The End for UNP blessed body UNPB

[ElectricSheep]

Sorry, I don't think your point is valid. Killing humans for the sake of entertaining the player is not something that is automatically given, it's an active and intentional choice from the games' developers. Killing in games is fun and not something that is there because there is no other way. It doesn't just happen on the way.

Games didn't happen yesterday and humans are getting killed in games since it was as simple as whacking faceless and voiceless 1 pixel dots hardly thought provoking in moral terms. Present games are just expanded and upgraded continuations of old and proven formulas, it's not even that much of a choice on the game developers side as they're making what is commonly considered a game and what there is a demand for (nobody would like to play COD in which you don't kill). On the other hand, there are obvious technical limitations and the inability to create realistic simulation in which every killing would have an impact.

 

The problem with games with pedophiliac content is that there are no victims. Raping a kid in a video game is nothing that actually harms anyone. It's why the senseless murder in games like GTA for example, is nothing that can be considered wrong.

Is there a need for victims for something to be morally wrong? I don't think this is as simple as "if killing in a game is okay then everythng is okay" because there are also shades of gray and much more complex issues that you cannot boil down to simple "zero-one". That being said, I think there's a vast psychological difference between killing even 1000 virtual bandits while drinking Mountain Dew and masturbating next to your virtual avatar raping a kid.

 

You can't say murder and killing is okay because it's just gameplay and on the other hand that sexism against women is not.

As I said, a computer/video game has its own unique characteristics, it's not a movie or a book, and I do believe that you cannot easily compare it's simplified and sometimes purely abstract layer (collecting fruits in platform games or finding a pork chop inside a wall in "Castlevania") with its meritoric side.

 

a body that isn't fetishized

 

 

Your body is just as fetishised and contrived as any other body available for Skyrim. Your own foolish belief that it looks realistic doesn't make it so.

 

The weight slider it has is just "how much hips, ass, and tits do you want?" just like every other body mod in existence, but with demonstrably less overall variation. There's no realism there at all - every single woman in Skyrim is a perfect Amazon with CNHF! (...) How is your perfect Amazon not fetishized? And how are you a Betrayer of Boners when the core of your body mod is distributing sexy naked woman - the same as every other body mod ever?

 

This.

 

[Wast1980]

Oh my. 

 

So much hate, distortions, and lies. 

 

As I said, I respect the work that other modders put into UNPB and they (Mr. Troublemaker, xp32, all the armor converters and makers) are free to continue UNPB. I simply do not wish to participate or promote it anymore and have therefore taken down MY mod page which I'm sure is being transferred to Mr. Troublemakers pages as we speak, or already has been. 

 

And btw, I made 2 comments on one mod because a flame war had erupted but nothing constructive was being said...then I suggested that since rape is not allowed on the nexus, a tentacle rape mod depicting rape is out of bounds and should be reported. I've become a brainwashed monster, clearly.

 

As to the blog name change...lol.

You are the right one talking about hate.

Your whole CNHF community is full of hate and fanatism.

Sending out your lapdogs to do what you think is right....

[zz2tommy]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the whole issue with that initial debacle was that certain individuals thought a mere disclaimer that they were just making pure "observations" made it okay for them to be condescending and ill-mannered with their supposed criticisms. If they were more tactful and less spiteful or immature in their responses, I don't think any of the ensuing issues would've dragged to to where they are now. 

 

Don't even get me started on the instigator who was hiding behind the humor of their numerous gif's and images.

[GrimReaper]

 

Games didn't happen yesterday and humans are getting killed in games since it was as simple as whacking faceless and voiceless 1 pixel dots hardly thought provoking in moral terms. Present games are just expanded and upgraded continuations of old and proven formulas, it's not even that much of a choice on the game developers side as they're making what is commonly considered a game and what there is a demand for (nobody would like to play COD in which you don't kill). On the other hand, there are obvious technical limitations and the inability to create realistic simulation in which every killing would have an impact.

 

 

 

First, that is a naturalistic fallacy. Second, there have always been games that don't feature violence or killing, Pong and Tetris for example. A game like Call of Duty is built around killing, taking away the killing in CoD leaves you with nothing else to do. Violence is not something that is needed for gameplay. It's always a choice. Violence is not needed.

