Cursed Loot, PoP and Sexlab Surival Compatibility

[Nymra]

Ok guys @Inte @Monoman1 @Kimy I really love all of your these mods almost same as much and really do not want to have to choose which one to keep

@all of you three. Sorry for doing it this way but I did not know where to start and since I suspect this is a threeway (lol) problem I saw no use in making individual attempts in three different Support Threads. 

But I am currently testing the Cursed Loot + Prison Overhaul Patched + Sexlab Survival Experience and just had a jackpot somehow....

 

1 - while the POP scene was running a guard started an arrest dialogue out of the blue (fun fact: they never do it in other situations. NEVER. even when they are supposed to)

This all ended with all guards becoming aggressive, killing the PC (Essential player saved this from blowing up)

After the PC recovered the guards "forgot" and the POP Scene continued. phew....

2 - while in the POP scene next to the chest ALL THREE MODS decided to go all nuts. 
3 - Guard Dialogue appeard again (I suspect DCUR interfering here)

4 - Sexlab Survival decided the guards want a little chat, equipping an armbinder... 
5 - POP trying to get the imprisonment to continue... 

Eventually ALL guards went to attack the PC again and then just to start the imprison dialogue again...

 

Also in general guards do NOTHING even when the PC has high Bounty and running around in the town. 
They dont chase, they dont talk. When I talk to them they say "Hey, I know you" thats it. 
Only in some rare cases (like when having sex or when I am in scenes) somehow they start to be "interested". 
I could not track this behaviour down to see why this is the case. 

The only reliable way to get arrested was having a bounty and then beeing Raped by SLadventurs -> Prison outcome. 

Now now, what to do?

- Cursed Loot MCM: I found zero hints on how to solve it here. I cannot prevent DCUR from messing with the guards. 
- Sexlab Survival - I think I coiulkd change something with "guard Behaviour", but I have honestly no clue what the guards wanted from me in the first place (I guess toll eviction because POP teleported me from outside Whiterun to the inside (I thought it just triggers the other way round). So if this is the case it seems it cannot turned off without disabling Tolll Evasion I gues

 

- POP: at least here I think POP is basically innocent since it just wants to do its thing....

Possible Solutions?

I would also be very happy for suggestions on how this could maybe be fixed via settings of your individual mods. I ran out of ideas here.

- DCUR: 

Option to use vanilla Crime system on which POP also relies. Just implement a function that allows that chance setting to use Dagonar Prison or POP prison after vanilla guard dialogue. 
DCUR at the moment seems to implement its own routine where you can seemingly have a DD outcome additionaly. 
Even with setting "Prison Overhaul Chance 100%" in Crime MCM this is still happening. So in fact the POP chance is low (33% or what) because only one of three dialogue outcomes leads to arrest and then POP?!

- Sexlab Survival:
I love the guard behaviour and all the systems. But maybe we could have an Option to also use the Vanilla System here?
Maybe just by adding a crime and not equipping stuff or even talking in the first place?
Just a thought: maybe the SLS guard system + dialogue could respect DHLP suspend (which POP uses to keep other mods out). 
 

- POP

Yeah, no idea if you can "patch" this from your perspective. But still tagged you inte because we need all the three grandmasters of crime here
Only "idea" I had was maybe POP could remove the Bounty/Crime Value the PC has in the moment he is arrested (and store it for later use if required). 
Maybe this could prevent the regular guard dialogue from interfering. But not the SL Survival interuption.

 

Thank you alot for your work. I just hope we can solve this somehow.


Screenshot of the mess:
 

[LazyBoot]

15 minutes ago, Nymra said:

Also in general guards do NOTHING even when the PC has high Bounty and running around in the town. 
They dont chase, they dont talk. When I talk to them they say "Hey, I know you" thats it. 
Only in some rare cases (like when having sex or when I am in scenes) somehow they start to be "interested". 
I could not track this behaviour down to see why this is the case. 

I can't help much with the other stuff, but if "high bounty" is only in the hundres, I believe that might be a vanilla issue

[Nymra]

2 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

I can't help much with the other stuff, but if "high bounty" is only in the hundres, I believe that might be a vanilla issue

I had a 2400 gold bounty.
pop arrested for a major crime. so at least this seems unlikely from my perspective 

 

[LazyBoot]

2 minutes ago, Nymra said:

I had a 2400 gold bounty.
pop arrested for a major crime. so at least this seems unlikely from my perspective 

 

ok, yeah.. that's outside the range where the vanilla issue happens (I think that was less than 1000 or something)

[donttouchmethere]

Oh shit, I wouldn't even know where to start.

