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Decided to go with a different approach and built a json for a tera armor pack, but created only 3 different outfits, one for clothing looking armor, one for light and one for heavy and as long as you don't mind mismatch between cuirass, boots and gauntlets it work out great, The mismatch is obviously not too bad with the tera armor pack alone since they all share a similar design aesthetic.

 

The tera pack has quite a number of armors on it and while making sets for each of them is possible, it's also a lot of work, but using only 3 categories and just packing all the items in them takes about 5 minutes, since my earlier mergedarmor.json had about 40 outfits and that took me about an hour to put together. Also it cuts down on the amount of internal resources that bikinifier has to use,

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31 minutes ago, ttpt said:

Decided to go with a different approach and built a json for a tera armor pack, but created only 3 different outfits, one for clothing looking armor, one for light and one for heavy and as long as you don't mind mismatch between cuirass, boots and gauntlets it work out great, The mismatch is obviously not too bad with the tera armor pack alone since they all share a similar design aesthetic.

 

The tera pack has quite a number of armors on it and while making sets for each of them is possible, it's also a lot of work, but using only 3 categories and just packing all the items in them takes about 5 minutes, since my earlier mergedarmor.json had about 40 outfits and that took me about an hour to put together. Also it cuts down on the amount of internal resources that bikinifier has to use,

I had a feeling some armors would make good 'mashups', particularly for clothing. Unfortunately, some armors won't and will have to be 'pigeon holed' into their own outfit group. DX stuff is definitely the later. 

 

Feel free to post some screen shots. I'd be interested to see the results people are getting. 

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52 minutes ago, ttpt said:

Decided to go with a different approach and built a json for a tera armor pack, but created only 3 different outfits, one for clothing looking armor, one for light and one for heavy and as long as you don't mind mismatch between cuirass, boots and gauntlets it work out great,

The Nini armors suggest a similar approach: they fall into rough categories that often offer mix-match possibilities.

  • Robes / magic-user outfits - none of these are really robes in 4.0, though there are some real robes in 1.2 and more in one-off outfits.
  • Swashbuckler styles - clothing with a restoration-era vibe - good for stealth builds
  • Armor partial - skimpy armor styles
  • Armor practical/heavy
  • Maid/cute - typically have a very modern look, I'd put the xmas-reindeer outfit in this category too

 

Many have damaged versions of tops that you can simply mix in.

Almost all are a top/bottom pair, often with separate leggings or boots, and of course, separate gloves. Headwear is mostly impractical.

 

Melodic requires an approach like DX. Each outfit stands alone with very little mix-match potential.

Some exception of course, like the new allure panties that mix with various jackets etc. Most of it even less "lore" than Nini, and Nini is very much anime-fantasy and not Skyrim.

 

I guess that is the up-side of BD - often looks more "Skyrim" than Skyrim - or if not, at least has a Hyperborean vibe that fits well with the tone of LL mods.

 

The potential to completely change the look of Skyrim, and replace everything with Nini and Melodic is awesome, but it's still a big project.

I don't have time to do it yet :( 

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These may be a bit too bright, I had just cast candlelight on myself.

 

Some literal random ladies at the winking skeever, that's a vanilla NPC, a populated cities one and an inconsequential NPC

 

1.jpg.189b7988d78bde2fc911a025755c16e9.jpg

 

Went to radiant raiment after, they don't believe in pants over there (I haven't actually put the top and bottom keywords from SLAX on armors yet)

 

2.jpg.fde1e5551f781fd36d8f658dee9cf2e0.jpg

 

 

Elisif and her vampire lady, her boots kind of clip since as mentioned they belong to a different armor set so this stuff is bound to happen.

 

3.jpg.ce1ce2e6feaaf7a3b4e7050a44028e6e.jpg

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50 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

The Nini armors suggest a similar approach: they fall into rough categories that often offer mix-match possibilities.

  • Robes / magic-user outfits - none of these are really robes in 4.0, though there are some real robes in 1.2 and more in one-off outfits.
  • Swashbuckler styles - clothing with a restoration-era vibe - good for stealth builds
  • Armor partial - skimpy armor styles
  • Armor practical/heavy
  • Maid/cute - typically have a very modern look, I'd put the xmas-reindeer outfit in this category too

 

Many have damaged versions of tops that you can simply mix in.

Almost all are a top/bottom pair, often with separate leggings or boots, and of course, separate gloves. Headwear is mostly impractical.