 

 

Is there a need for victims for something to be morally wrong? I don't think this is as simple as "if killing in a game is okay then everythng is okay" because there are also shades of gray and much more complex issues that you cannot boil down to simple "zero-one". That being said, I think there's a vast psychological difference between killing even 1000 virtual bandits while drinking Mountain Dew and masturbating next to your virtual avatar raping a kid.

 

 

In my book, yes. It's only wrong if someone is getting hurt in one way or the other.

 

What about masturbating to the killing of 1000s of virtual humans?

[lordofthedread]

 

 

I still find astonishing that nobody is shocked by mods like Deadly Mutilation but as soon as we touch to the women image or sex its up for debate. (...) Again I find a lot

more disturbing that porn is quite widely accepted but porn in games is usually evil, no matter how much personality you think a follower has it is not a freakin person.

"Nudity/sex vs violence" in games has been discussed to death and has nothing to do with the OP. Yes, we all know it's ridiculous.

 

 

I dont see where the pedophilia is coming along here, I doubt that you added that to the subject to be contructive but more to create a debate that again has nothing to do with the OP and the discussion that followed.

It has to do with the discussion that followed and that you apparently were not kind enough to read, despite the last few posts.

 

I used 'pedhophilia' as a plain example of why I disagree with GrimReaper that games can't be the target of moral actions.

 

 

Just so you know, there are perfect examples of unatural bodies in real life with very famous girls like Pamela Anderson or even this one I just discovered

What does it have to do with anything that I've said?

 

 

 

But I said if they are taking that negativity into a computer game then little kids...... Is better then nothing.

So for that sake this forum should support such themes in mods? Couldn't disagree more and AFAIK it doesn't.

 

 

 

--------------------

And again, just to make things clear, I'm neither a feminist, neither a feminism enthusiast - quite opposite actually.

 

 

You just used pedophilia to shock people and making an argument on a website that does not support it like you said, I personally find UNP petite way worse than CBBE / UNP and all others, I personally despite loli in any form but I am clever enough not to comment / troll / give an opinion that nobody wants to see on these.

 

The video I linked as everything to do with this thread since it shows that it is not only in video games where women are portrayed like that, theres even real girls portraying themselves as sex toys / sex symbol / dolls, theres even girls that enjoy bondage, rape scenarios and all other topics you could find, does that make them less of a woman?

 

The whole point of attacking video games for things that are just reproduced from real life / other mediums is just biased and it would be good to admit once and for all that what is happening to a PC / NPC in a video game is not really happening and nobody gets hurts at the end of the game session.

 

The best part in all that is that you freakin do have the choice to have that in your game or not, nobody force you to use any of the mods available.

[ElectricSheep]

It's always a choice. Violence is not needed.

Both violence and sex are part of our world as well as part of human nature and we do need them. Not to mention that you can't ban sex/nudity from games due to reasons of purely factual nature alone (read: it's impossible as long as there is a demand). It's not even a choice but necessity.

 

What about masturbating to the killing of 1000s of virtual humans?

One can masturbate to anything, from Hitler's speeches to dead animals. But killing in games has no sexual context, it's just a form of virtual entertainment that is not meant to be taken as a form of approval for similar actions in the real world. Tolerating pedhophilia themed games would mean that we approve for this deviation to exist behind a certain, virtual border (as long as pedhophiles spunk in front of virtual kids they're our forum pals!) while the deviation itself - a pedhophile himself - is dangerous and should be treated.

 

You just used pedophilia to shock people and...

Here we go again... So far only you seem to be shocked. What's your problem?

 

I personally find UNP petite way worse than CBBE / UNP and all others, I personally despite loli in any form but I am clever enough not to comment / troll / give an opinion that nobody wants to see on these.

Oh I see, you're upset about my opinion.

 

The video I linked as everything to do with this thread since it shows that it is not only in video games where women are portrayed like that, theres even real girls portraying themselves as sex toys / sex symbol / dolls, theres even girls that enjoy bondage, rape scenarios and all other topics you could find, does that make them less of a woman?

