LAPF

[Guest ThatOne]

Happy to help. Sorry I didn't check here earlier and you had to wait so long for this simple edit.

 

Gregathit, if you want to make this a part of the basic package (as it has no extra dependencies), just let me know.

For everyone else, unless Gregathit will make it a part of the basic package, you'll have to PM me to get the file (I don't want stray versions of the Lovers with PK esp, in case someone modifies the base plugin and they become incompatible).

[gregathit]

What happens if I use non-AP compatible animations? Crash? Or just error messages?

 

Nope.  The animations will play just fine.  They won't look as cool as the AP animations but we made sure we kept things backwards compatible.

[gregathit]

Biggest problem with the NifSE approach is that it'll be very difficult (if not impossible) to have a single penis mesh that's compatible with all bodies.

 

Actually that is not so "IF" the penis is by itself (no lower body attached to it).  

Unfortunately that brings the tail \ ring \ amulet slot back into the picture and a whole slew of other problems.

 

Now if the penis remains attached to the lowerbody (as it currently is) then yes, nothing is solved by going the NifSE route.

[gregathit]

Happy to help. Sorry I didn't check here earlier and you had to wait so long for this simple edit.

 

Gregathit, if you want to make this a part of the basic package (as it has no extra dependencies), just let me know.

For everyone else, unless Gregathit will make it a part of the basic package, you'll have to PM me to get the file (I don't want stray versions of the Lovers with PK esp, in case someone modifies the base plugin and they become incompatible).

 

I'd be happy to take a look at the file and test it.  My concern is that it may affect males and\or affect folks that only use one body type.  Depending on what all it does, I'd need to write up a little readme for it and if there are negative impacts for the above two items, then offer it as an alternate download like the alternate bodies pack.

 

I'll shoot you a PM and we can go from there.

 

Cheers,

Greg

[gerra6]

 

Actually that is not so "IF" the penis is by itself (no lower body attached to it).  

Unfortunately that brings the tail \ ring \ amulet slot back into the picture and a whole slew of other problems.

 

Now if the penis remains attached to the lowerbody (as it currently is) then yes, nothing is solved by going the NifSE route.

 

 

Well, I haven't so much as looked at nisfe, so take this with a huge grain of salt.

 

However, if nifse gives access to the niftools library from an OBSE framework and allows the real-time in-game editing of active meshes (which it supposedly does), then it should be possible to copy a ninode from one nif into another.

 

In other words, copy a penis from one nif into another.  That means no mucking around with tail slots, etc.

[gregathit]

It would indeed be awesome if it was possible.  I'd have to see it to believe it however.  I just can't wrap my mind around how the dick mesh would be handled independent of the lowerbody.  I also can't see any way of removing the limp penis of that is normally part of the male nude body to swap out with the erect penis during sex.

[gerra6]

Think about how you would handle it in nifskope.  I'm a bit out of practice, but I'd probably copy a ninode tree from one nif to another.

 

Then imagine that you could do the same thing, in-engine using OBSE and nifse.

 

Now, I haven't experimented with nifse and I don't have much experience working directly with the niflib resources (which is what nifskope uses to manipulate nifs), but that *should* be within the capability of this sort of system.

 

I'm not arguing that we should do this, just saying that if we did, that's one way it could be done.  Me, I'm knee deep in Blender Python scripting for the forseeable future, so this isn't something that I'm likely to take on.

[Bladabli]

 

What happens if I use non-AP compatible animations? Crash? Or just error messages?

 

Nope.  The animations will play just fine.  They won't look as cool as the AP animations but we made sure we kept things backwards compatible.

 

 

Cool. Thanks for the help. Now to wait for the multiple-partner mod! (I hope it's coming...)

BTW, does Skyrim's sexlab have multiple-partner scenes, or is it just like Lovers?

[Dusk_]

 

Biggest problem with the NifSE approach is that it'll be very difficult (if not impossible) to have a single penis mesh that's compatible with all bodies.

 

Actually that is not so "IF" the penis is by itself (no lower body attached to it).  

Unfortunately that brings the tail \ ring \ amulet slot back into the picture and a whole slew of other problems.

 

Now if the penis remains attached to the lowerbody (as it currently is) then yes, nothing is solved by going the NifSE route.

 

 

Well, by compatible I meant that they won't align properly.  Every body type generally has a different x,y,z crotch position, which generally makes penis positioning different for every body.

 

(Wow, the things you can write on this board with a straight face).

