getting a bit fed up of all the patron links

[gozz72]

surely by now there should be a place for patron and free content I get content creators have to make a bit of side cash but all these links for patron exclusives should have a separate place to the free content but this is just starting to feel a bit over whelming patron here and patron there its just to much I'm sorry if I'm not posting in the right place but this is my 1st post but thought it needed some attention maybe lovers lab could have something like TSR has one day a VIP membership and all VIP member get exclusive content but this has to stop its every where I click on a link and get directed to a patron site sick of it 

[BlackTieAssassin]

They are just as annoying as the posts complaining about them. It is a problem that is in the process of getting solved. 

[Vthena]

Getting redirected to Patreon doesn't always mean you need to pay to download the file.
And from my point of view, it's a good incentive for creators to make even more content. Content that is, or will end up, free to download.

[RUASim21]

You can download sometimes for free on Patreon, you just have to wait until the links open up. I have CC and mods from creators who use Patreon and I'm not a Patron to any of them. 

[Guest]

Same, man. Same.

 

Just so you know, there has been a lot of arguments about this over the years and the site (mods or whoever) just turn a blind eye to this sort of crap.

[Neodarkside]

On 6/1/2021 at 6:45 PM, LittleDoxy said:

Getting redirected to Patreon doesn't always mean you need to pay to download the file.
And from my point of view, it's a good incentive for creators to make even more content. Content that is, or will end up, free to download.

 

Thats all fine and good, only as long as THEY are the content creator. I'm all for supporting Animators and mod makers, but 90% of the CAS Sims being uploaded onto Patreon are using content thats not theirs and making money off it.

[Qalefir]

@gozz72 Do you have examples of content presented as free but which are in fact paid for? (For example, you click on a download link on LL but you can't download it...)

[ChinaTam]

Site Rule.....

 

Quote

We are a free and open community; members requiring payment for mods, support, or putting anything behind a paywall will be removed without warning. Donation buttons/links to support an author is fine, so long as nothing is promised, given, or rewarded other than a sense of satisfaction for supporting an author or owner of content. 

 

I assume this means anything advertised or linked to a paywall from the download post is breaking the site rules and could be removed without warning. A simple link to a Patreon account looks like it is acceptable... Many are hiding exclusive / early access blah blah blah sims behind paywalled links so I guess they should be reported.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, ChinaTam said:

Site Rule.....

 

 

I assume this means anything advertised or linked to a paywall from the download post is breaking the site rules and could be removed without warning. A simple link to a Patreon account looks like it is acceptable... Many are hiding exclusive / early access blah blah blah sims behind paywalled links so I guess they should be reported.

 

 

 

 

The mods/site owner don't care about the rules. This talk has been going on for years and when the topic gets out of control, (ex: There's an uproar and it brings "bad press" to the site) the mods will lock/delete the post. So when this post disappears, you will know why.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Guest
A word

[ChinaTam]

2 minutes ago, SailorPanda said:

The mods/site owner don't care about the rules. This talk has been going on for years and when the topic gets out of control, (ex: There's an uproar and it brings "bad press" to the site) the mods will lock/delete the post. So when this post disappears, you will know why.

 

Oh I didn't know its an age old problem.

[Pamatronic]

2 hours ago, ChinaTam said:

I assume this means anything advertised or linked to a paywall from the download post is breaking the site rules and could be removed without warning. A simple link to a Patreon account looks like it is acceptable... Many are hiding exclusive / early access blah blah blah sims behind paywalled links so I guess they should be reported.

 

TECHNICALLY, yes, they are violating site rules and should be reported, BUT:

 

Do we really care about the 9865568th untalented rando putting generic sims behind a paywall?

I´m assuming here, but i can imagine that the mods simply have better things to do.

 

Another thing are those who are uploading other peoples CC in their paywalled sims, these lowlifes really should be purged from this site.

 

 

(No, I´m not making sims, therefore I´m allowed to have a Patreon link in my signature ? )

[Pamatronic]

2 hours ago, SailorPanda said:

The mods/site owner don't care about the rules. This talk has been going on for years and when the topic gets out of control, (ex: There's an uproar and it brings "bad press" to the site) the mods will lock/delete the post. So when this post disappears, you will know why.

Thats complete BS.

One week ago, there was an "uproar" here because some of those previously mentioned untalented randos kept making empty edits to their uploads in order to keep them at the top of the "recently updated" List.

 

Ashal was quick to respond.

he separated sims out into their dedicated download section, added a new reporting option "Excessive Bumping" and had a warning message prominently displayed that Bumping will result in your content being hidden/removed.

 

"Not caring" is something different in my books.

[Oops19]

On 6/4/2021 at 1:15 AM, Pamatronic said:

Thats complete BS.

One week ago, there was an "uproar" here because some of those previously mentioned untalented randos kept making empty edits to their uploads in order to keep them at the top of the "recently updated" List.

 

Ashal was quick to respond.

he separated sims out into their dedicated download section, added a new reporting option "Excessive Bumping" and had a warning message prominently displayed that Bumping will result in your content being hidden/removed.