Yes, there are real women who look fake as transparent silicon shit and women who enjoy bondage sex and dominance. Again, what does it have to do with anything that I've said, what's your moral? You say that those extreme examples should serve as common archetypes of women in games?

[Skjall]

Apart from sex, violence and all 5 pages of various statements and opinions, I think that scripting, animation positioning and other relevant tech knowledge behind estrus beats simple UNP "boobification" (and more recent "de-boobification") by at least 10 miles.  

Thus making it far inferior to any heavy scripted mod. Just my dime. Have fun everyone

[Absurdity]

Apart from sex, violence and all 5 pages of various statements and opinions, I think that scripting, animation positioning and other relevant tech knowledge behind estrus beats simple UNP "boobification" (and more recent "de-boobification") by at least 10 miles.  

Thus making it far inferior to any heavy scripted mod. Just my dime. Have fun everyone

 

This isn't really about "my mod needs more epic skillz than yours" aka "my e-penis is bigger than yours", just sayin'...

 

[ElectricSheep]

Though I wrote hundreds of scripts in C++ for NWN, I never actually tried scripting for TES so I seriously can't tell, but simple "boobification" may not be as simple as you think it is (of course unless you shape boobs as a pair of balls, which most modders do). Personally I find breast to be one the most difficult female body part to sculpt.

[lordofthedread]

 

It's always a choice. Violence is not needed.

Both violence and sex are part of our world as well as part of human nature and we do need them. Not to mention that you can't ban sex/nudity from games due to reasons of purely factual nature alone (read: it's impossible as long as there is a demand). It's not even a choice but necessity.

 

What about masturbating to the killing of 1000s of virtual humans?

One can masturbate to anything, from Hitler's speeches to dead animals. But killing in games has no sexual context, it's just a form of virtual entertainment that is not meant to be taken as a form of approval for similar actions in the real world. Tolerating pedhophilia themed games would mean that we approve for this deviation to exist behind a certain, virtual border (as long as pedhophiles spunk in front of virtual kids they're our forum pals!) while the deviation itself - a pedhophile himself - is dangerous and should be treated.

 

You just used pedophilia to shock people and...

Here we go again... So far only you seem to be shocked. What's your problem?

 

I personally find UNP petite way worse than CBBE / UNP and all others, I personally despite loli in any form but I am clever enough not to comment / troll / give an opinion that nobody wants to see on these.

Oh I see, you're upset about my opinion.

 

The video I linked as everything to do with this thread since it shows that it is not only in video games where women are portrayed like that, theres even real girls portraying themselves as sex toys / sex symbol / dolls, theres even girls that enjoy bondage, rape scenarios and all other topics you could find, does that make them less of a woman?

Yes, there are real women who look fake as transparent silicon shit and women who enjoy bondage sex and dominance. Again, what does it have to do with anything that I've said, what's your moral? You say that those extreme examples should serve as common archetypes of women in games?

 

 

I am not upset about your opinion, i am upset about your trolling, if you think that these bodies are so unatural and so harmful to women you should have started by making one.

 

I dont think any of the bodies available for Skyrim are in any case an archetype of women in video games, you should even rejoice that for once you are given a choice and not one single archetype (remember Bloodrayne, Tomb Raider and so on?), here what I personally consider to be the most beautiful body made for Skyrim (and the most realistic) http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/7841//?, it has no support for armors and was not even widely  endorsed, yet I dont complain on CBBE / UNP / UNPB.

 

I am a pretty high moral character in real life, I never killed, raped or anything of the sort, I never even thought of these kind of things, (well not true I might have wanted to kill others when I was pissed off like any other human being, but that never got passed the thought stage). In a fantasy game you dont have any right to dictate what I should or shouldnt do, the fact is the women archetype in video games is the same as the women archetype everywhere else, if you look at what most guys consider sexy it is usually a big pair of boobs, thats sad I know but that is the way it is and ranting about UNPB or any mod in Skyrim wont change it.

 

Users of Estrus, rape mods, loli mods and so on are only a small cast of the gaming population like people practicing BDSM in real life are a small part of the populaion, the fact that they are not the majority does not mean that they dont exist and you have no right to judge people sexuality as long as noone is harmed (thats pretty much the case in gaming). I took these examples not to say that they should be used as an archetype of anything but to point the fact that they do exist in real life so I dont see why they should not in video games.

