Sexlab Submit 01SEP14 1133

[dkatryl]

The only other way i've seen it done, the player basically coulden't die, ever. SD did work around it a bit, as it could allow the player to die if an enemy kept attacking after bleedout was triggered (animals were not supported, so this was needed to prevent the player from getting eternally stunlocked in the bleedout anim).

 

Oh, and whilst i think about it, is it possible to make the player essential/protected whilst in ragdoll mode? Because aside from getting one-shotted by a warhammer, the only other way i've managed to die with Submit is when the player ragdolls (let's just say i've managed to slide of very tall cliffs or bridges to my death a few times, which looked rather hillarious, but it wasen't so ideal).

Yep, handling what happened against invalid targets was harder than valid targets.  Originally was going to make lethal damage 'cripple' the player, make it sort of like the hardcore escape thing, but then wasn't sure what to do to make you get 'un-crippled' (visit a temple shrine? drink a healing potion?  ) And then realized I was overthinking it, and I could just kill the player. Simple!

 

When you say ragdolling, do you mean at the end of sex, or after getting beatdown during the surrender part?  If the former, that's a Framework issue, and I don't even use ragdolling anymore due to the issues it has.  If the latter, then sure, I can move when the Global is normally reset back to 0 to later in the sequence, so that when the InBleedOut() event is triggered, the Global is still high to ensure validity of the target.  Of course, realize, if you fall a long distance and survive, then the bandits are potentially going to be going at you on the side of a mountain drop.

 

Fun fact: The 'ragdoll' effect after the beatdown (player's or NPC's) is required, because otherwise, for some reason there is often an animation glitch that makes the shins and feet get permanently bent at an odd angle so they are walking on their toes.  The 'ragdoll' seems to clear the glitch.

[dkatryl]

I was getting ready to upload, and then a thought just occurred to me: With the new 'Death Proof' auto surrender, having any kind of a threshold above 1% is pointless.  In fact, having ANY threshold is pointless.  The entire point of a threshold is to give you a safety buffer to allow a hit to drop you below that point but not kill you.  Well, if you don't actually die now, then there is no point to this buffer.

 

Which means, there is no point to the MCM threshold setting OR the surrender chance setting.  Instead, it just needs a binary toggle, auto surrender on or not.  When you get hit hard enough for the 'death proofing' to kick in, you drop to a bleedout anyway, which makes more sense then automatically doing the hands raised.  If you want to decide to manually surrender before 0%, that's fine, but then you would just sheathe your weapon and surrender, hands raised.

 

So, I am going to remove the MCM threshold and chance setting, replace them with a simple on/off toggle for the auto surrender, and it will now kick in if you hit 0 life, pure and simple.  This has a side benefit of freeing up what is likely a VERY script intensive routine for slower machines, as it currently has to do the OnHit() event check for EVERY hit on the player, which if you factor in channeled spells and such, can be very taxing on older machines.

 

Since I will having a net reduction of 1 MCM option on the page, I will use that space to offer a "non-auto rape" option for the Ambush.  As a comment was made earlier, it is kind of silly for a female to be sneaking through a camp full of male bandits and raping them, so instead the ambush can be used as a non-lethal take down to simply rob them and whatnot without automatically having the s3xx0rz.

 

I will also take this opportunity to reorganize the MCM layout a bit, since the options are currently kind of just thrown in randomly as I added them.

 

Probably have something like "General", "Player as Victor", and "Player as Victim" sections.

[volfin]

I've been using the 01JAN14 version and there's still times I surrender and still die. Usually because of a applied effect (frost or fire) dropping the health down further even after the attacker stops attacking.  I guess this would be a "Player vs. Wizard" scenario.

 

So I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of a non-configurable threshold of 1%. there still needs to be a large buffer.  If you have something that's supposed to be resetting health back to full, it doesn't seem to be kicking in fast enough.

 

 

[dkatryl]

I've been using the 01JAN14 version and there's still times I surrender and still die. Usually because of a applied effect (frost or fire) dropping the health down further even after the attacker stops attacking.  I guess this would be a "Player vs. Wizard" scenario.

 

So I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of a non-configurable threshold of 1%. there still needs to be a large buffer.  If you have something that's supposed to be resetting health back to full, it doesn't seem to be kicking in fast enough.

I think you missed the part where I haven't updated yet.

• Death-Proof Auto Surrender
• Imperial vs Stormcloak Bounty
• MCM Reorganization

Those are the things for the next update later today when I finish the last one.

