[ SOLVED ] What ceases to work ?

[Dorabella]

Something quite unusual is happening to me. Apparently MCM has stopped working .

 

The function that has disappeared concerns the installation / removal of mods equipped with Masters (ESM, BSA, ESP, ESL) Once a mod with one or more Masters has been uninstalled, restarting the game from the save that contains them, at startup removal is not detected.

 

In conjunction with this, SMP has also ceased to work, Specifically, the vagina has stopped , as seen here , 

 

Male and Female genitals 

 

Are two factors connected?

 

 

[spoonsinger]

Don't remove mods mid game. Problem solved.

[Dorabella]

30 minutes ago, spoonsinger said:

Don't remove mods mid game

Mods related to followers and Floating Damage have been removed. The latter because, I read on Nexus that it can cause SMP to crash

 

Spoiler

Incompatibilities:

• HDT-PE if using it for the same thing as SMP (notably KS hair HDT, applies PE to the body in order to have the hair work)
• Floating damage text, this mod seems to break the SMP dll somehow

 

[woodsman30]

1 hour ago, spoonsinger said:

Don't remove mods mid game. Problem solved.

That is up for debate for a noob yes but, those who have been modding it for a while not so much.  I  have no issues removing mods at anytime I think @Grey Cloud would agree with me there. As for @Lestat1627 question does this happen in older saved games? What about a new game? We all know saved game files can and will get corrupted over time with errors.

[Dorabella]

10 minutes ago, woodsman30 said:

What about a new game?

Already done . Something gets stuck. Unsuccessful attempts (not necessarily in order ) :

Re-installed XPMSE

Re-installed SKSE

Re-Install SkyUi

Re-Installed BHUNP SMP Baka Factory

Re-Installed PhysicExtensions

Re-Launch FNIS with Skeleton and Gender patch 

Clean Save

 

Mods uninstall :

 

Follower

Dint999 HDT Hairs pack ( Also read on nexus which conflicts with SMP )

Floating Damage

 

If it helps, I did this experiment :

deactivated an ESP, started a saved game without the deactivated mod . Uploaded a save where the mod was active and, the missing warning appears

If, on the other hand, I start from the last save, the warning is not there

 

It seems that a specific bug has been generated so far unknown. the various guides (Conglomerate and Stability) do not report anything on the problem

[woodsman30]

Interesting still not sure why your MCM menu would not work have you tried re-installing it? I have stayed away from SMP tried it when it came out was buggy as shit never tried it again.

[spoonsinger]

Can't get back to you with a full explanation. But I'll give it a try. "Dint999 HDT Hairs pack" is an esl. All ESL/ And ESP flagged ESL's are bundled in the 253, (FE hex),  load order slot. The Skyrim engine, (and other games in the series), use a tabled database structure to form their functionality based on unique identifies, (FormID). These form ID's for for standard ESM and ESP take the form of the first byte, (two digits hex),  being the load order and the rest of the bytes being the actual identifier. eg for a cabbage the FormID is  00064B3F. This first two digits in that number are the module it's in. In this case Skyrim.esm, and the rest are the unique identifier for that item in that module. So you can see you can have in another module a 03064B3F which might be a sword or something. The first two digits would be where it's defined and the rest it's identifier. For ESL's, and ESP flagged ESL's, the first digit is always FE, and the next 3 digits would be the ESL/ESP flagged ESP module ID, (i.e. the ID of HAIR.ESL, and the next 3 digits of the actual hair ID in that module.  The problem with ESL/ESP flagged ESL's is that the engine doesn't know when you remove or change the load order of the module because as far as it's concerned it's still at 'FE', (i.e. the load order position of "ALL" ESL/ESP flagged ESL's.

 

Note also this actually applies to standard ESM/ESP for scripts which have data saved in the save file. For example if you have a setup of :-

 

00 Skyrim.ESM

01 Update.ESM

02 SexMod.ESM

03 BIGGAPINGHOLES.ESP

04 GAPINGFLANGE.ESP

05 BIGFLOPPYDONGS.ESP

 

Each of those modules having formid's referencing some object or terrain or something. What do you think would happen to the values of the form ID's in saved scripts in BIGFLOPPYDONGS.ESP, if you removed GAPINGFLANGE.ESP from that list. The game would tell you that GAPINGFLANGE.ESP is missing, but the formID's in the save will still be there, (They might be invalid FormID's, not point to an actual object or they might be pointing to a totally unrelated object).

 

But for and ESL/ESP flagged ESL. The missing module message isn't going to happen because it's always at FE. However it will still screw up FormID's for other ESL/ESP flagged ESL's,.

 

In summery, don't change load order, add or remove modules mid game.

 

 

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, spoonsinger said:

So you can see you can have in another module a 03064B3F which might be a sword or something.