 

Like I said in another thread I truly believe that to change the world you can do one and only one thing : make changes for yourself, because you cant control other people behavior, well you can and it is called dictatorship and as you can see thats not always working great.

[ElectricSheep]

It's really difficult to discuss with someone who's continuously putting his own missed suppositions in your mounth. Half of the things you're responding to I've never said or even thought. You're arguing with your imagined version of me.

 

I am not upset about your opinion, i am upset about your trolling, if you think that these bodies are so unatural and so harmful to women you should have started by making one.

So I've never said anything about these bodies being harmful to anyone. I merely gave my opinion on them, pages ago, yet you still can't let go and keep chasing me and telling that I'm trolling and nobody wants to hear my opinion.

 

I dont think any of the bodies available for Skyrim are in any case an archetype of women in video games, you should even rejoice that for once you are given a choice and not one single archetype

And I don't think so too, the bodies simply reflect what they're authors consider sexy. To me they look fake, ugly and out of place in the given setting. It's as simple as that.

 

I am a pretty high moral character in real life, I never killed, raped or anything of the sort, I never even thought of these kind of things, (well not true I might have wanted to kill others when I was pissed off like any other human being, but that never got passed the thought stage).

God bless you.

 

In a fantasy game you dont have any right to dictate what I should or shouldnt do,

I dictate you what you should do, how?

 

the fact is the women archetype in video games is the same as the women archetype everywhere else, if you look at what most guys consider sexy it is usually a big pair of boobs, thats sad I know but that is the way it is and ranting about UNPB or any mod in Skyrim wont change it.

Why sad, I even like big boobs myself (just not fake big boobs).

 

I was not ranting about UNPB, and certainly not because of the boobs. Stop coming up with this shit.

 

Users of Estrus, rape mods, loli mods and so on are only a small cast of the gaming population like people practicing BDSM in real life are a small part of the populaion, the fact that they are not the majority does not mean that they dont exist and you have no right to judge people sexuality as long as noone is harmed (thats pretty much the case in gaming).

All I said was that I consider supporting virtual pedhophilia morally wrong, and I don't think I'm going to change my mind in this matter. I don't care about Estrus or bondage mods...

 

[Trykz]

I think the biggest problem here is not what others have done with Skyrim (and it's predecessors), but more or less the severe disconnect from what Bethesda DIDN'T do.

 

The Elder Scrolls setting is depicted as this rugged and harsh fantasy world, yet Bethesda took no liberties with making the world itself (and any number of opportunistic situations) more *immersive*. Surely they wanted to appeal to the widest audience possible. Hence, they opted for an "M" rating, as opposed to adult. They could have easily achieved tons more immersion with simple cut-scenes.

 

Any gamer...... ANY GAMER..... regardless of whether they play an RPG, MMO, SIM, or whatever, who claims they don't want to experience the highest possible levels of immersion in their games is, simply put, a bald face liar. Now I'm not talking about the die-hard canonites. They're just hard-code, brainwashed morons who think no game should ever be altered away from the original Gold release version under any circumstances, who I simply ignore.

 

The ES games, Skyrim especially, are depicted as this horrifying world inhabited by dragons, demons, trolls, and a whole plethora of shit looking to kill you. So you can bet your sweet, candy ass that even the simplest of bandits would seek to have their way with a woman in such a world, whether she welcomes it or not. And you can also bet all the women in such a horrific and sadistic world would NOT all look like humpty-dumpty's sister. Nor would they all be of consenting age (but there ARE lines you don't cross in a game under any circumstances just the same). And they certainly wouldn't all look the same, possessing the EXACT SAME body.

 

But hey, I don't begrudge anyone their right to change their views. But I get pretty pissed off when their new views are thrown at me based on some new-found disillusioned vision of "right and wrong". Nexus is a cesspool of such clientele. And why I stay away from there. If these CNHF jackasses are such as described above and chasing off those who prefer something "different" from their views, they can piss off.