 

"Not caring" is something different in my books.

It started early in 2021 or even in 2020. Watching, waiting and hoping that the issue resolves itself is often acceptable. After 6 months it's easy to say that it should have been stopped as soon as possible. So it looked like no one was caring for a very long time.

 

So one ill member infected the others and the virus spread faster than expected.

 

The normal modders producing good content and updating weekly still suffer as their posts are moved to page two or three. If one wants to place ads for its Patreon content here one may pay for instead of using the forum for it.

[Pamatronic]

5 hours ago, Oops19 said:

So one ill member infected the others and the virus spread faster than expected.

I don't really think you can see it like that.

Creating sims is extremely easy (compared to most other games represented on this site) and a low barrier of entry will always attract opportunists. I think it just got more attention recently because of the frequent complaining.

I think separating this extremely overrun part of the sims into its own section is a good solution to the problem. And lets be honest, if all you do is create sims, you cannot really complain about your own "good" content being drowned out by other sims of lesser quality. You are just making sims after all. literally everyone can do that.

 

And for the actual creators it really doesn't matter if your content is on page 1 or 26. If its worthwhile, people will talk about it and find it. some of my older mods for example are way beyond page 20. Still getting likes on it and people engage with it.

And as a user, scrolling through 1-2 pages with content i already know wont kill me.

 

So in conclusion:

Is it annoying? Yes.

would it be nice if it stopped? Yes

Is it an actual problem or a threat to the community as a whole? No, I don't think so.

keep reporting the worst offenders and we should be good.

 

[pseudosane]

On 6/1/2021 at 5:58 PM, gozz72 said:

surely by now there should be a place for patron and free content I get content creators have to make a bit of side cash but all these links for patron exclusives should have a separate place to the free content but this is just starting to feel a bit over whelming patron here and patron there its just to much I'm sorry if I'm not posting in the right place but this is my 1st post but thought it needed some attention maybe lovers lab could have something like TSR has one day a VIP membership and all VIP member get exclusive content but this has to stop its every where I click on a link and get directed to a patron site sick of it 

make all these mods yourself. i can, whats your excuse?

[Oops19]

23 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

Is it an actual problem or a threat to the community as a whole? No, I don't think so.

You come from Skyrim. Imagine that there are 4 modders who use the 1st and 2nd page for their creations. Some with images of content which is Patreon exclusive or not available at all and "New Free Models" as the title even though nothing has been updated.

Would you take your time to create and upload a mod there which no one will take notice of?

It is very unlikely that users look on page two, three or even 12. One day I may update my mod.

[ChinaTam]

In my eyes all the exclusive / early access / whatever Patreon stuff is simply spam, breaks site rules, should be removed, end of.

[Pamatronic]

1 hour ago, ChinaTam said:

In my eyes all the exclusive / early access / whatever Patreon stuff is simply spam, breaks site rules, should be removed, end of

 

I think its not quite as easy as that.

My perspective on this might be a bit warped, since this issue is rather specific to the sims4 and not really a thing in my circles, but lemme give you this example.

 

the amount of money i make from my own patreon is peanuts if i consider the amount of time i sink into it.

Its about the same amount i make on a single day at my actual job, so its technically pure insanity to invest that much time into it.

 

But the thing is, me (and many other modders) see their patreon as a form of recognition, rather than a source of income.

Its impossible to describe, but I still remember the the overwhelming sense of happiness and euphoria when i had my firs 1$ supporter. It really urged me to increase my efforts.

And I know this true for many others.

 

 

Which leaves us with the following "dilemma."

-Either Ban every form of monetary support option, get rid of the opportunists, but at the same time risk alienating many of the genuine talents who make this site worth visiting, OR

-Accept the status quo and put up with some unremarkable sims behind a paywall.

 

 

As far as I´m concerned, this is not a difficult decision.

[Neptunian Sea]

5 minutes ago, Pamatronic said:

 

I think its not quite as easy as that.

My perspective on this might be a bit warped, since this issue is rather specific to the sims4 and not really a thing in my circles, but lemme give you this example.

 

the amount of money i make from my own patreon is peanuts if i consider the amount of time i sink into it.

Its about the same amount i make on a single day at my actual job, so its technically pure insanity to invest that much time into it.

 

But the thing is, me (and many other modders) see their patreon as a form of recognition, rather than a source of income.

Its impossible to describe, but I still remember the the overwhelming sense of happiness and euphoria when i had my firs 1$ supporter. It really urged me to increase my efforts.

And I know this true for many others.

 

 

Which leaves us with the following "dilemma."

-Either Ban every form of monetary support option, get rid of the opportunists, but at the same time risk alienating many of the genuine talents who make this site worth visiting, OR

-Accept the status quo and put up with some unremarkable sims behind a paywall.

 

 

As far as I´m concerned, this is not a difficult decision.

