Mesh Rigger (Skyrim, Fallout, Oblivion) Beta.89.f (10-26-2014)

[myuhinny]

@Samustus

 

There is no way to use a skeleton as a template unless it has only so many nodes in it too many of them have way too many nodes in them to be able to use them as a template. If you try to use them you are stuck with a screen with nothing but nodes and no way to hit ok to start mesh rigger. So you either need to find a skeleton that has either less nodes in it or try to remove node branches that you don't need and see if that works. Not sure if removing the node branches from a skeleton will work or not you will just have to do a trial and error sort of thing and see.

[Samustus]

Yeah, it seems I will have to edit my skeleton prior to using it in Mesh Rigger. The thing is, if I can reduce the amount of nodes to a sensible amount it, when it comes time to select my bones I won't have the 'off-screen' issue.

 

The problem lies with the skeleton itself. Do the nodes in the XPMSE skeleton have the exact same placement as the Bodyslide HDT CBBE body? Can I 'refer' to the HDT Body as a skeleton? Hmm.. maybe that will work. Odd thought, though lol. If there is even the slightest difference then the weighting gets screwed up and I get clipping.

 

EDIT: Ah wait, that won't work. See, I need to use a body with feet attached. The feet I have don't have poper weights. Gerra's procedure for adding feet requires a skeleton with feet bones. Then the whole thing is reweighted later. The problem is that the body ends up with a ton of extra bones.

 

GAH. So convoluted hehe.

[myuhinny]

@Samustus

 

You can also use multiple nifs instead place them all in a folder and when you run mesh rigger either hold down the shift button and click one thing to mass select or hold down CTRL and select the ones you need. I at times more nifs with different bones that I may need later. Many I add head hand feet body. If I find a body that has skirt nodes as well as already having the nodes needed in the body I will run it through mesh rigger and add them to a copy of my template body.

 

I myself have never seen the need to use a skeleton nif as I have just made new templates with the required nodes in them.

[Samustus]

 

I myself have never seen the need to use a skeleton nif as I have just made new templates with the required nodes in them.

 

I see what you mean. The problem is that the feet I need fixing don't have the right bones or weighting, so there is nothing to compare them to as a template.

 

Let me explain. I have included some samples I am using.

 

In the original mesh, the feet only use the calf bone and are weighted as such. Thus the feet are 'locked' in place. So when the player crouches, the whole foot bends forward instead of the foot staying in place and the ankle and legs bending forwards. To do this, the feet need foot bones and calf bones.

 

I have adjusted the bones manually and tried to weight them, but I have nothing to use as a template when running through mesh rigger. I tried using the HDT Body and the original HDT Feet from bodyslide as templates plus the same HDT Feet as the skeleton; but they are flat feet and the result chops off the toes. However, the bones and weighting are perfect!

 

The body I am using is HDT Body from BS/OS with XPSME Skeleton.

 

Note: I don't use Max or Blender, sadly, and have no clue how to use them. That's why this program was supposed to be a blessing lol.

Samples.7z

[myuhinny]

@Samustus

 

HDT high heels for some reason get destroyed in mesh rigger I think because the feet are below the red and green line. Any heels for skyrim that I have tried that were below those lines have ended up with the toes and part of the front of the foot stretched. I think it's because mesh rigger thinks it is working on normal feet that are above those lines. Not 100% sure on that though but that's my thoughts as to what might cause it.

 

Adding nodes manually to a skyrim nif unfortunately doesn't do anything but allow you to paste something into the nif. Because those nodes do not get attached to anything in the nif at all. If you click any piece in those high heels including the feet and go to the BSDismemberSkinInstance below the highlighted line in the left area and click the arrow for the drop down then the arrow next to bones you will see only calf nodes attached to any of them. 

 

Those high heels also have a major error in them if you look under the BSDismemberSkinInstance take a look at the Skeleton Root line it's named 0 (weightedfeet_1) this is incorrect this will cause a insta CTD either just by mousing over it in the inventory or if you try to wear it. It should be 0 (scene root). It seems changing the scene root name from weightedfeet_1 to Scene Root changes it in all of the BSDismemberSkinInstance's in the nif.