 

Melodic requires an approach like DX. Each outfit stands alone with very little mix-match potential.

Some exception of course, like the new allure panties that mix with various jackets etc. Most of it even less "lore" than Nini, and Nini is very much anime-fantasy and not Skyrim.

 

I guess that is the up-side of BD - often looks more "Skyrim" than Skyrim - or if not, at least has a Hyperborean vibe that fits well with the tone of LL mods.

 

The potential to completely change the look of Skyrim, and replace everything with Nini and Melodic is awesome, but it's still a big project.

I don't have time to do it yet :( 

 

I actually have the Nini 4.0 and 1.2 packs downloaded, not quite installed yet, I like to have a look over the stats, prices and such of armor mods I download before I put them in the game, don't like to have a bikini armor with daedric stats you know. Also putting the stuff into leveled list for distribution as I mentioned before, but since I'm actually doing this stuff now, big pre made armor merges seem like the way to go.

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So . . . I decided to start easy, with an armor with only three parts.

 

Q1) What are acceptable values for "category"?

 

Q2) Once I convert the hex values to decimal, do I still need to pad out to 6 characters (003429 or 3429 in place of 000d65)?

 

Q3) What are the acceptable values for "armortier"?

 

It's relatively short, so I'm pasting it in for legibility. I'm attaching it in case anyone else uses the same armor.

Spoiler

{
    "formList" : 
    {
        "outfit0" :
        [
            "003429| R18Pn 01 - Eisen Platte Armor(Sexy).esp", 
            "003430| R18Pn 01 - Eisen Platte Armor(Sexy).esp", 
            "003431| R18Pn 01 - Eisen Platte Armor(Sexy).esp"
        ]
    },
    "int" : 
    {
        "armortier" : 1
    },
    "string" : 
    {
        "groupname" : "Eisen Armor BK Sexy",
        "category" : "ArmorLight"
    },
    "stringList" : 
    {
        "outfitnames" : 
        [
            "Eisen Armor BK Sexy"
        ]
    }
}

R18Pn 01 - Eisen Platte Armor(Sexy).json

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7 hours ago, ttpt said:

they don't believe in pants over there

Nor do I :)

6 hours ago, stillnofunnylogin said:

Once I convert the hex values to decimal, do I still need to pad out to 6 characters (003429 or 3429 in place of 000d65)?

No. It's not necessary. 

6 hours ago, stillnofunnylogin said:

What are acceptable values for "category"?

It's currently unused. In retrospect it should be a list rather than a single entry so that each outfit can be a different type. I'd just leave it for now. Just keep an eye on the changelog when updating. I'll note any changes to the json files in the first line. 

6 hours ago, stillnofunnylogin said:

What are the acceptable values for "armortier"?

Same as above. Though range will probably be 0-6 based on the crafting perk needed to assign it some kind of importance/rarity. 

Iron/hide - 0

Steel/Leather - 1

Dwarven/Elven - 2

 

Should also be a list. 

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21 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

7. Teleport to an 'outfit studio' for outfit configuration where Adrianne Avenicci will help preview outfits as selected. 

The cell already exists and you can activate Adrianne which will open her inventory and she'll put on anything you give her. So there's a little bit done already. 

 

This might be a good, in game way to create outfits rather than trawling through jsons. But you'd have to have the armor in your inventory already which is chicken and egg type stuff. 

 

Just a side point I'll make to everyone regarding armor merges. I'm not sure how merging mods works internally. I would guess that if the load order and content is the exact same then the merge produced will be the same every time - The FormIds will be the same which is massively important to bikinifier. I'd also guess that if you were to add armors on to the bottom of the merge then it should be fine. But I am purely guessing here. 

If the merge is different every time then it means trouble. And you'd have to leave the merge alone or redo your bikinifier jsons which would be a massive pain in the ass. 

 

Ultimately while I did set up some stuff with big armor packs it's probably best I wait until you implement a way to save jsons from within the game, I see what you're planning to do with an "outfit studio" but I think setting up a script and stuff with an NPC is probably unnecessary, unless you're playing with a male character but who does that? Just a showcase NPC is fine I suppose.