I'm not going to get into a debate here as I don't play Skyrim these days but here is a little experiment for you.

Start a game and check the ID of, e.g. your sword.

Change your load order so that the sword mod gets a different position.

Load your save and then check the ID of the sword.

The first two characters will change because, as you said, they are the LO number (position in the 255 plug-ins).

The other 6 characters will remain the same because they are 'hard-coded' by the esp/esm.

In other words, the first two characters are dynamic and are assigned in-game after/as the mod loads.

 

1 hour ago, spoonsinger said:

All ESL/ And ESP flagged ESL's are bundled in the 253, (FE hex)

253 decimal is fd hex.

LE doesn't use the esl extension

The save file itself uses one of the 255 slots and I think I'm right in saying that it always uses slot 255 (ff hex)

 

[spoonsinger]

29 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

I'm not going to get into a debate here as I don't play Skyrim these days but here is a little experiment for you.

Start a game and check the ID of, e.g. your sword.

Change your load order so that the sword mod gets a different position.

Load your save and then check the ID of the sword.

The first two characters will change because, as you said, they are the LO number (position in the 255 plug-ins).

The other 6 characters will remain the same because they are 'hard-coded' by the esp/esm.

In other words, the first two characters are dynamic and are assigned in-game after/as the mod loads.

 

253 decimal is fd hex.

LE doesn't use the esl extension

The save file itself uses one of the 255 slots and I think I'm right in saying that it always uses slot 255 (ff hex)

 

 

You are totally correct. FE isn't 253. (I will put that down to my ignorance). That said 255, (FF), is for dynamic game generated FormID's.  The base ID of said sword would be the module it's defined in, the FF states that it's an instance of it has been generated at runtime.

[Grey Cloud]

8 minutes ago, spoonsinger said:

The base ID of said sword would be the module it's defined in, the FF states that it's an instance of it has been generated at runtime.

And the key wording there is ". . . generated at runtime". In other words it is dynamic which is what I said.

 

Another thing you may want to consider is if changing your load order is such a bad thing then why do all the mod managers let you do it? Or least not give you a warning if you do. The same with LOOT and XEdit.

 

If you want a game that doesn't like you changing mods between saves then try Crusader Kings 3 - it's getting right on my tits, especially as it is such a ball-acher to start a fresh game.

 

[Sgt. Marge]

Are you getting anything in your MCM?  are there things there but just blank menu, or things are not showing up anymore?  tried this command?

 

setstage ski_configmanagerinstance 1

 

If it works on a brand new character but not the previous character after removal, something got baked into that save file I guess.

[Dorabella]

1 hour ago, Marg597 said:

are there things there but just blank menu, or things are not showing up anymore? 

Shows everything installed, no warning about shutdown and / or removal of mods containing Master files .

Save the game, I remove and / or deactivate a Master , I start the game from saving and the warning of the lack of the Master is not displayed . Along with this, SMP ceases full or partial functions

 

4 hours ago, spoonsinger said:

if you removed GAPINGFLANGE.ESP from that list. The game would tell you that GAPINGFLANGE.ESP is missing,

This is precisely what does NOT occur

 

4 hours ago, spoonsinger said:

 

In summery, don't change load order,

I leave it to LOOT to manage this, which always brings it back the same . 

 

3 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

Start a game and check the ID of, e.g. your sword.

Change your load order so that the sword mod gets a different position.

Test done and the ID changes but, shouldn't I get a warning that the mod is removed or disabled?
How does this affect a physics that remains unchanged?

 

 

 

Started the game by turning off the Sword Plugin, no detection 

A new game has started, the save is loaded and the ESP absent warning appears

 

Spoiler

 

 

Shouldn't this happen anyway starting from the save? ESP is turned off

[donttouchmethere]

6 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

Another thing you may want to consider is if changing your load order is such a bad thing then why do all the mod managers let you do it? Or least not give you a warning if you do. The same with LOOT and XEdit.

Last time I crossed the street on red and no one gave me a warning.
If this is so dangerous why is it possible to cross the street?

[Grey Cloud]

10 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

Last time I crossed the street on red and no one gave me a warning.
If this is so dangerous why is it possible to cross the street?

The red light is a warning - there are no warnings in the progs I mentioned.

[Dorabella]

Not having identified the cause, I did the simplest thing: Uninstalled and reinstalled Skyrim, reducing the mods aloo bare essentials 

 

Now, everything works the way I wanted, until the next fucking bug  

[worik]

6 minutes ago, Lestat1627 said:

Now, everything works the way I wanted, until the next fucking bug  

Just make it a habit to track your changes in a log or to have your mod manager do that for you.

It makes it easier to understand what you did wrong since it worked the last time for you

[Dorabella]

7 minutes ago, worik said:

Just make it a habit to track your changes

That's what I do. I transcribe the LOOT order in a TXT