Old SexLab Submit - (Merge into the current Submit thread?)

[redeyesandlonghair]

You're going to make a patch for SKyRe right? 

[dkatryl]

I don't use SkyRe.

 

Be kind of hard to do a patch for something I don't use.

[MythicMiss]

So, if I'm reading this right, a theoretical lazy but "talented" enchantress (100 Speechcraft and Illusion, all non-quest perks, no questlines completed) attempting to seduce a theoretical hapless farmboy she just met (15 Speech and Illusion, relationship rank 0) has a 57.5% chance of success? Seems a little low, maybe, but I guess that's what the difficulty setting is for.

[dkatryl]

Apparently, there is a limit to how long a script can get before the CK has trouble with it.  Apparently, if done within the CK, that limit seems to be ~970-ish lines.  Apparently, I've hit that in my _SLSubmitConfig script, so I ported the non-config related functions over to the _SLSubmitQuest script.  Naturally, doing this required some rework of everything that referenced the original script for those functions, so I lost some time tonight on that.

 

But, that little rework is done, and I managed to get a few more things knocked out:

• Have wandering guards trigger a "trespassing" fine if they catch you having consensual sex in public.
• Re-added a 'Calm' effect to hostile NPC's that submit as well as when the player surrenders.

 

These are the things left to do before the next update:

• Follower Support - 3-ways
• Add a GoodSex() vs BadSex() post sex hook to possibly increase (or decrease!) your RelationshipRank() with the NPC if you seduced them.  Not applicable if you bribed them, since you technically just turned them into a prostitute!
• Add "Bound & Gagged" alternative to having all of your gear stolen during a Player Surrender.
• Add "Subdued Hostile NPC" bounty turn in to local Guards for gold.
• More Play Testing!

I expect I can knock out two a night, leaving me Fri night to just play test some more, so hopefully I'll have the update available before the weekend.  Or so is the plan!

[dkatryl]

So, if I'm reading this right, a theoretical lazy but "talented" enchantress (100 Speechcraft and Illusion, all non-quest perks, no questlines completed) attempting to seduce a theoretical hapless farmboy she just met (15 Speech and Illusion, relationship rank 0) has a 57.5% chance of success? Seems a little low, maybe, but I guess that's what the difficulty setting is for.

 

Well, let's put things in perspective.  I don't care how 'smoove' of a playa' you are, what are the odds that you walk up to a stranger on the street IRL and have them ready to drop their pants with just a few words?

 

Not to mention what are the odds you have 100 Speechcraft *and* Illusion and NOTHING else?

 

Let me put it this way, my guy with 69 Speechcraft, 21 Illusion, only completed the Companion's quest chain (I just became a Nightingale, so not quite done with the Thieve's Guild), and has the Allure perk, he has 35.5% chance to seduce a Adrianne the blacksmith, with whom he is Relationship Rank = 1, according to the result notification.  That's with +0% bonus from the MCM slider.  It becomes 60.5% if I max it to +25%

 

I think it's all fairly reasonable.

 

Besides, it's not like it's a one time shot.  Just go hit on some other NPC, then come back in a day or whatever to try again.

[Menesh]

I think you should separate Illusion and Speech into different topics. Not everyone would mess with peoples minds to get laid just because they can. Also, separating them opens possibilities for consequences, should the illusion check fail. You know, Nord don't trust mages, and mages that are found trying to get into peoples pants with magic shouldn't get out of this without at least an assault fine.

[nhl]

Apparently, there is a limit to how long a script can get before the CK has trouble with it.  Apparently, if done within the CK, that limit seems to be ~970-ish lines.  Apparently, I've hit that in my _SLSubmitConfig script, so I ported the non-config related functions over to the _SLSubmitQuest script.  Naturally, doing this required some rework of everything that referenced the original script for those functions, so I lost some time tonight on that.

 

You can write your script in an external program and have the CK compile it and auto-fill properties just fine if you put the psc file in your source folder and don't edit it with the CK.

