Fallout 4 outfits - cloth physics question

[Bazinga]

When I save most of the outfit projects from lazman's Female Replacer I get this:

 

Wtf does this even mean?

The outfits already have weight paints for bones from the female skeleton and I don't see any additional bones or physics related stuff anywhere in the outfit shape files or in the mod folder.

For now I just check the box and save it. But I'm wondering what kind of 'physics' this is refering to. I have a strong feeling that this is some sort of leftover from stuff that was used years ago and doesn't even work anymore.

 

Anyone got an idea?

[Blaze69]

That's vanilla cloth physics data, usually from stuff like skirts or long coats (which is what that physics system is used for in vanilla, alongside long-ish hairs and ponytails and such). If you load an outfit that includes such data, OS will ask you if you want to include it in the exported nif whenever you try to save it.

 

I think it does not clear when loading a new outfit unless you load a different reference or do the "Unload Project..." thing, so if you are loading several outfits one after one, just having one with physics in the mix will make the popup show up on every save attempt afterwards. Doing one of the two things above should get rid of it, though.

 

Just make sure to tick the box when exporting the nif it was originally included in (the popup gives you the name so it's easy to ID), and either leave it unticked for any subsequent nifs you edit or make sure to do "Unload Project" once you are done with it but before you load the next one so it doesn't remain in your Outfit Studio instance.

[Bazinga]

Thanks.

Makes me think that lazman didn't know about unloading projects either so most of it might be accidentially attached to outfits it doesn't belong to.

I hope it doesn't matter if it's attached to the wrong outfit. So far I didn't notice anything weird but I didn't really focus on physics.

 

Also I'm sure that this didn't happen during my 1.75 conversions, because I generally close Outfit Studio after each project and reopen it for the next. Guess I must have learned that from someone who knew about issues like that.

[Bazinga]

Okay, so now I tested the vanilla outfit conversions included in Fusion Girl 1.7

At least a few of them also have broken clothes physics.

I didn't really notice it before but the vanilla outfits actually have really nice physics, like how robes swing and how the ends of the belt move on the bathrobe.

The conversions for Irma's outfit and the bathrobe coming with Fusion Girl are completely broken in that regard, nothing moves there except for body bone weight dependent physics, and the robe clips into itself while moving.

 

...

Fuck. I will see if I can repair this for lazman's outfits. Not that there is much in there that could actually swing.

Maybe it's not fixable though and switching bodies always breaks the clothes physics.

I will test a little more.

 

edit:

The reason it's broken is because while the cloth bones are there they lost their weight paints on the way from the vanilla outfit to the current state of FG conversions.

[Bazinga]

Here, I added the missing cloth bone weight paints to the bathrobe in case anyone wants to compare:

Fusion Girl Vanilla Bathrobe - fixed physics.7z

Load after Fusion Girl 1.78 and then rebuild the bathrobe.

Difference like night and day.

 

It's a little too much for me to extract all these outfit meshes from the Fallout 4 ba2 archive and then add them to the FG 1.7 conversions to transfer the weight paints.

So I probably won't do it.

 

The cloth physics data in lazman's outfits on the other hand is completely useless since he removed the cloth bones...

I'll probably gonna try to readd them to a few outfits (not sure if I can use the same BSClothExtraData as in the vanilla outfits or not) and completely remove the stuff from the rest.

[Indarello]

3 hours ago, Bazinga said:

Okay, so now I tested the vanilla outfit conversions included in Fusion Girl 1.7

At least a few of them also have broken clothes physics.

I didn't really notice it before but the vanilla outfits actually have really nice physics, like how robes swing and how the ends of the belt move on the bathrobe.

The conversions for Irma's outfit and the bathrobe coming with Fusion Girl are completely broken in that regard, nothing moves there except for bone weight dependent physics, and the robe clips into itself while moving.

 

...

Fuck. I will see if I can repair this for lazman's outfits. Not that there is much in there that could actually swing.

Maybe it's not fixable though and switching bodies always breaks the clothes physics.

I will test a little more.

 

edit:

The reason it's broken is because while the cloth bones are there they lost their weight paints on the way from the vanilla outfit to the current state of FG conversions.

I was trying to search FG proper dress bones to use as example and have not found any, and I was trying a lot of cbbe dresses and also have not found any good examples.

All of them cliping in some poses (run, crouching...) and stretching (better use monopainted dress), but if you will achieve some succes with this it will be cool.

[Bazinga]

13 minutes ago, Indarello said:

I was trying to search FG proper dress bones to use as example and have not found any, and I was trying a lot of cbbe dresses and also have not found any good examples.

