 29 Find it, for me it was Mammaries And Lactation. https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/175056 Without, it work again! Thanks for your time!
thor3222 Posted March 30 Author Posted March 30 18 hours ago, Algarinor said: Find it, for me it was Mammaries And Lactation. https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/175056 Without, it work again! Thanks for your time! Excellent! Weird that MAL is having an issue, it works just fine for me, but I'm glad its working again. Hopefully both will work for you with a future update. I have a MAL specific punishment coming soon which should be fun
NTWY Posted March 31 Posted March 31 First off I would like to say great work, I love the mod. But I am encountering issues with the new version. 0.3.7.4.9. I have Serana following me for the dawnguard questline and with this mod active, she tends to disappear when changing world spaces. I can still see the quest marker above her head but she is no longer there. She gets stuck where she disappears and I haven't found a way to fix her. (recycleactor / disable - enable etc...). I don't seem to have this issue with 0.2.4.7 from the modpage. Also, I am never confronted by the guards when comitting a crime, I can see the ones I have done in the MCM debug menu but nothing is done about it except sometimes, I am given a bounty. Similarly, license integration with slave level cities doesn't seem to work for me either. All these problems are very different but I feel like they might come from the same cause. What works : Tolls / search events / reputation change My load order is really messy so the logs might be difficult to use but If you have a hint at what I might be doing wrong, I would be grateful. LO_.txt papyruslog.txt
thor3222 Posted March 31 Author Posted March 31 2 hours ago, NTWY said: First off I would like to say great work, I love the mod. But I am encountering issues with the new version. 0.3.7.4.9. I have Serana following me for the dawnguard questline and with this mod active, she tends to disappear when changing world spaces. I can still see the quest marker above her head but she is no longer there. She gets stuck where she disappears and I haven't found a way to fix her. (recycleactor / disable - enable etc...). I don't seem to have this issue with 0.2.4.7 from the modpage. Also, I am never confronted by the guards when comitting a crime, I can see the ones I have done in the MCM debug menu but nothing is done about it except sometimes, I am given a bounty. Similarly, license integration with slave level cities doesn't seem to work for me either. All these problems are very different but I feel like they might come from the same cause. What works : Tolls / search events / reputation change My load order is really messy so the logs might be difficult to use but If you have a hint at what I might be doing wrong, I would be grateful. LO_.txt 29.38 kB · 1 download papyruslog.txt 949.88 kB · 1 download The Serana thing, I have absolutely no clue why that would be happening - I don't manage follower behaviors at all. in fact, it should be better in .3.7 cause I discovered and removed some massive script lag that was latent in .2.4 For the guards - do you have SPID? cause if you don't, that would explain why you aren't getting confronted. it was added as a req for .3 Also, did you grab the alternate download here, or did you pull a new file from the git/discord/site? i'm seeing errors that should only be in the version i'm working on.
NTWY Posted April 1 Posted April 1 (edited) 18 hours ago, thor3222 said: The Serana thing, I have absolutely no clue why that would be happening - I don't manage follower behaviors at all. in fact, it should be better in .3.7 cause I discovered and removed some massive script lag that was latent in .2.4 For the guards - do you have SPID? cause if you don't, that would explain why you aren't getting confronted. it was added as a req for .3 Also, did you grab the alternate download here, or did you pull a new file from the git/discord/site? i'm seeing errors that should only be in the version i'm working on. Don't worry about the Serana thing, i messed around with her factions which must have created a conflict with the mod. I do have SPID, I have my own ini files but they should only impact the bandit faction. my SPID logs : [10:21:38:396] LMAO_GuardApproach_Spell [0xB08E05F] added to 377/6958 NPC Here are the logs from my testing load order, this might be easier to use. I use the files from LL. Testing out the 0.2.7.4, the crime detection works fine but if I use the 0.3.7.4.9, no crimes are detected or they are detected but it never fires any FG package. For instance, I enable Drawn Weapon crime in crime MCM tab and in Whiterun tab. But if I draw a weapon, it is not detected in 0.3.7.4.9 and I don't understand why. Its the same with every crime. Prices from license control also don't match the ones I set up in world changes MCM. LO_.txt log_3.7.txt Edited April 1 by NTWY