You should add Teutonic to the conversation if your hunting for crime mods.

To get those 4 mods work together you need to manipulate MCMs a lot... like in A LOT! (also luck helps)

You really need to know what all those settings do before even trying.

Theoretically it's possible to use all three, practically it's a nightmare lol (I gave up)

 

I also saw that I got guard approaches while POP arrested, but Inte said it's impossible, so I guess there are civil NPC in guard disguise!!!

 

• DCL + POP => arrests often end just in CTD, but settings to either only DCL or only POP worked somewhat
• If PC wears DCL custom DDs => needs DDe with admin password to make POP able to remove them or the scene gets stuck (forever!)
• DCL => deactivate all guard approaches for running around naked or any guard approach, also deactivate rape I guess
• SLadv => know the crime settings, it will add small amounts of bounty all the time and that might cause issues?
• SLS => I had no issues with SLS guard approaches during POP scenes, but I last tested that combo with an early version of SLS. Now the guards are way more responsive, because they have more reasons to approach (I mean POP steals all your licenses^^).
• Followers (trespassing) or other mods that add bounty for what ever reason => any further bounty added while in POP prison ended in clusterfuck, like guards try to arrest you while in POP.

My main issue is that mods don't recognize that player is in POP and everything likes to break POP.

By now I wouldn't combine DCL and POP anymore.

DCL prison is good, because it's located in an outside cell.

POP is great because it IS connected to cities, but this also means a lot of issues with approach mods and bounty adding mods that aren't POP aware.

 

For POP to run smoothly (or at all):

• deactivate pet collar
• deactivate sexlife
• make sure your followers are on wait (outside => they can cause trespassing bounty that cause POP or any mod to arrest you again)
• if wearing Quest DDs make sure to allow DDe to remove quest items or scene gets stuck
• if possible prevent any other mods to add bounty while in POP
• Not all city overhauls are compatible (JK works, Dawn of Skyrim is borderline compatible, ETAC the beta works)
• Not all Tavern overhauls are compatible
• if in Solitude deactivate any Dripping when aroused effects or you get "blinking" characters
• basically deactivate any approach mods (only DEC nearly respects POP, best to deactivate DD adding after rape)
• Deactivate DD adding from Devious Vanilla
• for SLS a workaround might be to lower the scan range of guards while in POP, and rise guard polling times and amount of guards that search for you
• ToH prisoners in Riften might autorape you and break POP, means basically you have to visit Prisons first and move them out of the way.

• Snoipeh's More Creatures adds creatures in prisons, in combo with SLAC it also can break POP scenes

• best to not have SLS guards searching for you while in POP

• deactivate other mods adding random bounty while in prison, guess that even includes POP itself

[Nymra]

4 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

I also saw that I got guard approaches while POP arrested, but Inte said it's impossible, so I guess there are civil NPC in guard disguise!!!

Its totally possible. And at the moment it seems two mods can pull this off, DCUR and SLS. 

 

4 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

• DCL + POP => arrests often end just in CTD, but settings to either only DCL or only POP worked somewhat

not for me. 100% POP is having 100% issues.
Setting Dagonar to 100% means POP never starts, so...

I mean Dagonar has the Simple Slavery outcome, POP hasnt. So that should be possible to work alongside without harrassing each others starting process

 

4 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

• If PC wears DCL custom DDs => needs DDe with admin password to make POP able to remove them or the scene gets stuck (forever!)

hmm. POP removed the DCUR items without problems for me. 
Quest devices are another thing that I did not test.

4 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

• DCL => deactivate all guard approaches for running around naked

I had them off. 

 

4 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

• SLadv => know the crime settings, it will add small amounts of bounty all the time and that might cause issues?

of course not. I set all crimes to 500 minimum and also 500 is treated as major crime already. 
No smaller amounts can happen.

Dont know about SLS tho. 

Also when this all happened I always had 4 digit bounties at least from what I read in the vanilla Crime Menu. 

4 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

• SLS => I had no issues with SLS guard approaches during POP scenes, but I last tested that combo with an early version of SLS. Now the guards are way more responsive, because they have more reasons to approach (I mean POP steals all your licenses^^).

this is a major issue for me too. SLS guards should leave POP alone. I currently see no way around this without disabling basically the stuff for which I installed SLS in the first place

I will try to disable their ability to equip DDs, maybe then I can at least "survive" the dialogue. 

