What causes this? Invisible monster and frame drop

[MadMansGun]

wow, you guys have gone way off course....

bad leveled actor lists can cause invisible actors, but that is a list problem, not a NPC problem, looking at the NPC's id in the console won't help you here.

it's also a extremely rare problem to encounter.

 

also a load order has not been posted yet, so shooting in the dark like this is kind of pointless when we can't see what we are shooting at.

[Aki K]

7 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

wow, you guys have gone way off course....

bad leveled actor lists can cause invisible actors, but that is a list problem, not a NPC problem, looking at the NPC's id in the console won't help you here.

it's also a extremely rare problem to encounter.

 

also a load order has not been posted yet, so shooting in the dark like this is kind of pointless when we can't see what we are shooting at.

Interesting.  And yes, I forgot the load order.  I'll add it below.  How would I fix a bad leveled actor list?

 

Spoiler

  0  0     Skyrim.esm
  1  1     Update.esm
  2  2     Dawnguard.esm
  3  3     HearthFires.esm
  4  4     Dragonborn.esm
  5  5     Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp
  6  6     hdtHighHeel.esm
  7  7     ApachiiHairMales.esm
  8  8     RaceCompatibility.esm
  9  9     SexLab.esm
 10  a     SexLabAroused.esm
 11  b     Devious Devices - Assets.esm
 12  c     Devious Devices - Integration.esm
 13  d     ZaZAnimationPack.esm
 14  e     Heels Sound.esm
 15  f     Apachii_DivineEleganceStore.esm
 16 10     Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
 17 11     CreatureFramework.esm
 18 12     Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm
 19 13     Vampire Slavers Den v2.0.esm
 20 14     HentaiPregnancy.esm
 21 15     FNIS.esp
 22 16     SkyUI.esp
 23 17     XPMSE.esp
 24 18     RaceMenuMimic.esp
 25 19     Brows.esp
 26 1a     REP_Tattoos.esp
 27 1b     EyesFix.esp
 28 1c     Merta Assassin Tattoos.esp
 29 1d     Animated Dragon Wings.esp
 30 1e     BanneredMareImmersiveSexualPlayground.esp
 31 1f     UBWRe.esp
 32 20     Thunderchild - Epic Shout Package.esp
 33 21     Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer.esp
 34 22     ParticleField.esp
 35 23     Deviously Cursed Loot.esp
 36 24     Fachry Raven the Titan Follower.esp
 37 25     lilithstools.esp
 38 26     EtR_HearthfireDungeonAddon.esp
 39 27     SexLab-Parasites.esp
 40 28     Apachii_DivineEleganceStore_Patch.esp
 41 29     MoreNastyCritters.esp
 42 2a     KillCurse.esp
 43 2b     Killable Lootable Children for Hearthfires.esp
 44 2c     RavenCastle.esp
 45 2d     Schlongs of Skyrim.esp
 46 2e     SOS - Shop.esp
 47 2f     The Manipulator.esp
 48 30     LairOfDarkness.esp
 49 31     DarkEnvoy.esp
 50 32     Harry Potter Spells.esp
 51 33     SummonVampireCattle.esp
 52 34     SuccubusRaceLite.esp
 53 35     Merta Assassin Armor.esp
 54 36     RaceCompatibilityUSKPOverride.esp
 55 37     FNIS_PCEA2.esp
 56 38     VioLens.esp
 57 39     FNISSexyMove.esp
 58 3a     RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
 59 3b     CROSS_Crucible.esp
 60 3c     Warlock axe Nexus.esp
 61 3d     Masamune.esp
 62 3e     SL Deadly Drain.esp
 63 3f     SexLab Aroused Creatures.esp
 64 40     Apropos2.esp
 65 41     zzEstrus.esp
 66 42     TweaksMagicTouchCrafting.esp