[movomo]

It would indeed be awesome if it was possible.  I'd have to see it to believe it however.  I just can't wrap my mind around how the dick mesh would be handled independent of the lowerbody.  I also can't see any way of removing the limp penis of that is normally part of the male nude body to swap out with the erect penis during sex.

 

This is how DR or UV handles reverse-grip swords, or all the fatalities - decapiating, gutting, etc, and why they require nifse.

 

For the alignment issue.. well, I'm not certain. If they are too different between them then this would be more or less ugly as other solutions, while shifting the penis object is also possible. If not (- they are mostly ignorable), we can create a new universal penis mesh that rougly fits every crotch.

[gregathit]

Again, I may be way off base but DR swaps out parts in WHOLE.  If you attempt to cut someone in half and they have a full body armor on that covers both lowerbody and upperbody, then you can't cut them in half.  I know this as ALL my breakable armors are setup this way and it is IMPOSSIBLE to cut those wearing such an outfit in half.  DR (and UV for that matter) isn't capable splitting something that isn't already in pieces.

 

Same thing for cutting off heads.  If the helmet is part of the entire outfit in the mesh itself (and setup that way in the esm\esp) then you can't cut that head off.  NifSE isn't capable of reaching inside a mesh and erasing part of it, as far as I am aware.  At least if it is, then no one has used it to do so that I have ever seen.

 

Reverse grip on a sword is just taking the sword mesh and changing its position.  It was already as separate mesh to begin with.

 

Bottom line what I am saying is if the penis is to be switched out on the fly with NifSE, then you would need to go and change EVERY SINGLE male body mod to have the default limp penis NOT be part of the lower body, but rather have it be a separate mesh by itself and set in the amulet slot.  THEN you could swap it out on the fly with an erect one for sex.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

 

 

@Dusk:

As to the crotch being in a different position with each different male body......NOPE.  The penis is attached to the pelvis bone, so it doesn't make any difference if one race is taller or shorter than another, the penis is always going to be in the right spot because it auto-aligns to the pelvis.  The only thing that might be a pet peeve for a few, is the dick size would be the same for all races.  In other words the big Nord or Orc would have the same size pecker as the shorter Imperial.

[movomo]

You know. The dick and the crotch are already in pieces. Look at the lowerbody.nif in the _male folder! It has the lowerbody, and the limp penis separately.
We definitely don't want to mess with the amulet or tail slot. That's the reason why introducing nifse after all.
 
So, no other is needed. Let's say the attacker has the base male lowerbody.. say, the one in the "_male" folder.
The guy's dick is limp. Then we load two .nifs, one is the lowerbody.nif in the "_male" folder and the other is LAPF compatible male penis nif.
By loading and requesting a writable nif,

NifSE creates a copy of the indicated NIF file when you request a writable nif, and the nif you are actually editing is that nif. The original nif is not altered in any way. You can get the file path of the copy with NifGetPath.

we have a free-to-edit temporary nif file somewhere in the memory but not actually written in the hard disk. Then it's all done.. we can temporarily assign this new .nif file to the actor until the sex act is done.

 

summary: male lowerbody.nif is already in pieces. err.. at least Robert's is so.

[Dusk_]

 

@Dusk:

As to the crotch being in a different position with each different male body......NOPE.  The penis is attached to the pelvis bone, so it doesn't make any difference if one race is taller or shorter than another, the penis is always going to be in the right spot because it auto-aligns to the pelvis.  The only thing that might be a pet peeve for a few, is the dick size would be the same for all races.  In other words the big Nord or Orc would have the same size pecker as the shorter Imperial.

 

Ah, that's good to hear then.

[gerra6]

@Dusk:

As to the crotch being in a different position with each different male body......NOPE.  The penis is attached to the pelvis bone, so it doesn't make any difference if one race is taller or shorter than another, the penis is always going to be in the right spot because it auto-aligns to the pelvis.  The only thing that might be a pet peeve for a few, is the dick size would be the same for all races.  In other words the big Nord or Orc would have the same size pecker as the shorter Imperial.

 

Yes and no.

 

Pretty much all Oblivion male body mods are based off of the Roberts male body.  Roberts male bodies have a single generic crotch, so the junk can be freely swapped between the bodies.

 

*Unfortunately* there two variants to the actual crotch position, offset by (0.0, 0.098, 0.0) in Blender distance units.  I don't remember the nif distance conversion offhand.