4 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

• Followers (trespassing) or other mods that add bounty for what ever reason => any further bounty added while in POP prison ended in clusterfuck, like guards try to arrest you while in POP.

none exist of these in my LO 

 

4 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

My main issue is that mods don't recognize that player is in POP and everything likes to break POP.

POP usually was very good in preventing mods from interfere. I think the only thing that annoyed me was the Courier
I even had a hard time breaking the Parade Quest to allow mods to rape the PC while in it. I did not suceed...  

 

 

4 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

By now I wouldn't combine DCL and POP anymore.

DCL prison is good, because it's located in an outside cell.

POP is great because it IS connected to cities, but this also means a lot of issues with approach mods and bounty adding mods that aren't POP aware.

that is just sad
Because I dont see any reason why they should not be 100% compatible. 
I could even see a colaboration between both, POP could send the PC to dagonar for forced labour for example (just 1 day task and then port back to POP prison). 
also POP could just integrate dagonar as alternate outcome for Markarth/Reach and Windhelm... 

I mean it could be the perfect Prison experience. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

For POP to run smoothly (or at all):

• deactivate pet collar
• deactivate sexlife
• make sure your followers are on wait
• if wearing Quest DDs make sure to allow DDe to remove quest items or scene gets stuck
• if possible prevent any other mods to add bounty while in POP
• Not all city overhauls are compatible (JK works, Dawn of Skyrim is borderline compatible, ETAC the beta works)
• Not all Tavern overhauls are compatible
• basically deactivate any approach mods (only DEC nearly respects POP, best to deactivate DD adding after rape)
• Deactivate DD adding from Devious Vanilla
• ToH prisoners in Riften might autorape you and break POP, means basically you have to visit Prisons first and move them out of the way.

• Snoipeh's More Creatures adds creatures in prisons, in combo with SLAC it also can break POP scenes

•  

All these mods I dont have and also not a follower. 
But good list indeed. Already installed a city overhaul mod for that Reason.


Btw: Enhanced Light and FX also places Stuff where POP furnitures are located outside. So you have to "clean" the place before you get improsined. 
The latest POP version promisses more compatibilty with City overhauls tho. Would like to see and test that! Cant see the boring standard cities anymore 

4 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

• for SLS a workaround might be to lower the scan range of guards while in POP, and rise guard polling times and amount of guards that search for yo
• best to not have SLS guards searching for you while in POP

as I said, I think SLS guards should just respect the POP lockout system. I mean Sexlab Adventures, Aroused Creatures and similar mods work very well with POP. 
Even Slaverun Enforcer did not interfere! 

4 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

• if in Solitude deactivate any Dripping when aroused effects or you get "blinking" characters

 

that is a curious one?! what do you mean with "blinking"? 

[donttouchmethere]

12 minutes ago, Nymra said:

that is a curious one?! what do you mean with "blinking"? 

NPC and PC vanish and reappear while DW plays dripping animations of any kind in Solitude (gag dripping and aroused dripping).

 

14 minutes ago, Nymra said:

Btw: Enhanced Light and FX also places Stuff where POP furnitures are located outside. So you have to "clean" the place before you get improsined. 
The latest POP version promisses more compatibilty with City overhauls tho. Would like to see and test that! Cant see the boring standard cities anymore 

Best to remove clutter that blocks POP furniture:

Jaxonz's Positioner + Cell Builder

Cell Builder remembers the changes if you start a new game and removes the clutter as soon as you visit the cell the first time in a new game. (works even most of the time!)

 

[donttouchmethere]

18 minutes ago, Nymra said:

Setting Dagonar to 100% means POP never starts, so...

that's the idea, no conflict lol

if you where arrested by one mod just move the slider into the other direction to make sure you get arrested by the other ?‍♂️

 

 

[donttouchmethere]

19 minutes ago, Nymra said:

hmm. POP removed the DCUR items without problems for me. 
Quest devices are another thing that I did not test.

talking about quest items

[tamai]

I got rid of cursed loot for this very reason kinda, what would happen is they would say "wait i know you" then immediately attack and kill me without any options of paying off my bounty so I got rid of cursed loot and that seemed to fix my issue, this is an alternative but if you absolutely must use cursed loot then its something maybe kimy needs to look into possibly.

 

[Zaflis]

2 hours ago, Nymra said:

Eventually ALL guards went to attack the PC again and then just to start the imprison dialogue again...

