LMAO - Tolls and Crimes

[Tempmania]

10 hours ago, thor3222 said:

I don't have any specific plans with letting the player join the slavers guild, but its not out of the question, and as I get more of the functionality and events completed the focus will become more and more story

 

Instead of joining the Slavers Guild, the female PC could be given quests and objectives by the Slavers to advance the slave level of a city. This could still put the female Dragonborn in her place but ideally without the immersion breaking mistreatment you see in Slaverun. The slavers have to actively coax, trick or abuse the law to make the Dragonborn be treated like a public slut. The tone and dialogue in Public Whore is probably the best for this. For those that want a slaver PC, maybe an optional integration for Paradise Halls to sell slaves to the Guild?

 

As for getting enslaved to a master, I would prefer to just use Devious Followers or Submissive Lola instead of Slaverun's approach. Perhaps just a check if the PC has a male follower in some places like entering or leaving the city (configurable)? Then it's up to the player what mods or followers they use.

 

11 hours ago, thor3222 said:

The slave level by itself is a race against the clock for a virtuous player regardless, as even if the player isn't around, it will slowly creep up in all areas of tamriel. if the overall world slave level is high enough, slave laws are enacted, and the virtuous player is boned.

 

Sounds great. I also hope there is some quests or dialogue that hook in to the world/city slave level. Just having things change without quests or dialogue that foreshadow or trigger the potential changes can be kinda jarring. Maybe the player has to complete a quest - probably to just hear the Jarl enact the new laws. This could also be more complicated too like completing quests for Slavers like getting the buy-in of the locals. Try to decentralise the quests as well. Having the quest giver be local to the city would reduce the pain of backtracking like in Slaverun.

 

Another idea I have but is probably not easy to implement is a Dangerous -> Compliant reputation. The more dangerous the Dragonborn, ie. the more laws she breaks, or the more prudish her behaviour, the more DD she has to equip in cities. The safer the Dragonborn, ie. the higher her SLSF reputation or Public Whore quests completed, then she is only required to strut around naked like a public whore - perhaps she is even allowed to wear TAWOBA armors or get licences at a discount. 

 

There will always be a baseline misogyny that increases with the city slave level, but whether they mistreat the PC like a slave (DD) or a public slut (TAWOBA) depends on her compliance to the new laws. The basic premise being that a law abiding (free) woman has to be open and submissive to sexual encounters. This would avoid the immersion breaking dialogue with other free women (which now only require a wardrobe change), but it could also add the setting's context that the other female slaves are mostly bandits or dangerous criminals.

Edited May 2, 2025 by Tempmania

[wiffe]

work with ostim sir?

Edited May 2, 2025 by wiffe

[Ursur1major]

Will be looking forward to this, will be interesting to try out next time I start a new playthrough.

[Whollupwhozit]

Hope you take the ideas (from community or yours) in proper pace. Don't want another situation like Pyramid who burnt out due to their own ambition.

[thor3222]

5 hours ago, wiffe said:

work with ostim sir?

Shouldn't interfere but I don't have any specific calls to ostim, so the sex events wouldn't work (or be an option without sexlab). That being said, I'll keep it in the back of my mind for inclusion later, after the crimes and punishments are generally working.

 

3 hours ago, Whollupwhozit said:

Hope you take the ideas (from community or yours) in proper pace. Don't want another situation like Pyramid who burnt out due to their own ambition.

Haha no worries there. If anything I have been exceptionally slow leading up to this. I have rewritten most of the functionality in this mod about 4-5 times before releasing it. Getting it out should stop the brain gremlins from telling me "its not good enough! do it again!" but because of that a lot of the ideas and plans are already half written

[thor3222]

9 hours ago, Tempmania said:

Sounds great. I also hope there is some quests or dialogue that hook in to the world/city slave level. Just having things change without quests or dialogue that foreshadow or trigger the potential changes can be kinda jarring. Maybe the player has to complete a quest - probably to just hear the Jarl enact the new laws. This could also be more complicated too like completing quests for Slavers like getting the buy-in of the locals. Try to decentralise the quests as well. Having the quest giver be local to the city would reduce the pain of backtracking like in Slaverun.

 

Another idea I have but is probably not easy to implement is a Dangerous -> Compliant reputation. The more dangerous the Dragonborn, ie. the more laws she breaks, or the more prudish her behaviour, the more DD she has to equip in cities. The safer the Dragonborn, ie. the higher her SLSF reputation or Public Whore quests completed, then she is only required to strut around naked like a public whore - perhaps she is even allowed to wear TAWOBA armors or get licences at a discount. 