 

[CGi]

Apparently, there is a limit to how long a script can get before the CK has trouble with it.  Apparently, if done within the CK, that limit seems to be ~970-ish lines.  

Haven't run into this myself yet, but can someone confirm this? As far as i'm aware all previous Bethesda games had a hard limit for script lenghts.

in case of FO:NV is was something over 32000 charachters, counting tabs and linebreaks ofc.

Above the engine couldn't read the script properly.

[shinji72]

You'll never get the perfect formula for a seduction. The more natural way would be to give each npc in the game a unique difficulty setting. And then spend your life making patches for the thounsands of mod which add npcs to the game.

Maybe, if you like, you could ad a malus to seduce or bribe to all "important npcs" in the vanilla game. I mean the jarls, the most important nobles, guild leaders and maven.

Maybe they already have an High speechcraft so it's already incorporated in your basic formula.

[dkatryl]

I think you should separate Illusion and Speech into different topics. Not everyone would mess with peoples minds to get laid just because they can. Also, separating them opens possibilities for consequences, should the illusion check fail. You know, Nord don't trust mages, and mages that are found trying to get into peoples pants with magic shouldn't get out of this without at least an assault fine.

 

Eh, 'Illusion' is being used by Bethesda for what are tradionally considered 'Charm' or 'Enchantment' spells.  Calm & Frenzy, which affect the mind, are typically considered Charm/Enchantment.

 

So for the sake of this, I am considering Illusion in more the traditional sense, meaning you are using it to make subtle improvements to your overall appearance, versus the target's Illusion skill, which allows them to see through petty appearance improving glamors and see the real you, warts and all.

 

I could make the algorithm as complex as I really wanted, but I really don't think I need to go into complex differential equations to mathmatically map out the chances of what is, in reality, just a Yes/No check to play a sex animation in a game.

 

So I'm quite happy with what I am using.

 

That said, as I wrote this, I just realized that I forgot to add in being a Thane of that hold!  Doh!  Need to add that to the list of bonuses to your chance!

[dkatryl]

You'll never get the perfect formula for a seduction. The more natural way would be to give each npc in the game a unique difficulty setting. And then spend your life making patches for the thounsands of mod which add npcs to the game.

 

Maybe, if you like, you could ad a malus to seduce or bribe to all "important npcs" in the vanilla game. I mean the jarls, the most important nobles, guild leaders and maven.

Maybe they already have an High speechcraft so it's already incorporated in your basic formula.

 

That was my thinking on the matter.  The NPC's speechcraft/illusion skill will help work to making each one have a different difficulty level versus the others.

 

Additionally, technically, I should also account for sexual orientation, married, and racial issues.

 

It would be easy to simply make all M+M and F+F more difficult than M+F, but then I'd hear from people saying "But what about the LGBT?!?!".  And then I'd be all like, "Uhm, they don't exist in Skyrim?" and they'd be all like "RABBLE!!!  " and then they would burn my effigy and it would just get all awkward.

 

It would also be easy to make Player Race != Target Race more difficult, probably hear less people complain about that.

 

The married one, eh, not sure how Spaceman did it in his mod.

 

So yeah, I can make it more complex, sure, but at some point, I also want to release the next update.

 

I imagine others want the same.

[MythicMiss]

I wouldn't worry about the racial/gender bias so much. In the vanilla game, all you have to do is put on an Amulet of Mara and just about anyone who is available and likes you, be they male, female, human, elf, lizard, or kitty, is ready and willing to get hitched. 

 

As M'aiq says, "The people of Skyrim are more open-minded about certain things than people in other places."

 

So yeah. Everyone Is Bi... For the Dragonborn.

[dkatryl]

I wouldn't worry about the racial/gender bias so much. In the vanilla game, all you have to do is put on an Amulet of Mara and just about anyone who is available and likes you, be they male, female, human, elf, lizard, or kitty, is ready and willing to get hitched. 

 

As M'aiq says, "The people of Skyrim are more open-minded about certain things than people in other places."

 

So yeah. Everyone Is Bi... For the Dragonborn.