 

I liked a lot of the body mods found on Nexus and elsewhere. And I use what I like. And I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks. I won't stop using what I like.

 

Trykz

[lordofthedread]

Not all the points were directed at you, I was merely following the subject of the discussion and I might have been carried away by the conversation, I might even have badly expressed myself targeting you while my only points toward you were pedophilia (dafuq is it relevant here? As far as I know there are no pedophilia mods either here or on the Nexus) and your hatred of the body mods giving no constructive comments whatsoever in a modding community were such assets are given for free without anything forcing you to use them. So let me apologize if it looked like the whole post was directed at you personally that was not intentional.

 

Just stating that is out of place is really a matter of personal opinion, there nothing in the lore of TES that says how boobs should look like in the first place and there is even a plastic surgeon in cistern, This is a fantasy world and it should empathize on fantasy, more even in a modded game you will have to face the fantasy of the modder himself that will probably be a lot different than yours.

 

The other points were about the portraying of woman as a sex object in video games and the moral issues, either you consider everything with morality, that includes killing people (and even children with the use of a pretty popular mod on the nexus) or you dont, and for me thats how you dictate (not you personally) my way of gaming, this point was more directed to Calyps and the videos he linked on his blog actually.

[ElectricSheep]

No need for apologies, just group your thoughts and responses in some decent manner as it's impossible to tell to whom and about whom are you speaking. ;p

 

Just stating that is out of place is really a matter of personal opinion, there nothing in the lore of TES that says how boobs should look like in the first place and there is even a plastic surgeon in cistern, This is a fantasy world and it should empathize on fantasy, more even in a modded game you will have to face the fantasy of the modder himself that will probably be a lot different than yours.

Justifying everything because it's fantasy I find kind of weird. There are no specific instructions as to how a "fantasy female" should be built (because it all depends on many different factors), but don't try to convince me that a character that looks like a modern porn star is not out of place in the harsh and rugged land of Skyrim, because it's simply facetious - despite all the forced explanations you can come up with (time machine, space aliens or whatever).

 

Aside from that, these bodies are joke on the basic merits of human anatomy and proportions.

 

either you consider everything with morality, that includes killing people (and even children with the use of a pretty popular mod on the nexus) or you dont, and for me thats how you dictate (not you personally) my way of gaming

I've already said why I disagree with this point of view and I tend to discuss arguments vs arguments.

 

[lordofthedread]

I disagree in the fact that UNP or UNPB looks like a modern pornstar, that it does look realistic is something else, at first because realistic would mean that one body is not shared by the entire gender in the game and second because IRL there are milions of different bodies and you just cant make something that would appear realistic in that context while sticking to something that is appealiing, and of course I personally like my girls to look sexy in my game, I kinda agree that CBBE does and thats why I am not fond of it.

 

I am pretty sure breasts are the most difficult part to render no matter what and I didnt found one single game that represented them in a realistic way thats why I am engaging you to try, not only to brag but because I would love to see that too and my artistic skills are way below 0, I still think it is the easy way to spit on what has been done when you didnt do better.

 

Like Trykz said rape has its place in the world of Skyrim, it fits perfectly indeed, I wont talk again about pedophilia because it is irrelevant without examples, and I dont find any body mod immoral in any case.

 

I also dont like to be dicted whats moral and whats is not especially by someone who made a fantasy big boobed body (lets pass on the 'human' proportions when you have elves, khajits and so on around) and made a sudden 360 to show a video of a feminist that pretty use the damsel in distress torpe, I can assure you that my lvl 80 damsel was not in distress at all and was kicking asses more than she had her kicked.

 

I could pretty much respect any point of view but I wont accept that someone want me to share his point of view out of righteous morality.

[ElectricSheep]

I disagree in the fact that UNP or UNPB looks like a modern pornstar, that it does look realistic is something else, at first because realistic would mean that one body is not shared by the entire gender in the game and second because IRL there are milions of different bodies and you just cant make something that would appear realistic in that context while sticking to something that is appealiing,

1) CBBE looks like a porn star, UNP looks more like an alien creature (turian female?;p).

2) Yes it is unrealistic that one body is shared by the entire gender, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the body itself (being unrealistic or not).

