LMAO - Tolls and Crimes

[Ursur1major]

So I encountered something I assume is unintented.

I was subjected to a strip-search where the guard took my Imperial Armour and accused me of being an Imperial Whore... In Solitude... While I was doing the Imperial Legion quest line...

[thor3222]

21 hours ago, Ursur1major said:

So I encountered something I assume is unintented.

I was subjected to a strip-search where the guard took my Imperial Armour and accused me of being an Imperial Whore... In Solitude... While I was doing the Imperial Legion quest line...

 

Same bug as here - try updating the search script to this file and hopefully the issue is resolved. if you still find the issue though, let me know - I do have that dialogue set up so theoretically only guards with the stormcloak faction would call you an imperial whore, but if after that change you are still seeing it let me know and i'll revisit the dialogue conditions.

[jc321]

On 5/7/2026 at 11:21 PM, thor3222 said:

So I am controlling the players speed so they are forced into a walking speed, which should prevent them from being able to truly escape on their own. When the guard is leading the player, I rely on the collar/ring powers as a way to kind of give a plausability for the guard to know when you are trying to escape or go the wrong way. 

There was a gem of a mod called DeviousFramework (DFW) where you could be captured by an NPC and they would ensnare you with a magic collar that forced you to go in the direction they wanted to (there was a red shooting pulse line between you and the NPC ) and if you tried to exceed the given radius between you and NPC you were yanked right to the feet of the NPC (was a bit janky but since you ragdolled to that position) but worked quite well since it removed any forced AI walking mode (awful for VR!) .. I can remember talking to both Gargamel and also Coffeeink (who did an add on for the Lola mod) on how you make sure the player is going in the right direction without forcing them and both their solutions worked really well but aimed more towards caravaning between cities/towns, one of the pain points outside of the cities is what happens when you get attacked since you could suddenly find your NPC has run off attacking and your being indirectly affected for not keeping up with them. 

[thor3222]

1 hour ago, jc321 said:

There was a gem of a mod called DeviousFramework (DFW) where you could be captured by an NPC and they would ensnare you with a magic collar that forced you to go in the direction they wanted to (there was a red shooting pulse line between you and the NPC ) and if you tried to exceed the given radius between you and NPC you were yanked right to the feet of the NPC (was a bit janky but since you ragdolled to that position) but worked quite well since it removed any forced AI walking mode (awful for VR!) .. I can remember talking to both Gargamel and also Coffeeink (who did an add on for the Lola mod) on how you make sure the player is going in the right direction without forcing them and both their solutions worked really well but aimed more towards caravaning between cities/towns, one of the pain points outside of the cities is what happens when you get attacked since you could suddenly find your NPC has run off attacking and your being indirectly affected for not keeping up with them. 

When I was doing the initial planning I thought about doing some sort of magic line leash but I ended up scrapping that idea early on. Lighting/particles are still new to me (the first time i'm doing any of it is in this escort system) and it seemed like i would get lost in it. 

I would love if ideally one day i learn enough to do something like that (so i may look up devious framework down the road to reverse engineer it) but a magic line leash could work if I could 2 phase it (phase 1 being player is in range, fine; phase 2 being more intense and when the player is just out of range.) then long enough at phase 2 the guard does a like tug animation and the player starts a stumbling animation forward. But that would be for a possible phase 2 on it further down the road. I'm already significantly far along with my current implementation, and I think the idea works well. (but that idea could EASILY slot into my plans, so its a good v2 dream)

I do actually plan to have this used later for slaver events between cities! I have "combat started" plans for it as well - basically if combat starts and your escort starts fighting, they will first cast a spell to put you in a prone pose - since I will be building an escape game mechanic into it, this will actually make for perfect and i think story friendly way for you to escape.  

If you escape, it will put your control collar into "runaway" mode - which is bright white - a new crime will be added for "runaways" so getting caught with the white collar will be in itself a crime, so you will need to find a way to remove your collar before the guards see you. 


That being said, you mentioned VR - do you play VR at all? if so, I have a couple questions related:

• My understanding is player animations in VR suck. Is it all animations, or just animations that make the player move? for example, player tries to run away, they could get staggered or choked. I assume staggering is already figured out in VR, so I don't need to worry much about that, but the choking locks the player in place, and they start choking. Should I avoid animations like this as well? (I already have a setting in the MCM, so I can just check for that and block the anim, but keep the movement lock)
• AI walking mode is always terrible - What in particular is so bad about it in VR? With the leash system, if the player tries to run away, and doesn't shape up from the punishment, the guard will pull them back into range. This will activate AI walking mode until they are back in range (which on average is like < 5 seconds). 
• As part of this I have kneeling and crawling animations - should these be avoided for VR?

[jc321]

22 hours ago, thor3222 said:

That being said, you mentioned VR - do you play VR at all? if so, I have a couple questions related:

 

yes, only VR nowadays .. so difficult to ever want to go back to flatrim!

 

Lot's of the animations work very well in VR (including SL ones) but a few are affected by a spinning motion which, for the user, pretty much makes you feel sick (and depending on how you try to stop the spinning you either slow it down and have to keep your head absolutely still or it spins so far the game crashes)  so ideally avoided. On your current build at the point of being searched by the guard whatever animation you are using to fix the player in place is causing spinning (for example, regardless if you click the VR mode to disable animations in settings).  - The guard actually searching you etc.. all work fine 

 

The issue with AI walking is that your head (using VR) is detached from your body so actually seeing your body walk doesn't really work. You either 

a) see the bottom of you body stretch itself out from your head and then after a certain distance you forcibly jump to a closer location to where you need to be - But the issue with that is if you are close to where you need to end up your body doesn't bother moving and you don't end the AI mode and then have to guess where you need to be and which way you are facing. 

b) There's a mod called vrik actions which is pretty good in moving your body but dependant on which way your VR headset is facing .. so if I'm looking forward but AI wants my body to walk 90 degrees to the right I need to look down and align my head with my body before it starts walking .. It kind of works well but still has issues settling in exactly the right place to terminate the AI mode .. 50/50 if it manages it. 

