toys Shout Like a Virgin Evolved SE & LE

[APL3]

Hi ! Thanks for this great mod, I am testing it to add to my Skyrim VR guide

 

I tried from a clean save, and I run into this issue: to get my first shout, I went into Bleak Fall, and the wall does not trigger (neither does the boss, I think it only spawn after you use the wall ?)

 

Animation from standing stone works (well, sort of, but VR engine issue) but the wall is simply inactive.

 

I first imagined it was due to the alternate start mode I used (I originally overwrote Skyrim Unbound's wall script with yours) so I tried again, a new full steam reinstall from scratch and new save. God I can't stand this original opening anymore...

 

Second time was as clean as it gets, nothing could interfere with SLaVE SE. Yet, same issue. Totally unresponsive wall.

 

Is it a known issue or should I consider it VR specific ?

 

All 3 Wall script ( WordWallTrigger02Script WordWallTriggerBleakFallsScript and WordWallTriggerScript) in my data folder are from SLaVE SE

Edited August 27, 2021 by APL3

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, APL3 said:

Hi ! Thanks for this great mod, I am testing it to add to my Skyrim VR guide

 

I tried from a clean save, and I run into this issue: to get my first shout, I went into Bleak Fall, and the wall does not trigger (neither does the boss, I think it only spawn after you use the wall ?)

 

Animation from standing stone works (well, sort of, but VR engine issue) but the wall is simply inactive.

 

I first imagined it was due to the alternate start mode I used (I originally overwrote Skyrim Unbound's wall script with yours) so I tried again, a new full steam reinstall from scratch and new save. God I can't stand this original opening anymore...

 

Second time was as clean as it gets, nothing could interfere with SLaVE SE. Yet, same issue. Totally unresponsive wall.

 

Is it a known issue or should I consider it VR specific ?

 

All 3 Wall script ( WordWallTrigger02Script WordWallTriggerBleakFallsScript and WordWallTriggerScript) in my data folder are from SLaVE SE

 

This mod has no issues working with alternate start mods.

 

Word walls... Note that you can test on any word wall, you will likely get the same result. Definitely not a known issue. Those 3 word wall scripts have remained unchanged for 4 years. This is the first report of them not working, other than a few cases where it became very obvious the user had a corrupt save.  Can you consider it VR specific? Seems to be so, if you figure your test is black and white, but I cannot be sure.

 

I've never tried this mod with VR. Trying to bring it out of beta for SE and Toys now. VR would be a whole other big project I expect.

 

I can tell you that since this mod does so many things, getting it to work properly for SE was a big deal. For beta, things had to be turned off. I have no experience with VR, but I suspect that there's even a wider gap of difference going from SE to VR (compared to going from LE to SE). Sounds like the first 2 major things you touched are broken by VR  . You should expect many more. How about the cosmetics? Do you have a halo on your head working? Is there a virgin tattoo on your ass?

 

Essentially you are testing Toys Framework at the same time. Will be interesting to see if it has any VR problems. It will be less susceptible due to the nature of its job. But for SLaVE, I don't think you can expect it to work in VR very well.

[APL3]

Thanks for your answer !

 

There is at least potential for incompatibility with some alternate start mods that have the possibility of making you non-dragonborn. Having the PC potentially unable to shout  requires a trigger check on walls, and therefore a modification in the wall script.

 

For the purpose of writing VR guide, I always try mods in a vacuum, with the bare minimum required mods, save of course alternate start mod as I just can't bear the opening any more. To be extra clean, I retried a new game without alternate start mod with the same result.

 

I have yet to find other issue in VR with SLaVE. Of course, there is a lot of common problems that are not specific to this mods (like having to manually disable/re enable VR control before and after each scene, alignement issue...).

 

Except for alignement issue, everything else is working, from halo and horn to tatoo.

 

There isn't that much of a difference between SE and VR, VR is essentially an obsolete build of SE with VR support hacked in. Most of the compatibility issues are taken care of by the libs you're using.

 

As nearly all of VR issue come from the way the PC/camera is handled, if you wanted to be extra nice to VR players you could add the option have all the scene when the player isn't in control (except for sexlab, sexlab scene work great in VR) happening to your female follower. I'm sure there is a RP way to justify this.