 

The way I'd hope for an implementation for custom outfits would be in the outfit studio have say 10 containers (that's an arbitrarily big enough number, could be bigger but it doesn't matter), create an outfit group in the MCM as it seems to currently be implemented, fill those 10 containers in game manually with the armors you want for that armor set, 1 outfit per container  (either just a normal set, or just a bunch of armors you think would look acceptable on a random mashup) and then go back into the MCM, and press a button to read the contents of the containers and write the JSON file output to .\Bikinifier\SKSE\Plugins\StorageUtilData\Bikinifier\Outfits\example.json then maybe everyone just has to go to that json and edit in the names for the outfits if it's too cumbersome to implements naming the container outfits in-game.

 

Like the way I did the teraarmorpack, which granted didn't take too long once I understood all the parts, went into TESEDIT, ran the script to create the .csv file, did a sort on the column that contained the clothing,light,heavy descriptions, copied the contents of the csv into the excel spreadsheet, then copied the stuff from sheet1 that was all clothing into outfit0, then light into outfit1 and heavy into outfit2, and then at the bottom named 3 outfits for teracloth,teralight,teraheavy then imported into the game.

 

If using a container method in game, I would have used additemmenu to just grab all the armors from the terapack, sorted by armor type in game and dumped all the clothing into one box, light armor into a second box and heavy armor into a third box, and then pressed a few buttons on the MCM and be done with it.

 

If you have in game visual cues to what the actual armors look like, you can definitely get more granular in how you decide to distribute stuff.

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Sure. Certain elements of an in-game system of building outfits I can picture. 

  • An outfit container. Dump armors into this to compile an outfit.
  • A button (dwemer maybe) to create the outfit.
  • Another button to roll an outfit and preview the outcome on Adrianne. 
  • An inventory container. Items dumped in here will be returned when leaving the cell. 
  • A dumping container that just destroys items when leaving the cell.

Other components I'm having a harder time with. Like

  • Entering a name for an outfit
  • If/When armor tiers/categories are needed how to put the information in
  • How to add the 'Add stockings from pool' chance to an outfit. Same for 'Heels from pool' if/when that's added. 

In any case. I wouldn't hold your breath for it. I'm out of time to work on anything for a while now. And I'll possibly be more interested in adding weapons first. I think that might actually be easier than armors (now I'm just tempting fate)

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8 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Sure. Certain elements of an in-game system of building outfits I can picture. 

  • An outfit container. Dump armors into this to compile an outfit.
  • A button (dwemer maybe) to create the outfit.
  • Another button to roll an outfit and preview the outcome on Adrianne. 
  • An inventory container. Items dumped in here will be returned when leaving the cell. 
  • A dumping container that just destroys items when leaving the cell.

Other components I'm having a harder time with. Like

  • Entering a name for an outfit
  • If/When armor tiers/categories are needed how to put the information in
  • How to add the 'Add stockings from pool' chance to an outfit. Same for 'Heels from pool' if/when that's added. 

In any case. I wouldn't hold your breath for it. I'm out of time to work on anything for a while now. And I'll possibly be more interested in adding weapons first. I think that might actually be easier than armors (now I'm just tempting fate)

The way I described it, I imagined making 10 outfits at a time, but honestly even one container and one outfit at a time would be enough, put items in, press button, outfit comes out.

 

As far as naming stuff, that's way more straighforward by working on the json directly under "outfitnames", there's also "category" and "armortier", on the json file and alt-tab is a perfectly valid thing to be doing when building outfits.

 

Mostly I just feel like the visual aid of building stuff directly in skyrim would be the most helpful bit and also a way to save that stuff into a json when pressing the button.

 

But in any case, take your time and work on whatever you want, the way stuff is implemented right now works well enough for me, even if it was a little cumbersome to set up.

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14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Given the current thread, this make me laugh:

 

Realistic Armor

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/102963

 

Heh, poorly named mod. It should be: "Slightly More Realistic Armor"

 

It's nearly all lamellar and laminar pieces with an implied gambeson underneath. Most of it is far too bulky and it's missing key sets like leather gambesons, mirror plate, partial plate, segmented plate (lorica segmentata for Legion officers), muscle cuirasses (Tullius), and linothorax (standard legion equipment). The maille and padded gambesons are pretty fucking decent, though. The male models look like beefed-up SAM bodies, and the females are about right for the males. Honestly, there shouldn't be much of a difference. The Mount and Blade series gets this done well, and Kingdom Come: Deliverance does it perfectly.

 

I suppose I'm being too hard on the set since it generally gets the basics right, but a "realistic" armor mod should progress from none to partial to partial-combined to full, with full sets being Jarl-type sets. It's also worth noting that I've been working on a realistic overhaul for over two years and mine still sucks, so the modder did quite well in creating something that's nightmarish levels of complicated, so don't take my criticisms too harshly.