DonQuiWho Posted April 1 Posted April 1 (edited) @thor3222 I like your mod, and hope to be able to use it in future, but right now, FWIW, after a few dozen hours trying to find what was breaking the Display Model 3 (DM3) mod, I have tracked that problem down to being caused by this mod, at least the version of it shown below, ie LMAO - Tolls and Crimes - 0.3.7.4.5 What happens is that if one spawns a device from DM3 that has multiple poses available from the box menu activated by clicking on the device with the action key, ie 'E', - if the device has two optional poses, the DM3 menu box appears but with spurious messages in the two expected option slots of ---------> 'Empty: %1' You can select a pose (without knowing what it really is) and then work out how to place an NPC by trial and error, but that's really not much use - if the device has multiple optional poses, the box containing the DM3 device optional positions fails to appear at all So you cannot select any pose whatsoever for any NPC you wish to place in the device This is, so far as I have seen, 100% reproducible. No problem exists before LMAO is added to the load order, and the problem first arises immediately it is - I don't even have to wait for the MCM to appear Is there, hopefully, some, perhaps obscure, setting in LMAO that is required to make this work, or is it just a straight code issue somewhere? As I probably rely more on DM3 and the other device mods dependent on it, I'll skip using LMAO at present until I know how to either set it up properly or, if needed, there is a fix Hope this helps both you and anyone else who has been seeing any similar issues DQW Edited April 1 by DonQuiWho
thor3222 Posted April 1 Author Posted April 1 6 hours ago, NTWY said: Don't worry about the Serana thing, i messed around with her factions which must have created a conflict with the mod. I do have SPID, I have my own ini files but they should only impact the bandit faction. my SPID logs : [10:21:38:396] LMAO_GuardApproach_Spell [0xB08E05F] added to 377/6958 NPC Here are the logs from my testing load order, this might be easier to use. I use the files from LL. Testing out the 0.2.7.4, the crime detection works fine but if I use the 0.3.7.4.9, no crimes are detected or they are detected but it never fires any FG package. For instance, I enable Drawn Weapon crime in crime MCM tab and in Whiterun tab. But if I draw a weapon, it is not detected in 0.3.7.4.9 and I don't understand why. Its the same with every crime. Prices from license control also don't match the ones I set up in world changes MCM. LO_.txt 4.21 kB · 0 downloads log_3.7.txt 4.16 MB · 0 downloads Ok, I can't debug this as is - I have no clue what version you are running, there are errors in the papy logs for files I haven't touched in a while where the line num is WAY off. So - Grab the latest from here: https://skyrim-lmao.gitlab.io/LMAO-Mod/download/ the full mod: https://skyrim-lmao.gitlab.io/LMAO-Mod/download/2026/03/01/0.3.7.4.9/ and then i would recommend also grabbing the "expiremental patches" (these are a collection of the updated files from the various bug fixes I have done while working on the next major feature) https://skyrim-lmao.gitlab.io/LMAO-Mod/download/2026/03/30/expirimental/ with those, I would recommend making an empty mod that will overwrite the main LMAO folder, add a Scripts folder to it, and drop those pex files in there. HOPEFULLY that just fixes the issue, but if not, send me updated papyrus logs, and we can debug from there. (if you are willing, go on the discord, I am way more active there, and it will make the debugging process much faster)
thor3222 Posted April 1 Author Posted April 1 3 hours ago, DonQuiWho said: @thor3222 I like your mod, and hope to be able to use it in future, but right now, FWIW, after a few dozen hours trying to find what was breaking the Display Model 3 (DM3) mod, I have tracked that problem down to being caused by this mod, at least the version of it shown below, ie LMAO - Tolls and Crimes - 0.3.7.4.5 What happens is that if one spawns a device from DM3 that has multiple poses available from the box menu activated by clicking on the device with the action key, ie 'E', - if the device has two optional poses, the DM3 menu box appears but with spurious messages in the two expected option slots of ---------> 'Empty: %1' You can select a pose (without knowing what it really is) and then work out how to place an NPC by trial and error, but that's really not much use - if the device has multiple optional poses, the box containing the DM3 device optional positions fails to appear at all So you cannot select any pose whatsoever for any NPC you wish to place in the device This is, so far as I have seen, 100% reproducible. No problem exists before LMAO is added to the load order, and the problem first arises immediately it is - I don't even have to wait for the MCM to appear Is there, hopefully, some, perhaps obscure, setting in LMAO that is required to make this work, or is it just a straight code issue somewhere? As I probably rely more on DM3 and the other device mods dependent on it, I'll skip using LMAO at present until I know how to either set it up properly or, if needed, there is a fix Hope this helps both you and anyone else who has been seeing any similar issues DQW Well I will say, the behavior you are describing matches what I have experienced with DM3. I just assumed it was buggy or I didn't understand how to use it. That being said, I don't have the foggiest idea of how on earth I could possibly be interfering with DM3 - we touch 0 of the same items in the esp. there are no script overwrites. DM3's menus are done through UIExtensions and I don't even touch those (yet). Config files don't match. StorageUtil variables don't match. I don't do anything polling that would make things fire automatically that could potentially interrupt displaymodel, so why it is having this issue, idk I submitted a bug report with the details, so hopefully they respond and provide some sort of guidance on what might be happening, cause if i can fix it, that would be awesome! it was in my early plans to do some sort of integration with it, but it went out the window cause i thought it was buggy. That being said, don't keep your hopes up. The mod hasn't been updated in ages so who knows if i'll even get a response.