[dkatryl]

Most Recent Changes
02JAN14 1610

• Added - 'Death Proof' Auto Surrender.  The auto surrender now works by triggering only once the player reaches 0 health.  They will go into a bleedout scene, and if they were fighting valid targets, they will surrender as always.  If they are not fighting valid targets, they will get a message stating they suffered lethal damage and then die.
• Removed - The MCM option to set the Auto Surrender threshold and the Auto Surrender chance once below the threshold.  Both options were made irrelevant with the previous addition.
• Added - Imperial/Stormcloaks can now be taken as bounties to be turned into their opposite factions.  If the player mistakenly tries to turn in either to their same faction, they will be immediately attacked.  Give how many various factions there are in the game, and the bounty system is just a side feature, I only use the "CrimeFactionImperial" and "CrimeFactionSons" to determine which is which.  Anything else will be considered a generic bounty turn in and given to a normal guard.  Imperial/Stormcloaks can not be turned into generic guards.
• Added - MCM option to disable automatic sex immediately after a successful Ambush.  Sex can still be initiated with victim via dialog options.
• Updated - Complete MCM option reorganization into 'General Options', 'Player As Victor Options', and 'Player As Victim Options'.

For those that had the previous Auto Surrender options turned on, expect to see a message telling you that "Auto Surrender Has Been Disabled!" when you first load your game. This is because the new option is turned off by default, and I also need to remove the old spell effect to make sure the updated one is applied. So just load your game, after you see the message, just go into the MCM, toggle it on, you should see another message saying that it is now enabled, and they go find yourself a bandit or 2 and give it a whirl.

 

I tested the Death-Proofing over and over and over and over and over, literally just getting dropped to 0 from my quick save at ~10%, seeing it work, reloading, watching again. And again. And again.

 

Out of all of those times, I only saw it NOT work once (and then tell me lethal wounds, and died) but that was just a fluke of the papyrus not properly selecting the targets fighting me. Eh, shit happens. If you experience it not working for you and it doesn't trigger properly and you just die each and every time, coming on here and telling me that it didn't work without providing a papyrus log doesn't tell me jack all.  As such, the comment will likely be ignored, because all I will say is that it did in my testing.

 

However, if you provide a log to support your issue, I will gladly look at it to see what may have happened.

 

Edit:

 

Also, given the nature of the revised Auto Surrender working only on a OnBleedOut() event instead of the old (very script runtime intensive) method of doing OnHit() checks with every hit, this will likely conflict with other mods that do similar, such as SD, No Death Mod, and others.  I don't use any of them, and I won't let their existence hamstring development of my own mod.  If you prefer to let those mods take over instead, I recommend turning off the Auto Surrender in Submit and only using the manual surrender.

 

[Ashra XIII]

Wow that the death-proofing is absolute genius and honestly completely obliterates the one annoyance I had with this mod, which is it kicking in just because I took a big hit and got a little low on health, but wasn't really worried about losing.

 

Now if I submit it's because I well and truly lost. Thank you so much for figuring this out and putting it in your mod, dkatryl!

[Ashra XIII]

Oh okay, I'll hold off on updating then.

[dkatryl]

Okay, properly updated now.  I just deleted the 02JAN14 1531 update entirely, and updated the patch notes to reflect the current 02JAN14 1610 version.

 

If anyone managed to snag the 1531 version before I edited the page, well, kudos to you for being Mr Johnny-On-The-Spot, but I would recommend just tossing that one out and grabbing the 1610 version, or else one of the new MCM options will do nothing.

[judge0]

Don't take this wrong, but you are one prolific coder!

 

You update your mod more than anyone I've ever seen.

 

Thanks for the hard work, and one quick question . . .

 

This new "Death-Proof" auto-surrender - will it still allow enslavement by Sanguines Debauchery?

[Ashra XIII]

I get the feeling that they are going to conflict, unless the mods are aware of one another.

[dkatryl]

This new "Death-Proof" auto-surrender - will it still allow enslavement by Sanguines Debauchery?

I don't use SD, so I can't say with any certainty, but I suspect that if it uses a OnBleedOut() event as well, then it is quite possible you may have some interesting effects happening as both mods try to take over.

 

Unfortunately, while I am trying to make Submit as sound as I can, and this change was much needed to remove the biggest problems with the auto surrender scenarios ("Big hits + small threshold = dead" and/or "high threshold = surrender far too often in normal combat"), that could potentially come at the cost of "similar event conflicts".

 

All I can say is you have a different "Death Alternative" mod you prefer to take over, disable the auto surrender and only leave the manual surrender.

[dkatryl]

I get the feeling that they are going to conflict, unless the mods are aware of one another.

I would expect as much.

 

For the moment, I'm just going to let it ride the way it is, make sure everything is working for other people.