This is known behavior by DCUR when you click through the arrest dialog, especially the very last guard response. You have to wait and hear what he says, otherwise bugged after-combat is almost guaranteed.

 

2 hours ago, Nymra said:

Also in general guards do NOTHING even when the PC has high Bounty and running around in the town. 

Do you happen to have Dragonborn in Distress with its guard dialogs as well? It could be that this issue was later fixed, at least i haven't seen it for months. But i might have changed its MCM to disable guard things, i forgot now. If it's not that i don't have ideas.

 

As for DCUR+POP i didn't have issues on that kind of playthrough some months back. POP might CTD in jail after first 1-2 punishments on rare occasion but not before that really.

[Monoman1]

3 hours ago, Nymra said:

I love the guard behaviour and all the systems. But maybe we could have an Option to also use the Vanilla System here?

I'm kind of skimming here but SLS doesn't really replace 'guard behavior'. Most stuff is additional - added on top. Some things are replaced like the guards responding to you shouting or dropping weapons. But that's about it that I can think of. Everything else is 'standalone'

[Nymra]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

I'm kind of skimming here but SLS doesn't really replace 'guard behavior'. Most stuff is additional - added on top. Some things are replaced like the guards responding to you shouting or dropping weapons. But that's about it that I can think of. Everything else is 'standalone'

That is what I mean, SLS is not replacing anything, but adding its own system. And from what I observe that system is interfering with POP arrests which is both unimmersive and at times problematic. 
I mean SLS equiped and armbinder during the POP scene where all the items are put in a chest... 
What I mean is that the own system SLS uses for guard behaviour towards PC should be OFF while POP is running.

 

I also dont think SLS is handling much with bounties, there is always some other punishent involved. So it basically creates its own "crime" system (which is incompatible with the POP one). 

I dont know, I would love both mods together. But I also dont feel like spending days in my profile just to have then the one POP session I get because of crime ruined by a guard interference. BEcause that kind of stuff is very hard to bugfix on the run  

Acutally I m using SLS to have MORE stuff to care about so I get bounties easier and then make POP happen more often. 


its even happening very reliable. 
Just had a guard AGAIN via SLS asking me for money and items while I was imprisoned. 

So I got the Prison Sentence for 2000 bounty AND Then the SLS guard took 2000 gold from me... that is not fair

[Nymra]

1 hour ago, Zaflis said:

This is known behavior by DCUR when you click through the arrest dialog, especially the very last guard response. You have to wait and hear what he says, otherwise bugged after-combat is almost guaranteed.

 

I deinstalled DCUR on that profile and the guards worked 100% as intended again. 
I dont understand this anyway, what purpose has the altered guard behaviour? I mean it does not lead to the DD events trigger anyway? 
 

1 hour ago, Zaflis said:

 

Do you happen to have Dragonborn in Distress with its guard dialogs as well? It could be that this issue was later fixed, at least i haven't seen it for months. But i might have changed its MCM to disable guard things, i forgot now. If it's not that i don't have ideas.

 

no. I gave up on that very fast. I dunno why that feature even had to be there. I dont mind mod authors trying to do their own thing but when there are no toggles compatibility of mods is almost zero. So many nice mods that are basically unplayable next to the top 10 mods you need to have kinky skyrim... 

1 hour ago, Zaflis said:

 

As for DCUR+POP i didn't have issues on that kind of playthrough some months back. POP might CTD in jail after first 1-2 punishments on rare occasion but not before that really.

I ve never had CTDs from POP. I spend days in prison. DCUR just makes the starting of a prison sentence so much harder, in other words making bounties very easy because you can avoid beeing captured surprisingly easy (which is not what I think was intended) 

[Monoman1]

4 minutes ago, Nymra said:

I also dont think SLS is handling much with bounties, there is always some other punishent involved. So it basically creates its own "crime" system (which is incompatible with the POP one). 

:shrugs:

I've used pop since forever. Sometimes you just have to handle things yourself. There's only so much I can do to avoid conflicts.

 

I've added GetCurrentAIPacakge == - 1 for the player to the various force greets and aliases for guard behaviors. Might help. But the timing of everything is largely out of my hands. 

[Nymra]

7 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

:shrugs:

I've used pop since forever. Sometimes you just have to handle things yourself. There's only so much I can do to avoid conflicts.

 

I've added GetCurrentAIPacakge == - 1 for the player to the various force greets and aliases for guard behaviors. Might help. But the timing of everything is largely out of my hands. 