DonQuiWho Posted April 2 Posted April 2 (edited) 9 hours ago, thor3222 said: Well I will say, the behavior you are describing matches what I have experienced with DM3. I just assumed it was buggy or I didn't understand how to use it. That being said, I don't have the foggiest idea of how on earth I could possibly be interfering with DM3 - we touch 0 of the same items in the esp. there are no script overwrites. DM3's menus are done through UIExtensions and I don't even touch those (yet). Config files don't match. StorageUtil variables don't match. I don't do anything polling that would make things fire automatically that could potentially interrupt displaymodel, so why it is having this issue, idk I submitted a bug report with the details, so hopefully they respond and provide some sort of guidance on what might be happening, cause if i can fix it, that would be awesome! it was in my early plans to do some sort of integration with it, but it went out the window cause i thought it was buggy. That being said, don't keep your hopes up. The mod hasn't been updated in ages so who knows if i'll even get a response. Yeah, it's a weird one. Hopefully @darkconsole is still in the land of the living and able to provide some help And thanks very much for the prompt reply DQW An afterthought: Just as an aside, and I AM NOT a techie, looking at his source code, the issue may arise from something going wrong/a conflict between LMAO and the DM3 code highlighted in yellow below, which prevents menu lists not appearing properly ,or at all. No Menu box should appear for a single pose device. The DM Menu box does appear, with the wrong content, if there are 2 poses available. The other items that I tested had no DM Menu Box appear at all, but I can't say what possible number of poses causes the Box to totally disappear. Hope this might be of some use to you From his psc file........... dse_dm_ActiPlaceableBase.psc ............... which covers the basics of the assigning of NPCs to devices Function AssignNPC(Bool IsPlayer=FALSE) {begin the npc selection process.} String[] Names Int Selected Int NameIter Int DeviceActorMax = Main.Devices.GetDeviceActorCount(self.File) ;; make sure this device even has enough open free spots. If(self.GetMountedActorCount() >= Main.Devices.GetDeviceActorCount(self.File)) Debug.MessageBox(Main.Util.StringLookup("MsgDeviceFull")) Return EndIf ;; if this device only has one slot then auto select that slot as the slot ;; to use. else pop up the menu that will list them for selection. If(DeviceActorMax == 1 && Main.Devices.GetDeviceActorSlotCount(self.File) == 1) Selected = 0 Else Main.Util.Print(Main.Util.StringLookup("MsgDeviceSelectSlot")) Names = Main.Devices.GetDeviceActorSlotNameList(self.File) ;; modify the slot names to show them empty or who occupies. NameIter = 0 While(NameIter < Names.Length) If(self.Actors[NameIter] != None) Names[NameIter] = Main.Util.StringLookup("LabelSlotOccupied",(Names[NameIter] + "|" + self.Actors[NameIter].GetDisplayName())) Else If(DeviceActorMax > 1) Names[NameIter] = Main.Util.StringLookup("LabelSlotEmpty",Names[NameIter]) EndIf EndIf NameIter += 1 EndWhile ;; present the list for choosing. Selected = Main.MenuFromList(Names) If(Selected < 0) Debug.MessageBox(Main.Util.StringLookup("MsgDeviceSelectSlotNone")) Return EndIf EndIf ;; sanity check on slot range. If(Selected >= self.Actors.Length) Main.Util.PrintDebug("AssignNPC " + Selected + " out of slot range (" + self.Actors.Length + ")") Return EndIf ;; check to make sure the slot is even available. If(self.Actors[Selected] != None) Debug.MessageBox(Main.Util.StringLookup("MsgDeviceSlotOccupiedBy",self.Actors[Selected].GetDisplayName())) Return EndIf ;; check that the race is allowed. If(IsPlayer) self.ActivateByActor(Main.Player,Selected) Else ;; throw some data out that the assignment spell will then read out. StorageUtil.SetFormValue(Main.Player,Main.DataKeyAssignDevice,self) StorageUtil.SetIntValue(Main.Player,Main.DataKeyAssignSlot,Selected) ;; and begin the assignment spell. Main.Util.Print(Main.Util.StringLookup("MsgDeviceSelectNPC")) Main.Player.AddSpell(Main.SpellAssignNPC) EndIf Return EndFunction Edited April 2 by DonQuiWho 1
thor3222 Posted April 2 Author Posted April 2 14 hours ago, DonQuiWho said: Yeah, it's a weird one. Hopefully @darkconsole is still in the land of the living and able to provide some help And thanks very much for the prompt reply DQW An afterthought: Just as an aside, and I AM NOT a techie, looking at his source code, the issue may arise from something going wrong/a conflict between LMAO and the DM3 code highlighted in yellow below, which prevents menu lists not appearing properly ,or at all. No Menu box should appear for a single pose device. The DM Menu box does appear, with the wrong content, if there are 2 poses available. The other items that I tested had no DM Menu Box appear at all, but I can't say what possible number of poses causes the Box to totally disappear. Hope this might be of some use to you From his psc file........... dse_dm_ActiPlaceableBase.psc ............... which covers the basics of the assigning of NPCs to devices Function AssignNPC(Bool IsPlayer=FALSE) {begin the npc selection process.