RexxingFlex Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 This most likely is a very lack luster topic that I'm about to start! But what I noticed a while ago kinda blew my mind! BTW I don't need any help or anything this is just me asking people if they had a similar experience! Read this only If you are bored! Over the years of playing and replaying the game I have noticed that the game slows down as one progresses through it! And I've played this game with multiple setups, granted over the years I've learned to keep it running smoother with mods: like what mods to use and what to not use, the load orders, those wonderful community patches provided by you wonderful people out there. But still in this regard the results always ended up being similar, there was always that certain slowdown! Not as much to do with framerates (although those can get affected as well) more with the loading times! Over time they really got temperamental, really just mostly lasting longer than they should! Like going threw any doors that lead to other cells or simply one that teleports the player in the same cell but a different location, it would just last longer than it should, if that makes any sense at all! Same thing with waiting, sleeping and of course fast traveling! For the life of me I never figured out what could possibly cause this problem! I mean I had ideas on what it could be, but nothing substantial! I always though it was due to the fact that I play this game on a rather mid to lowspec laptop, because I really like the damn thing and I hate not using my old stuff! But really 2gigs of VRam and 8gis of RAM should be enough for a 10 year old game anyway! And of course the possibility that I might have messed up somewhere was always there. So didn't pay it too much attention and just dealt with it! Until I my recent playthrew, I wanted to keep it clean! No experimenting with mods, just use what you know works and cannot possibly cause any damage! At first the game ran buttery smooth, even loading times were perfect! Midplaythrew the game still running smooth, loading on the other hand....increasing! Then I went FuckThisShit.JPEG and installed Beyond Skyrim Bruma, a mod that I always lusted over.....loading times improve for some reason! The mod is massive but not one single hiccup while playing it, it's honestly baffling! Finish most of the missions on there, go back to Skyrim with an increased hatred for the Thalmor! Prepare to go to Solstheim for some more fun times, game freezes while preparing to disembark the ship, notice the Autosave text appearing in the corner and it finally starts back up again.....that can't be it! I had specifically read one time that Fallout New Vegas has a few problems with the Autosave and the person writing the article was advising to avoid using the function for the game! But at the time I really did not know what they were actually saying, my stupid brain understood it as "don't load from an Autosave or something because BAD MKAY"! And I didn't think the same would apply to Skyrim! I enter Apocrypha for the first time in the playthrew and boom, the game freezes again! This time it takes at least a minute before deciding to start doing stuff, notice that damn Autosave! You have to remember the same does not apply to manual saves, those are much faster! I finally decide to turn off the Autosave function entirely, basically as much as the game allows one to do so! Good Todd....the loading times are not just faster, they are instantaneous! It is unbelievable, the differences are staggering! And the Autosaves that the game does not let you turn off, such as the aforementioned Solstheim boat exit Save, much MUCH faster! Honestly this was almost embarrassing to not have noticed how bad the Autosave actually was! It's like the game stumbles and cannot decide what the hell it's supposed to be doing and just keeps falling over like its shoelaces got tangled up! Can anyone else confirm any of this?
Heroine HoneyCrotch Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, TheAwesomeTRex said: go back to Skyrim with an increased hatred for the Thalmor! my man! -I have been a manual save only dude going back to the ps3 days, I had read manual save was bad and never looked back. I think your right with your suspicions.
Nagib Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 20 minutes ago, TheAwesomeTRex said: Can anyone else confirm any of this? Just disable the autosaves and save normally. The autosaves are hindering the gameplay with all the freezing.
RexxingFlex Posted January 16, 2020 Author Posted January 16, 2020 32 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said: my man! -I have been a manual save only dude going back to the ps3 days, I had read manual save was bad and never looked back. I think your right with your suspicions. 18 minutes ago, Nagib said: Just disable the autosaves and save normally. The autosaves are hindering the gameplay with all the freezing. Glad to hear that I'm not the only one! You know the sad part is that I really like....or at least use to like the AutoSaves in this game! There are three of them, and also there are times that I just keep forgetting to save! And eventually the game either ends doing something stupid or I end up doing something stupid, without me stupid face having saved for the last hour! So the Autosaves were almost like a Godsend in some instances.....a Toddsend If you will! I guess they really were a Toddsend because they just "Work"!