 

There will always be a baseline misogyny that increases with the city slave level, but whether they mistreat the PC like a slave (DD) or a public slut (TAWOBA) depends on her compliance to the new laws. The basic premise being that a law abiding (free) woman has to be open and submissive to sexual encounters. This would avoid the immersion breaking dialogue with other free women (which now only require a wardrobe change), but it could also add the setting's context that the other female slaves are mostly bandits or dangerous criminals.

Yes, there will be quests and dialogue to add context to everything. I want to add sweet sweet flavor but I got to get the skeleton all built up first so the flavor has purpose.

That is a big reason for the "Kennels" it provides opportunities for stories, and I have a decent amount planned.

 

 

The Dangerous -> Compliant is also something that is in the back of my mind. I keep going back and forth whether or not I want to do player stats, if I did it would mirror sexist guards so I could use it to adjust sexist guards player dialogue. These are like submissive/dominant, timid/defiant, masochistic/slutty

I ultimately want the player to kind of find their own voice, but writing all the different dialogues is hard, so its definitely a down the road sort of thing if I implement it, but its also something I would want to get the stats built up earlier so when the lines do start coming it just works.


Also yes, a paradise halls integration would be great. I'll look into that when I get more into that piece. I haven't played much from a slavers perspective so I'll be looking for community feedback on how to implement that in the funnest way possible.

Edited May 2, 2025 by thor3222

[aslab]

On 5/1/2025 at 12:55 PM, thor3222 said:

I love that. I wasn't considering doing license confiscation, but it could definitely be added as a harsher punishment for committing crimes - one that guards can potentially do once you piss them off enough. Maybe something with a higher chance if you are caught running around like an idiot with a sword in town for removing a weapons license, or similarly with a magic license.

Public whore will also be a harsh punishment to do the sort of forced prostitution thing, tho neither will be based off of bounty, but the guards harrassment/hostility guage. Bounties annoy me. They are hard for the player to track and cause immediate problems. Great when you want the player to go to jail, but otherwise boring from a gameplay perspective.

I’m happy that you like the license confiscation idea. I also completely agree that the base games bounty system is horrible. That’s why I try to circumvent the base games bounty system by installing mods that let the PC have sex with guards for reduced bounty. The vanilla jail system is horrendous and I couldn’t find a proper replacement (the jail alternative mods usually break my game or are too restrictive). I ended up installing the “Serve sentence” mod from nexus which makes me need to escape the cell without losing all my bounty or load an earlier save.

 

Just because the vanilla bounty and jail system is horrendous doesn’t mean that the bounty system should be thrown out. If the PC has alternate ways to work off the bounty when the bounty is bellow 1000 then the game play becomes more enjoyable. When the bounty goes over 1000 then instead of jail the PC may be sent to public whore where the PC is in servitude until the debt is paid (that would need a link into public whore so the debt owed can be set per each case).

 

Anyway, I think what you are working on might turn into a great mod and don’t let me talk you into doing anything you don’t absolutely want to do. Your planed progression system through past actions sounds amazing

 

Maybe one day there will be a great mod reworking the bounty system and punishments. but that would probably be its own farmwork. Anyways good luck with your mod

[thor3222]

On 5/1/2025 at 2:47 AM, Vollkornstulle said:

I like the idea, but there are some issues that are really bad right now.

From what I see so far the DD options need some serious polishing.

The option for DD in the MCM  activates itself when the guard tries to equip items onto you. You can deactivate it but you still get the DD dialog and as soon as he says he equips something on you it is magically active in the MCM again.

Stripping option needs to be fixed: The guard strips clothing from you and that includes DD items. It only unequips half of them tho so the DD items are still lingering, meaning you don´t see them on the body and they don´t do anything but they are still equipped in the inventory. So it´s probably best to exclude the DD items from item strip (don´t know how that exactly works, I´m not a modder.).

3rd thing I want to point out is that there should probably be a grace period between force greets from the guards. I had it happen just now that the guard approached me like 10 times in 2 minutes, constantly threw devices from me on the ground and equipped others. Had like 40 lingering devices in the inventory and scattered uninteracteble accross the floor (you can´t pick up improperly removed DD items from the ground.)