} String[] Names Int Selected Int NameIter Int DeviceActorMax = Main.Devices.GetDeviceActorCount(self.File) ;; make sure this device even has enough open free spots. If(self.GetMountedActorCount() >= Main.Devices.GetDeviceActorCount(self.File)) Debug.MessageBox(Main.Util.StringLookup("MsgDeviceFull")) Return EndIf ;; if this device only has one slot then auto select that slot as the slot ;; to use. else pop up the menu that will list them for selection. If(DeviceActorMax == 1 && Main.Devices.GetDeviceActorSlotCount(self.File) == 1) Selected = 0 Else Main.Util.Print(Main.Util.StringLookup("MsgDeviceSelectSlot")) Names = Main.Devices.GetDeviceActorSlotNameList(self.File) ;; modify the slot names to show them empty or who occupies. NameIter = 0 While(NameIter < Names.Length) If(self.Actors[NameIter] != None) Names[NameIter] = Main.Util.StringLookup("LabelSlotOccupied",(Names[NameIter] + "|" + self.Actors[NameIter].GetDisplayName())) Else If(DeviceActorMax > 1) Names[NameIter] = Main.Util.StringLookup("LabelSlotEmpty",Names[NameIter]) EndIf EndIf NameIter += 1 EndWhile ;; present the list for choosing. Selected = Main.MenuFromList(Names) If(Selected < 0) Debug.MessageBox(Main.Util.StringLookup("MsgDeviceSelectSlotNone")) Return EndIf EndIf ;; sanity check on slot range. If(Selected >= self.Actors.Length) Main.Util.PrintDebug("AssignNPC " + Selected + " out of slot range (" + self.Actors.Length + ")") Return EndIf ;; check to make sure the slot is even available. If(self.Actors[Selected] != None) Debug.MessageBox(Main.Util.StringLookup("MsgDeviceSlotOccupiedBy",self.Actors[Selected].GetDisplayName())) Return EndIf ;; check that the race is allowed. If(IsPlayer) self.ActivateByActor(Main.Player,Selected) Else ;; throw some data out that the assignment spell will then read out. StorageUtil.SetFormValue(Main.Player,Main.DataKeyAssignDevice,self) StorageUtil.SetIntValue(Main.Player,Main.DataKeyAssignSlot,Selected) ;; and begin the assignment spell. Main.Util.Print(Main.Util.StringLookup("MsgDeviceSelectNPC")) Main.Player.AddSpell(Main.SpellAssignNPC) EndIf Return EndFunction the issue is HOW could i potentially interfere with that code. There is no events in there that would fire off in the middle of the code to interrupt it. These do use StorageUtil to update things, and that is a place that could be potentially messed with, but I don't touch storageutil for any of the keys they are using. That being said, if I can what I'll do is I'll see if I can't recompile DM3 with some additional logging added to hopefully track down where things are messing up. But just for my confirmation - you can say confidently that without LMAO, DM3 is working correctly, as you would expect? Just want to make sure I'm not going down a wild goose chase
mk2jammies Posted April 2 Posted April 2 (edited) Noticed in my new save that Carrying Lockpicks stopped being treated as a crime (i.e. even though it is selected as a crime in the MCM, guards will do a check and find nothing wrong). Which is kinda weird since it worked before. Opening up the save in ReSaver, I can see multiple instances of the same script (and arrays). For example, I see two arrays called lmao_crime_script (which I assume is the LMAO_Crime_Script Array. One of them has four elements, and the other has three. Neither of them contain LMAO_Crime_Lockpicking. Is that intentional or is my save borked? I also noticed LMAO_Crime_Lockpicking has two instances, one with some unattached instances. I'm investigating because my Papyrus log is being spammed by the following. Help would be appreciated. FWIW, I'm using the latest version and installed the experimentation patches in hope of fixing the issue. [04/02/2026 - 07:45:36PM] Error: Array index -1 is out of range (0-31) stack: [LMAO_Crime_Nudity (21004E34)].lmao_crime_nudity.IsPlayerNude() - "LMAO_Crime_Nudity.psc" Line 334 [LMAO_Crime_Nudity (21004E34)].lmao_crime_nudity.OnUpdate() - "LMAO_Crime_Nudity.psc" Line 257 [04/02/2026 - 07:45:36PM] Error: Array index -1 is out of range (0-31) stack: [LMAO_Crime_Sneaking (210766EF)].LMAO_Crime_Sneaking.SetActiveCrime() - "LMAO_Crime_Script.psc" Line 312 [LMAO_Crime_Sneaking (210766EF)].LMAO_Crime_Sneaking.StartSneakCrime() - "LMAO_Crime_Sneaking.psc" Line 34 [LMAO_Crime_Sneaking (210766EF)].LMAO_Crime_Sneaking.OnControlDown() - "LMAO_Crime_Sneaking.psc" Line 14 Edited April 2 by mk2jammies
thor3222 Posted April 2 Author Posted April 2 you didn't upgrade from .2 -> .3 on an existing save right? cause if so yeah it would bork things. if you didn't do that switch, you can try updating to the latest + expiremental with the stuff here: the full mod: https://skyrim-lmao.gitlab.io/LMAO-Mod/download/2026/03/01/0.3.7.4.9/ and then i would recommend also grabbing the "expiremental patches" (these are a collection of the updated files from the various bug fixes I have done while working on the next major feature) https://skyrim-lmao.gitlab.io/LMAO-Mod/download/2026/03/30/expirimental/ i don't think i did anything with crime_sneaking though - that is a red flag, but i did update nudity behavior
mk2jammies Posted April 2 Posted April 2 Already on the newest version with the experimental patches, didn't quite help. I don't recall upgrading from 0.2 but it is a possibility. Ah well, gotta live with being a little thief and getting away with it, on this save at least. Thanks.