 

As for kneeling and Crawling .. They actually work brilliantly in VR - Walking on all fours with your head centimeters from the ground and viewing everyone else around you is very immersive, and the kneeling anims change the height of your view in VR all perfectly. The only time I've had an issue with a kneeling animation was on Maria Eden mod but I think the nospin patches fixed that .. Newer mods with kneeling (such as binding mod) haven't experienced any issues.

 

22 hours ago, thor3222 said:

but a magic line leash could work if I could 2 phase it (phase 1 being player is in range, fine; phase 2 being more intense and when the player is just out of range.) then long enough at phase 2 the guard does a like tug animation and the player starts a stumbling animation forward.

 

I wouldn't worry about trying to implement, it's not that immersive but it was quite novel in that you had to keep within a radius of your NPC and it helped determine which direction. 

 

 

 

[Alias Fakename]

On 5/8/2026 at 4:29 PM, thor3222 said:

Well if it helps - the "following" method will be more raw medieval - as noted, you will be expected to walk towards the location, and the guard will walk towards you, and whip you if they get too close (you are being too slow - the guard is locked at your speed so he won't catch up to whip you unless you let him). The magical collar method will only be used in this case if the player is actively trying to run away, cause if that is the case, what does whipping actually do to stop them? 

Additionally, I do plan to allow the player to set the default escort method - guard lead, guard follow, or tp to location (for players who can't be bothered to walk through town). It only won't do the default method in a couple cases: some sort of exposition reason (i have one in mind, but it might be down the road - I would like to introduce the control collar as a story based mechanic that is introduced in a demo quest with a jarl), or if the player is consistently trying to escape (ex: Player tries to run off. guard stops them with collar, admonishes them, player continues the behavior - guard could choke them out, but might call them stupid and switch to leading since the player clearly doesn't know where they are going. This would switch to collar primary. Or the guard calls a second guard so one leads and controls the collar, and one follows whipping)

Though also what I might do is add a small damage package to the whips, and do the same blackout sequence I plan with the choking/shocking mechanics with the whips if you get whipped enough. 

Basically with all of it I'm trying to make consistency. The suppression collar gives an in game lore sort of excuse for me to prevent the dragonborn from using shouts, magic, or attacking, as well as forcing the player to walk instead of letting them run. If I just take the abilities away with no real logic to it, it feels like i am roleplaying for the player, and i want the player to ultimately make all their choices. If during this sequence i just rely on standard devices to slow you down, they have to be devices that would slow you down in the normal game. (though typing that out I MIGHT try using the fetters with the ball or a leg binder and the guard following package in a case where the player has no collar - I like variance, and that could make for a interesting case)

So hopefully that gives you some background to it, and eases the mind on the magical aspects! 

and never apologize for suggestions and feedback! I always appreciate it and even though i rarely take an entire suggestion at its face, I always TRY to pick out the stuff I think would work and try to find a way to use it. 

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It's great that there will be options.
I've done a bit of modding myself, so I can appreciate how such apparently minor additions can increase the workload.
With regards to the collar, I did not even consider the Dragonborn's powers, as I have been (for many years now) using In Your Shadow (highly recommend) to block them, and to roleplay as an unremarkable character just trying to get by.
As for the use of the collar after active escape attempts, I thought beating the player (who can't outrun the guard due to shackles) to death (after repeated attempts) would be just as effective, and a bit more immersive, and possibly even a little less demanding to implement. But again, do it your way. I'm just thinking aloud. Your mod is awesome!

[thor3222]

7 hours ago, Alias Fakename said:

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It's great that there will be options.
I've done a bit of modding myself, so I can appreciate how such apparently minor additions can increase the workload.
With regards to the collar, I did not even consider the Dragonborn's powers, as I have been (for many years now) using In Your Shadow (highly recommend) to block them, and to roleplay as an unremarkable character just trying to get by.
As for the use of the collar after active escape attempts, I thought beating the player (who can't outrun the guard due to shackles) to death (after repeated attempts) would be just as effective, and a bit more immersive, and possibly even a little less demanding to implement. But again, do it your way. I'm just thinking aloud. Your mod is awesome!

Oh for sure agree that would be easier - but I want to be very careful with any death sequences I introduce - in combat in a fair fight, no one has an issue with that obviously - its skyrim, combat is at the core of the game mechanics, but I want to be very mindful of any death sequences I add when the player is defenseless - some people don't want to engage with that at all (completely fair) so I want to make sure when/if I introduce that it is fully optional so it doesn't drive away players from the feature entirely. 

And its far funner if the player gets in a new compromised position from being rebellious. I think long term adding mortal danger as an option adds to the spice, and a lot of players would want that, but I want to make sure it works without it

[jantol]

On 5/5/2026 at 12:35 AM, thor3222 said:

Hmmmm wanna send over your papy logs? I highly doubt LMAO would be causing that stack, even if it would show up in it. 

The logic flow is playerAlias recieves the sheath/unsheath effect. It passes to the relevant function (draw weapon)

it checks the quest stage to see if it is active. if its not, it returns. If it is, it calls registerforsingleupdate() at your set delay in the mcm + a couple seconds 

so whether it is active or inactive there is basically 0 performance cost to its calls - the onupdate call has the actual costly logic, but whenever the "registerforsingleupdate" gets triggered, it resets the timer before it will actually fire that call. 

My guess is something else is actually causing the issue and its just showing up in the logs cause drawing weapons is a common action in the game.

I think it is now resolved. I seem to have forgotten to enable crimes for each city. When I enabled them, I stopped getting those drawing stacks. And Great Mod btw.

[Ursur1major]

I've noticed whenever the guards put restraints on me they only ever put a gag on my character and nothing else, even if I've got "minimum restraints" set at 2.