[APL3]

Did some more testing:

 

- Saving just before entering Bleak Fall with SLaVE SE: word can't be learned

- Removing just SlaVE SE : word can be learned

- Modifying the SLaVE SE mod by removing the 3 wall script, then reinstalling the mod: word can be learned (but of course just that... I assume an animation should have triggered and didn't ?)

 

if I remove the 3 wall script, will I encountere other issues going forward ? Or do I just loose the "loving the wall" animation ?

 

If the latter, do you allow me to temporarily share the modified archive without the wall script in the VR section until a better fix that this workaround is found ?

 

edit:

 

If it helps: When it doesn't work, I do get the blue vortex effect until I am about 1 meter away from the wall. then it just disable itself if I try to go closer. When it works, the blue vortex effect continues until I am touching the wall (and even maybe half a second still afterward ?), and won't disable itself before I get the notification that I learned a new word of power.

Edited August 28, 2021 by APL3

[Kitty_Forest]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:47 PM, VirginMarie said:

If you just exit (not choose a dialogue option), then they will indeed follow you around until you DO pick one. This is working as intended. 

 

where's the option that you talked about that tells them to screw off?

[VirginMarie]

2 hours ago, Kitty_Forest said:

where's the option that you talked about that tells them to screw off?

 

Does not exist for your first meeting with them. Initially I thought you must be talking about later scenes, where is does have it.

 

You first meeting is critical to the main quest progressing, so it needs you to make a choice. There's an option in MCM to put the Tales and Tallows quest on hold, so they never come till you take the hold off, but you'd have to select this before this point.

[VirginMarie]

5 hours ago, APL3 said:

(like having to manually disable/re enable VR control before and after each scene, alignement issue...).

 

Can you describe this. What do you see? What's the consequence? What is meant by "alignment issue"? Does it relate at all to the freeCam (which you can turn off in Toys MCM)?

 

5 hours ago, APL3 said:

As nearly all of VR issue come from the way the PC/camera is handled, if you wanted to be extra nice to VR players you could add the option have all the scene when the player isn't in control (except for sexlab, sexlab scene work great in VR) happening to your female follower. I'm sure there is a RP way to justify this.

 

That's not a solution. You will see why in my replies below. There will be a better way, that is much less intrusive to the mod. The solution must be where the animations scenes play, and play correctly, for VR.

 

5 hours ago, APL3 said:

Modifying the SLaVE SE mod by removing the 3 wall script, then reinstalling the mod: word can be learned (but of course just that... I assume an animation should have triggered and didn't ?)

 

Yes the animation is the opening scene you see in the video, on the main page for this mod.

 

5 hours ago, APL3 said:

if I remove the 3 wall script, will I encountere other issues going forward ? Or do I just loose the "loving the wall" animation ?

 

Having the word walls not working for the mod, is a show stopper for the mod.

 

Having many of the animation scenes not work, is a show stopper for the mod.

 

For the one word wall you speak of, skipping the animation is fine, you just miss out on the eye candy. A little bit further into the main quest, skipping the word wall scene would mean you don't earn the love shout and the main quest line would halt. The love shout is a prime feature of the mod, and you need the love shout to activate things in later quests too. So removing those scripts is death to the mod.

 

5 hours ago, APL3 said:

 

If the latter, do you allow me to temporarily share the modified archive without the wall script in the VR section until a better fix that this workaround is found ?

 

I love your enthusiasm and optimism for the mod working with VR. But you've only scratched the surface. You've not found all the "show stopper" points in the mod yet. There's dozens of different non-sexlab animation scene's that, can't be skipped. There's going to be FAR more than just the word wall. From what you are describing, you've seen about 5% of the mod's content, and I'm not at all kidding. Multiple the time you spent by about 20, and that's how much more testing is needed. 

 

Then we need to look at the foundation its based on... Toys. Toys must work for VR, before SLaVE can work for VR. Maybe its only going to be animation alignment like you said, but Toys is very animation centric too. What happens when she has a Toys Spontaneous Orgasm? The Exhausted Scene? Signing when gagged? Blind walking and falling? Animations for bound wrists? There's many more.