thor3222 Posted April 2 Author Posted April 2 1 hour ago, mk2jammies said: Already on the newest version with the experimental patches, didn't quite help. I don't recall upgrading from 0.2 but it is a possibility. Ah well, gotta live with being a little thief and getting away with it, on this save at least. Thanks. if you want to send me papyrus logs, i can probably eyeball it immediately. re-looking at your logs you did post - when you go into the LMAO mcm are you seeing the crimes listed? cause its not finding the crime index which would mean the crime isn't in the table. either way, my first recommendation would be to hit "refresh mod objects" and just see if that fixes things for you. it does a lot of resetting
mk2jammies Posted April 2 Posted April 2 (edited) Nope. No crimes listed in the MCM. But I think that's expected? Opened up the LMAO_MCM_Script and I don't see any options for Locks/Lockpicking there. Only options that show up are Begging and that seems to be in the Script. Edited April 2 by mk2jammies
thor3222 Posted April 2 Author Posted April 2 2 hours ago, mk2jammies said: Nope. No crimes listed in the MCM. But I think that's expected? Opened up the LMAO_MCM_Script and I don't see any options for Locks/Lockpicking there. Only options that show up are Begging and that seems to be in the Script. no, super not expected, you should have a row for each crime with options to adjust how they are detected and how they play. the arrays aren't getting filled so the references are not firing. if you haven't yet (since you didn't mention it) go into the lmao mcm, the debug page, refresh mod objects and exit the mcm, waiting for the notifications to stop. It should show something like x crimes added y punishments added z cities added. once done, you should see them in the mcm. If not, something is fubar, and send me THAT papyrus log so i can tell you whats going on.
DonQuiWho Posted April 2 Posted April 2 (edited) 8 hours ago, thor3222 said: the issue is HOW could i potentially interfere with that code. There is no events in there that would fire off in the middle of the code to interrupt it. These do use StorageUtil to update things, and that is a place that could be potentially messed with, but I don't touch storageutil for any of the keys they are using. That being said, if I can what I'll do is I'll see if I can't recompile DM3 with some additional logging added to hopefully track down where things are messing up. But just for my confirmation - you can say confidently that without LMAO, DM3 is working correctly, as you would expect? Just want to make sure I'm not going down a wild goose chase I really feel for your frustration on this, and also for my inability to contribute anything more substantial than observations Given what you said - 1 : I went back and tried it out again WITHOUT LMAO in the game, using Display Model SE (DM3) dse-display-model-vgamma1 (for context 2 below was what I saw in the first room entered in Helgen Keep, where my player character is while I 'set up' the game's MCM settings, and everything from 3 to 5 relates to my first going from there to Riverwood using a coc command, all of those without LMAO in the load order 2 : First I set the DM3 multipose cage up in Helgen Keep. I then tried to place one of the enemy female soldiers from the second room fight in it, but whilst I could get the multipose menu, and pose options could be selected, 'placing' the soldier in the cage merely resulted in her running on the spot, as if still in the fight against Hadvar and the player. So far, so seemingly bad 3 - I coc to Riverwood and went to The Riverwood Trader. I set the cage in situ there, and tried to place Camilla into it. The FIRST attempt came up with the multipose menu, which could be selected, but on trying to place Camilla, she stood in the cage but failed to adopt the specified pose. 4 - I then tried AGAIN to place her in the cage and that WORKED OK, ie the pose could be selected from the multipose menu and when Camilla was set as the NPC to be placed, using the 'R' key, she was placed in the cage with the pose selected. 5 I tried that again, but with two other multipose devices, the Double dollstand and the Spermtank, and both properly showed the position (for the stand) and the depth (for the tank) and the 'R' placed Camilla properly in each of the devices So I went back, and from the same save, added LMAO into the load order I repeated 2 to 5 above but in none of those did the DM3 multipose menus properly appear when the relevant devices were selected, nor did the soldier or Camilla sit properly on any of the same DM3 devices I've attached the two log files showing the DNSE behaviour, as with, and without, LMAO I'm certain that - that's not what you really wanted to hear, and - I know of little more that I can do to actually help - although if you have anything you want to suggest, please let me know I wouldn't worry too much about it though! There can't be too many people out there who have ever heard of Display Model (it's niche, and well hidden!), let alone use it in their games! Have a good weekend 😊 DQW Papyrus.0 - Copy - With LMAO DMSE not work.log Papyrus.1 - Without LMAO and DMSE working OK.log Edited April 3 by DonQuiWho
thor3222 Posted April 3 Author Posted April 3 23 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said: I really feel for your frustration on this, and also for my inability to contribute anything more substantial than observations Given what you said - 1 : I went back and tried it out again WITHOUT LMAO in the game, using Display Model SE (DM3) dse-display-model-vgamma1 (for context 2 below was what I saw in the first room entered in Helgen Keep, where my player character is while I 'set up' the game's MCM settings, and everything from 3 to 5 relates to my first going from there to Riverwood using a coc command, all of those without LMAO in the load order 2 : First I set the DM3 multipose cage up in Helgen Keep. I then tried to place one of the enemy female soldiers from the second room fight in it, but whilst I could get the multipose menu, and pose options could be selected, 'placing' the soldier in the cage merely resulted in her running on the spot, as if still in the fight against Hadvar and the player. So far, so seemingly bad 3 - I coc to Riverwood and went to The Riverwood Trader. I set the cage in situ there, and tried to place Camilla into it. The FIRST attempt came up with the multipose menu, which could be selected, but on trying to place Camilla, she stood in the cage but failed to adopt the specified pose. 4 - I then tried AGAIN to place her in the cage and that WORKED OK, ie the pose could be selected from the multipose menu and when Camilla was set as the NPC to be placed, using the 'R' key, she was placed in the cage with the pose selected. 