[Alias Fakename]

On 5/13/2026 at 7:27 PM, thor3222 said:

Oh for sure agree that would be easier - but I want to be very careful with any death sequences I introduce - in combat in a fair fight, no one has an issue with that obviously - its skyrim, combat is at the core of the game mechanics, but I want to be very mindful of any death sequences I add when the player is defenseless - some people don't want to engage with that at all (completely fair) so I want to make sure when/if I introduce that it is fully optional so it doesn't drive away players from the feature entirely. 

And its far funner if the player gets in a new compromised position from being rebellious. I think long term adding mortal danger as an option adds to the spice, and a lot of players would want that, but I want to make sure it works without it

I understand, and thank you again, for your response. Again, not to push anything on you, I think if the damage from the whip were very low, like 1-2 points of damage, the process of killing would take long enough (multiple minutes of uninterrupted whipping, likely) for the feature not to be game-breaking, and it kind of makes the obedience real. So, please mark this down as a humble request for an optional feature. Just thinking out loud...

[dfhbi]

I've sworn by SLS for nearly a decade now, but I finally decided to give the "successor" mods a fair try.

LMAO is really great! Thank you for creating such an innovative mod. The core features are working with no issue and I really like how the world changes are integrated. The future plans look amazing as well! For the first time ever, an implementation of the contraband search works perfectly on my setup. I even took a peek inside the kennel, and it's really cool (after the gremlins are officially cleared ;))

 

I had a few hiccups in the world changes, though, in regards to NPCs. The stripping works, but I'm not seeing any collars being equipped. The console shows the masterlist is being updated for the slavery level, at least. Also, the free use law would not become active on the first few attempts. It only updated in the quest menu on a save where I had enabled all the economy changes, for whatever reason. I'm still testing but I haven't seen any ASF animations trigger on NPCs. I have all the available requirements for 1.5.97. I also got Hydragorgon to see how it's integrated. Does the mod gradually enable NPCs based on world changes level, or is it immediately after a city becomes a slave hold? 

[swb2025]

On 5/22/2026 at 5:39 PM, dfhbi said:

I've sworn by SLS for nearly a decade now, but I finally decided to give the "successor" mods a fair try.

LMAO is really great! Thank you for creating such an innovative mod. The core features are working with no issue and I really like how the world changes are integrated. The future plans look amazing as well! For the first time ever, an implementation of the contraband search works perfectly on my setup. I even took a peek inside the kennel, and it's really cool (after the gremlins are officially cleared ;))

 

I had a few hiccups in the world changes, though, in regards to NPCs. The stripping works, but I'm not seeing any collars being equipped. The console shows the masterlist is being updated for the slavery level, at least. Also, the free use law would not become active on the first few attempts. It only updated in the quest menu on a save where I had enabled all the economy changes, for whatever reason. I'm still testing but I haven't seen any ASF animations trigger on NPCs. I have all the available requirements for 1.5.97. I also got Hydragorgon to see how it's integrated. Does the mod gradually enable NPCs based on world changes level, or is it immediately after a city becomes a slave hold? 

I could be spewing total misinfo but as someone who's bothered the author with most of these questions in the past, I might be able to help answer some of them.

 

The stripping/collaring discrepancy you've noticed is actually the mod working as intended: The mandatory nudity law affects all non-exempt NPCs as soon as it comes into effect, but the law that determines when and which NPCs get collared is based on a hidden formula that applies them gradually over time, based on NPC wealth classes and a small dice roll. So give it a few days and visit a few different locations and you should gradually notice poor, then middle class, then wealthy NPCs becoming collared as time goes on. If you've been testing the mod by enabling the laws or raising the slave levels manually, then you'll get the scenario you described where the stripping occurs instantly but the collars aren't showing up (straight away).

 

On the free use law, I haven't run into that exact scenario, but I don't use the economy settings and have it working fine, so can confirm it isn't that.

First, since it's an integration with ASF rather than a base feature, make sure it's showing up in the MCM. It's not quite where you'd expect, either; it's in the MAIN section of World Changes, near the bottom, rather than with the other crimes settings. If it isn't there then the mod hasn't detected ASF for whatever reason. That happened to me once, but it fixed itself after a minute.

 

Also, in general, make sure you apply the laws properly by raising the slave levels through World Changes and waiting for the courier instead of ticking the crimes on manually. The mod can be a bit funny about manual activation, but raising the global slave level by sliding the bar up works fine, so you don't have to wait months for it to progress organically. Also-also, remember to tick "enable random sex" in ASF's MCM for it to work at all. It says random but LMAO is actually controlling it, it just needs that option on to work.

 

As for Hydra, I believe the only implementation of it right now is hooking into a few keywords to mark the appropriate NPCs from that mod as "slavers", so that it'll lower the slave level when you kill them.

[dfhbi]

5 minutes ago, swb2025 said:

I could be spewing total misinfo but as someone who's bothered the author with most of these questions in the past, I might be able to help answer some of them.

 

The stripping/collaring discrepancy you've noticed is actually the mod working as intended: The mandatory nudity law affects all non-exempt NPCs as soon as it comes into effect, but the law that determines when and which NPCs get collared is based on a hidden formula that applies them gradually over time, based on NPC wealth classes and a small dice roll. So give it a few days and visit a few different locations and you should gradually notice poor, then middle class, then wealthy NPCs becoming collared as time goes on. If you've been testing the mod by enabling the laws or raising the slave levels manually, then you'll get the scenario you described where the stripping occurs instantly but the collars aren't showing up (straight away).

 

On the free use law, I haven't run into that exact scenario, but I don't use the economy settings and have it working fine, so can confirm it isn't that.

First, since it's an integration with ASF rather than a base feature, make sure it's showing up in the MCM. It's not quite where you'd expect, either; it's in the MAIN section of World Changes, near the bottom, rather than with the other crimes settings. If it isn't there then the mod hasn't detected ASF for whatever reason. That happened to me once, but it fixed itself after a minute.

 

Also, in general, make sure you apply the laws properly by raising the slave levels through World Changes and waiting for the courier instead of ticking the crimes on manually. The mod can be a bit funny about manual activation, but raising the global slave level by sliding the bar up works fine, so you don't have to wait months for it to progress organically. Also-also, remember to tick "enable random sex" in ASF's MCM for it to work at all. It says random but LMAO is actually controlling it, it just needs that option on to work.

