Breast Pushup System for FG

[vaultbait]

7 hours ago, izzyknows said:

No it doesn't. Been using 1.6.20 since it came out.. no issues.

The manual isn't 10000% correct, but a very good baseline to get started.

 

Me too. Some users have reported issues with erection morphs frequently not getting applied in AAF scenes with later versions of LM, which is the reason for the manual's recommendation. It happens very rarely in my game though, and no more often than it did back when 1.6.18 was still the latest version.

 

It's also worth keeping in mind that LM patches from mods like Buffout 4 and Immersive Nail Polish are made for 1.6.20, and so are likely to behave strangely with older LM versions.

[lampuiho]

7 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

Me too. Some users have reported issues with erection morphs frequently not getting applied in AAF scenes with later versions of LM, which is the reason for the manual's recommendation. It happens very rarely in my game though, and no more often than it did back when 1.6.18 was still the latest version.

 

It's also worth keeping in mind that LM patches from mods like Buffout 4 and Immersive Nail Polish are made for 1.6.20, and so are likely to behave strangely with older LM versions.

Speaking of AAF, this mod has a bug where when AAF strips clothings, the pushup morhps don't get removed because there is no unequip event the way AAF strips clothing. 

[Tiptopbunman]

On 11/12/2023 at 8:24 AM, lampuiho said:

Speaking of AAF, this mod has a bug where when AAF strips clothings, the pushup morhps don't get removed because there is no unequip event the way AAF strips clothing. 

Simple solution could be to have an onEvent check that is triggered by the AAF scene start function. It'd make AAF a requirement, otherwise you could put it in a seperate espfe patch to the main mod. I believe that Wasteland Eggspansion does this but for a different function(?)

[vaultbait]

10 hours ago, Tiptopbunman said:

Simple solution could be to have an onEvent check that is triggered by the AAF scene start function. It'd make AAF a requirement, otherwise you could put it in a seperate espfe patch to the main mod. I believe that Wasteland Eggspansion does this but for a different function(?)

 

It is, in fact, entirely possible to have "soft" integration with another mod and still catch events from it when it's present. You can look at the ProxyAAF scripts in my Unhealthy Craving or Milking Human Kindness mods for examples, but the basic idea is that your main script checks whether AAF is installed and then conditionally starts a quest that has an attached script that is linked against the other mod (in this case AAF), and that second script registers and reacts to events and calls functions from your main script when necessary to pass along the information.

[Saya Scarlett]

On 11/11/2023 at 4:00 AM, izzyknows said:

No it doesn't. Been using 1.6.20 since it came out.. no issues.

The manual isn't 10000% correct, but a very good baseline to get started.

 

It does. 1.6.20 breaks morphs and you can ask Dago, Ego, or anyone more technically inclined than myself.

It doesn't break morphs for very few people in comparison to the thousands upon thousands of people that play this game and use LooksMenu but there IS an issue that Ego had to fix in one of the mod's files, and never got word back from LM author.

 

1.6.20 has also, for some reason that we haven't figured out yet, completely stopped AAF from running and rolling back to 1.6.18 allowed AAF to finally run for some users. Although they're as few as those where 1.6.20 doesn't break morphs.

 

Safest best is to use 1.6.18.

If 1.6.20 works for you, that's all well and good, but everything in TFM is listed as it is for a reason.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Saya Scarlett

[izzyknows]

1 hour ago, Saya Scarlett said:

1.6.20 has also, for some reason that we haven't figured out yet, completely stopped AAF from running and rolling back to 1.6.18 allowed AAF to finally run for some users.

Wonder how many of them are MO2 or Vortex users?

Simplicity will help quell stupidity, but stupid will always find a way to win.

 

[vaultbait]

52 minutes ago, izzyknows said:

Wonder how many of them are MO2 or Vortex users?

Simplicity will help quell stupidity, but stupid will always find a way to win.

 

I'm happily using LM 1.6.20 in Vortex. Also not using UAP, so maybe that has something to do with it?

 

1.6.20 also fixes a rather significant problem with keyword morph priorities, so basically users get to choose which bug annoys them the most.

 

The good news is, last I saw/heard, the next version of AAF is recommending LM 1.6.20 and the erection morph problem has been mostly mitigated. That version hasn't been made available to testers yet though, so no guarantees it will be solved, but at least there's hope on the horizon.

[izzyknows]

2 hours ago, vaultbait said:

I'm happily using LM 1.6.20 in Vortex. Also not using UAP, so maybe that has something to do with it?

I'm actually using UAP and no issues, but I'll probably go back to my version with is faaaar less bloated. So dunno. There are sooo many variables and folks not knowing what is really causing their issues it's hard to tell.