5 I tried that again, but with two other multipose devices, the Double dollstand and the Spermtank, and both properly showed the position (for the stand) and the depth (for the tank) and the 'R' placed Camilla properly in each of the devices So I went back, and from the same save, added LMAO into the load order I repeated 2 to 5 above but in none of those did the DM3 multipose menus properly appear when the relevant devices were selected, nor did the soldier or Camilla sit properly on any of the same DM3 devices I've attached the two log files showing the DNSE behaviour, as with, and without, LMAO I'm certain that - that's not what you really wanted to hear, and - I know of little more that I can do to actually help - although if you have anything you want to suggest, please let me know I wouldn't worry too much about it though! There can't be too many people out there who have ever heard of Display Model (it's niche, and well hidden!), let alone use it in their games! Have a good weekend 😊 DQW Papyrus.0 - Copy - With LMAO DMSE not work.log 243.32 kB · 0 downloads Papyrus.1 - Without LMAO and DMSE working OK.log 284.65 kB · 0 downloads actually this is very helpful. it does sort of confirm the issue is in the function you listed before, though it still doesn't make any sense that there would be some sort of collision. MenuFromList: Canceled Is showing up in the logs on the with lmao but not on the without. so it at least confirms where i should be looking and narrows down the possible issues. and yeah, if i can't get it to work I won't stress about it. But I would prefer to get it working - as noted I had early plans for it - old slaverun used a SUPER old mod called like "diabloesq decorations" or some nonsense. never worked right in SE, but in theory could add a lot of good ambiance. Something similar could easily be done with DM3 to provide similar ambiance to players who want it with world events. 1
DonQuiWho Posted April 3 Posted April 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, thor3222 said: actually this is very helpful. it does sort of confirm the issue is in the function you listed before, though it still doesn't make any sense that there would be some sort of collision. MenuFromList: Canceled Is showing up in the logs on the with lmao but not on the without. so it at least confirms where i should be looking and narrows down the possible issues. and yeah, if i can't get it to work I won't stress about it. But I would prefer to get it working - as noted I had early plans for it - old slaverun used a SUPER old mod called like "diabloesq decorations" or some nonsense. never worked right in SE, but in theory could add a lot of good ambiance. Something similar could easily be done with DM3 to provide similar ambiance to players who want it with world events. Well, I'm glad you got something out of all that! And, as for the blast from the past that was .... "diabloesq decorations" .... if you can eventually get anything useable out of DM3 to replicate any of that sort of idea, good on you! But ah widnae fash yirsel' o'or muckle 'boot it 😉 G'night! DQW Edited April 3 by DonQuiWho
mk2jammies Posted April 3 Posted April 3 18 hours ago, thor3222 said: no, super not expected, you should have a row for each crime with options to adjust how they are detected and how they play. the arrays aren't getting filled so the references are not firing. if you haven't yet (since you didn't mention it) go into the lmao mcm, the debug page, refresh mod objects and exit the mcm, waiting for the notifications to stop. It should show something like x crimes added y punishments added z cities added. once done, you should see them in the mcm. If not, something is fubar, and send me THAT papyrus log so i can tell you whats going on. Refreshing the mod objects did not quite work but right at the end of the Debug page was a convenient "Shut Down Mod" button. Shutting it down and restarting it seems to have fixed things. Thanks. 1
swb2025 Posted April 8 Posted April 8 (edited) Hi there, Definitely looking like the successor to Survival/Slaverun over here. Integrating their mechanics and atmosphere in this much more grounded and immersive way is huge progress on those mods, and the overarching threat and ticking clock feeling of this vast invisible antagonist of the law itself is very fun to navigate and thwart. Between this and Licenses there's clearly been so much work put into making a grim and oppressive atmosphere that's actually blended into Skyrim's base mechanics (hello LOS). There's really nothing else like this. Since you seem very receptive and open to feedback I had a few questions and suggestions if you wouldn't mind taking a look at them. Spoiler Q1. Are there any organic ways to lower the slave level (globally or city-wide) currently implemented, or is that killing slavers business in the MCM simply a placeholder feature for stuff to come? One of the only things that feels absent right now is a way for good characters to fight back. I combed the thread and saw some chatter about Hydra but it looks like reference to its integration has been scrubbed from the description (understandably considering how bloated and messy that mod is). Spoiler Q2. Is there anything like Slaverun's .json file that lets the user see or manage where the law is considered to be enforceable? If not, could you give some pointers on what internal mechanisms determine it for us? I'm seeing NPCs respect outfit settings in places like the LOTD gallery despite not being a vanilla city structure, but areas like the little farms right outside Riften don't seem to register NPCs outfits or collar settings (guards still hassle me though, as long as I turn the 'only in cities' options off). Is it keywords, whitelists, formIDs? Any insight would be much appreciated. Spoiler Q3. Regarding the freeuse (ASF) aspect, is there any possibility for fleshing out the atmosphere for some of that stuff? ASF's MCM states that there are multiple accept/decline options that mods can hook into to provide different flavour and outcomes based on your choices. Would it be possible to implement dialogue, consequences for accepting/declining too much or in difference ways, DD events, etc? Right now we just get a popup box with a very polite request that I can just say get lost to (obviously not counting the 'cancel' option which is a necessary safety tool). I know ASF is intentionally pretty sterile in its implementation but it looks like the potential is there. Spoiler Q4. Later down the line, would there perhaps be room for the idea of hooking into certain vanilla quests and giving bumps to the slave level (up or down) for completion of those? I know you have an external faction planned so I'm not sure what would be appropriate, or if it's even possible, but it's just a thought. Spoiler Q5. Kind of a dumbdumb question for me personally, but is this to correct place to ask about troubleshooting the confiscation mechanics? I have it set to confiscating items in LPO, but when I go back to the guard with the correct licenses and ask for my stuff back, the gift menu is just empty. I even went to the test cell and searched all the chests but there was no sign of it. I know it's technically an LPO feature but I didn't know if this mod hooked into it at all. Cheers. Edited April 8 by swb2025 Clarity