3) Of course you can make something that looks realistic and appealing at the same time.

 

I didnt found one single game that represented them in a realistic way thats why I am engaging you to try,

But I tried, and let's not exaggerate. Examples: "The Witcher 2", "Far Cry 3".

[GrimReaper]

 

It's always a choice. Violence is not needed.

Both violence and sex are part of our world as well as part of human nature and we do need them. Not to mention that you can't ban sex/nudity from games due to reasons of purely factual nature alone (read: it's impossible as long as there is a demand). It's not even a choice but necessity.

 

 

 

Again, this is a naturalistic fallacy. And a plain wrong statement anyway, since there are games that prove your point wrong by just not including any violence.

[ElectricSheep]

How is this a naturalistic fallacy? I don't find it good or wrong, it's just how it is.

 

Necessity in my statement ≠ every single game has to contain violence, I mean that violent games are needed in general (because we humans want to play violent games as well as we want to watch violent movies). If Infinity Ward would refuse to make another COD, some other developer would take advantage of the alienated audience.

[Duoleb The Chosen]

I think the biggest problem here is not what others have done with Skyrim (and it's predecessors), but more or less the severe disconnect from what Bethesda DIDN'T do.

 

The Elder Scrolls setting is depicted as this rugged and harsh fantasy world, yet Bethesda took no liberties with making the world itself (and any number of opportunistic situations) more *immersive*. Surely they wanted to appeal to the widest audience possible. Hence, they opted for an "M" rating, as opposed to adult. They could have easily achieved tons more immersion with simple cut-scenes.

 

Any gamer...... ANY GAMER..... regardless of whether they play an RPG, MMO, SIM, or whatever, who claims they don't want to experience the highest possible levels of immersion in their games is, simply put, a bald face liar. Now I'm not talking about the die-hard canonites. They're just hard-code, brainwashed morons who think no game should ever be altered away from the original Gold release version under any circumstances, who I simply ignore.

 

The ES games, Skyrim especially, are depicted as this horrifying world inhabited by dragons, demons, trolls, and a whole plethora of shit looking to kill you. So you can bet your sweet, candy ass that even the simplest of bandits would seek to have their way with a woman in such a world, whether she welcomes it or not. And you can also bet all the women in such a horrific and sadistic world would NOT all look like humpty-dumpty's sister. Nor would they all be of consenting age (but there ARE lines you don't cross in a game under any circumstances just the same). And they certainly wouldn't all look the same, possessing the EXACT SAME body.

 

But hey, I don't begrudge anyone their right to change their views. But I get pretty pissed off when their new views are thrown at me based on some new-found disillusioned vision of "right and wrong". Nexus is a cesspool of such clientele. And why I stay away from there. If these CNHF jackasses are such as described above and chasing off those who prefer something "different" from their views, they can piss off.

 

I liked a lot of the body mods found on Nexus and elsewhere. And I use what I like. And I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks. I won't stop using what I like.

 

Trykz

Morrowind was high fantasy to the death

 

look the concepts of the Dunmer civilization, The armors, The Tribunal and Vvardenfel itself, Daggerfall had this but morrowind was made on Weed and Acid, Oblivion still had this along with SI, with Oblivion itself being a High Fantasy D&D style with some concepts like armored guards, the culture and etc(TL;DR it was TES with LOTR).

 

Skyrim its basically a TES game with Nordic Legends and Mythos along with some High and Low Fantasy concepts, but unfortunatelly bethesda went Bethesda and decided to launch this game before it was done and then abbandon him a little bit later.

 

and nudity in TES's isn't old, Daggerfall and Arena had naked girls(mainly Azura until Morrowind)

[ShadowGearX]

 

1) UNP looks more like an alien creature (turian female?;p).

 

 

 

 

 

NO IT DOESN'T LOL Don't hate on turians, they kick ass haha......I do wonder though, do turians have breasts or hard shells? Google time.

[Trykz]

 

 

 

I think the biggest problem here is not what others have done with Skyrim (and it's predecessors), but more or less the severe disconnect from what Bethesda DIDN'T do.