[lampuiho]

On 11/15/2023 at 4:16 AM, Tiptopbunman said:

Simple solution could be to have an onEvent check that is triggered by the AAF scene start function. It'd make AAF a requirement, otherwise you could put it in a seperate espfe patch to the main mod. I believe that Wasteland Eggspansion does this but for a different function(?)

Yea but it still wouldn't trigger if the player changes gear with equipment manager buttons during a scene. And at the scene start, not sure if the player has clothes stripped already. I can also just completely disable the morphs regardless of whether clothes are stripped. But not quite elegant and comprehensive.

[Saya Scarlett]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:57 AM, izzyknows said:

Wonder how many of them are MO2 or Vortex users?

Simplicity will help quell stupidity, but stupid will always find a way to win.

 

 

Both.

[Saya Scarlett]

On 11/16/2023 at 11:54 AM, vaultbait said:

The good news is, last I saw/heard, the next version of AAF is recommending LM 1.6.20 and the erection morph problem has been mostly mitigated.

 

Not it wasn't. Not entirely.

AAF itself won't fix it, as the issue lies in LM itself. LM is the one that handles morphs, and LM has to be fixed.

 

Ego himself, who fixed the issue in LM's DLL file itself but never got word back from LM author, not even a day ago:

Quote

There’s nothing you can do in AAF to cause or prevent it. It’s a race condition in LooksMenu itself.

 

The fix I made [(talking about LM's DLL fix he made and forwarded to LM author)] introduces a 1 microsecond sleep in one of the functions, which really just causes that thread to yield the CPU and ensures the other thread finishes first. That reliably prevents the issue.

 

My fix in LLFP will be to hook that function and replace it with a version that has the same delay.

 

But the bug is internal to LooksMenu, there's nothing the calling mod/script/etc can do to prevent the problem.

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Saya Scarlett

[vaultbait]

1 hour ago, Saya Scarlett said:

 

Not it wasn't. Not entirely.

AAF itself won't fix it, as the issue lies in LM itself. LM is the one that handles morphs, and LM has to be fixed.

 

Ego himself, who fixed the issue in LM's DLL file itself but never got word back from LM author, not even a day ago:

 

 

Right, the workaround is technically going to be in LLFP it sounds like, since the LM maintainer is missing in action.

[Saya Scarlett]

5 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

Right, the workaround is technically going to be in LLFP it sounds like, since the LM maintainer is missing in action.

 

Yes, and no. As far as I'm aware, and from what Ego has mentioned, the core problem needs to be fixed in LM anyway.

The LLFP 'workaround' you're thinking of, wouldn't fix anything, 'cause body morphs are managed by LM itself.

 

TL;DR: Use 1.6.18 regardless. Unless you wanna ask Ego for the DLL fix he forwarded to LM author.

 

If 1.6.20 works fine for you, good.

But please don't go telling everyone to. We're the ones that are bloody tired of telling people to roll back.

There's reasons why TFM says 1.6.18, and every other user should just stick to it.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Saya Scarlett

[Tiptopbunman]

15 hours ago, lampuiho said:

Yea but it still wouldn't trigger if the player changes gear with equipment manager buttons during a scene. And at the scene start, not sure if the player has clothes stripped already. I can also just completely disable the morphs regardless of whether clothes are stripped. But not quite elegant and comprehensive.

Script that detects equipment manager running, hooks into the equip mgmt functions, and unapplies morphs based on equip management slot strip?

[vaultbait]

11 hours ago, Saya Scarlett said:

 

Yes, and no. As far as I'm aware, and from what Ego has mentioned, the core problem needs to be fixed in LM anyway.

The LLFP 'workaround' you're thinking of, wouldn't fix anything, 'cause body morphs are managed by LM itself.

 

TL;DR: Use 1.6.18 regardless. Unless you wanna ask Ego for the DLL fix he forwarded to LM author.

 

If 1.6.20 works fine for you, good.

But please don't go telling everyone to. We're the ones that are bloody tired of telling people to roll back.

There's reasons why TFM says 1.6.18, and every other user should just stick to it.

 

Sorry, I wasn't looking for an argument, I said there's hope on the horizon. I get that you're burned out by a constant barrage of idiots who can't tell which is the sharp end of their mod manager, but please let's keep this conversation civil.

 

I haven't gone and told anyone to use LM 1.6.20. I tell them that if they want to get help from anyone in the AAF Discord they should follow the manual to the letter, regardless of whether they think they know better. And if they're sure they don't need help from folks in the AAF Discord then they can install whatever they like, but they'll be the ones on the hook to figure out solutions when something goes wrong.