thor3222 Posted April 8 Author Posted April 8 5 hours ago, swb2025 said: Hi there, Definitely looking like the successor to Survival/Slaverun over here. Integrating their mechanics and atmosphere in this much more grounded and immersive way is huge progress on those mods, and the overarching threat and ticking clock feeling of this vast invisible antagonist of the law itself is very fun to navigate and thwart. Between this and Licenses there's clearly been so much work put into making a grim and oppressive atmosphere that's actually blended into Skyrim's base mechanics (hello LOS). There's really nothing else like this. Since you seem very receptive and open to feedback I had a few questions and suggestions if you wouldn't mind taking a look at them. Reveal hidden contents Q1. Are there any organic ways to lower the slave level (globally or city-wide) currently implemented, or is that killing slavers business in the MCM simply a placeholder feature for stuff to come? One of the only things that feels absent right now is a way for good characters to fight back. I combed the thread and saw some chatter about Hydra but it looks like reference to its integration has been scrubbed from the description (understandably considering how bloated and messy that mod is). Reveal hidden contents Q2. Is there anything like Slaverun's .json file that lets the user see or manage where the law is considered to be enforceable? If not, could you give some pointers on what internal mechanisms determine it for us? I'm seeing NPCs respect outfit settings in places like the LOTD gallery despite not being a vanilla city structure, but areas like the little farms right outside Riften don't seem to register NPCs outfits or collar settings (guards still hassle me though, as long as I turn the 'only in cities' options off). Is it keywords, whitelists, formIDs? Any insight would be much appreciated. Reveal hidden contents Q3. Regarding the freeuse (ASF) aspect, is there any possibility for fleshing out the atmosphere for some of that stuff? ASF's MCM states that there are multiple accept/decline options that mods can hook into to provide different flavour and outcomes based on your choices. Would it be possible to implement dialogue, consequences for accepting/declining too much or in difference ways, DD events, etc? Right now we just get a popup box with a very polite request that I can just say get lost to (obviously not counting the 'cancel' option which is a necessary safety tool). I know ASF is intentionally pretty sterile in its implementation but it looks like the potential is there. Reveal hidden contents Q4. Later down the line, would there perhaps be room for the idea of hooking into certain vanilla quests and giving bumps to the slave level (up or down) for completion of those? I know you have an external faction planned so I'm not sure what would be appropriate, or if it's even possible, but it's just a thought. Reveal hidden contents Q5. Kind of a dumbdumb question for me personally, but is this to correct place to ask about troubleshooting the confiscation mechanics? I have it set to confiscating items in LPO, but when I go back to the guard with the correct licenses and ask for my stuff back, the gift menu is just empty. I even went to the test cell and searched all the chests but there was no sign of it. I know it's technically an LPO feature but I didn't know if this mod hooked into it at all. Cheers. 1. Killing slavers SHOULD still work to lower slave level, but not heavily tested. While LMAO is on like .35, World events is more around like .1, so there is a lot of functionality to add on the slave level specifically to make it much more organic, but I have about 3 more main important mechanics to build into LMAO before things shift towards a heavily content focused release plan (Escort system - to take the player places in an atmospheric way - enables a plethora of punishments; Single gate handling - to enable smaller towns as well as potential slaver checkpoints; Noise crimes - not directly slaver related but expands crime possibilities) 2. Not through a json file, but there are a ton of customization features to allow the user to determine when a crime would kick in - this page describes those: https://skyrim-lmao.gitlab.io/LMAO-Mod/crimes/2026/03/04/crime-management/ 3. Long term - yes. its been discussed on the discord a bit. Its not a high priority at the moment, there are a lot of things I want to add first that will provide better bang for the buck so to speak. 4. Slave level, not super likely to be hooked into the main quests, but if I find occurrences where it feels natural it will happen. Main quest progress effects the players respect level (WIP - whiterun/riften mostly implemented), which will long term adjust the scale of how the slave level raises. https://skyrim-lmao.gitlab.io/LMAO-Mod/mod-details/2026/03/19/reputation/ - this can also be user adjusted to enable mod quests to effect this stat, I have a little toolkit built in the documentation site where users can submit quests that would fit into this, though the sites still in progress, so its only there for whiterun so far: https://skyrim-lmao.gitlab.io/LMAO-Mod/cities/2026/03/19/whiterun/ 5. Confiscation is a wee fussy right now - before the next update I am going to clean the behavior to use the license confiscation scheme for users with licenses, and disable hard confiscation until i have a firm system set up in each city. Whiterun's confiscated items will actually go to a chest behind Barst in the whiterun kennel, where long term the player will be able to potentially risk stealing the items back, or buying them back from barst. I would recommend keeping a mod like modex https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/137877 in your LO in the meantime, so if I take something important you can get it back. I THINK in a lot of cases the confiscations are just going to the test cell (coc lmaotestcell to get there - so if you want you can use that console command and look for it and raid it - though I'll note don't empty out all the chests there, most of those are there for item comparisons for contraband and such) I am glad you like it so far and lots more is coming!