 67 43     SLAnimLoader.esp
 68 44     Private Needs Discreet.esp
 69 45     DLSkyrim.esp
 70 46     ShadowSpellPackage.esp
 71 47     SexLabDefeat.esp
 72 48     UIExtensions.esp
 73 49     SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp
 74 4a     MikanEyes All in one.esp
 75 4b     SlaveTats.esp
 76 4c     SLALAnimObj.esp
 77 4d     SLALAnimObjBillyy.esp
 78 4e     no_guard_warning_after_shouts.esp
 79 4f     Random Vampire Attacks in Towns Disabled.esp
 80 50     RaceMenu.esp
 81 51     RaceMenuPlugin.esp
 82 52     DW.esp
 83 53     [COCO]ms_shirt.esp
 84 54     LindsMerEyes.esp
 85 55     Tempest.esp
 86 56     TeraSuccubusArmor.esp
 87 57     C5Kev's Animated Tentacle Parasite Armor.esp
 88 58     Rayg_NoBYOHAttacks.esp
 89 59     SGEyebrows.esp
 90 5a     Real Flying.esp
 91 5b     SuccubusRaceRealFlyingPatch.esp
 92 5c     AddItemMenuLE.esp
 93 5d     [dint]_NeirAutomataHDT.esp
 94 5e     Angelic_Demonic.esp
 95 5f     TERA-Masks.esp
 96 60     [COCO]sexypunk.esp
 97 61     [COCO]wedding_2B.esp
 98 62     [COCO]KDA_Ahri_Full.esp
 99 63     RaceChanger.esp
100 64     mcgDwarvenDeviousCuirass.esp
101 65     SummonWhiteSpider.esp
102 66     NewVampChainsCuirass.esp
103 67     _ImoMegane.esp
104 68     HentaiCreatures.esp
105 69     Za Warudo.esp
106 6a     Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dawnguard.esp
107 6b     Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dragonborn.esp
108 6c     ColdharbourDaedra.esp
109 6d     LinkleOutfit.esp
110 6e     [Dint999] KSH's HDT.esp
111 6f     Fachry ZONE-tan Follower.esp
112 70     Celes Nightingale Armor.esp
113 71     Incarnatecreatures.esp
114 72     Daedric Chainmail CBBE.esp
115 73     Cassandra Frost Witch.esp
116 74     SLRetread.esp
117 75     SpaceWikingSpecialEffectFreyjaGems.esp
118 76     LustmordVampireArmor.esp
119 77     SimpleOutfitManager.esp
120 78     Celes Rogue Armor UNP LE.esp
121 79     Demon Armor UNP LE.esp
122 7a     FNIS_PCEA2RaceSwitchFix.esp
123 7b     Angel Armor Ori.esp
124 7c     C5Kev's Animated Living Armor Colors CBBE.esp
125 7d     C5Kev's Hermaeus Mora Tomes.esp
126 7e     Daedric Reaper Armor.esp
127 7f     C5Kev's Herme Mora Priestess CBBE.esp
128 80     Crimson Blood Armor.esp
129 81     SOS Equipable Schlong.esp
130 82     Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
131 83     Sacrosanct - Vampires of Skyrim.esp
132 84     SexLab_Solutions.esp
133 85     EstrusChaurus.esp
134 86     SexLab Eager NPCs.esp
135 87     SCS_RacePatch_Succubus.esp
136 88     Deviously Cursed Loot LAL AddOn.esp
137 89     Bashed Patch, 0.esp
 

 

[MadMansGun]

35 minutes ago, Aki K said:

137 89     Bashed Patch, 0.esp

the problem is here

On 10/12/2019 at 9:23 PM, MadMansGun said:

....also bash/smash patches are known to make creatures invisible as well, they sometimes fuck with the body template flags.

delete the "armor" and "armor addon" from that esp, if that fails then try deleting "leveled npc"

[donttouchmethere]

As MadMansGun said,

 

and if you have more than one armor replacer => move the one you want to win below the bashed patch or flag it as "not to be bashed"

Still it doesn't explain why you get FPS drop if that happens, you would just get invisible armor parts.

 

FPS drop happens also with standalone skeletons by followers, maybe for creatures too?