 

The unfortunate truth is that LM 1.6.18 (and 1.6.19) has a nasty bug with how it renders conflicting keyword morphs that got fixed in 1.6.20, but also has a timing problem affecting penis morphs which apparently got significantly worse for some users in 1.6.20 (and in 1.6.19). Both bugs are annoying in different ways for different users, and they have to choose to solve one at the expense of the other. It's true that if they want to get any help from the AAF Discord channels, they'll need to give up on or find inconvenient workarounds for the conflicting keyword morphs bug. Not every mod is always (or can even be configured to be) 100% compatible with the versions of other mods in the manual.

Edited November 18, 2023 by vaultbait

[Saya Scarlett]

On 11/18/2023 at 4:10 PM, vaultbait said:

 

Sorry, I wasn't looking for an argument, I said there's hope on the horizon. I get that you're burned out by a constant barrage of idiots who can't tell which is the sharp end of their mod manager, but please let's keep this conversation civil.

 

I haven't gone and told anyone to use LM 1.6.20. I tell them that if they want to get help from anyone in the AAF Discord they should follow the manual to the letter, regardless of whether they think they know better. And if they're sure they don't need help from folks in the AAF Discord then they can install whatever they like, but they'll be the ones on the hook to figure out solutions when something goes wrong.

 

The unfortunate truth is that LM 1.6.18 (and 1.6.19) has a nasty bug with how it renders conflicting keyword morphs that got fixed in 1.6.20, but also has a timing problem affecting penis morphs which apparently got significantly worse for some users in 1.6.20 (and in 1.6.19). Both bugs are annoying in different ways for different users, and they have to choose to solve one at the expense of the other. It's true that if they want to get any help from the AAF Discord channels, they'll need to give up on or find inconvenient workarounds for the conflicting keyword morphs bug. Not every mod is always (or can even be configured to be) 100% compatible with the versions of other mods in the manual.

 

Not trying to argue either. I don't see where I wasn't being civil. I didn't insult you or anything.

All I'm saying is that "works on my machine" isn't really something one should go for.

TFM states to use 1.6.18 'cause more often than not, 1.6.20 straight up breaks erection morphs.

And given the statistics that we see on a daily basis, people should stick to TFM. Every little note is there for a reason. That's all I'm saying.

 

And I'm "correcting" in a general manner, 'cause I'm replying to you and someone else in this thread, that's all. Not all of that was directed at you per-se ✌️

Also, Forums suck ass for troubleshooting and shit. It's 2023 people, come on ?

[vaultbait]

30 minutes ago, Saya Scarlett said:

TFM states to use 1.6.18 'cause more often than not, 1.6.20 straight up breaks erection morphs.

 

Reports that are less likely to bubble up to the AAF Discord are ones like, "FPE says I'm pregnant but my belly isn't morphing," where the solution is to either disable cumflation in Sex Attributes or upgrade to a newer (albeit unsupported from your perspective) version of LooksMenu.

 

Also, if you're really concerned users are getting the wrong message, keep in mind that https://bitbucket.org/dagobaking/aaf-framework/wiki/Main/CHANGELOG.md claims:

 

Quote

Requires: Fallout 4 - 1.10.163 / F4SE - 0.6.21 / LooksMenu - 1.6.20

 

[Guest]

possibility of one that doesnt check slot 41?

 

[Saya Scarlett]

On 11/20/2023 at 4:04 PM, vaultbait said:

Also, if you're really concerned users are getting the wrong message, keep in mind that https://bitbucket.org/dagobaking/aaf-framework/wiki/Main/CHANGELOG.md claims:

 

It does, and I've brought it up to Dago.

But AAF is one thing. AAF isn't inherently NSFW. TFM is, and it states one should use 1.6.18 for that very reason.

 

On 11/20/2023 at 4:04 PM, vaultbait said:

Reports that are less likely to bubble up to the AAF Discord are ones like, "FPE says I'm pregnant but my belly isn't morphing," where the solution is to either disable cumflation in Sex Attributes or upgrade to a newer (albeit unsupported from your perspective) version of LooksMenu.

 

Belly morph, cum inflation and/or pregnancy works just fine with 1.6.18.

If people are having enabled 2 mods or mod options that do the same thing, then it really isn't a problem with LM itself, is it.

But then there's those that have more than one mod attempting to belly morph from sex/cum, etc. (SA and I forget the other.)

There's many variables at play, and it all usually boils down to Not Reading™ mod descriptions and/or functions they have.

  

On 11/20/2023 at 4:04 PM, vaultbait said:

(albeit unsupported from your perspective) version of LooksMenu.