GenioMaestro Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 I know very well that the entire Skyrim community is convinced that AutoSaves are bad, take a long time, do not work ... and it is better to deactivate them. But all that is totally FALSE. AutoSaves work perfectly and have no problem. The game takes exactly the same time to make a manual save as to make an AutoSave. If your game needs 5 seconds to do a manual save you will need the same 5 seconds to do an automatic save when you press the wait key, by default T, for wait one hour. If it takes longer it is because your AutoSaves files have a problem. Go to the save folder and delete all the files that start with "auto". Be sure to delete the files with extension bak because the problem, exactly, is generated by those files with extension bak. I don't know what the game does with them but if you don't delete the files with extension bak the problem persists. If you delete the autosaves with the game the BAK files are NOT deleted and the problem persist. You must go to the savegame folder and MANUALLY delete the files with BAK extension If you also have problems with quicksaves delete all files that start with "quick". -------- I play with 317 mods and 250 plugings in a six years old machine, a simple i5-4460 with a GTX 660 2G, and only have a mechanical hard disk Seagate SATA of 1 TB. I play the same game for more than one year and half, i'm level 141, my savegames have 50 MB and my SKSE co-save have 7 MB but my game only need 5 or 6 seconds for save thegame. I make 6 AutoSaves in less than 30 seconds ussing the wait key: Spoiler
RexxingFlex Posted January 17, 2020 Author Posted January 17, 2020 @GenioMaestro Thanks for the info! It does make sense for it to start having problems due to these files, for again these problems are not present at the beginning of the game! Also your latter statement got me curious about the size of my own save files and for now I'm looking at an average of 20 MB for each, the main files ranging from 16 on the very earlier saves to a maximum of 22 on some of the later ones! The SKSE cosaves range from 1.5 to a maximum 3 MB! No idea if these numbers are good or bad, the game seems to run well enough! I kept the lewd mods to relative minimum! SexLab with one of the older versions of ZAZ are both present, the latter one doesn't see much use...honestly, not sure If I have mods that use it, I think somebody included it in one of the first installation guides I ever saw for Sexlab and it just turned into a habbit including it at this point. Some dialogue mods to initiate sex SLEN, Amorous Adventures, and I've been modifying Sextalk for personal use just to see If I can! ? Added a few animations, not too many Anubis and Milky come to mind, not sure if anything else. As for graphical Overhauls, almost none! Anything related to graphics are some body mods because of course they have to be there: SOS, UNPB, and whatever the stand alone followers bring! Some clothing replacers might count but they only replace meshes no textures, there also some stand alone clothes mostly anything fitting UNPB, but those are old mods and mostly mid to low res. The only graphical mod that could be qualified as an Overhaul is a mod called BlueSky that simply changes the depressing gray to gorgeous blue but only in clear weather though! It's only a tiny texture file no esp or nasty scripts to worry about. As for the system I'm using: The Graphics consist of an "AMD Radeon Hybrid R5 M315" with 2Gigs of DDR3 VRAM memory and some integrated IntelHD who gives a crap thing! The Processor is some sort of low voltage Intel with 2 cores 4 threads 2.2 GHz that can apparently reach up to 2.8 if it really really feels like it needs to melt down that day, the cooling system on this thing is crap. Already lost a keyboard because of it! The Ram consisted of sort of 4 Gig DDR3 Ram when I first bought it years ago, added another 4 to the other slot meanwhile.....not sure if there is any improvement ingame! Mechanical Hard Drive of 500 Gig, might put an SSD there instead one of these days for shits and giggles because I hate money.
Heroine HoneyCrotch Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/540741859579960041/ This a good read on subject. iija makes great points, his main argument is if autosave is screwing you it's problems that are being created/neglected on the users end. The gist of it is Original Skyrim had autosave/save problems, USEEP fixes most/all of that.If your setup is solid with loadorder and you have patches and good ini's autosave should be okay, I say screw that shit man, anytime you don't need to depend on a program to do something you can easily do better,it's a no brainer.