 

So far I like the concept and I´m looking forward for future polishing. 

 

Thanks again for noticing these issues, I just pushed up a fix that should resolve all those issues. If you give it a shot, save and reload, and if you find anything else let me know!

[thor3222]

2 hours ago, aslab said:

Just because the vanilla bounty and jail system is horrendous doesn’t mean that the bounty system should be thrown out. If the PC has alternate ways to work off the bounty when the bounty is bellow 1000 then the game play becomes more enjoyable. When the bounty goes over 1000 then instead of jail the PC may be sent to public whore where the PC is in servitude until the debt is paid (that would need a link into public whore so the debt owed can be set per each case).

 

Oh totally agree. My plan is to use the bounties if you don't take an alternate punishment. Guards go to chase the player, and give up, they will throw a bounty on you. Or you skip a toll and they notice, they throw a bounty on you. Things where they can't confront and make you pay immediately. I pulled that just before the initial release cause it was over sensitive, but that will be back in once I get it working correctly. I had a like 1400g bounty and maxed out hostility after leaving bleak falls barrow because of it and i wanted to make sure players didn't get the same thing.

Some mods make good use of bounties and its ultimately how the player gets sent to jail, so i don't want to stop that from being possible, but I want it to be the backup, not the default.

[Gergar12]

Great mod!!!

[Whollupwhozit]

Been meaning to ask this since SL Survival, but requesting a separate level slider in addition to base cost for tolls; with the basic one eventually playing as high level character exiting a town cost as much as a high quality item.

[thor3222]

20 minutes ago, Whollupwhozit said:

Been meaning to ask this since SL Survival, but requesting a separate level slider in addition to base cost for tolls; with the basic one eventually playing as high level character exiting a town cost as much as a high quality item.

I see the value in that! I'll see what I can do

[Valixe]

Looking forward to more about this mod in the future
How much of the integration with other mods are done?

[McRutt]

This looks really interesting. I'm not going to add it just yet because my current playthrough is on thin ice as it is.

 

Recently I have wondered at the possibility of the mods here adding quite immersive experiences to Dwemer cities, relating to the still-functioning infrastructure, or even how Falmer society works.

This looks like it could be perfect for a lot of that.

 

Edit: Great work trying to integrate the mods you have. If it hasn't been plainly stated elsewhere: Would this conflict with things like naked defeat, sexy adventures, SLSF (Any of them), or Gristles' comment mods for that matter? 

 

And I don't want you to try to solve this problem at all, but if you aren't aware of Open Cities likely rendering this mod completely dysfunctional, brace yourself for people asking about that. 

Edited May 3, 2025 by McRutt
I'm stupid.

[thor3222]

2 hours ago, Valixe said:

Looking forward to more about this mod in the future
How much of the integration with other mods are done?

Some. Licenses much of the integration is done, but there will be additional punishments involving it. Devious devices is integrated but more coming, rapetats integrated more coming, mme/cum alchemy/skooma whore integrated more coming etc

 

 

1 hour ago, McRutt said:

This looks really interesting. I'm not going to add it just yet because my current playthrough is on thin ice as it is.

 

Recently I have wondered at the possibility of the mods here adding quite immersive experiences to Dwemer cities, relating to the still-functioning infrastructure, or even how Falmer society works.

This looks like it could be perfect for a lot of that.

 

Edit: Great work trying to integrate the mods you have. If it hasn't been plainly stated elsewhere: Would this conflict with things like naked defeat, sexy adventures, SLSF (Any of them), or Gristles' comment mods for that matter? 

 

And I don't want you to try to solve this problem at all, but if you aren't aware of Open Cities likely rendering this mod completely dysfunctional, brace yourself for people asking about that. 

I'll have to give a thought to that dwemer/falmer stuff. hadn't considered it but there could be potential there. It wouldn't be hard to use the tolls system to turn them into walled cities of sorts with tolls.

Shouldn't conflict with any of them, though a borderline case is sexy adventures with its crime laws, there will be overlap there in functionality, but we generally define different "crimes". I'd still probably turn off the crime laws (at LEAST the magic, weapons, and nudity crimes, as I have detection for those) in that mod if you plan to use LMAO, but the Sleep creep/gang rape features of it would have no conflict at all.

And yes, open cities will eventually be supported, but I need to get the single gate functionality working first, and that is lower on my list of things to do right now. Single gates will be good though because they will enable places like helgen and falkreath and even modded locations like bruma to have tolls enabled.