 

As for Hydra, I believe the only implementation of it right now is hooking into a few keywords to mark the appropriate NPCs from that mod as "slavers", so that it'll lower the slave level when you kill them.

 

Thanks for the help! I try to read the forum/FAQs/etc. semi-thoroughly before bothering but must have missed your post. And thanks for explaining the collar system! Modding is sometimes funny like that, where a system works perfectly but it's ambiguous enough to cause doubt. Honestly, the mod is so interesting that I got curious about what's happening under the hood, and your explanation solves my problems. 

 

The free use function started working perfectly about 15 minutes after I wrote that post (in the save where the law became active). Why the law wouldn't activate initially while all the others did is a mystery to me. I should've mentioned I started all laws by setting global slavery level and then waiting for the courier. 

I had manually enabled ASF random sex in all saves, although I did wonder about whether I was supposed to let LMAO enable it. But it's nice to have confirmation it was fine all along. 

 

I may be misremembering, but I think I read somewhere that the hydra NPCs would spawn into the world based on slavery level, but that the system wasn't fully implemented yet. Anecdotally, in my game, there were no hydra NPCs around at 0 global slavery level, but after increasing it and waiting, I started running into them. Could obviously be due to chance/skyrim jank, too. 

 

 

 

 

[swb2025]

On 5/24/2026 at 10:56 PM, dfhbi said:

I may be misremembering, but I think I read somewhere that the hydra NPCs would spawn into the world based on slavery level, but that the system wasn't fully implemented yet. Anecdotally, in my game, there were no hydra NPCs around at 0 global slavery level, but after increasing it and waiting, I started running into them. Could obviously be due to chance/skyrim jank, too. 

 

Ah, pardon me. I just found the post you're referring to. According to that post it should indeed introduce slaves in accordance with the slave level, like you said. I've never used it with LMAO so my bad there. It looks like the original documentation of its integration with this mod might have been in the original file description and got removed later, hence why it's hard to find info; no post history.

 

--

 

Moving on, just a few questions/suggestions of my own below for the author for whenever they feel like having a look.

Spoiler

1. What do we think of the idea of introducing more optional (Don't want to get too porny by default) player/NPC clothing and appearance restrictions and requirements, tied to slave levels? Collars fit well, but could other optional DD integrations be something to consider? Perhaps collars first, then more light aesthetic ones like cuffs (and/or corsets and heels but they might be a little against the vibe) to show off your body (and submission)! Finally, yokes/binders/gags/blindfolds/handcuffs at the highest end.

I get that some of those later ones could be too invasive on NPCs and introduce some headaches, but I think SES2 introduces scriptless ZAZ handcuffs/anklets to managed NPCs with little to no jank, for example.

 

2. Super, super granular and low priority here, but how tricky do we think it would it be to set up some sort of keyword file that determines what kind of animations get played with the ASF-managed free use feature? Again, SES2 has something like this but it's pretty labyrinthine and uses a load of NPC trackers that LMAO doesn't account for. I only ask because even with SL and ASF MCM settings calibrated correctly it's a bit of a random free for all with quite a lot of strap-on based role reversal. If this is already accounted for then let me know and I'll triple check my own settings again.

 

3. Bit out of left field here, but does any part of this mod equip DDs on you when going to prison? I actually don't have any adult mods that hook into crime/prison stuff other than this and licenses. I just noticed that I got a collar auto-equipped when sent to jail, and when testing again with a collar already on, it gave me a set of rope cuffs in theme with the rope collar. If so, then very cool, but I can't find any information about it.

 

4. Any advice on what to do on the topic of female guards? The guard dialogue in the mod doesn't quite gel with them, but trashing the levelled lists with one of the removal mods feels a bit much. Any particular vision in mind for them?

 

5. Hydra does the ambient stuff well but everyone knows it's got a lot of feature creep and whacky stuff in it. Unless you fancied making your own ambient slave mod, would something like this be considered viable for integration? Maybe with a limited list of DDs to preserve atmosphere.

Also, just for now, since it's up in the air, I'm quite interested to know how gradual the current implementation for Hydra is. I know it was deprecated a while ago, but do you remember if it just pops all the NPCs into existence at say, slave level 80, or does it introduce them at multiple breakpoints? Is it global or hold based?

 

Cheers

 

Edited May 26 by swb2025
Extra question

[thor3222]

On 5/24/2026 at 2:56 PM, dfhbi said:

 

Thanks for the help! I try to read the forum/FAQs/etc. semi-thoroughly before bothering but must have missed your post. And thanks for explaining the collar system! Modding is sometimes funny like that, where a system works perfectly but it's ambiguous enough to cause doubt. Honestly, the mod is so interesting that I got curious about what's happening under the hood, and your explanation solves my problems. 

 

The free use function started working perfectly about 15 minutes after I wrote that post (in the save where the law became active). Why the law wouldn't activate initially while all the others did is a mystery to me. I should've mentioned I started all laws by setting global slavery level and then waiting for the courier. 

I had manually enabled ASF random sex in all saves, although I did wonder about whether I was supposed to let LMAO enable it. But it's nice to have confirmation it was fine all along. 

 

I may be misremembering, but I think I read somewhere that the hydra NPCs would spawn into the world based on slavery level, but that the system wasn't fully implemented yet. Anecdotally, in my game, there were no hydra NPCs around at 0 global slavery level, but after increasing it and waiting, I started running into them. Could obviously be due to chance/skyrim jank, too. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks @swb2025 you got it right on the money. 

With ASF: manually enable on game start, and then when the rules kick in, LMAO adds the recipient keywords and such. 