 

But here's a key point you've said... "Sexlab works great in VR".

If that's the case I can do whatever Sexlab did. Do you have any idea what it is that makes Sexlab scenes work?

[Kitty_Forest]

3 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Does not exist for your first meeting with them. Initially I thought you must be talking about later scenes, where is does have it.

 

You first meeting is critical to the main quest progressing, so it needs you to make a choice. There's an option in MCM to put the Tales and Tallows quest on hold, so they never come till you take the hold off, but you'd have to select this before this point.

how are you supposed to stay a virgin then if you dont want to deal with the pain option? and no it doesnt show up in later scenes either

[VirginMarie]

2 minutes ago, Kitty_Forest said:

how are you supposed to stay a virgin then if you dont want to deal with the pain option? and no it doesnt show up in later scenes either

 

You will find that you don't lose your virginity during love scenes, because the chastity belt stays on, if you are a virgin.

[Kitty_Forest]

9 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

You will find that you don't lose your virginity during love scenes, because the chastity belt stays on, if you are a virgin.

i still lost my virginity during the love scene and yes i had all the chastity stuff on but that was the first time i ever used the mod and i havent seen it happen again because i havent clicked love ever again after that

[VirginMarie]

28 minutes ago, Kitty_Forest said:

i still lost my virginity during the love scene and yes i had all the chastity stuff on but that was the first time i ever used the mod and i havent seen it happen again because i havent clicked love ever again after that

 

If you lose virginity, you will get it back again. Some of the content of the mod will be missed if you never lose it... this mod is more about losing virginity, than keeping it  .

 

But if it happens again with a chastity belt on, lets see if we can trouble shoot and fix that. Note that there is one exception to this... the Lily guys, they will remove the chastity belt and make certain you lose virginity.

Edited August 28, 2021 by VirginMarie

[APL3]

20 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

But here's a key point you've said... "Sexlab works great in VR".

If that's the case I can do whatever Sexlab did. Do you have any idea what it is that makes Sexlab scenes work?

 

Wow, that would be great if you could ! Usually mod creator don't really want to get involved in VR, as they are either not interested in VR or don't want to touch that obsolete/hacky build of Skyrim.

 

The mod that makes Sexlab work great is this one: https://mega.nz/file/cc4HXZTL#B6uKR_gu1eUP4FTuV0n-rs92UJKArmkH_SDx-aEsiU0

 

It interact with another mod called VRIK, that adds a player body in the game (everyone use VRIK, in vanilla the player has no body, it's just a pair of floating hands holding weapon, can of like games like Quake rendered stuff in single player in the 90's )

 

This is the thread for both the version of VRIK and the Sexlab Compatibility mod :

 

 

The two issues one usually encounters in VR are:

 

1) Player animation conflict

 

During normal gameplay, VRIK reads your controller and headset location in real life, and adjust your body position accordingly. Like, if you have CBPC/HDT installed you can fondle your own breast or naked NPC ass and it reacts.

 

However, this obviously override any animation you want happen on the player: kneeling, stuck in zap furniture, bound wrist or ankles... As a matter of fact it can look rather silly and totally kill your suspension of disbelief.

 

VRIK has an option to relinquish player's body control to the animation system. But it's a 10 steps process or so: open MCM > VRIK > uncheck individually all the body parts (each hand, each forearm, body posture.... and then close MCM).

 

You have to go through it every time you either get a non-sexlab animation or get a restraint to a specific body part, you'd typilly redo the whole process constantly during normal playthrough.

 

SL VR patch mostly fixes the issue by disabling VRIK body control before a scene and re-enabling it afterward.

 

 

 

2) Body angle alignment

In VR, when the player body needs to be facing a specific direction, it never really works. Again, except for Sexlab VR patch which does a great job and is always correct. For instance in your mod, if I use the stone pillar, I'd have the dildo coming in and out the stone as it should, the player body playing the correct animation (provided I disabled VRIK body control), but the dildo would jab in, say, the general direction of my  character's shoulder.