[Samustus]

@Samustus

 

HDT high heels for some reason get destroyed in mesh rigger I think because the feet are below the red and green line. Any heels for skyrim that I have tried that were below those lines have ended up with the toes and part of the front of the foot stretched. I think it's because mesh rigger thinks it is working on normal feet that are above those lines. Not 100% sure on that though but that's my thoughts as to what might cause it.

 

Adding nodes manually to a skyrim nif unfortunately doesn't do anything but allow you to paste something into the nif. Because those nodes do not get attached to anything in the nif at all. If you click any piece in those high heels including the feet and go to the BSDismemberSkinInstance below the highlighted line in the left area and click the arrow for the drop down then the arrow next to bones you will see only calf nodes attached to any of them. 

 

Those high heels also have a major error in them if you look under the BSDismemberSkinInstance take a look at the Skeleton Root line it's named 0 (weightedfeet_1) this is incorrect this will cause a insta CTD either just by mousing over it in the inventory or if you try to wear it. It should be 0 (scene root). It seems changing the scene root name from weightedfeet_1 to Scene Root changes it in all of the BSDismemberSkinInstance's in the nif.

 

I actually got this working by including the toes. So.. HDT Body and HDT Feet (flat) for templates, HDT Feet (flat) for skeleton, and Shoes w/feet for target. Selected bones Calf L&R, Foot L&R, Toes L&R and Scene Root(not sure if I should have included it). It changes the Scene Root name to 'weightedfeet_1' and it works, no idea why.

 

It all lines up and works now, HOWEVER, the toes cause a problem when I crouch (which is most likely why they weren't included in the original). The toes bend out of the shoes i.e. they keep their same alignment. I tried to delete the toe nodes with NifSkope but that caused a CTD (maybe from what you described). Perhaps I need to edit out the weighting in Outfit Studio, so they aren't affected at all.

 

Edit: Ah wait. It might be the bones, not the weighting (or plus the weighting)  that is causing the problem. I will need to find a way to remove the toe bones without screwing everything up.

 

Edit 2: Ok, removing the weighting in OS worked, but caused other problems. I just had an idea to run the file through mesh rigger again, because this time I have a proper template. I'll try that. Edit: Nope.. same toe missing problem again.

 

I need to find a way of removing the toes in NifSkope. *HUGE Sigh*

[myuhinny]

When you delete stuff out of a nif using nifskope what are you using? Are you using the right click item in right click and going to block - remove branch or are you using block - remove? If you are using the block - remove stop using it that is only for if you don't plan on saving because using block - remove causes dirty nif. Meaning using block - remove only removes the model and it leaves behind any and everything attached to that item. Are there any errors when removing a item? Sometimes deleting things from the left side seems to pop up errors and I find it better to delete from the right one instead.

 

I converted a pair of heels awhile back and then ran them through mesh rigger. There were more errors in the nif then what are there now. What I had to do was grab a copy of the converted ones and then replaced the bad pieces with the stretching with the pieces that were fine from the converted one. So I loaded the good one up right clicked a pieced went to block - copy branch then load then double clicked on the bad nif right clicked the bad piece went to block - remove branch then right clicked scene root in the left list and went to block - paste branch then save as to overwrite it.

 

 

 

 

For your nif you would have to either rename (weightedfeet_1) to Scene Root or rename Scene Root from the other nif to (weightedfeet_1) or you won't be able paste anything into it.

[Samustus]

 

I converted a pair of heels awhile back and then ran them through mesh rigger. There were more errors in the nif then what are there now. What I had to do was grab a copy of the converted ones and then replaced the bad pieces with the stretching with the pieces that were fine from the converted one. So I loaded the good one up right clicked a pieced went to block - copy branch then load then double clicked on the bad nif right clicked the bad piece went to block - remove branch then right clicked scene root in the left list and went to block - paste branch then save as to overwrite it.