 

Yeah, that was Bethesda avoiding those same torch & pitchfork wielding mobs going "RABBLE!!!  ".  Lol

 

And it's pretty much why I wasn't sweating it.  It would definitely add for variation on chances between different NPC's, but, again, we're ultimately talking about a Yes/No check for StartSex().

 

It isn't like I am doing custom rejections like Romance had.  So yeah, I'm mostly just going to roll on with what I have.  Other than needing to add in the bonus for being a Thane within the appropriate zone, as well probaby making you need to at least be the Thane to try to hit on the local Jarl and whatnot.

[redeyesandlonghair]

 

You'll never get the perfect formula for a seduction. The more natural way would be to give each npc in the game a unique difficulty setting. And then spend your life making patches for the thounsands of mod which add npcs to the game.

 

Maybe, if you like, you could ad a malus to seduce or bribe to all "important npcs" in the vanilla game. I mean the jarls, the most important nobles, guild leaders and maven.

Maybe they already have an High speechcraft so it's already incorporated in your basic formula.

 

That was my thinking on the matter.  The NPC's speechcraft/illusion skill will help work to making each one have a different difficulty level versus the others.

 

Additionally, technically, I should also account for sexual orientation, married, and racial issues.

 

It would be easy to simply make all M+M and F+F more difficult than M+F, but then I'd hear from people saying "But what about the LGBT?!?!".  And then I'd be all like, "Uhm, they don't exist in Skyrim?" and they'd be all like "RABBLE!!!  " and then they would burn my effigy and it would just get all awkward.

 

It would also be easy to make Player Race != Target Race more difficult, probably hear less people complain about that.

 

The married one, eh, not sure how Spaceman did it in his mod.

 

So yeah, I can make it more complex, sure, but at some point, I also want to release the next update.

 

I imagine others want the same.

 

 

Also, ultimately, since the player can't see any of the stuff happening behind the scene, it doesn't actually have much, if any, real effect on the gameplay experience.  You could have 1000 modifiers... or zero, and we would never actually know the difference during play.  So just go for some very basic lore-based multipliers based on race and gender and don't put too much work into something we'll never really know about anyway

 

The real strength of this mod is the active effects that actually add to gameplay, so that's what we all want you to spend your valuable time on

[dkatryl]

 

 

Also, ultimately, since the player can't see any of the stuff happening behind the scene, it doesn't actually have much, if any, real effect on the gameplay experience.  You could have 1000 modifiers... or zero, and we would never actually know the difference during play.  So just go for some very basic lore-based multipliers based on race and gender and don't put too much work into something we'll never really know about anyway

 

The real strength of this mod is the active effects that actually add to gameplay, so that's what we all want you to spend your valuable time on

 

Exactly my point.  Spaceman had ~ half a dozen styles of rejections (wrong gender, race, already married, spoken for, too low of status, etc), which was cool and showed a lot of detail, but came at the cost of not having any voice overs, which I find jarring in the presence of everything else having voice overs.  If I did something like that as well, then absolutely, all of the extra modifiers would have significance.  But in reality, it's just a Pass/Fail check, and the player would never know if it was the fact that the NPC only liked gay lizard sex that made them reject them.

 

I think I may do a minor race/gender check penalty, nothing too stiff, just to add some extra variation depending on the player's race/gender.  An already married NPC would have a much larger penalty to the check, but I'm not sure how to easily check to see if they are married.  Maybe there is a "married" faction?  Dunno.  At work, can't check until tonight.

 

Although, I will make it so that any race/gender check penalty is ignored in the event the NPC is already your spouse, since it is already assumed they are perfectly happy with the race/gender of the player.

[Menesh]

 

I think you should separate Illusion and Speech into different topics. Not everyone would mess with peoples minds to get laid just because they can. Also, separating them opens possibilities for consequences, should the illusion check fail. You know, Nord don't trust mages, and mages that are found trying to get into peoples pants with magic shouldn't get out of this without at least an assault fine.