GenioMaestro Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, TheAwesomeTRex said: Also your latter statement got me curious about the size of my own save files and for now I'm looking at an average of 20 MB for each, the main files ranging from 16 on the very earlier saves to a maximum of 22 on some of the later ones! The SKSE cosaves range from 1.5 to a maximum 3 MB! No idea if these numbers are good or bad, the game seems to run well enough! That is totally normal. Look my screenshot. My save 3620 is an automatic savegame made by Alternate Start and have 15 MB. Is a normal size for the first savegame in a modded game. 1 hour ago, TheAwesomeTRex said: The Graphics consist of an "AMD Radeon Hybrid R5 M315" with 2Gigs of DDR3 VRAM memory and some integrated IntelHD who gives a crap thing! You are ussing a laptop with integrated video card but that not mean the game can not works. I can play my game ussing my integrated video card, Intel HD 4600, and the only diference is frame rate. Have a weak machine only force you to play the game in low resolution with low frame rate. Of course, you can need more time for load and save the game because the machine is slow. But the game must works whitout any problem until you install graphical mods not supported by the machine. Simply, install the Stability Tools (SKSE Memory Manager, Crash Fixes 12, ENB with Boost mode) Install SKSE Pluging Preloader for enable OsAllocators in Crash Fixes. Download and run BethIni for optimize your INI files and get a boost in performance and install Animation Limit Crash Fix because you have a weak machine and can give you another performance boost.
Uncle64 Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said: That is totally normal. Look my screenshot. My save 3620 is an automatic savegame made by Alternate Start and have 15 MB. Is a normal size for the first savegame in a modded game. That is actually big, My newest game that I did set up have one startsave of 4.7 mb.
Heroine HoneyCrotch Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, Uncle64 said: That is actually big, My newest game that I did set up have one startsave of 4.7 mb. Mine use to be huge(not that big), till I optized my textures. Huge difference i got out of optimizing textures.
GenioMaestro Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 40 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said: https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/540741859579960041/ This a good read on subject. That post is from 2014-2015 and perfectly show how the Skyrim comunity is divided because some users say "the AutoSaves give problems, disable it" while others users say "Works pefectly for me" Is true that the game has a lot problems, some of them with the savegames. Look the historic list of paches and find "save" but all that problems was solved by Beth in the years 2012-2013. The users that report problem with the saves in the years 2014-2015 not know what they are saying. They have problems but, really, not know WHY they have the problems and, as always, they give their own explanation, acussing the savegames whitout any fundament, when the problem is in other side. Really, the savegames in Skyrim works perfectly 99% of the times, no matter if we make an auto save or a manual save. But is true that, some times, the savegame can be CORRUPT. Only happend one time on each 100 or 200 savegames but happen. In all other cases, the problems are caused by others motives.
GenioMaestro Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 41 minutes ago, Uncle64 said: That is actually big, My newest game that I did set up have one startsave of 4.7 mb. 30 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said: Mine use to be huge(not that big), till I optized my textures. Huge difference i got out of optimizing textures. The normal size of the most basic game, Syrim + DLC's whitout any mod, is near 3 MB. For each mod that you install the size of the savegame is increased. A lot of object from each ESP's are stored inside the savegame, specially quest with automatic start. As more automatic quest you have bigger size at the first savegame. Some mods have a lot of quest whit automatic start, like 3DNPC and Amorous Adventures, while others mods create hundreds of NPC's and object, like Warzones, OBIS, Wenches, Skyrim Inmersive Creatures... I have all of them plus another bunch of big quest mods and all that give me a start savegame of 15 MB. The size of the mesh and textures not have any influence in the size of the savegame. Only the number of objects inside the ESP's can have any influence because the savegame, basically, only store records changed from the original ESP/ESM files. As we advance in the game, starting new quest, learning new spells, getting abilities and perks, storing things in the inventory, chests, killing npc's.. etc.. the size of the savegame increase for store all that things and we can end with savegames of 20, 30, 40, 50 MB whitout any problem. Some months ago my savegames have near 80 MB, whitout any problem, but i remove some mods, clean my savegame and i have now a size near 50 MB working perfectly, of course.