 

Now, this isn't necessarily a problem.  If nifse gives us decent access to the nif tools library, then it should be possible to identify which mesh in the nif belongs to the junk and which to the lower body.

1. Compare bounding boxes for the two meshes inside the lowerbody nif (the ken doll style lower body mesh and the detachable junk).  If we don't have access to that information, we could try a comparison of the number of vertices (although that could be unreliable)

2. Check the location of the 'cornerstone' vertex.  In the case of Roberts male genitals and Slof's boners, I'd use the vertex with the lowest y-value.  In every variant I have seen, this is always the vertex that plugs into the lowest point of the Roberts male 'ken doll' crotch (if you look at a Roberts male body in blender, this is that weird maxi-pad looking thing behind the genitals).  This gives us the y-offset.  note: this is equivalent to the lower y-bound in the bounding box, so on second thought, if we have access to the bounding box data, just use that.

3. Calculate the offset from the lowest y value

4. Swap the meshes, translate the y-position of the replacement junk by the offset.

 

This is more of less off the top of my head (I checked some of my old Blend files from Setbody reloaded to get the offset).  And, as I've mentioned, I'm buried under my Blender scripting for the foreseeable future, so someone else would need to do the heavy lifting.

 

But that should do the trick for male bodies.

 

Now, female bodies are a bit different.  As long as we don't add balls, it's just a simple matter of using meshes that extend into the body cavity far enough to cover any variations.  Once you add balls, you kind of need to know the y-value of the crotch.  And that might take some work to code, and would probably take too many cycles to run between frames in Oblivion.

[movomo]

0.098 is 0.98 in Nifskope unit. The z axis offset of the Bip01 Head from the scene root is 112.441.

It's not very big. should be possible to handle it without scaling or shifting, like the female futa penis. 

 

Now, another big problem is, how to distinguish the penis object from the crotch? Probably bounding box radius, vertex count range, vertex groups, all should work. I'm having problem with finding the appropriate functions in the cs wiki though...

female is not problem. we don't care about "deleting" something in them. we can just copy the penis from the pre-made animated penis nif, and they can be recognized by the NiNode name. But we have to delete the limp penis in the male nif before paste something.

 

[movomo]

From what I gather, there are lots of things that are not accessable from NifSE. At the moment, I'm not sure what method I can (or have to) use to recognize which one is the penis and which one is the legs. I can't seem to access the NiTriShapdeData or NiSkinInstance block directly.

 

The only *seemingly* feasible way is using Extra Data block... for the moment. NifSE has a funcion that makes us see the contents of NiExtraData type block. As we know, NiTriShape or NiTriStrips blocks for equipments have a NiBinaryExtraData block. Maybe we can get its array and roughly estimate its vertex count from the array's size.

A hackjob, though. This will make RM as an essential requirement to get it working.

[gerra6]

Hmm.

 

I just took a peek at the nifse documentation. I don't have a ton of experience with niflib, so I can't tell at a glace if the provided function interface will give us access to the information that we would need to distinguish meshes.

 

Unfortunately, there is one piece of very bad news that I stumbled across.

 

In the release thread,

 

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1197808-relz-nifse-v11/

 

DragonWraith states that nifse will not function properly with rigged meshes. We'll need to do some experimentation to see exactly how this impacts our ideas, but I'm not feeling optimistic.

[Symon]

Not working with skinned (rigged) meshes doesn't surprise me.

I'd seriously look at what you can achieve with Blockhead.

[movomo]

Damnation! That's fantastic!

I was writing a kind of proof of concept plugin. Let's appreciate that it wasn't the actual plugin.

[smoking]

I'm having a problem with LAPF. When I want sex I start the photo appears. However, masturbate and lover prostitut work properly.

 

Anyone know why is this happening?

 

  

[gerra6]

 

I'm having a problem with LAPF. When I want sex I start the photo appears. However, masturbate and lover prostitut work properly.

 

Anyone know why is this happening?

 

 

 

Probably an interfering CM partners script or something similar

[smoking]

Hmmmm.... Use the toaster share & recruit. try to disable it and comment.

[Nepro]

How do I make females to use strapon instead of futa? Rename the meshes?

[smoking]

Well well, I finally found the incompatibility, it seems incredible but  the HUD status bars destroys LAPF.

[Nepro]

Explain how did HUD status bars destroyed your LAPF?  Ever since I started playing modded Oblivion I used HUD status. HUD bars has never interfered with anything I played.