 

The issue seem to be that you can't really rotate a VR body, nor lock it in a specific angle. If I am in a zap furniture for instance, I am correctly unable to move toward somewhere, but I can still rotate 360 degres. Typically, I'd be floating in the air in a "locked in pilory" animation.

 

Also, since you can't really get out of a 1st person view camera, you miss most of the detail. In the stone pillar animation for instance, to get my ass more or less pointed toward the dildos means I can't really see it. Just like in real life: imagine you're in such situation, you wouldn't really see much would you ?

 

SL VR patch fixes that as well, by fully dissociating the camera from the player body and giving you the choice of locked/force 1st person view or free  3rd person view. Or you could check how the "selfie" feature of VRIK does it as well (if you move your hand in the air like you're taking a selfie, your body appear in front of you. You can even rotate it by turning your hand, regardless of where you're looking)

 

Now, all this is easier said than done. Many of us have tried to replicate Sexlab VRIK 3rd person or fixed 1st person camera, so far no one managed.

 

 

---

 

In VRIK patch, the MCM options that deals with 1) player animation conflict are in VRIK > VR > Mod support setting > Enable X (with X being the various body part). It toggles between VR controlled body part (enabled) or Animation-controlled body part (disabled)

Edited August 29, 2021 by APL3

[Kitty_Forest]

20 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

If you lose virginity, you will get it back again. Some of the content of the mod will be missed if you never lose it... this mod is more about losing virginity, than keeping it  .

 

But if it happens again with a chastity belt on, lets see if we can trouble shoot and fix that. Note that there is one exception to this... the Lily guys, they will remove the chastity belt and make certain you lose virginity.

it was a virgin ghost i'm sure of it

[VirginMarie]

6 hours ago, APL3 said:

Wow, that would be great if you could ! Usually mod creator don't really want to get involved in VR, as they are either not interested in VR or don't want to touch that obsolete/hacky build of Skyrim.

 

Well I have not said I would do it .  It's what would be required for this mod to be useable at all, in VR. And that's a bigger deal than the work done (and getting completed now) for converting to SE. 

 

If I did it, I would build the feature for starting VR scenes in Toys, and SLaVE would just use it, along with any mod in in the "Toys Family". Toys is already where scenes initialize, and freecam is there, and checks for busy states are there, so mods using Toys can play nice with each other.

 

Your info is very helpful, and I've saved a link to your post, in my wish list for SLaVE. I don't have VR hardware, and that would be required for such a project, so yes I'd have to be very interested in VR. Right now I'm curious, but I know my husband is more than just curious and might get into it, so it can be his fault we waste money on the hardware  . So it might happen, but won't be anytime that soon.

 

Scenes in SLaVE are more diverse in nature than a sexlab scene. Like a word wall behaves very different than making love to a shrine or a dragon, in terms of the crazy shit you need to do with your camera. So whatever was done in that Sexlab patch, I might have to do twice as much.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by VirginMarie

[APL3]

Looking forward to it then ! Maybe you can open a Patreon like Expired did, I think it turned out ok for him, he quickly had enough to get an HMD. A full Oculus rift with 2 sensors and 2 hands is ~120 euros used now, and it's the de facto standard, if a bit obsolete.

 

These 2 guys, Prinyo and Jaydrizzle, work on making VR compatibiliy patch. Maybe worth discussing with them if the day come that you wanna be serious with VR:  https://www.loverslab.com/topic/166788-skyrimvr-patches-vrik-integrations-for-zazdd-camera-spinning-fixes-other-qol-patches/

 

You should definitely check VR out if you get the chance, just seeing your character wearing DD or Toys in VR in "selfie" mode is impressively amazing.

 

edit:

 

Tried to disable all VRIK control (posture, lock angle, lock position...) before triggering the stone scene. Tried messing with all the settings really, or the selfie mod. Nothing make it better.

Edited August 29, 2021 by APL3

[m0rdr3d0]

Is there a way to disable/remove Virgin Hat from the leveled list? It seems that for some reason it replaces the typical Necromancer Hood and all necromancers in game look ridiculous - they weren't known for good fashion choices before, but in this hat every necromancer looks like a total idiot, and I would like to bring the regular hood back, but I can't figure out how (not very familiar with SSEEdit).