Heroine HoneyCrotch Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said: The size of the mesh and textures not have any influence in the size of the savegame. I called bullshit, tested and confirmed,that you appear to be 100% right. I concede. I must of 86'ed some mods that were jacking my initial save game up around the time I optimized all my textures. Truth is i didn't notice my save game file being smaller till some time after, easily thought optimizing had made contribution to smaller save file, it worked some nice wonders in game for sure. I said screw it and threw into my data folder the unoptimized hi res dlcs and it had no effect on a new save game file which is nicely just under 8.000KB. Still recommend texture optimizing.
RexxingFlex Posted January 17, 2020 Author Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said: That is totally normal. Look my screenshot. My save 3620 is an automatic savegame made by Alternate Start and have 15 MB. Is a normal size for the first savegame in a modded game. You are ussing a laptop with integrated video card but that not mean the game can not works. I can play my game ussing my integrated video card, Intel HD 4600, and the only diference is frame rate. Have a weak machine only force you to play the game in low resolution with low frame rate. Of course, you can need more time for load and save the game because the machine is slow. But the game must works whitout any problem until you install graphical mods not supported by the machine. Simply, install the Stability Tools (SKSE Memory Manager, Crash Fixes 12, ENB with Boost mode) Install SKSE Pluging Preloader for enable OsAllocators in Crash Fixes. Download and run BethIni for optimize your INI files and get a boost in performance and install Animation Limit Crash Fix because you have a weak machine and can give you another performance boost. Glad to hear I'm taking good care of my game! Well at least I'm trying too!? Also this Laptop does not actually use the inegrated Graphics card to run the game, that one is mostly reserved for video and non gaming stuff or when running on batteries! It actually has a dedicated graphic card that it uses for more demanding tasks such as gaming! Granted it's no gaming rig but it will run any PS3 and XBox360 era game no problem!
Uncle64 Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 56 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said: The normal size of the most basic game, Syrim + DLC's whitout any mod, is near 3 MB. For each mod that you install the size of the savegame is increased. snip Yea that is correct and it gets bigger the more you start up and add. But 80 is little big. But as you say, it depends on the mods you have in it. Did have one 155 that was heavy bloated. Did find the issue, fixed the loadorder and the save did go down to 60 in next save. No need for savetools. Played on for 20 hours no issues at all. 1 hour ago, Heroine of the Night said: Mine use to be huge(not that big), till I optized my textures. Huge difference i got out of optimizing textures. Ehh, when did the game start to add textures in the save? That is new. If it should be doing that the saves should be like 400-500 megs. But it saves scripts that is running and so on. But no textures or meshes at all.
Heroine HoneyCrotch Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 48 minutes ago, Uncle64 said: Ehh, when did the game start to add textures in the save? That is new. I tested and confirmed I was mistaken, I added to my data folder the unoptimized hi res dlc to test and 100%, made no difference. I'm a jerk.
Potato_Skill Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 Well, to my experience w/ long Autosave, it takes quite some time to overwrite an existing Autosave. Since you most likely have a maximum of 3 Autosave files present at a time, you'll find yourself overwriting them a lot (opening doors, waiting, sleeping,...). The reason I jumped to this conclusion is that I once tried deleting all of my Autosave related files and launching the game. The 3 next times Autosave occurred, everything went fast, after that, it took its time loading/autosaving again. Just my two cents.
Grey Cloud Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, Potato_Skill said: The reason I jumped to this conclusion is that I once tried deleting all of my Autosave related files and launching the game. The 3 next times Autosave occurred, everything went fast, after that, it took its time loading/autosaving again. Just my two cents. That's because you didn't change what was causing the large save size, i.e. the type of thing Genio mentioned above, so once you start saving again the size issue recurs.