The laws in general are fussy to kick in due to performance concerns on my end, and tends to inform a lot of the little "why isn't this working" moments in this mod. A majority of big rule changes like this are kicked in at 2 timeframes: Daily, and on city change. (in rare cases on a 4/8/12 hour timer) These items often take 1 or 2 seconds to run, and because skyrim wasn't built with good thread handling, if I had those triggering constantly they would be causing lag spikes). Fortunately most of these elements are like economy and laws changes, and I feel like it reflects the real world nicely when the guards effectively have shifts and remember what they asked you to do for them, or prices update daily, or laws kick in the next day. This is why in a lot of bug fix/checking in this thread i ask people to change cities or run around or wait an hour. 

Smaller/Data elements tend to refresh on every cell change with a delay timer to prevent over triggering (cells can be relatively small in the open world, so the delay stops things from firing every like 5 seconds when running around) - these are quick checks so they can run a lot, but it also prevents over checking and keeps things as performance friendly as possible. 

Hydra slavegirls is technically still supported, but its hit and miss. getting everything set up properly on my end was a pain, so some npcs were missed. The same flag that allows npcs to observe laws controls their spawns. But what you are describing is exactly whats intended. slave level controls spawns, so at 1/10/20/30/40 etc slavers and slaves kick in over time.

 

[thor3222]

16 hours ago, swb2025 said:

1. What do we think of the idea of introducing more optional (Don't want to get too porny by default) player/NPC clothing and appearance restrictions and requirements, tied to slave levels? Collars fit well, but could other optional DD integrations be something to consider? Perhaps collars first, then more light aesthetic ones like cuffs (and/or corsets and heels but they might be a little against the vibe) to show off your body (and submission)! Finally, yokes/binders/gags/blindfolds/handcuffs at the highest end.

I get that some of those later ones could be too invasive on NPCs and introduce some headaches, but I think SES2 introduces scriptless ZAZ handcuffs/anklets to managed NPCs with little to no jank, for example.

 

2. Super, super granular and low priority here, but how tricky do we think it would it be to set up some sort of keyword file that determines what kind of animations get played with the ASF-managed free use feature? Again, SES2 has something like this but it's pretty labyrinthine and uses a load of NPC trackers that LMAO doesn't account for. I only ask because even with SL and ASF MCM settings calibrated correctly it's a bit of a random free for all with quite a lot of strap-on based role reversal. If this is already accounted for then let me know and I'll triple check my own settings again.

 

3. Bit out of left field here, but does any part of this mod equip DDs on you when going to prison? I actually don't have any adult mods that hook into crime/prison stuff other than this and licenses. I just noticed that I got a collar auto-equipped when sent to jail, and when testing again with a collar already on, it gave me a set of rope cuffs in theme with the rope collar. If so, then very cool, but I can't find any information about it.

 

4. Any advice on what to do on the topic of female guards? The guard dialogue in the mod doesn't quite gel with them, but trashing the levelled lists with one of the removal mods feels a bit much. Any particular vision in mind for them?

 

5. Hydra does the ambient stuff well but everyone knows it's got a lot of feature creep and whacky stuff in it. Unless you fancied making your own ambient slave mod, would something like this be considered viable for integration? Maybe with a limited list of DDs to preserve atmosphere.

Also, just for now, since it's up in the air, I'm quite interested to know how gradual the current implementation for Hydra is. I know it was deprecated a while ago, but do you remember if it just pops all the NPCs into existence at say, slave level 80, or does it introduce them at multiple breakpoints? Is it global or hold based?

 

Cheers

1. The scope creep does lurk here strongly, but I think this is a little too out of scope for me, at least at the moment. If I tried to implement that as some sort of crime, it would be very tricky to get across to the player, which I think would cause frustration. A possibility exists though down the line, at some point I want to allow the player to talk to the steward of the hold to enable/disable crimes/licenses, and something like that could be a way to allow for special crimes like that. Negotiate to remove a law from a hold, maybe payment is you are required to wear a device, and that can stack. There is promise in the idea for sure, but it would have to be implemented carefully.

2. That seems like more of an ASF question, unless I just messed up the integration with ASF. I have a strong feeling that this could be doable through the ASF ini file, but I don't know enough about the mod to say that for sure (I haven't even tested the ASF feature lol. I only know it works cause other players have told me it does. I also know its bugged to not include the player RN but I believe I have a patch ready for that for whenever I get the update out)

3. Definitely not this mod. outside of in rare cases sending a player to prison, I don't do anything with the prisons. Prison mods are fragile, they don't need my interference

4. I always highly recommend removing female guards. I don't have that functionality in this mod, but others take care of that "Ex: Mysoginistic Guards". (I think?) Maybe when im feeling stoney and want to just click buttons for a while i'll make an official patch removing them from the leveled lists. I tend to lean neutral on that sort of stuff, even though it HEAVILY fits the theme, mainly cause I want to be as compatible as possible. (I would love if one day there is a Males Replacement patch of LMAO. I wouldn't be able to write that myself but I think it would be a hoot)

5. I am planning on making my own ambient slave mod - The Iron Consulate. It will add slaves, slavers, and slaver camps across the world, basic actions for slaves and slavers, and will have tools to provide other mods control of spawns, and be a framework so other mods can extend it, so if there is another slave mod that maybe handles slave capture, it could hijack that system. World Events will be extending it to provide a story Arc. IT WILL HAVE LORE. ITS THOUGHT OUT.

For hydra slavegirls I believe there are 6 breakpoints, and its global and hold based. if you have one hold with a high slave level, it will have more slaves than the rest of the cities. global basically is the minimum (so if your global is 20, but your city is 2, it would kick in the slaver/s that would kick in at 20 in that hold.)

 

[thor3222]

On 5/20/2026 at 9:26 AM, Ursur1major said:

I've noticed whenever the guards put restraints on me they only ever put a gag on my character and nothing else, even if I've got "minimum restraints" set at 2.

check 

sqv lmao_devious_devices_controller (or sqv lmao_devices_controller, i don't remember which) in the console, and see what your device lists look like.

Is this actually during the device adding, or in the early stages from talking back much? maybe its not even adding devices for the punishment, its just trying to shut you up. The device assignment is rather linear so I would assume the collar would be something you get consistently not the gag. 