 

Not just my perspective. You're free to ask @EgoBallistic about it, what is wrong with it, and what he did to fix LM's DLL so 1.6.20 functions and morphs shit properly without breaking.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Saya Scarlett

[vaultbait]

27 minutes ago, Saya Scarlett said:

If people are having enabled 2 mods or mod options that do the same thing, then it really isn't a problem with LM itself, is it.

 

It must be in this case, since the LM author treated it as a bug and went to the trouble to fix it in 1.6.20. The intent in LM is that the highest keyword morph value for each slider should "win" over lower values.

 

I'm not trying to claim that the manual is "wrong", just that there are multiple bugs, and users will have to decide which bug is worse for them (and that they should not bother people on the AAF Discord about it if they choose a version of LM which the manual says not to use).

[Saya Scarlett]

On 11/27/2023 at 12:49 PM, vaultbait said:

(and that they should not bother people on the AAF Discord about it if they choose a version of LM which the manual says not to use).

 

You're wasting your time then. If there's one thing I learned pretty fucking quick, is that 9 times out of 10, people don't read fuckall. So this whole discussion's just gonna die between you and me lmfao.

[JC4130]

Nice work, thank you. currently been running 2 different looksmenu presets to get this effect, so be awesome to get it dialed on outfit swaps. I'm going to have to edit some armour slots I think. If I equip a pair of slot 33 boots (and nothing else)I get pushup, and If I equip slot 41 heavy armour I get full gravity back lol.

[sen4mi]

Has anyone thought about SAKR integration with this mod?

 

(I am thinking it would be easier to create a variant of this mod which directly used sakr keywords than it would be to dynamically tie the two mods together. Does this perspective sound sensible?)

 

(I do not think the looksmenu / llfp keyword morph conflict issues make that too ambiguous of a project to be worth tackling... but maybe I do not understand those conflicts adequately?)

 

((I should probably try it myself, but ck sometimes acts up on my machine, and that's on top of my limited understanding of the systems. So... little toe in the water...))

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Edit: I suppose the downside of this approach is that it would need three sakr keywords to be checked (both OnInit and OnPlayerLoadGame would need to run the function which checks for the existence of these keywords and gets their values):

 

Game.GetFormFromFile(0x81A, "SkimpyArmorKeywordResource.esm") as Keyword    ; sakr_kwd_topFull

Game.GetFormFromFile(0x81B, "SkimpyArmorKeywordResource.esm") as Keyword    ; sakr_kwd_topCleavage

Game.GetFormFromFile(0x81C, "SkimpyArmorKeywordResource.esm") as Keyword    ; sakr_kwd_topLowCutCleavage

 

If those exist (and of course, if one exists, they would all exist) the system would be: if any of them are present, use the pushup system, and if none of them are on the armor do not use the pushup system. Basically, I guess I am thinking that none of these keywords were on a slot 33 (or 41) armor (which would have to be equipped to matter), that would (if they exist) be equivalent to the BreastPushupBlackList keyword being present. I have been trying to think of flaws with this approach and (other than the "little matter of implementation") I am not seeing potential problems.

 

Which, of course, might mean that I have a blindspot.

 

(And, I guess I also wish that sakr had another keyword to put on armor which said that it had been keyworded for that system.)

 

Edited February 7, 2024 by sen4mi

[vaultbait]

16 minutes ago, sen4mi said:

Has anyone thought about SAKR integration with this mod?

 

(I am thinking it would be easier to create a variant of this mod which directly used sakr keywords than it would be to dynamically tie the two mods together. Does this perspective sound sensible?)

 

Might work, depending on how you envision them integrating? Does SAKR have a push-up keyword that indicates whether an item pushes the breasts up? (Disclaimer: I won't be the one to develop it, as I don't use Breast Pushup System, mostly just curious.)

 

20 minutes ago, sen4mi said:

I do not think the looksmenu / llfp keyword morph conflict issues make that too ambiguous of a project to be worth tackling... but maybe I do not understand those conflicts adequately?

 

BodyGen (part of LooksMenu, not LLFP) keyword morph conflicts only manifest when you have two or more mods trying to alter the same exact slider by different amounts. Odds are the slider(s) for breast push-up effects are unlikely to get used by another mod, so I'd classify the risk as low but possible.

[sen4mi]

2 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

Might work, depending on how you envision them integrating? Does SAKR have a push-up keyword that indicates whether an item pushes the breasts up? (Disclaimer: I won't be the one to develop it, as I don't use Breast Pushup System, mostly just curious.)

 

I was envisioning "any sakr keyword that did not leave the top nude would get pushup unless the clothing item had one of the two existing keywords from this mod".

 

It might make sense to add a keyword (or maybe two) to this mod, to override that logic - to get pushup even without one of those three keywords.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2024 by sen4mi