 

Provided it doesn't make everyone's Skyrim uninstall itself or something catastrophic and the new update proves to be stable, if I do anything about SD, I will probably take a page out of the Arousal indirect support, and do an installed mod check for SD, and make an MCM option to have SD take over at 0%.  Not a guarantee, but it is something I'm considering.

 

That said, I'll go ahead and just head off any suggestions/requests on the subject: No, I don't plan on doing the same for Defeat.  Not because I hate that Goubo guy or anything, but I just don't see enough of a different between Defeat and Submit in this regard.

 

Last I checked, Defeat's 'player surrender' scenario was basically you drop down, get raped, and then the bandits would still try to kill you.  Unless that has changed remarkably since I last looked several months back, that doesn't sound significantly different enough from Submit to have my mod build in a way to give preference to that over Submit.  Just turn auto surrender off and use Defeat's.

 

SD, on the other hand, from what little I know of it, is entirely built around after you reach zero, and the gameplay is completely changed after that point.  I dabble in it a bit with the binding and escaping, but that is the core feature of SD, so I can appreciate people preferring that.

 

But then, I'm not sure exactly what purpose it would serve to do all this that would functionally be any different than simply turning off Submit's auto-surrender and just using SD's, other than as a redundant method to prevent death?

 

So, like I said, not guaranteed I'll do this, but I am considering it.

[volfin]

 

I've been using the 01JAN14 version and there's still times I surrender and still die. Usually because of a applied effect (frost or fire) dropping the health down further even after the attacker stops attacking.  I guess this would be a "Player vs. Wizard" scenario.

 

So I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of a non-configurable threshold of 1%. there still needs to be a large buffer.  If you have something that's supposed to be resetting health back to full, it doesn't seem to be kicking in fast enough.

I think you missed the part where I haven't updated yet.

• Death-Proof Auto Surrender
• Imperial vs Stormcloak Bounty
• MCM Reorganization

Those are the things for the next update later today when I finish the last one.

 

 

Ok, sorry I guess I thought it was already in there.   Looking forward to the addition of this feature then.

 

[dkatryl]

Ok, sorry I guess I thought it was already in there.   Looking forward to the addition of this feature then.

Then I invite you to visit the download page!

[Ashra XIII]

I think the best-case scenario of Submit + SD would be that Submit kicks in at 0% (the way it does with this new update), proceeds with the rapings, then hands the reins over to SD for the enslavement part. 

 

Might be a bit of a pipedream, I dunno.

[Pinute]

 

I get the feeling that they are going to conflict, unless the mods are aware of one another.

I would expect as much.

 

For the moment, I'm just going to let it ride the way it is, make sure everything is working for other people.

 

Provided it doesn't make everyone's Skyrim uninstall itself or something catastrophic and the new update proves to be stable, if I do anything about SD, I will probably take a page out of the Arousal indirect support, and do an installed mod check for SD, and make an MCM option to have SD take over at 0%.  Not a guarantee, but it is something I'm considering.

 

That said, I'll go ahead and just head off any suggestions/requests on the subject: No, I don't plan on doing the same for Defeat.  Not because I hate that Goubo guy or anything, but I just don't see enough of a different between Defeat and Submit in this regard.

 

Last I checked, Defeat's 'player surrender' scenario was basically you drop down, get raped, and then the bandits would still try to kill you.  Unless that has changed remarkably since I last looked several months back, that doesn't sound significantly different enough from Submit to have my mod build in a way to give preference to that over Submit.  Just turn auto surrender off and use Defeat's.

 

SD, on the other hand, from what little I know of it, is entirely built around after you reach zero, and the gameplay is completely changed after that point.  I dabble in it a bit with the binding and escaping, but that is the core feature of SD, so I can appreciate people preferring that.

 

But then, I'm not sure exactly what purpose it would serve to do all this that would functionally be any different than simply turning off Submit's auto-surrender and just using SD's, other than as a redundant method to prevent death?

 

So, like I said, not guaranteed I'll do this, but I am considering it.

 

 

There's something you might want to take a look at while you're mulling over if and how you'd offer support for SD.  jbezorg wrote a module called actor events http://www.loverslab.com/topic/19662-actor-events-framework/ that, as I fuzzily understand it, allows setting a percentage chance over whether your victor enslaves (SD) or just rips you off (Submit) when you hit that 1% mark. 

[judge0]

I think the best-case scenario of Submit + SD would be that Submit kicks in at 0% (the way it does with this new update), proceeds with the rapings, then hands the reins over to SD for the enslavement part. 

 

Might be a bit of a pipedream, I dunno.

 

I second that emotion . . .

 

Might as well get ready for SD2!!!

 

In the mean time I will just disable SD, this mod plays very interesting as it is (mini enslavement/escape).