[Ursur1major]

53 minutes ago, thor3222 said:

check 

sqv lmao_devious_devices_controller (or sqv lmao_devices_controller, i don't remember which) in the console, and see what your device lists look like.

Is this actually during the device adding, or in the early stages from talking back much? maybe its not even adding devices for the punishment, its just trying to shut you up. The device assignment is rather linear so I would assume the collar would be something you get consistently not the gag. 

It usually goes "First let's shut you up"
*Equips Gag*

"And now for the rest" (Paraphrasing)

*Does the animation but nothing is equipped*

They've put gags on me when I've not talked back and gotten the device event, but then nothing else.

I did turn off the "Custom Device list" to see if that would do anything and it does seem they equipped a Collar on me that time, but despite me having a minimum of 2 Devices per such event nothing else was added.
 

Spoiler

 

Edited May 26 by Ursur1major

[thor3222]

36 minutes ago, Ursur1major said:

It usually goes "First let's shut you up"
*Equips Gag*

"And now for the rest" (Paraphrasing)

*Does the animation but nothing is equipped*

They've put gags on me when I've not talked back and gotten the device event, but then nothing else.

I did turn off the "Custom Device list" to see if that would do anything and it does seem they equipped a Collar on me that time, but despite me having a minimum of 2 Devices per such event nothing else was added.
 

  Hide contents

 

I'm guessing the issue is those "None"'s in the beginning of the arrays. 

Try the patches from here: https://skyrim-lmao.gitlab.io/LMAO-Mod/download/2026/03/30/expirimental/ 

then go to the debug panel of the mcm and hit "refresh mod objects"

[swb2025]

On 5/26/2026 at 9:57 PM, thor3222 said:

1. The scope creep does lurk here strongly, but I think this is a little too out of scope for me, at least at the moment. If I tried to implement that as some sort of crime, it would be very tricky to get across to the player, which I think would cause frustration. A possibility exists though down the line, at some point I want to allow the player to talk to the steward of the hold to enable/disable crimes/licenses, and something like that could be a way to allow for special crimes like that. Negotiate to remove a law from a hold, maybe payment is you are required to wear a device, and that can stack. There is promise in the idea for sure, but it would have to be implemented carefully.

2. That seems like more of an ASF question, unless I just messed up the integration with ASF. I have a strong feeling that this could be doable through the ASF ini file, but I don't know enough about the mod to say that for sure (I haven't even tested the ASF feature lol. I only know it works cause other players have told me it does. I also know its bugged to not include the player RN but I believe I have a patch ready for that for whenever I get the update out)

3. Definitely not this mod. outside of in rare cases sending a player to prison, I don't do anything with the prisons. Prison mods are fragile, they don't need my interference

4. I always highly recommend removing female guards. I don't have that functionality in this mod, but others take care of that "Ex: Mysoginistic Guards". (I think?) Maybe when im feeling stoney and want to just click buttons for a while i'll make an official patch removing them from the leveled lists. I tend to lean neutral on that sort of stuff, even though it HEAVILY fits the theme, mainly cause I want to be as compatible as possible. (I would love if one day there is a Males Replacement patch of LMAO. I wouldn't be able to write that myself but I think it would be a hoot)

5. I am planning on making my own ambient slave mod - The Iron Consulate. It will add slaves, slavers, and slaver camps across the world, basic actions for slaves and slavers, and will have tools to provide other mods control of spawns, and be a framework so other mods can extend it, so if there is another slave mod that maybe handles slave capture, it could hijack that system. World Events will be extending it to provide a story Arc. IT WILL HAVE LORE. ITS THOUGHT OUT.

For hydra slavegirls I believe there are 6 breakpoints, and its global and hold based. if you have one hold with a high slave level, it will have more slaves than the rest of the cities. global basically is the minimum (so if your global is 20, but your city is 2, it would kick in the slaver/s that would kick in at 20 in that hold.)

 

1. Fair enough.

 

2. I thought as much. I'll go poking around there and see what's what. 

 

2.a [EDIT - Update] Fixed it. After reading your response to someone else several posts up, I think I've figured out what was going on in my game. Because I've been testing more than playing recently, I accidentally enabled the free use law before ticking ASF's "random sex" tickbox. It looks like that caused the initiator/recipient (slot 1/slot 2) tags to not to get added correctly when the law took effect. Went back and did it in the correct order and the mismatched animations have pretty much vanished. I don't want to spread misinformation though, so if this isn't possible then feel free to correct.

 

3. I actually just found what did it. LPO has an MCM option called "jail quest node" or something to that effect where it strips the player and disables license laws while you're in jail (to stop guards running up to you in prison and getting all upset about the fact that you're wearing the prison rags they gave you. Classic guards). Anyway, turns out it actually equips a collar, too, even though it doesn't say so in the MCM description, because unticking the option prevented it from equipping on arrest. Went and asked Nua and confirmed it was that. Anyway, nothing to do with LMAO but thought I'd explain in case anyone else runs into it in future.

 

4. Understood.

 

5. Once again, very ambitious. Looking forward to seeing it play out.

 

6. Very nice. Always good to see modularity.

 

BONUS question: Does the "Travel Permit Requires Male Follower" option in World Change's Laws menu do anything at present? If so, what part is it supposed to interfere with? Does it stop you from buying it without an active male follower, or does it render the permit useless/invalid and get you apprehended down the regular path like if you didn't have the permit at all? I've been testing it and I can buy the travel permit with no followers at all, as well as travel from hold to hold with no followers while holding the permit. Travel Permit otherwise functions as intended, not anything on License's end, it's just this option that doesn't seem to do anything for me.

 

 

Edited May 28 by swb2025

[dfhbi]

14 hours ago, thor3222 said:

Thanks @swb2025 you got it right on the money. 

With ASF: manually enable on game start, and then when the rules kick in, LMAO adds the recipient keywords and such. 