[VirginMarie]

31 minutes ago, m0rdr3d0 said:

Is there a way to disable/remove Virgin Hat from the leveled list? It seems that for some reason it replaces the typical Necromancer Hood and all necromancers in game look ridiculous - they weren't known for good fashion choices before, but in this hat every necromancer looks like a total idiot, and I would like to bring the regular hood back, but I can't figure out how (not very familiar with SSEEdit).

 

SLaVE only does a "Halloween" looking hat on Necros in the 2 dungeons used for its Tales & Tallows quest. I don't remember exactly how I did it, but not in the leveled list, and it's not at all effecting every necromancer.

 

If I recall correctly, I also added a few necromancers that are not normally there. Again, its just the 2 locations. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by VirginMarie

[La furie du Dragon]

I tried to install this mod, but it keeps saying that an incorrect version of Toys is installed, I use 1.2 ?

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, La furie du Dragon said:

I tried to install this mod, but it keeps saying that an incorrect version of Toys is installed, I use 1.2 ?

 

It can only be one of these:

• You really don't have Toys v1.2 installed (just somehow you think you do). You can see the version number it reports in the Toys MCM first tab
• Corrupt save (did not start a new game when you first installed Toys, or broke the Golden Rule in some other fashion)

If this does not help, I could likely see the issue if you attach your papyrus log. "How to get the log" is in the FAQs if you need it (same link as golden rule above). Grab a log that is after you... start up, load your save, see the error for incorrect version, then exit to desktop.

Edited September 1, 2021 by VirginMarie

[m0rdr3d0]

5 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

SLaVE only does a "Halloween" looking hat on Necros in the 2 dungeons used for its Tales & Tallows quest. I don't remember exactly how I did it, but not in the leveled list, and it's not at all effecting every necromancer.

 

If I recall correctly, I also added a few necromancers that are not normally there. Again, its just the 2 locations. 

Well, I just finished Potema's questline and in both those dungeons necros were wearing Virgin Witch Hats. Unless you used exactly these two dungeons for your quest (I haven't seen it yet), there is something wrong with this hat.

[VirginMarie]

11 minutes ago, m0rdr3d0 said:

Well, I just finished Potema's questline and in both those dungeons necros were wearing Virgin Witch Hats. Unless you used exactly these two dungeons for your quest (I haven't seen it yet), there is something wrong with this hat.

 

Those are the 2 dungeons used by the Tales & Tallows quest.

[La furie du Dragon]

8 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

It can only be one of these:

• You really don't have Toys v1.2 installed (just somehow you think you do). You can see the version number it reports in the Toys MCM first tab
• Corrupt save (did not start a new game when you first installed Toys, or broke the Golden Rule in some other fashion)

If this does not help, I could likely see the issue if you attach your papyrus log. "How to get the log" is in the FAQs if you need it (same link as golden rule above). Grab a log that is after you... start up, load your save, see the error for incorrect version, then exit to desktop.

I think I broke the golden rule by wanting to fix some issues with other mods, I will try to start a new save

[La furie du Dragon]

The mod works, but I don't get any animations, perhaps I did the Bodyslide step wrong, could you tell me exactly how to do it well ? Thanks

[VirginMarie]

2 hours ago, La furie du Dragon said:

The mod works, but I don't get any animations, perhaps I did the Bodyslide step wrong, could you tell me exactly how to do it well ? Thanks

 

Bodyslide has nothing to do with animations. Its the "fit" of toys to your chosen body shape that Bodyslide takes care of.

 

Bodyslide steps, are  FAQ #11

 

Animations most often are not doing the step for FNIS correctly. Troubleshooting #3 for Animations problems.

[La furie du Dragon]

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Bodyslide has nothing to do with animations. Its the "fit" of toys to your chosen body shape that Bodyslide takes care of.

 

Bodyslide steps, are  FAQ #11

 

Animations most often are not doing the step for FNIS correctly. Troubleshooting #3 for Animations problems.

When I click on "Update FNIS Behavior", I get this, is it good ?