I mean I just ask to understand, but when Sexlab Adventures and Sexlab Aroused Creatures can be stopped by POP why can there be no similar feature for SLS guards? 
I dont know exactly but I think Sladv is blocked by DHLP suspend and SLAC is saying "creature could not follow" (which could be caused by the same). 

So when SLS guards respect DHLP suspend they would not interfere with POP and also not rush into running sex scenes in general. I also use DHLP suspend to make Naked Defeat work which uses Furnitures. If that happens in a city an SLS guard would break the quest which needs a reload. 
 

[Monoman1]

9 hours ago, Nymra said:

I mean I just ask to understand, but when Sexlab Adventures and Sexlab Aroused Creatures can be stopped by POP why can there be no similar feature for SLS guards? 
I dont know exactly but I think Sladv is blocked by DHLP suspend and SLAC is saying "creature could not follow" (which could be caused by the same). 

So when SLS guards respect DHLP suspend they would not interfere with POP and also not rush into running sex scenes in general. I also use DHLP suspend to make Naked Defeat work which uses Furnitures. If that happens in a city an SLS guard would break the quest which needs a reload. 
 

I've added a check for DLHP suspend as the variable was available anyway but the mod was already checking for the player IsInScene. But I still think you're underestimating the timing issues involved. Some conflicts will still slip through the net and will need to managed by the user. 

[Nymra]

10 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I've added a check for DLHP suspend as the variable was available anyway but the mod was already checking for the player IsInScene. But I still think you're underestimating the timing issues involved. Some conflicts will still slip through the net and will need to managed by the user. 

thx alot. yeah, I know perfection is a different thing, I appreciate the effort. 
All I can do is reporting issues and hope for the best

I will test and see if I can find workarounds or behaviours to prevent remaining issues if I find any when SLS is involved. 
btw: just out of curiosity: is there already a condition where the guards throw the PC into the kennel? like when crime gold is too high or something else?
I could not get that to trigger (maybe just misread that part in the SLS thread tho)

 

[Monoman1]

5 minutes ago, Nymra said:

btw: just out of curiosity: is there already a condition where the guards throw the PC into the kennel? like when crime gold is too high or something else?
I could not get that to trigger (maybe just misread that part in the SLS thread tho)

No there's no bounty handling in SLS other than adding to your bounty. 

You can be sent to the kennel if you break guard behaviors rules. It's one of the punishments. But of course it's mixed with all the other punishments so... RNG. In the currently posted version it's also only available as a punishment in Whiterun. That should be fixed in my version. 

[Inte]

On 9/22/2020 at 7:25 PM, Nymra said:

DHLP suspend (which POP uses to keep other mods out). 

POP is not using that. 

 

On 9/22/2020 at 7:25 PM, Nymra said:

POP could remove the Bounty/Crime Value the PC has in the moment he is arrested (and store it for later use if required). 

POP already removes and stores all existing bounty on arrest. 

 

On 9/22/2020 at 7:25 PM, Nymra said:

Maybe this could prevent the regular guard dialogue from interfering.

It does.

[Inte]

On 9/22/2020 at 8:23 PM, donttouchmethere said:

DCL prison is good, because it's located in an outside cell.

Outside cell? 

 

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, Inte said:

Outside cell? 

Oh my. What happened? Someone got turned inside out? ?

[pappana]

On 9/23/2020 at 1:25 AM, Nymra said:

- DCUR: 

 

Option to use vanilla Crime system on which POP also relies. Just implement a function that allows that chance setting to use Dagonar Prison or POP prison after vanilla guard dialogue. 
DCUR at the moment seems to implement its own routine where you can seemingly have a DD outcome additionaly. 
Even with setting "Prison Overhaul Chance 100%" in Crime MCM this is still happening. So in fact the POP chance is low (33% or what) because only one of three dialogue outcomes leads to arrest and then POP?!

 

I know im late but for anyone else

 

You can completly kill the new prison system and arrest dialogues kimy implemented in DCL 8.5 with this console command "StopQuest dcur_prison_guardArrestDlg" wich will restore vanilla arrest dialogue making it compatible with both pop and s.l.u.t.s(if you happen to use that.

 

then with this command "StartQuest dcur_prison_guardArrestDlg" you can revive it again.

 

Kimy said before that using this command is hurting DCL in some way though she didnt explain why or how or what parts other than arrests but from what ive tested with playthroughs involving sluts it only hurts the DCL arrest system when used.

 

this command will restore paying off bounties, pop arrests and sluts outcomes