 

Eh, 'Illusion' is being used by Bethesda for what are tradionally considered 'Charm' or 'Enchantment' spells.  Calm & Frenzy, which affect the mind, are typically considered Charm/Enchantment.

 

So for the sake of this, I am considering Illusion in more the traditional sense, meaning you are using it to make subtle improvements to your overall appearance, versus the target's Illusion skill, which allows them to see through petty appearance improving glamors and see the real you, warts and all.

 

I could make the algorithm as complex as I really wanted, but I really don't think I need to go into complex differential equations to mathmatically map out the chances of what is, in reality, just a Yes/No check to play a sex animation in a game.

 

So I'm quite happy with what I am using.

 

That said, as I wrote this, I just realized that I forgot to add in being a Thane of that hold!  Doh!  Need to add that to the list of bonuses to your chance!

 

 

TES magic schools are a little warped, mostly from cutting and shifting spells between schools in the different games. Like Command used to be a Conjuration spell before Oblivion (after all, before summoning something, you need to be able to control it), which still makes more sense to me then it being an Illusion spell.

If this is how you're applying the Illusion skill, makes sense. And noone can fine you for beautifying yourself up a little, or else they had to ban make-up as well.

I thought you wanted to emulate a charm spell via dialogue, since Beth cut them together with the old disposition system.

[dkatryl]

 

 

TES magic schools are a little warped, mostly from cutting and shifting spells between schools in the different games. Like Command used to be a Conjuration spell before Oblivion (after all, before summoning something, you need to be able to control it), which still makes more sense to me then it being an Illusion spell.

If this is how you're applying the Illusion skill, makes sense. And noone can fine you for beautifying yourself up a little, or else they had to ban make-up as well.

I thought you wanted to emulate a charm spell via dialogue, since Beth cut them together with the old disposition system.

 

Gotcha.  Naw, it's just a passive bonus, just like the listed Speech/Illusion skill perks are passive bonuses, so there is no "Charm" attempt.  However, if I did that, then absolutely, the Speech/Illusion would be separated.

 

In fact, it's not really a bad idea and one I would strongly consider except for something I experienced while working on the whole Speechcraft addition.  Apparently, there seems to be a character limit or something on the amount of dialog options displayed if they all come from the same Quest file.  Originally, I had in (Persuade), (Bribe), (Intimidate) at the end of the respective dialog choice, to help the slower kids in the class keep up with which option was which, and by doing so, it was preventing the FOURTH option, the one where you aborted the attempt without consequence, from displaying.  So then I removed the (Persuade), (Bribe), (Intimidate) tags from the end, which naturally reduced the overall character length, and then magically, the 4th option appeared.

 

So, there ya go.  The things you learn when you fool around in the CK.  Just like that apparently scripts have a max character length before the CK won't allow any more to be added.

[WaxenFigure]

 

I wouldn't worry about the racial/gender bias so much. In the vanilla game, all you have to do is put on an Amulet of Mara and just about anyone who is available and likes you, be they male, female, human, elf, lizard, or kitty, is ready and willing to get hitched. 

 

As M'aiq says, "The people of Skyrim are more open-minded about certain things than people in other places."

 

So yeah. Everyone Is Bi... For the Dragonborn.

 

Yeah, that was Bethesda avoiding those same torch & pitchfork wielding mobs going "RABBLE!!!  ".  Lol

 

And it's pretty much why I wasn't sweating it.  It would definitely add for variation on chances between different NPC's, but, again, we're ultimately talking about a Yes/No check for StartSex().

 

It isn't like I am doing custom rejections like Romance had.  So yeah, I'm mostly just going to roll on with what I have.  Other than needing to add in the bonus for being a Thane within the appropriate zone, as well probaby making you need to at least be the Thane to try to hit on the local Jarl and whatnot.

 

I just figured Bethesda left out a check and decided to call it a feature rather than spend a moment adding that check (which an enterprising modder would have removed anyway).

[dkatryl]

 

I just figured Bethesda left out a check and decided to call it a feature rather than spend a moment adding that check (which an enterprising modder would have removed anyway).