 

Now, back to our regularly scheduled discussions about making truly absurd "armor" the Skyrim standard. ?

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33 minutes ago, SkyAddiction said:

I suppose I'm being too hard on the set since it generally gets the basics right, but a "realistic" armor mod should progress from none to partial to partial-combined to full, with full sets being Jarl-type sets. It's also worth noting that I've been working on a realistic overhaul for over two years and mine still sucks, so the modder did quite well in creating something that's nightmarish levels of complicated, so don't take my criticisms too harshly.

It would be useful as a standalone, extending the range of types available. As a vanilla replacer it is problematic.

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On 5/20/2020 at 6:36 AM, Lupine00 said:

It would be useful as a standalone, extending the range of types available. As a vanilla replacer it is problematic.

Ain't touching that. I'm still waiting on permission to post a conversion of BD from replacer to standalone. Looks like its work that's going to go unposted.

Stupid permissions. General permission should just be 'don't be a dick'.

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1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Ain't touching that. I'm still waiting on permission to post a conversion of BD from replacer to standalone. Looks like its work that's going to go unposted.

Stupid permissions. General permission should just be 'don't be a dick'.

That's my problem with the "Anyone who wants to use this can, just contact me for permission first."

Which translates to: "Anyone who wants to use this can, just contact me for permission first."

 

...and inevitably ends up in a dead-end after that modder loses interest and stops answering mail.

Welcome to the mod graveyard.

 

As for "Realistic Armors", I never suggested anyone actually make it into a standalone. The author is actively developing it, and they're the one to do that.

I doubt I would use it, but it would be hilarious to contrast it with Nini outfits, or some Melodic outfit made entirely of very tiny chain links.

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Guest AthenaESIV

Realistic Armors is going to be mod of the month, lol.

 

Honestly, I like the idea of mixing realistic armors with the typical bikini and patreon armors... Especially if it could be done by faction where only certain types of women use sluttier looking armors. Weather is another important consideration in that.

 

I like the idea of sloot armors only being worn by a certain percentage of NPCs though better than every single one.

 

How best to distribute all that though would take some deliberation imo. 

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So some good news for once. Merge plugins does appear to create merges in a deterministic, predictable fashion as long as new mods are appended to the end of the merge and forms within existing mods remain the same between merges. Here's a comparison in TesEdit between 2 massive armor merges where I added a cloaks mod on to 'Armors Merged Test.esp'. This form is way down at xxDA1BBE and all the formIds look to be identical. Which is great news. 

 

untitled.thumb.jpg.a9e6bf20316145f50dbaeb96cce9012f.jpg

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By the way, keywords don't have to be tied to the mod they came from, it's solely dependent on the keyword name, not the form id.  I tested this out when using the SOS_Revealing keyword on bikini tops, creating my own SOS_Revealing keyword in my bikini esp allowed SOS to correctly figure things out and allow bikini bottoms to work correctly.

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Just now, cetuximab said:

By the way, keywords don't have to be tied to the mod they came from, it's solely dependent on the keyword name, not the form id.  I tested this out when using the SOS_Revealing keyword on bikini tops, creating my own SOS_Revealing keyword in my esp allowed SOS to correctly figure things out and allow bikini bottoms to work correctly.

Mmm depends. If a mod uses HasKeywordString then it'll probably work. But HasKeywordString is generally regarded as unreliable so I don't use it. In fact I've never used it in any of my mods. I use HasKeyword which checks against the FormId. I guess you COULD create a mod with the same name and renumber the FormId to match. That might work. 

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2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

So some good news for once. Merge plugins does appear to create merges in a deterministic, predictable fashion as long as new mods are appended to the end of the merge and forms within existing mods remain the same between merges. Here's a comparison in TesEdit between 2 massive armor merges where I added a cloaks mod on to 'Armors Merged Test.esp'. This form is way down at xxDA1BBE and all the formIds look to be identical. Which is great news. 

 

untitled.thumb.jpg.a9e6bf20316145f50dbaeb96cce9012f.jpg

 

This is true as long as you're merging stuff in the same order every time and no new things have been added. For example if an armor mod releases an update that say, adds a new color of cape that new form is gonna mess up the entire list afterwards on a new merge. But you probably already knew this.

 

Not sure why you're checking up on this specifically but I'd advise against relying on this too much.

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