You could also move your XPMSE down in LO and deactivate the XPMSE Cloak in MCM

[Aki K]

22 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

As MadMansGun said,

 

and if you have more than one armor replacer => move the one you want to win below the bashed patch or flag it as "not to be bashed"

Still it doesn't explain why you get FPS drop if that happens, you would just get invisible armor parts.

 

FPS drop happens also with standalone skeletons by followers, maybe for creatures too?

You could also move your XPMSE down in LO and deactivate the XPMSE Cloak in MCM

Ok.  To be honest I don't fully understand how bashed patches work or how to flag something not to be bashed.

 

If I delete the addons in the bashed patch, will the armors themselves still work etc.?

 

The only reason I have a bashed patch is because someone told me it would improve game stability.

 

 

I don't think I have any followers with standalone skeletons.  I think all the ones I use are pretty standard.

 

 

What is XPMSE cloak?  I can turn it off but what would that do specifically?  How would that effect the game otherwise?

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, Aki K said:

What is XPMSE cloak?  I can turn it off but what would that do specifically?  How would that effect the game otherwise?

If you change the weapon position (sword on back for example) for NPC, XPMSE will poll the area around the PC for NPCs to change the weapon position.

Same goes for the weapon position randomizer (think it's called "style" in MCM).

 

If deactivated, the NPCs will run around with the vanilla weapon positions and you have one less mod that polls the area, if that is an issue for your setup.

 

Chances are low that this is your issue, because you would always see a FPS drop with many NPCs close by.

Also doesn't cause invisible actors.

 

1 hour ago, Aki K said:

Ok.  To be honest I don't fully understand how bashed patches work or how to flag something not to be bashed.

The bashed patch solves lvl list conflicts, like multiple mods that like to spawn creatures/hostiles/NPCs from the same list.

But it will also try to solve conflicts between -for example-multiple armor replacers => the bad thing is that you might not want those conflicts to be solved and only the last one in LO should win. Bashed patch doesn't know what armor parts you want to win and you get an evil mix between armor names (non english skyrim), textures, meshes.

 

If you don't have multiple spawn mods (like for example vanilla+SIC+SDcages+Deadly Wenches+HoneypopcornSO) you won't need a bashed patch for this.

 

The patch also solves loot list conflicts, for example if multiple mods try to add different items to the same loot list.

 

Also great to merge mod-patches to save plugin slots.

 

If you use bashed patch and you want to be sure your fav armor replacer wins against all, just move it below bashed patch.

 

1 hour ago, Aki K said:

If I delete the addons in the bashed patch, will the armors themselves still work etc.?

Yes, because it's the same as if you move the armor replacer below the bashed patch or don't add them to the bashed patch at all.

Means the last armor replacer in LO will win again.

 

 

So far I saw the invisible armor issue with bashed patch a lot with multiple replacers (for example BD UUNP armor replacer + Bikini armor replacer)

 

Then again, I never had invisible actors/MNC modified creatures with a bashed patch, maybe I was just lucky ?‍♂️

 

Although multiple NPC replacers + bashed patch can cause gray faces even if the LO is right (same issue as with the armor replacers, bashed patch tries to solve conflicts)

 

 

If you don't need to save plugin slots with bashed patch, but still want to resolve conflicts in your LO, you could try create a TESVmergedpatch instead or a smash patch.

 

[MadMansGun]

2 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

Then again, I never had invisible actors/MNC modified creatures with a bashed patch, maybe I was just lucky

horses are well known to get hit the hardest by it, but other creatures sometimes get hit as well.

 

(also you don't want that xp32 skeleton stuff to be loaded/installed after MNC, it messes up the creature dicks.)

[donttouchmethere]

21 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

horses are well known to get hit the hardest by it, but other creatures sometimes get hit as well.

 

(also you don't want that xp32 skeleton stuff to be loaded/installed after MNC, it messes up the creature dicks.)

I still use NMM, so files get physically overwritten and the position in LO is only interesting for the rest of the mod.

 

So far I let XPMSE files (!) overwritten by:

> ABC

> MNC? can't remember if it overwrites files from xpmse, need to try again ?