[DTESSurvivor]

Are you going to offer any adjustments for Thaneship?  After all, friends of the Jarl do get "special privileges".

[thor3222]

27 minutes ago, DTESSurvivor said:

Are you going to offer any adjustments for Thaneship?  After all, friends of the Jarl do get "special privileges".

Yes there is an MCM option for free toll passage for thanes.

At low guard hostility thanes will also be able to avoid punishment for most crimes as well. Though eventually if you keep committing crimes the guards will get sick of giving you a free pass and start punishing you.

[epitaph78]

The mod looks great so far and has a lot of potential.

 

Is the Nudity Detection via Advanced Nudity Detection ?

I had some problems that i was flaged as Nude when it shouldnt (but ill take a closer look iff it was a failure on my side)

 

What does the MCM setting "Equip Type" @ Punishments - Devious Devices do ?

Will you add a way to select/restrict wich DDs are used ? (like you could setup in the "DeviceList.json" in SL Survival)

 

[gdfll]

About the toll system,

can it be made that payment is for a time period, lets say you get a  fading tattoo (city symbol on exposed piece of skin), when caught in the town without a tattoo some kind of fine/punishment.
Owners of property in the town don't pay.

More ideas, wearers of tattoos pay more for everything in that town etc. like some tourists tax.

[thor3222]

5 hours ago, epitaph78 said:

The mod looks great so far and has a lot of potential.

 

Is the Nudity Detection via Advanced Nudity Detection ?

I had some problems that i was flaged as Nude when it shouldnt (but ill take a closer look iff it was a failure on my side)

 

What does the MCM setting "Equip Type" @ Punishments - Devious Devices do ?

Will you add a way to select/restrict wich DDs are used ? (like you could setup in the "DeviceList.json" in SL Survival)

 

nudity detection is not done via advanced nudity detection, but I’ll look into integrating that for people who have it. 
 

if it’s easy it will happen quickly. Are you on the latest update from yesterday? I changed it massively to be more forgiving as it was over sensitive. 
 

However I’ll also note there are some keywords it looks at to mark you as nude if you are wearing them (tends to be the ones labeled like lewd or topless)

 

device type is like rope v leather v metal v all. I’m working on getting the mcm more descriptive today.

 

there will be a way down the road to adjust your devices through an mcm and json file.  But that will be after more content is added

[thor3222]

3 hours ago, gdfll said:

About the toll system,

can it be made that payment is for a time period, lets say you get a  fading tattoo (city symbol on exposed piece of skin), when caught in the town without a tattoo some kind of fine/punishment.
Owners of property in the town don't pay.

More ideas, wearers of tattoos pay more for everything in that town etc. like some tourists tax.

It annoys me how clever I find that tattoo idea because it sounds like a pain in the ass to implement 🤪 that would be a good way to go.

 

I’ll keep it in the back of my mind. Time period payments sound very doable generally, so if I implement it I’d do it no tats first, then figure out the tat thing

 

home ownership will soon make it so you don’t have to pay, working on that implementation.

 

 

i probably wouldn’t do the tat increases costs generally in town though. If I did do cost changes like that it would be more likely to go through my respect/hostility system than any individual indicator but even then I’d be hesitant to do that. Inn prices will for sure be adjustable around kennel releases, but other costs I don’t think I want to fuss with

[gender65]

I play on LE and ported your mod, it works great in my game. I also really want the same punishments or payments to be applied to the follower. Thank you so much for this mod, we are waiting for new features, the mod is very promising!

Edited May 3, 2025 by gender65

[epitaph78]

2 hours ago, thor3222 said:

Are you on the latest update from yesterday?

Yes iam.

 

2 hours ago, thor3222 said:

However I’ll also note there are some keywords it looks at to mark you as nude if you are wearing them (tends to be the ones labeled like lewd or topless)

this was/is the case.

 

A.N.D implementaition at some point would be awsome.

Mabey you even consider a use for the divided nudity detection from A.N.D, like full nude is illegal but with a whore-license you can show your boobs.

[Vollkornstulle]

Hello again.

First I want to point out that the latest update works perfectly for me (I´m on 1.6.640 with an older Sexlab P+  where this version was still supported.)

Now I have another 3 things that you might want to look into.