 

 

Thanks for the tips, I appreciate your help

 

In this case however, I can't copy and paste sections, because the original shoes use different bones and weights. I assume your mesh rigged shoes, before and after, used the same bone structure? Also, I think the order of the bones list is important too because skin data references them?

[myuhinny]

@Samustus

 

The stretching might also be being caused by the heels actually having foot meshes in them not sure though. I just ran the gothic mistress boots through mesh rigger it has high heel system but no foot meshes in the boots and afterwards nothing stretched at all.

 

 

 

[Khasylu]

I'm having problems installing python and pyffi. I get an error when I install pyffi that says I have a version of python that doesn't have qikskope/niftoaster installed. I've tried three different versions of python, should I be installing something else as well?

 

I have tried to use both the light and portable versions, both are giving me the error that they are missing files and can't run the batch files.

[Khasylu]

I'm having problems installing python and pyffi. I get an error when I install pyffi that says I have a version of python that doesn't have qikskope/niftoaster installed. I've tried three different versions of python, should I be installing something else as well?

 

I have tried to use both the light and portable versions, both are giving me the error that they are missing files and can't run the batch files.

Still having this issue if anyone has any advice.

[myuhinny]

@Khasylu

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/24797-mesh-rigger-skyrim-fallout-oblivion-beta89f-10-26-2014/?p=1362373

[Khasylu]

So it turns out the terribly vague installation instructions are the issue. I wrote up a different set of instructions so hopefully no one else has this same problem with installation.

 

Mesh Rigger Download and Installation Instructions

 

1. Download and install Python version 2.6.6 ( https://www.python.org/download/releases/2.6.6/ ) Use whichever version your operating system is. (Example: Windows x86 MSI Installer for 32bit Windows, x86-64 for 64bit Windows. If you don't know what your operating system is, go to http://whatsmyos.com/ ).

 

2. Download and install Pyffi version 2.1.11 ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyffi/files/pyffi/2.1.11/ ) Click link PyFFI-2.1.11.cefd181.win32.exe to download correct version.

 

3. Go to Mesh Rigger website ( http://kgtools.org/ ), go to downloads, scroll to the bottom of the page and download Portable Version (32 bit).

 

4. Scroll up to the top of the page and download latest Portable Version Upgrade (32 bit).

 

5. Unzip both files. Open the upgrade folder, copy everything in that folder, open the non upgrade folder, paste and replace everything.

 

6. Run Mesh Rigger batch file to open and use program.

 

 

If Python won't run:

 

First, check if your computer can detect Python. Go to Start and type in the search bar “cmd” (no quotations) and hit enter. When cmd window opens, type python. If you get details about python (which version you are using, where the files are located, etc.) you are fine. If not you may need to allow Python to path.

 

1. Open My Computer, click System Properties, click Advanced system settings, click Environment Variables.

 

2. Scroll down in list until you find Path, click edit.

 

3. Click in Variable value and go all the way to the end of the line. Copy and paste this exactly: ;C:\Python26 (NOTE: If you installed Python on a different drive, you need to change C to that drive. Example: E instead of C ).

 

4. Click OK, OK, OK, and close My Computer.

[varenne]

It was assumed that those wanting to make use of these tools have at the very least graduated to big boy/girl pants, have some technical ability/acumen and can troubleshoot their own PC configurations when shit goes south.

 

gerra6's entire focus was on developing these tools, where none existed previously. I'm sure your added instructions are or will be appreciated by some, but I can almost guarantee some of the more technically challenged, plug & play (lazy) crowd will still fubar it. The bottom line is if individuals want to make use of this aspect of modding, be prepared to do some moderate to heavy lifting of your own.

 

I find some of the posts on gerra6's site for their tools quite appalling, considering this was all done for free and was the accumulation of I'm guessing 1000's of development hours. I just find the blatant lack of appreciation (not aimed at you) for the level of effort disturbing. But then I do have a deeper technical understanding of what went into developing these tools, so maybe it's just me...