 

The Elder Scrolls setting is depicted as this rugged and harsh fantasy world, yet Bethesda took no liberties with making the world itself (and any number of opportunistic situations) more *immersive*. Surely they wanted to appeal to the widest audience possible. Hence, they opted for an "M" rating, as opposed to adult. They could have easily achieved tons more immersion with simple cut-scenes.

 

Any gamer...... ANY GAMER..... regardless of whether they play an RPG, MMO, SIM, or whatever, who claims they don't want to experience the highest possible levels of immersion in their games is, simply put, a bald face liar. Now I'm not talking about the die-hard canonites. They're just hard-code, brainwashed morons who think no game should ever be altered away from the original Gold release version under any circumstances, who I simply ignore.

 

The ES games, Skyrim especially, are depicted as this horrifying world inhabited by dragons, demons, trolls, and a whole plethora of shit looking to kill you. So you can bet your sweet, candy ass that even the simplest of bandits would seek to have their way with a woman in such a world, whether she welcomes it or not. And you can also bet all the women in such a horrific and sadistic world would NOT all look like humpty-dumpty's sister. Nor would they all be of consenting age (but there ARE lines you don't cross in a game under any circumstances just the same). And they certainly wouldn't all look the same, possessing the EXACT SAME body.

 

But hey, I don't begrudge anyone their right to change their views. But I get pretty pissed off when their new views are thrown at me based on some new-found disillusioned vision of "right and wrong". Nexus is a cesspool of such clientele. And why I stay away from there. If these CNHF jackasses are such as described above and chasing off those who prefer something "different" from their views, they can piss off.

 

I liked a lot of the body mods found on Nexus and elsewhere. And I use what I like. And I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks. I won't stop using what I like.

 

Trykz

Morrowind was high fantasy to the death

 

look the concepts of the Dunmer civilization, The armors, The Tribunal and Vvardenfel itself, Daggerfall had this but morrowind was made on Weed and Acid, Oblivion still had this along with SI, with Oblivion itself being a High Fantasy D&D style with some concepts like armored guards, the culture and etc(TL;DR it was TES with LOTR).

 

Skyrim its basically a TES game with Nordic Legends and Mythos along with some High and Low Fantasy concepts, but unfortunatelly bethesda went Bethesda and decided to launch this game before it was done and then abbandon him a little bit later.

 

and nudity in TES's isn't old, Daggerfall and Arena had naked girls(mainly Azura until Morrowind)

 

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about high fantasy. Tolkien did high fantasy like none other. I wasn't even really talking about general nudity either. More so, I was talking about the disconnect between Bethesda's view of high fantasy, and how it fits into a realistic, immersive world.

 

To the point: it doesn't.

 

But it very easily could have with some strategic cut-scene usage during suitable encounters. Like bandit fights. Or most of the encounters in the DB quest line. Even a simple 3-5 second fade-to-black used in just the right places would have taken the player's imagination wherever they wanted it to wander to. Imagine a reverse kill-cam type situation, where something tragic just befell the player. Queue the imagination, and let the player take the outcome their own way, imagining any number of scenarios that may have just taken place in the blackness.

 

Instead, you get a simple load-screen trip back to your last save..... Woot?!? 

 

Trykz

[Rayblue]

Oh, shit, yet another fight over body mods. 

[Absurdity]

I think the biggest problem here is not what others have done with Skyrim (and it's predecessors), but more or less the severe disconnect from what Bethesda DIDN'T do.

 

The Elder Scrolls setting is depicted as this rugged and harsh fantasy world, yet Bethesda took no liberties with making the world itself (and any number of opportunistic situations) more *immersive*. Surely they wanted to appeal to the widest audience possible. Hence, they opted for an "M" rating, as opposed to adult. They could have easily achieved tons more immersion with simple cut-scenes.

 

Any gamer...... ANY GAMER..... regardless of whether they play an RPG, MMO, SIM, or whatever, who claims they don't want to experience the highest possible levels of immersion in their games is, simply put, a bald face liar. Now I'm not talking about the die-hard canonites. They're just hard-code, brainwashed morons who think no game should ever be altered away from the original Gold release version under any circumstances, who I simply ignore.