All of them cliping in some poses (run, crouching...) and stretching (better use monopainted dress), but if you will achieve some succes with this it will be cool.

What I used for the bathrobe was the original mesh from the Fallout 4 meshes ba2 archive.

Transfering the weights from that to the FG conversion in FG 1.78 actually works.

 

Then I also had to redo the zap slider because whoever did that was probably not used to seeing the robe opening at the legs when the character is moving. So with cloth physics the legs were cut off too low. ^^

[VonHelton]

4 hours ago, Bazinga said:

Okay, so now I tested the vanilla outfit conversions included in Fusion Girl 1.7

At least a few of them also have broken clothes physics.

I didn't really notice it before but the vanilla outfits actually have really nice physics, like how robes swing and how the ends of the belt move on the bathrobe.

The conversions for Irma's outfit and the bathrobe coming with Fusion Girl are completely broken in that regard, nothing moves there except for bone weight dependent physics, and the robe clips into itself while moving.

 

...

Fuck. I will see if I can repair this for lazman's outfits. Not that there is much in there that could actually swing.

Maybe it's not fixable though and switching bodies always breaks the clothes physics.

I will test a little more.

 

edit:

The reason it's broken is because while the cloth bones are there they lost their weight paints on the way from the vanilla outfit to the current state of FG conversions.

Izzat why some combat boots are acting weird?

 

[Bazinga]

Define weird.

[izzyknows]

2 hours ago, Bazinga said:

Define weird.

VonHelton

 

LOL

[Bazinga]

On 11/19/2020 at 6:13 PM, Bazinga said:

Here, I added the missing cloth bone weight paints to the bathrobe in case anyone wants to compare:

Fusion Girl Vanilla Bathrobe - fixed physics.7z 3.43 MB · 3 downloads

Load after Fusion Girl 1.78 and then rebuild the bathrobe.

Difference like night and day.

 

It's a little too much for me to extract all these outfit meshes from the Fallout 4 ba2 archive and then add them to the FG 1.7 conversions to transfer the weight paints.

So I probably won't do it.

 

The cloth physics data in lazman's outfits on the other hand is completely useless since he removed the cloth bones...

I'll probably gonna try to readd them to a few outfits (not sure if I can use the same BSClothExtraData as in the vanilla outfits or not) and completely remove the stuff from the rest.

I tinkered around with this some more.

Here's the final result, a slightly skimpier vanilla bathrobe.

Vanilla Bathrobe slightly skimpy - Fusion Girl.7z

 

Had to change some textures to get the seam color right.

 

It's not perfect and the legs are clipping through the robe sometimes.

I can't do anything more about that though (reduced a few weight paints for cloth bones by hand), with the added cloth bones there are just too many bones and there is some built-in limitation for how much weight paint can actually be added to mesh vertices.

 

That's why these vanilla cloth physics are broken for at least some if not all the Fusion Girl outfit conversions that have cloth bone physics by the way.

They copied the weight paints from the Fusion Girl body to these outfits and by doing that deleted the weight paints for many of the cloth bones (because the weight paint limit was exceeded).

@TheBottomhoodofSteel

[TheBottomhoodofSteel]

Fallout 4 has a 4 weights to a vertex limit, and only has a hard limit on animation (As in used in idles/animations)

Havok bones are a special case where you not only have to copy over the weight, but the extra data, but I've noticed that it sometimes doesn't copy consistently, in that case you have to transfer it with Nifskope. I'll get with Boce and check over the outfits to see what we can do about patching the outfits to fix the busted Havok Data or missing bones. For the most part the Vanilla refits are not the full 100% Final versions and there's plans for improvements, but for now they serve their purpose for getting the NPC clothing working without needing another mod to supplement it or to use CBBE to transition NPCs to using FG

 

FG1.8 is a final update to the main body (I'm still investigating one issue I want to fix for working vagina collisions (I had beta'd for a couple weeks in advance), but otherwise the sliders, shape and UVs are in decent positions and I have done what I can with it to finalize all the 3B work I did). 

 

1.8 does not require any clothing updates unless youAre using the clothing in sex mods (Where the vagina is showing, as I fixed a labia slider to do something functional instead of nothing noticable, but even then if you don't care about an "innie" vageen, it's pointless to have. )

 

[VonHelton]

On 11/19/2020 at 2:34 PM, Bazinga said:

Define weird.

Deformed. Even animated in some instances.

 

[Bazinga]

Dunno, I never noticed something like that.

Maybe give an example for an outfit with deformed boots.

[VonHelton]

18 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

Dunno, I never noticed something like that.

Maybe give an example for an outfit with deformed boots.

I'll try to get a video......Really weird.