The laws in general are fussy to kick in due to performance concerns on my end, and tends to inform a lot of the little "why isn't this working" moments in this mod. A majority of big rule changes like this are kicked in at 2 timeframes: Daily, and on city change. (in rare cases on a 4/8/12 hour timer) These items often take 1 or 2 seconds to run, and because skyrim wasn't built with good thread handling, if I had those triggering constantly they would be causing lag spikes). Fortunately most of these elements are like economy and laws changes, and I feel like it reflects the real world nicely when the guards effectively have shifts and remember what they asked you to do for them, or prices update daily, or laws kick in the next day. This is why in a lot of bug fix/checking in this thread i ask people to change cities or run around or wait an hour. 

Smaller/Data elements tend to refresh on every cell change with a delay timer to prevent over triggering (cells can be relatively small in the open world, so the delay stops things from firing every like 5 seconds when running around) - these are quick checks so they can run a lot, but it also prevents over checking and keeps things as performance friendly as possible. 

Hydra slavegirls is technically still supported, but its hit and miss. getting everything set up properly on my end was a pain, so some npcs were missed. The same flag that allows npcs to observe laws controls their spawns. But what you are describing is exactly whats intended. slave level controls spawns, so at 1/10/20/30/40 etc slavers and slaves kick in over time.

 

 

Thanks for the confirmation, and again, thank you for the marvelous mod!

The low performance cost of LMAO is much appreciated, and certainly preferable to any alternative. 

 

Maybe I'm still missing something in terms of configuration, load order, or requirements (or maybe I need to be a little bit more patient haha). After wandering between cities for about an in-game week after the collar laws, the console reports that there are no items to equip after the device list update. I have zaz 8+, DDNG 0.42, and non-devious devices from the linked page to Nuascura's modtweaks (both non-devious and masterlist plugins are active). Sorry, this is probably just me being an idiot, so bear with me. Is there supposed to be a file to configure the device lists, or is it all handled by a script? 

 

Another dumb question, if the free use law quest gets perpetually stuck in the "soon this law will come into effect" stage in misc quests, is it fine to advance it using console commands? It's for some reason the only law where this has happened multiple times. 

 

In regards to future plans with the Iron Consulate and slavers (really looking forward to all this), will hydra still have some limited amount of support/integration, or is it going to become unsupported? I essentially got it just for LMAO, so I'm not that heavily invested in keeping it around. Just generally interested in your plans and whether I should drop it pre-emptively from my modlist. 

 

[Ursur1major]

14 hours ago, thor3222 said:

I'm guessing the issue is those "None"'s in the beginning of the arrays. 

Try the patches from here: https://skyrim-lmao.gitlab.io/LMAO-Mod/download/2026/03/30/expirimental/ 

then go to the debug panel of the mcm and hit "refresh mod objects"

I'm still seeing a lot of "none" when I run "sqv lmao_devices_controller" after installing those and refreshing.

[swb2025]

1 hour ago, dfhbi said:

After wandering between cities for about an in-game week after the collar laws, the console reports that there are no items to equip after the device list update. I have zaz 8+, DDNG 0.42, and non-devious devices from the linked page to Nuascura's modtweaks (both non-devious and masterlist plugins are active).

 

That definitely sounds like it isn't talking to DD correctly, or you might have an outdated version with item IDs different to the ones LMAO is pointing towards.

 

Just to make sure it's not a rookie mistake, check the following: 

 

1. Do you have DD 5.2 as well as DD NG 0.42? If you're running DD NG (which is what LMAO requires) then you need both, and NG 0.42 needs to overwrite 5.2. 

 

2. Do you happen to be running Unforgiving Devices? If not, then discard this, but if you are, then as per the DD NG description page: 

Spoiler

Unforgiving Devices users:

If you are using UD 2.1.1, do not use it with NG - it will break things!

 

Use the new Unforgiving Devices 3.0 and create a new patch for your load order using the Synthesis patcher (make sure to re-run it whenever you update DD NG, so any new devices get patched)

 

--

 

Note that the version linked in LMAO's soft dependencies list is the old 2.1.1 version, so I don't know if switching from that would break anything either. Worst case scenario just try a game without Unforgiving Devices and see if that fixes it.

 

1 hour ago, dfhbi said:

Another dumb question, if the free use law quest gets perpetually stuck in the "soon this law will come into effect" stage in misc quests, is it fine to advance it using console commands? It's for some reason the only law where this has happened multiple times. 

 

So I don't know how the quest stages work exactly, but I believe the intended order is as follows, with each subsequent update replacing the last one:

 

1. Courier gives you a letter, misc quest pops up saying "~You got a note, you should read it"

2. Read the note, misc quest pops up saying "Soon X law will come into effect."

3. 24 hrs (by default) after receiving the letter, you get a misc quest saying "X law is now in place and must be obeyed"

 

1. Make sure you didn't accidently change the waiting period for step 3 (between receiving the letter and the law activating) to be longer than what you thought it was.

 

2. If I'm not mistaken, the "Soon this law will come into effect" misc quest that pops up after reading the letter (step 2) can actually be (accidentally?) bypassed by not reading it in time, and the law will proceed from Step 1 to Step 3 without it. But, if you read the letter after the law has come into effect, the step 2 misc quest might pop up and sit there in your journal anyway, waiting for Step 3 to activate even though it already has. I don't know if this goes away after 24 hrs like it normally would, but the fact that it isn't a mandatory quest stage suggests it's benign, and can probably be ignored as long as the mechanic itself is actually kicking in properly. But if it's bothering you...

 

3. If it is the case that everything is technically working as intended, but the Step 2 misc quest is still sitting in your journal, then you probably could remove it without setting the world on fire, but you'd need to find the quest name/stage and console it out. Instead, I'd suggest just quickly rolling back and reading the letter before the law activates.

 

1 hour ago, dfhbi said:

will hydra still have some limited amount of support/integration, or is it going to become unsupported? I essentially got it just for LMAO, so I'm not that heavily invested in keeping it around. Just generally interested in your plans and whether I should drop it pre-emptively from my modlist. 