Based on the average SIms fan, I'm going to say this as nicely as possible. It is not our fault you made the decision to make a career out of creating sims/mods/animations. It is not our fault you make peanuts from doing this. This "job," as you have made the act of making sims, is supposed to be at most a hobby. And even if you argue this can be as worthy of a career as a doctor, this site wasn't made with the primary purpose to be your personal piggy bank. It's supposed to be a place to offer FREE game enhancements for The Sims, Skyrim and any other games offered on this site. I'm not saying to not make money from gullible and ignorant people willing to pay money for something they can do themselves (making sims), but don't get made when people are upset at you for making 20 sims behind a paywall while abusing the site's rules by posting only 1 sim while constantly updating your post to advertise these paywalled sims. If this comes across as rude to you, I'm sorry, but I've grown tired of seeing people pennypinching in places not made for it. Make all the money you want from all the ignorant people in the world, but why do it here? You can still have your Patreon and your precious money while posting free things for this site if it's really that much of an issue for you.

[Pamatronic]

5 hours ago, Oops19 said:

You come from Skyrim. Imagine that there are 4 modders who use the 1st and 2nd page for their creations. Some with images of content which is Patreon exclusive or not available at all and "New Free Models" as the title even though nothing has been updated.

I know what you are trying to say, but come on, I just looked at the sims download sections and this is grossly exaggerated.

 

 

5 hours ago, Oops19 said:

Would you take your time to create and upload a mod there which no one will take notice of?

It is very unlikely that users look on page two, three or even 12. One day I may update my mod.

I think you are greatly overestimating the significance of the "recently updated" List.

 

Another example:

My most successful mod is categorized as a modders resource. That means it NEVER shows up on this list. However, That hasn't stopped it from gathering more likes and downloads than the majority of the Stuff on page 1 and 2 of the sims downloads. Even had other people asking me for permission to incorporate it into their own mods.

 

If you have something unique to offer, people will eventually find it. Vast majority of mods I use myself were discovered via the search function after i saw them mentioned somewhere else.

 

5 hours ago, Oops19 said:

It is very unlikely that users look on page two, three or even 12.

I know that people are lazy, but the aren't THAT lazy. If they see the same stuff again and again on the first page, they will eventually go a few pages deeper.

 

 

Ultimately, this discussion could go on forever, but I want to leave you with this:

 

Your own mod has more than 10.000 downloads and a lot of likes and people thanking you for making it.

your efforts brought enjoyment to literally thousands of other people. Think about how few can claim this about themselves.

Sure, people like looking at numbers and seeing the spammers having such high ones is frustrating, But your own work is important nonetheless. Don´t let anyone take that away from you.

 

[ChinaTam]

6 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

 

But the thing is, me (and many other modders) see their patreon as a form of recognition, rather than a source of income.

Its impossible to describe, but I still remember the the overwhelming sense of happiness and euphoria when i had my firs 1$ supporter. It really urged me to increase my efforts.

And I know this true for many others.

 

 

Which leaves us with the following "dilemma."

-Either Ban every form of monetary support option, get rid of the opportunists, but at the same time risk alienating many of the genuine talents who make this site worth visiting, OR

-Accept the status quo and put up with some unremarkable sims behind a paywall.

 

 

As far as I´m concerned, this is not a difficult decision.

 

 

I totally understand it's nice to be "thanked" for your efforts and a simple Patreon link I think is fine for those who wish to throw a few bucks that way. I'm just not for all this aggressive marketing, look at me, rubbish. If you want to hide sims behind a paywall then tell your Patreons by all means, privatly!

 

 

 

[Simsy McSimsface]

10 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

Which leaves us with the following "dilemma."

-Either Ban every form of monetary support option, get rid of the opportunists, but at the same time risk alienating many of the genuine talents who make this site worth visiting, OR

-Accept the status quo and put up with some unremarkable sims behind a paywall.

 

As far as I´m concerned, this is not a difficult decision.

I totally agree with you on this. 
"Low talent" patreon opportunists are a nuisance, but their presence is a "price" I'm willing to pay so that Turbo, Nisa, wild_guy, YrSa, ATrois, and all the other actually talented people can get a chance to be reimbursed for their hard work - and yes, it is a job to do what they do on this level - and for continuously making my game better.

Sure we could enforce the rules with an iron fist, but IMHO it would not just get rid of the "scum", but also drive away real talent from the site, and we would be stuck with nothing much more than "easel painting recolor no.32434" and the such.

Just my 2 cents...

[Oops19]

19 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

Ultimately, this discussion could go on forever...

I totally agree.
The download section has been cleared, so for me it looks much better. Also Patreon-exclusive sims should no longer be advertised on https://www.loverslab.com/files/ hopefully.

I could bump my mod, anyhow having it in the footer, like you do, may be the better option. It still has a few issues and there are some things I need to do differently for a beta version.

 

 

Adding a link to a Patreon page may still lead to account removal according to the rules. The moderators could apply this rule any time. So I never added a Patreon link. Just like IRL with nearly everyone driving faster than allowed doesn't mean that breaking the rule is allowed. If one adjusted this rule to give members a hint of what they can do would help.