 

I imagine there is some truth there, and especially given how much Bethesda has embraced the modding community by releasing official tools to help mod things, they would have to know it would just be a matter of days before "teh gay s3xx0rz" marriage mods started showing up.

[nhl]

I think I may do a minor race/gender check penalty, nothing too stiff, just to add some extra variation depending on the player's race/gender.  An already married NPC would have a much larger penalty to the check, but I'm not sure how to easily check to see if they are married.  Maybe there is a "married" faction?  Dunno.  At work, can't check until tonight.

 

HasAssociation(AssociationType akAssociation, Actor akOther = None)

is what you're looking for, with "Spouse" (FormID 000142CA) as the Association Type. There's even a Courting one.

 

[Menesh]

One, no two more things I noticed:

 

First, lately my character goes into a crouching state after a grapple attempt. She's not really in sneak mode, only playing the crouch animation and I have to activate and deactivate sneak for her to stand up.

 

Second, I was ambushed by a thief near the Whiterun watchtower (the one that is attacked by a dragon). I beat him down and told him to hand me his stuff. A few seconds later a guard ran over from the watchtower to arrest me. Would be nice if you could add a check so evil victims won't trigger an alarm, at least if I only rob them.

[dkatryl]

One, no two more things I noticed:

 

First, lately my character goes into a crouching state after a grapple attempt. She's not really in sneak mode, only playing the crouch animation and I have to activate and deactivate sneak for her to stand up.

 

Second, I was ambushed by a thief near the Whiterun watchtower (the one that is attacked by a dragon). I beat him down and told him to hand me his stuff. A few seconds later a guard ran over from the watchtower to arrest me. Would be nice if you could add a check so evil victims won't trigger an alarm, at least if I only rob them.

 

Yeah, I've noticed the 'get stuck in crouch mode' thing myself over the last few days.  Could never reliably duplicate it, but it did happen randomly.  Figured maybe the 0.1s delay between the two wasn't enough time to finish the first move and then move into the next every so often, and I couldn't find a decent single animation that can play at any given time when I added the 'visual cues", like the 'jump land' animation that is used when you Shout.

 

Will probably add the default animation after, just in case.

 

As to the latter, yes, that's an oversight.  The "HELP ME!" type stuff was only supposed to be when used against civilans.  I'll look into ways of removing "hostile" faction ways from triggering the guard help.  Probably end up being the same overall check I will have to make to come up with valid bounty targets to turn into guards.

[dkatryl]

 

I think I may do a minor race/gender check penalty, nothing too stiff, just to add some extra variation depending on the player's race/gender.  An already married NPC would have a much larger penalty to the check, but I'm not sure how to easily check to see if they are married.  Maybe there is a "married" faction?  Dunno.  At work, can't check until tonight.

 

HasAssociation(AssociationType akAssociation, Actor akOther = None)

is what you're looking for, with "Spouse" (FormID 000142CA) as the Association Type. There's even a Courting one.

 

I figured there was something readily available, just without access to the CK or digging through google searches, I didn't know what they would be offhand.  Thanks for the info!

[dkatryl]

 

HasAssociation(AssociationType akAssociation, Actor akOther = None)

is what you're looking for, with "Spouse" (FormID 000142CA) as the Association Type. There's even a Courting one.

 

At home now, just tried it, and it worked like a charm! And yep, saw the courting one, which I figured there was because Romance had a "I'm seeing someone right now" rejection.

 

Married will have the biggest penalty, Courting next, Wrong Gender the 3rd, and different race will be the least.  Should give plenty of variations and definitely make some NPC's more difficult than others without going into complex mathematics for a simple binary outcome.

[redeyesandlonghair]

Your creative use of kill move animations made me wonder something... would it be possible to do something where, in the middle of a sex animation, you could trigger a kill move that kills your partner?  Sort of a "sex assassination" thing.

 

I like the idea of using sex to kill people... sort of like a reverse Jack the Ripper... Jackie The Ripper? :3