 

The ES games, Skyrim especially, are depicted as this horrifying world inhabited by dragons, demons, trolls, and a whole plethora of shit looking to kill you. So you can bet your sweet, candy ass that even the simplest of bandits would seek to have their way with a woman in such a world, whether she welcomes it or not. And you can also bet all the women in such a horrific and sadistic world would NOT all look like humpty-dumpty's sister. Nor would they all be of consenting age (but there ARE lines you don't cross in a game under any circumstances just the same). And they certainly wouldn't all look the same, possessing the EXACT SAME body.

 

But hey, I don't begrudge anyone their right to change their views. But I get pretty pissed off when their new views are thrown at me based on some new-found disillusioned vision of "right and wrong". Nexus is a cesspool of such clientele. And why I stay away from there. If these CNHF jackasses are such as described above and chasing off those who prefer something "different" from their views, they can piss off.

 

I liked a lot of the body mods found on Nexus and elsewhere. And I use what I like. And I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks. I won't stop using what I like.

 

Trykz

 

I actually believe that Oblivion in all it's goofy graphics glory was sometimes a lot more immersive than Skyrim, mainly in the "creepy" department.

Just imagine the Oblivion realms in Skyrim with high res graphics (I''m not talking about you, vanilla Skyrim!)

But that leads me to another reason why I just can't get all that immersed in Skyrim and mostly do random shit: The main story is booooooring.

 

Hell, the last time I actually spend several hours playing the game instead of closing it after 30 minutes to work on some mods was when Dragonborn came out because it's main story was just so much better...

 

[Duoleb The Chosen]

 

I think the biggest problem here is not what others have done with Skyrim (and it's predecessors), but more or less the severe disconnect from what Bethesda DIDN'T do.

 

The Elder Scrolls setting is depicted as this rugged and harsh fantasy world, yet Bethesda took no liberties with making the world itself (and any number of opportunistic situations) more *immersive*. Surely they wanted to appeal to the widest audience possible. Hence, they opted for an "M" rating, as opposed to adult. They could have easily achieved tons more immersion with simple cut-scenes.

 

Any gamer...... ANY GAMER..... regardless of whether they play an RPG, MMO, SIM, or whatever, who claims they don't want to experience the highest possible levels of immersion in their games is, simply put, a bald face liar. Now I'm not talking about the die-hard canonites. They're just hard-code, brainwashed morons who think no game should ever be altered away from the original Gold release version under any circumstances, who I simply ignore.

 

The ES games, Skyrim especially, are depicted as this horrifying world inhabited by dragons, demons, trolls, and a whole plethora of shit looking to kill you. So you can bet your sweet, candy ass that even the simplest of bandits would seek to have their way with a woman in such a world, whether she welcomes it or not. And you can also bet all the women in such a horrific and sadistic world would NOT all look like humpty-dumpty's sister. Nor would they all be of consenting age (but there ARE lines you don't cross in a game under any circumstances just the same). And they certainly wouldn't all look the same, possessing the EXACT SAME body.

 

But hey, I don't begrudge anyone their right to change their views. But I get pretty pissed off when their new views are thrown at me based on some new-found disillusioned vision of "right and wrong". Nexus is a cesspool of such clientele. And why I stay away from there. If these CNHF jackasses are such as described above and chasing off those who prefer something "different" from their views, they can piss off.

 

I liked a lot of the body mods found on Nexus and elsewhere. And I use what I like. And I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks. I won't stop using what I like.

 

Trykz

 

I actually believe that Oblivion in all it's goofy graphics glory was sometimes a lot more immersive than Skyrim, mainly in the "creepy" department.

Just imagine the Oblivion realms in Skyrim with high res graphics (I''m not talking about you, vanilla Skyrim!)

But that leads me to another reason why I just can't get all that immersed in Skyrim and mostly do random shit: The main story is booooooring.

 

Hell, the last time I actually spend several hours playing the game instead of closing it after 30 minutes to work on some mods was when Dragonborn came out because it's main story was just so much better...

 

 

 

like before, bethesda went bethesda like fallout 3 and rushed the project

 

[ShadowGearX]

Oh, shit, yet another fight over body mods. 

you obviously didn't read anything in this thread.