[myuhinny]

Yeap when I got Gerra6's tools I had already did the big run around sticking my head here running over there then running back again then running in a circle till I got the shit I needed to actual get bender up and running then sat there scratching the head and once in awhile the ass and then Gerra6's tools came out and no more scratching. Yeah lots and lots of hours went into making these tools trouble shooting bug fixing updating and hoping the new update didn't break something else the need to love math as Gerra once said if you if you don't love math then you probably wouldn't like working on this. Not to mention they have many tools and other uploads to try to keep up to date. Like setbody reloaded for oblivion the seam mender pose converter mesh rigger clothing converter and many more.

[myuhinny]

I have a question. How do I keep a outfit that looks like this.

 

 

 

 

From looking like this when run through mesh rigger?

 

 

 

 

I could paste ones back in from the original template nif but then they wouldn't have any bounce or move when everything else does.

 

I ran it with head foot hand and body nif. Not sure if it's a missing node or a weight painting thing. I can throw it into outfit studio and everything is fine with no stretching but have no clue on how to paint those areas to fix the problem.

[Supierce]

I have a question. How do I keep a outfit that looks like this.

 

 

unmesh riggered.jpg

 

 

From looking like this when run through mesh rigger?

 

 

mesh riggered.jpg

 

 

I could paste ones back in from the original template nif but then they wouldn't have any bounce or move when everything else does.

 

I ran it with head foot hand and body nif. Not sure if it's a missing node or a weight painting thing. I can throw it into outfit studio and everything is fine with no stretching but have no clue on how to paint those areas to fix the problem.

Whenever I run into this it's always because I included bones the mesh didn't like for some reason. Head and neck are always a problem, but other bones can cause it too. I've never been able to figure out the exact cause.

 

All I can suggest is to exclude any bones you don't really need to add/update. If that doesn't work, try removing some of the essential ones until you hit the culprit. Then you'll at least know what you're dealing with.

[myuhinny]

Usually when I get that stretching it is caused by mesh rigger removing a node that it needed and since I'm porting fallout armors and outfits to skyrim using outfit studio clothing converter and mesh rigger to remove fallout stuff and replace it with skyrim stuff then manually redo texture paths. I have to use the head foot hand and body with most to prevent stretching.

 

I tried it 1 node at a time only time they didn't stretch was when those nodes were not selected but if I'm going to do that one I might as well run it again with all nodes selected and just paste in unmesh riggered copies of the bad ones and delete the bad ones out. Wonder it if it caused because they are bigger and farther away from the body then the other 2 before being mesh riggered all four tails have the same 2 nodes in each tail. Being bigger they pick up more nodes that are close to it. The top tail gets the 2 clavicle nodes which are up where the neck is.

[Lein]

I have been hopeful for Gerra6's return for some time, his tools have become so important to any conversions I do.  As we come up on one year, I can only hope that he still lurks here anonymously and offer a very heartfelt thank you for these little programs and the big chunk of your life you put into them.

[myuhinny]

I figured out part of the stretching thing. It isn't always caused by a node being removed it can also be caused by the copy and delete weight option. You can't turn them off as everything comes out correct but both skyrim and the creation kit will give you the middle finger if you try to load that mesh because no nodes get attached to it. Though I have just been testing and outfit studio can fix what mesh rigger did to cause the stretching by weight painting if the outfit is invisible in nifskope then it means not all vertices are painted and you will have to paint some more.

[myuhinny]

This is pictures before with the copy and delete weights turned on.

 

 

 

 

This is how it looks after throwing it into outfit studio and weight painting the bad spots. I still have to redo it a bit after seeing it in game there are a few nodes that need to be removed so that it doesn't look like shit like the tail bouncing the breast node.

 

 

 

 

I made sure to make a copy of the link saved it in a notebook file and then placed it with outfit studios folder so I won't lose it.

[A.J.]

Gerra, if you're still around, I'd need a clue if possible.

 

I'm using Mesh Rigger latest version, portable, but I can't obtain a viable result.

 

I need to ADD extra weights/bones to a batch of meshes, but it messes completely the whole weighting of the mesh.

 

As template, I'm using the new weighted body, I also added the new custom skeleton on the proper option on the menu.