GenioMaestro Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 49 minutes ago, Potato_Skill said: Well, to my experience w/ long Autosave, it takes quite some time to overwrite an existing Autosave. The computer only need some miliseconds to rename a file. The problem is not caused by the rename. Probably is caused because the new autosave have a diferent structure to the old BAK file. If the internal structures of the files autosaveX.ess and autosaveX.ess.bak not match the game can go crazy. Can need up to 1 minute to make an autosave when the normal manual save only need 5 seconds. Deleting ALL "auto" files, including the BAK files, solve the problem. When the internal structure of the files match the game can made 6 autosaves in 30 seconds. The problem can start when we add mods, remove mods, update mods... Any of that operations can cause a change in the internal structure of the savegames. I have the problem of "slow autosaves" a lot of times because i change my mod list every week whithout start a new game. A lot of times i must MANUALLY delete all my "auto" and "quick" files. Not happend always, not happend to me every week, but i have that exact problem, at least, one time each month. 17 hours ago, GenioMaestro said: If you delete the autosaves with the game the BAK files are NOT deleted and the problem persist. You must go to the savegame folder and MANUALLY delete the files with BAK extension
Potato_Skill Posted January 18, 2020 Posted January 18, 2020 9 hours ago, GenioMaestro said: The computer only need some miliseconds to rename a file. The problem is not caused by the rename. Probably is caused because the new autosave have a diferent structure to the old BAK file.... Man, you're right. What are those .BAK files for? I noticed that if I load another character save and then autosave with that save, a .BAK file is created and it takes longer time to make an autosave.
Potato_Skill Posted January 18, 2020 Posted January 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Grey Cloud said: That's because you didn't change what was causing the large save size, i.e. the type of thing Genio mentioned above, so once you start saving again the size issue recurs. I think my save size is in the safe zone, man. It sits around 4mb at the start of the game and 15.8mb at level 30-ish. No bloated saves sighted yet.
GenioMaestro Posted January 18, 2020 Posted January 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Potato_Skill said: Man, you're right. What are those .BAK files for? I noticed that if I load another character save and then autosave with that save, a .BAK file is created and it takes longer time to make an autosave. These BAK files are a simple backup of the previous save. They are created automatically, only and exclusively, to be able to recover the old savegame when the new one fails. I have never needed to recover the saved game from the BAK and I don't know a person who need make it. I not know, exactly, WHY a diferent structure of the BAK files can slow down the AutoSaves in that way. But I know very well that the "Slow Autosave" problem is caused by these BAK files. Years ago I had a lot of problems with AutoSaves and created my own BAK file cleaner, a simple batch process with 4 lines. Look: Quote :start del "C:\Users\[UserName]\Documents\My Games\Skyrim\Saves\*.bak" timeout 60 goto start borra_bak-public.cmd If you want to use it, you must change [UserName] to your real username. If you use MO you will have to change the path to the folder where MO have the savegames.
Potato_Skill Posted January 19, 2020 Posted January 19, 2020 On 1/18/2020 at 6:15 PM, GenioMaestro said: These BAK files are a simple backup of the previous save. They are created automatically, only and exclusively, to be able to recover the old savegame when the new one fails. I have never needed to recover the saved game from the BAK and I don't know a person who need make it.... Does your script detect bak files and delete them every 60 seconds or something? I don't understand why the game keeps making these backups.
GenioMaestro Posted January 19, 2020 Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Potato_Skill said: Does your script detect bak files and delete them every 60 seconds or something? YES, does exactly that. 1 hour ago, Potato_Skill said: I don't understand why the game keeps making these backups. As i said, the game make it automatically. But SKSE not make any backup. The BAK files are totally unusefull whitout the corresponding SKSE co-save. We can deleted it whitout any problem.
Potato_Skill Posted January 19, 2020 Posted January 19, 2020 Ah I see. Well, thank you, that's good to know. I'd love to have a boost in terms of autosave, too. I just didn't know what your script was intended for. So, the way I see this, I will run both your script and the game at the same time? Isn't it going to make an impact on the performance? (the frequency is quite high - every 60 secs).
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