1: The toll system does not work properly in Solitude for me. You can talk to the guards and get all the proper dialog, but you can just simply exit Solitude through the gate without paying the toll.

2: I think this is not how this is supposed to work, but correct me if I´m wrong: If you are outside during curfew you can not enter or exit the city gates. The option to pay does not pop up. So far so good. BUT: If you pay the guard you can simply exit the gates no matter if you are trying to pass the gate during curfew or during normal times.

The 3rd one is a bit of a sum of this mods toll system and a vanilla bug that is not fixed by USSEP:

Sometimes you get the doors in this state where they are open even if you haven´t opened them yet. Normally an interaction simply closes it and then you can interact with them normally again to open them and leave the city, but it seems that with the toll system active these bugged doors become completely uninteractable, meaning you can not leave at all.

Last one is definetely not a severe bug, as all cities have more than one exit, but it can become quite annoying.

 

So far good job and I will be watching this mods progress with great interest.

[thor3222]

2 hours ago, gender65 said:

I play on LE and ported your mod, it works great in my game. I also really want the same punishments or payments to be applied to the follower. Thank you so much for this mod, we are waiting for new features, the mod is very promising!

Oh awesome! I wasn't sure if it would work or not on LE! I'll try to think about how I can apply punishments to the follower, it will likely be later if I do that. You should be able to pay per follower, but when I was testing I realized it may not make perfect sense as implemented, just because if you set pay per level that extra follower cost is just as if its one level. I'll see if I can resolve that.

I do think followers getting the same consequences would be good, but I'd have to figure out how to do that in a way that makes sense, and build the modularity for it. So its a down the road kind of thing.

 

 

2 hours ago, epitaph78 said:

Yes iam.

 

this was/is the case.

 

A.N.D implementaition at some point would be awsome.

Mabey you even consider a use for the divided nudity detection from A.N.D, like full nude is illegal but with a whore-license you can show your boobs.

Testing advanced nudity detection update now, seems easy to implement for a baseline.

Logic flow: 

Wearing devious devices? nudity/inverted nudity crime ignored.
If AND installed
if male - invert nudity crime is ignored. Nudity crime checks for shown genitals, as well as ass if the player doesn't have a whore license.
if female - invert nudity requires breasts ass and genitals showing. nudity crime is triggered if the player is showing genitals, and showing breasts or ass if the player doesn't have a whore license (TAP or Licenses for the whore license)

if AND is not installed it does what it does now.

If it tests correctly that will be up today.  Cursory testing seems like its working, it will be up today once i get the mcm with some descriptions


 

 

59 minutes ago, Vollkornstulle said:

Hello again.

First I want to point out that the latest update works perfectly for me (I´m on 1.6.640 with an older Sexlab P+  where this version was still supported.)

Now I have another 3 things that you might want to look into.

1: The toll system does not work properly in Solitude for me. You can talk to the guards and get all the proper dialog, but you can just simply exit Solitude through the gate without paying the toll.

2: I think this is not how this is supposed to work, but correct me if I´m wrong: If you are outside during curfew you can not enter or exit the city gates. The option to pay does not pop up. So far so good. BUT: If you pay the guard you can simply exit the gates no matter if you are trying to pass the gate during curfew or during normal times.

The 3rd one is a bit of a sum of this mods toll system and a vanilla bug that is not fixed by USSEP:

Sometimes you get the doors in this state where they are open even if you haven´t opened them yet. Normally an interaction simply closes it and then you can interact with them normally again to open them and leave the city, but it seems that with the toll system active these bugged doors become completely uninteractable, meaning you can not leave at all.

Last one is definetely not a severe bug, as all cities have more than one exit, but it can become quite annoying.

 

So far good job and I will be watching this mods progress with great interest.

Excellent! I'm glad I was able to fix those first bugs you reported.

1. Do you happen to have any city change mods that might be effecting solitude?
2. Yes if you are outside curfew you should not be able to enter or exit. Though the guards shouldn't take payment to let you in. It may be a case I didn't write in in the logic. I'll test and figure out what is happening there and getting that resolved.
3. I'll see if I can replicate the behavior you are seeing with those bugged doors and get those resolved as well. Was this also in solitude? I could see that potentially happening with the bug #1 combo.

If the doors do become un-interactiable like that, it should be easy to fix with a console command, pull up the console, click on the gate, and type "BlockActivation(false)" - the door should allow passage like normal.

 

Edited May 3, 2025 by thor3222