The things I experimented till now are these:

- Search distance: 20-30-100

- Vertex Target: 1-3-6-100

- Override Distance ON / OFF

- Vertex Index Search ON / OFF

- Template Material: Skin / All

- Delete All Weights: ON / OFF

- Flatten Skinning: ON / OFF

- Replace Bones: ON / OFF

 

Also, concerning the extra weights: at first I only selected the extra bones I wanted to copy, but then at the end I also tried to select all bones (which I assume it should also overwrite the existing weights with the ones of my template).

 

The results, in all the above cases, are more or less the sames, the mesh weight is messed. The mesh, inspected on nifskope, seems ok, the new bones are added. The file size is more or less what's expected.

 

I can't say it's a bad template / mesh, because if I do the same exact operation using KG's bone weight copy script, only selecting the new bones, the result is perfect. Basically I'd like to do the same thing that I do on Blender on a single cloth, but on a full batch of clothes.

 

The only peculiar thing I could think about, on the starting mesh, is that the weighting of some bones is very soft (it's capped at 0.1). However, both in game and on Blender it works properly.

 

I include a picture that shows the comparison between one of my mesh rigger exports (on left) and using the bone weight script inside of blender only targeting the new bones - it also shows how the morphs are pretty much good when I use bodymorph on extreme values, it means that the starting weight and mesh aren't that bad. What I find very strange is the right arm, on the picture, it assumes a T position like if it wasn't rigged, however among my extra weights there's no weight involving the arms, they are legs / belly / breast. **** NOTE AT THE END

 

Doing this batch thing really would help me a lot for BodyMorph... am I missing something very obvious about mesh rigger and doing some big mistake during the process?

 

------

 

Another thing I've noticed, it's not much important because I found it only on a single mesh, but I still wanted to write it as feedback. After the export, there was some clipping of a cloth, on the breast zone, ON NIFSKOPE - which is pretty much absurd for me, why should it have changed the base mesh / vertex location?

 

EDIT: description of the pic included. Mesh rigger result on left, while the other 3 pics show the result when using KG's bone weight copy. The result in that case is pretty much perfect, the red arrows show the little imperfections when I morph the body of huge values, perfectly viable and understable in my opinion.

 

**** NOTE AT THE END - it's not a T position. It's more like if the bone is rotated from its original value. I'm confused. It's the kind of weird angle values I find when I try to port animations between games.

[myuhinny]

@A.J.

 

The tool scans UV maps so if there is a flaw in the UV maps or mesh it's going to get scanned by mesh rigger and those spots could come out weird mesh rigger also tries to adjust the spacing between a body and the outfit how it comes out all depends on the target body and template body. Clipping is normal as I see it many times and usually I just fix it in nifskope using the transition - scale vertices. Using bodies with different UV maps can cause it flaws in the body/outfit can cause it.

 

I have seen other weird oddities when using mesh rigger. Outfits that go in fine and come out looking like they were made from plastic and someone heated it up and it's now melted and down by their knees weird arms I think I found that the meatcaps were the culprit in that one outfit goes in nice and comes out looking someone just sneezed the outfit into a rag items in a mesh getting tired of the place they were placed at and decide to go for a vacation in a different area of the nif. Outfit goes in looking fine and comes out looking like it was made for gumby.

 

I would test by making a copy of your template body and outfit nif and delete the meatcaps out of the nifs right clicking them and using the block - remove branch - save as then try running them through it and see if that fixes the arm problem.

[junkacc]

I don't think RC91b works with FO3/NV. How many outfits do you need to get done?

[A.J.]

I'm using the latest on KGTools website, 0.89k

 

I tried without the meatcaps but nothing changed. I also tried without the UV option selected but I had the same results. I guess I'll have to give up. All I need is a batch script to accomplish this on a group of meshes, but maybe Mesh Rigger's not the solution

 

EDIT to junkacc: the whole vanilla. The problem is not much the number of meshes itself, I guess I could accomplish that in a couple of weeks. The problem is the weight can still be changed in the future, I can't re-do everything everytime I change it or I add new weights etc. it would be crazy. I'd need a batch solution just like Skyrim's Bodyslide