 

From what I've read (and the author may correct me so take it with a grain of salt), Hydra integration is present but officially deprecated and will not be added to or actively supported further in any substantial way - I expect due to it being too big and full of bizarre world space edits and whacky NPCs with bonkers levelled lists to fully rein in to LMAO's theme, especially with the other ambient slaves mod planned. It's up to you if you want to keep it as a stopgap, but it's basically 'what you see is what you get' experience for now, and will eventually become totally obsolete.

[dfhbi]

7 minutes ago, swb2025 said:

 

That definitely sounds like it isn't talking to DD correctly, or you might have an outdated version with item IDs different to the ones LMAO is pointing towards.

 

Just to make sure it's not a rookie mistake, check the following: 

 

1. Do you have DD 5.2 as well as DD NG 0.42? If you're running DD NG (which is what LMAO requires) then you need both, and NG 0.42 needs to overwrite 5.2. 

 

2. Do you happen to be running Unforgiving Devices? If not, then discard this, but if you are, then as per the DD NG description page: 

  Reveal hidden contents

Unforgiving Devices users:

If you are using UD 2.1.1, do not use it with NG - it will break things!

 

Use the new Unforgiving Devices 3.0 and create a new patch for your load order using the Synthesis patcher (make sure to re-run it whenever you update DD NG, so any new devices get patched)

 

--

 

Note that the version linked in LMAO's soft dependencies list is the old 2.1.1 version, so I don't know if switching from that would break anything either. Worst case scenario just try a game without Unforgiving Devices and see if that fixes it.

 

 

So I don't know how the quest stages work exactly, but I believe the intended order is as follows, with each subsequent update replacing the last one:

 

1. Courier gives you a letter, misc quest pops up saying "~You got a note, you should read it"

2. Read the note, misc quest pops up saying "Soon X law will come into effect."

3. 24 hrs (by default) after receiving the letter, you get a misc quest saying "X law is now in place and must be obeyed"

 

1. Make sure you didn't accidently change the waiting period for step 3 (between receiving the letter and the law activating) to be longer than what you thought it was.

 

2. If I'm not mistaken, the "Soon this law will come into effect" misc quest that pops up after reading the letter (step 2) can actually be (accidentally?) bypassed by not reading it in time, and the law will proceed from Step 1 to Step 3 without it. But, if you read the letter after the law has come into effect, the step 2 misc quest might pop up and sit there in your journal anyway, waiting for Step 3 to activate even though it already has. I don't know if this goes away after 24 hrs like it normally would, but the fact that it isn't a mandatory quest stage suggests it's benign, and can probably be ignored as long as the mechanic itself is actually kicking in properly. But if it's bothering you...

 

3. If it is the case that everything is technically working as intended, but the Step 2 misc quest is still sitting in your journal, then you probably could remove it without setting the world on fire, but you'd need to find the quest name/stage and console it out. Instead, I'd suggest just quickly rolling back and reading the letter before the law activates.

 

 

From what I've read (and the author may correct me so take it with a grain of salt), Hydra integration is present but officially deprecated and will not be added to or actively supported further in any substantial way - I expect due to it being too big and full of bizarre world space edits and whacky NPCs with bonkers levelled lists to fully rein in to LMAO's theme, especially with the other ambient slaves mod planned. It's up to you if you want to keep it as a stopgap, but it's basically 'what you see is what you get' experience for now, and will eventually become totally obsolete.

 

Thanks for all the help and the quick response!

1.1 Yeah, my DDNG installation should be alright, and it's overwriting DD5.2. Sorry for omitting that part; a correct installation shouldn't be assumed in troubleshooting scenarios. xEdit didn't show anything out of the ordinary with the plugins, either. However, I haven't looked too deeply into the non-devious devices. It's just the two scriptless devices plugins, right?

1.2 I don't use Unforgiving devices. I have DD BRRF, but I do not use DD for him. That might be relevant for building the lists. 

 

2. Yeah, those steps are how I progress with all the other laws and occasionally the free use law. I'd set the global slavery value high, wait for the courier, read all the letters, then wait 24h, and they'd activate. It's a bit of a forced approach, but it's just for testing. Organically increasing the slavery level by playing for days would probably work better. Every other law activates and updates in the quedt journal simultaneously, except the free use law. I tried this on a few new saves with some settings adjustments, and found that free use only activates (on my setup), whenever the courier delivers two copies of the "morale boost" letter. The letter item has only one formID, but the copies don't stack. I suppose there's some mcm setting, global value, or simply a necessity to refresh mod objects in the mcm, which allows the quest to advance smoothly. Or there might be a problem when all laws are simultaneously activated.

If no one else has run into this issue, it's probably not very relevant. I can somewhat reliably savescum/brute force it to work, and it only needs to run once. Understanding the logic of why it sometimes decides to fail is just a cherry on top. 

 

3. Fair enough. I like how Hydra brings some life and visible world changes when used with the current LMAO. I'm not a huge fan of all the worldspace and cell edits/additions hydra does, but that mod is pretty old. If the support should be removed in future versions of LMAO, it doesn't seem worthwhile keeping hydra around long term in the modlist. In a zero integration scenario with a future version of LMAO, it would be pretty jarring to have all of the hydra NPCs around before slavery becomes a thing in the world. That's the reason why I added hydra in the first place, to mesh together with LMAO. 

[Mashi]

18 hours ago, thor3222 said:

5. I am planning on making my own ambient slave mod - The Iron Consulate. It will add slaves, slavers, and slaver camps across the world, basic actions for slaves and slavers, and will have tools to provide other mods control of spawns, and be a framework so other mods can extend it, so if there is another slave mod that maybe handles slave capture, it could hijack that system. World Events will be extending it to provide a story Arc. IT WILL HAVE LORE. ITS THOUGHT OUT.

For hydra slavegirls I believe there are 6 breakpoints, and its global and hold based. if you have one hold with a high slave level, it will have more slaves than the rest of the cities. global basically is the minimum (so if your global is 20, but your city is 2, it would kick in the slaver/s that would kick in at 20 in that hold.)

 

 

There is something *kinda* like what you're talking about already, through the author is poof and there is a bit of an update. Haven't looked or tested it, but it may save some time or simply be a waste