swb2025 Posted April 9 Posted April 9 First, thanks for the thorough answers. On the confiscation issue: I'm experimenting but I think it's probably something on my end. Not getting anything in the contraband chest in Whiterun or anything in the test cell, nor can I access anything through PLO's gift menu when you ask for your stuff back. Don't want to send you on a wild goose chase, anyway. 6 hours ago, thor3222 said: 2. Not through a json file, but there are a ton of customization features to allow the user to determine when a crime would kick in - this page describes those: https://skyrim-lmao.gitlab.io/LMAO-Mod/crimes/2026/03/04/crime-management/ Thanks for the link, it clears up what exactly the "only in cities" option means (outskirts). The mod is really robust and the pick-and-choose modularity of its design is one of the big draws compared to some of the previous ones, so I'll try and be more specific, because I realise that I might have relayed the question wrong. What I meant to ask was: Is there a list of places that nudity/collar laws apply to in terms of managing NPCs, beyond just 'city worldspaces', their associated interiors (shops/houses for example) and, if the "only in cities" box is unticked, their outskirts? And if so, is it possible to find out what all of those locations are, and potentially even change /add to them? I mentioned the Slaverun json as a comparison because it lets you see and add places not predesignated by the mod to the enforcer's jurisdiction, so that when you added a location to the list it would strip NPCs in those areas too. For example, Brandy-Mug Farm is left out of the Enforcer's jurisdiction by default despite being right outside of town, but by adding it to the Json you could include it in areas to be covered. It's entirely possible it's all managed in the SPID file and I'm just a thickie who's overlooked it, but if it's an internal whitelist of designated areas not available to the user then that would make sense, too - but that leaves me a bit befuddled by the LOTD Museum observing the laws and stripping NPCs as well. That's why I wondered if it was operating on keywords that looked for stuff like "Solitude" or "Whiterun" in the location's ID. Sorry for the convoluted wording and I hope the question makes sense.
thor3222 Posted April 9 Author Posted April 9 59 minutes ago, swb2025 said: First, thanks for the thorough answers. On the confiscation issue: I'm experimenting but I think it's probably something on my end. Not getting anything in the contraband chest in Whiterun or anything in the test cell, nor can I access anything through PLO's gift menu when you ask for your stuff back. Don't want to send you on a wild goose chase, anyway. Thanks for the link, it clears up what exactly the "only in cities" option means (outskirts). The mod is really robust and the pick-and-choose modularity of its design is one of the big draws compared to some of the previous ones, so I'll try and be more specific, because I realise that I might have relayed the question wrong. What I meant to ask was: Is there a list of places that nudity/collar laws apply to in terms of managing NPCs, beyond just 'city worldspaces', their associated interiors (shops/houses for example) and, if the "only in cities" box is unticked, their outskirts? And if so, is it possible to find out what all of those locations are, and potentially even change /add to them? I mentioned the Slaverun json as a comparison because it lets you see and add places not predesignated by the mod to the enforcer's jurisdiction, so that when you added a location to the list it would strip NPCs in those areas too. For example, Brandy-Mug Farm is left out of the Enforcer's jurisdiction by default despite being right outside of town, but by adding it to the Json you could include it in areas to be covered. It's entirely possible it's all managed in the SPID file and I'm just a thickie who's overlooked it, but if it's an internal whitelist of designated areas not available to the user then that would make sense, too - but that leaves me a bit befuddled by the LOTD Museum observing the laws and stripping NPCs as well. That's why I wondered if it was operating on keywords that looked for stuff like "Solitude" or "Whiterun" in the location's ID. Sorry for the convoluted wording and I hope the question makes sense. Ah, yeah, no current way to adjust by location, but I'll add it to the next update, that should be easy to implement.
swb2025 Posted April 9 Posted April 9 6 hours ago, thor3222 said: Ah, yeah, no current way to adjust by location, but I'll add it to the next update, that should be easy to implement. Aw thank you. I have a few more questions if you don't mind. Sorry if they're a bit obtuse. 1. Does the script that strips the NPCs only run once per NPC/license activation? I've noticed that if I give any armor or clothes to a follower after their initial strip/collaring, they keep those new armor/clothing equipped and in their inventory, even after coming to town and waiting a day or so. It's fine if that is the case; performance friendly and all, just wanted to make sure I'm not running into a bug. 2. If the slave level is eventually lowered back below the appropriate thresholds, will NPCs be restored to their previous clothed/uncollared state, or is it a permanent thing at the moment? They seemed to stay in the slave outfits for me, but that might be because I'm turning the slave levels up and down manually and not letting the world changes do its thing organically. 3. The effects of licenses and laws on NPCs are different based on whether they're designated poor, common or rich, right? I recall reading somewhere in the thread that some of the license (clothing for example) only applies to poor NPCs initially, while richer NPCs effectively ignore it because lore-wise they're paying the license fees. Is it a binary thing like where poor NPCs get no licenses, common get clothes licenses but not armor/collar licenses, and the rich get all of them? Or is there a hidden timer for richer NPC exemption that slowly ticks down as the slave levels get higher, causing common npcs to eventually fall, followed by the rich ones later? I only ask because I turned the slave levels up enough for collars to be applied, and it only happened to some npcs, but in other tests where I cranked the settings up to 100 it collared basically everyone except the exempt ones (just the Jarl's court npcs pretty much). If so, then that granularity is really cool. Cheers again and thanks for your patience!
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