[boo]

Can you add an option to remove the message box when you die?

[dkatryl]

There's something you might want to take a look at while you're mulling over if and how you'd offer support for SD.  jbezorg wrote a module called actor events http://www.loverslab.com/topic/19662-actor-events-framework/ that, as I fuzzily understand it, allows setting a percentage chance over whether your victor enslaves (SD) or just rips you off (Submit) when you hit that 1% mark. 

I saw that a while back, and your fuzzy understanding is about on level with mine.  But I've been hesitant to really look into it too much, because it seems like it would involve a hard dependency on something besides the SL Framework, which I want to avoid.

 

If I can do it as a soft dependency so that people that want to use both mods simultaneously can just grab it, and those that don't won't have to bother with it, then sure, it might have merit.  But I don't want people that don't even use SD to have to get another mod that has no direct bearing on Submit to avoid errors and crap.

[dkatryl]

Can you add an option to remove the message box when you die?

I have no plans to add an MCM option for that specifically, because I can just imagine people then wanting the same thing done for [insert random message they don't like].

 

That said, upon looking just now, I just realized that I left out the overall DebugActive check for the prompt, which was unintentional.  I'll add that for whenever the next update happens.

 

Or I may just fully remove it.  Either or.  Haven't decided.

[dkatryl]

I think the best-case scenario of Submit + SD would be that Submit kicks in at 0% (the way it does with this new update), proceeds with the rapings, then hands the reins over to SD for the enslavement part. 

 

Might be a bit of a pipedream, I dunno.

That would probably be in the pipedream realm, I am afraid.

 

Among other issues, the chief problem that I don't know to resolve to even make it work like that is how to suppress SD from activating at the same time.  If both trigger on the same event, without SD's code being changed, there is no way for it to know to NOT do its thing until after Submit finishes and then passes it off to SD.

 

Perhaps the Framework thingy mentioned a few posts up (This is just conceptual talk, as I have no idea how it actually works, and honestly I'm not particularly eager to have to go learn something new to support something I don't even personally use), but again, only if it can be with a soft dependency so that it is not *required* by people that don't even use SD.

[Ashra XIII]

Just be careful with that Actor Events thing. Every time I've tried installing it (as it's required for Estrus Chaurus), it spams the crap outta my Papyrus log with constant events and my games get WAY crashier.

[dkatryl]

Just be careful with that Actor Events thing. Every time I've tried installing it (as it's required for Estrus Chaurus), it spams the crap outta my Papyrus log with constant events and my games get WAY crashier.

It's one of the many reasons why I am probably not going to do much of anything with it.  And really, the easiest thing to do is just turn off auto surrender in Submit if you want SD to take over and manually surrender in Submit if you want to use that for a change up.

 

For those that don't use SD (or any other death alternative mod), just turn on auto surrender in Submit.

 

It keeps it simple for myself and everyone.

[MonaBabii]

Aw DK... I've always been a fan of how you go about making and updating your mod, and despite what you usually say, you're an amazing modder. Thus I love SL Submit

But it's sad to see the Auto-surrender sliders gone D: The new additions to those were the best thing ever. No longer I'm fully aware if and when my character's gonna get raped. I have the Auto-surrender minimum health at 90% and then the chance slider at 1%, which sounds very low but you'd be surprised how easily enemies can trigger it lol.

On the other hand, I have SD set at a very low health value much like it would be to have this current version of Submit on, and to me personally the difference between the 2 mods lies in what happens after the rapeage. It's like... if you fought long enough to see Submit trigger, you did bad in that fight... if you fought long enough to be enslaved by SD, then shoot you deserve to be chained and dragged around I use them both as some sort of pseudo-difficulty level system of sorts lol. On that same note, it's not all that fun to get enslaved every single time you are losing a fight with SD

 

Anyway. I understand what you said about making your mod as sound as you possibly can, and fair enough you should first think about your mod before the rest, so the best I can say is still Best of luck with it It's an amazing mod, and I'll probably give it a try at some point, perhaps when/if that SD implementation is in place, or maybe by the time the new SD2 will have been released, who knows

 

Thanks for all the work and fun added to the game!

[Ashra XIII]

I was setting my health threshold at 30% with a 1% chance of surrender, but the way it was scaling made it super-easy for my character to just give up even though I felt like I would have pulled off a victory otherwise.

 

This new method makes damn sure that, if my character is giving up, it's because she was beaten, and i appreciate that distinction. It will mean I'll have to turn off the auto-surrender completely for SD when skyrimll releases his next update and I try it out, but I still have Defeat running for those 'mid-fight' rapes, for as long as it remains compatible (as it doesn't appear to be getting any updates).