> animated Parasites 1.5.1 (not atm, using 1.5.3 because:)

> better Female wrists hands ankles and leg ratio twists for XPMSE 1.93-98974-1-93-1569157716

 

so with NMM I still have XPMSE at the end of the LO

BUT

I guess that would be terrible wrong with MO?

 

(maybe that caused my dragon transformation issue too, bashed patch doesn't like the little dragon and throws out a warning. On the other hand it ended up below XPMSE because of that... maybe thats wrong too? confusing >.<)

 

[Aki K]

8 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

horses are well known to get hit the hardest by it, but other creatures sometimes get hit as well.

 

(also you don't want that xp32 skeleton stuff to be loaded/installed after MNC, it messes up the creature dicks.)

It seems like XP32 is loading before MNC in my load order.  So I think I'm good there.

 

 

7 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

I still use NMM, so files get physically overwritten and the position in LO is only interesting for the rest of the mod.

 

So far I let XPMSE files (!) overwritten by:

> ABC

> MNC? can't remember if it overwrites files from xpmse, need to try again ?

> animated Parasites 1.5.1 (not atm, using 1.5.3 because:)

> better Female wrists hands ankles and leg ratio twists for XPMSE 1.93-98974-1-93-1569157716

 

so with NMM I still have XPMSE at the end of the LO

BUT

I guess that would be terrible wrong with MO?

 

(maybe that caused my dragon transformation issue too, bashed patch doesn't like the little dragon and throws out a warning. On the other hand it ended up below XPMSE because of that... maybe thats wrong too? confusing >.<)

 

I am using MO as my mod manager.  I've been advised to go to vortex, but at the moment I don't feel the reasons to switch are compelling enough.

 

In regards to the armors, so far I don't have any trouble at all with my armor mods.  All of them work as intended.  It is only a creature issue, and not at all the horses.  My issue is almost completely with wolves, and only about 5% of the random encounters, plus one that always happens by the hot springs.  On rare occasion a random encounter with falmer or chaurus also trigger the issue.  But that's probably less than 1% of the time.

 

So, as I understand things.  The bashed patch should be the first order of business.  So, let's say (accurately) I don't really know what I'm doing.  What should I KEEP in the bashed patch?

 

Also, gonna turn off the XMPSE cloak.  I was wondering why NPCs were carrying their swords like that.  I wanted them to carry vanilla anyway.  So good to know, even if it is unrelated to my issue.

 

EDIT: I looked into my bashed files.  I don't see anything related to XPMSE or most of my armors.  However, there was data from some mods I deleted a looooong time ago.  I don't think its related because I had the problem even before those mods were installed, but might help.  Gonna see if I can attach a picture to show what's in the overwrite folders so maybe you can give me some more direct advice.

[Grey Cloud]

About the Bashed Patch:

Deactivate it to see if it helps. At least it will take it out of the equation.

You are supposed to update the patch anytime you change your mods so if it contains info about mods you no longer use then it needs to be sorted out.

[Aki K]

So, here's what the folder have.  The meshes folder includes a lot of sub folders, but nothing to do with skeletons etc.  Just behavior and character files, one per folder.  There's one of each for every animal in skyrim, but nothing jumps out as out of the ordinary between them.  Spriggan have the same number of files here as wolves, but Spriggan work fine.

 

 

Not sure what vMYC is, but it only has files for Apropos.

 

Most of the other folders are empty or near empty.  And most armors don't have files in the patch, only a few.

[donttouchmethere]

7 minutes ago, Aki K said:

In regards to the armors, so far I don't have any trouble at all with my armor mods. 

Armors are just an example for things that can get messed up by bashed patch.

Means creature/NPC from mods can get messed up the same way.

 

10 minutes ago, Aki K said:

However, there was data from some mods I deleted a looooong time ago.

Don't tell me you never rebuild that bashed patch >.<

Or like Grey Cloud said ?

[MadMansGun]

16 minutes ago, Aki K said:

I am using MO as my mod manager.  I've been advised to go to vortex, but at the moment I don't feel the reasons to switch are compelling enough.

don't use vortex, stay with MO.

16 minutes ago, Aki K said:

In regards to the armors, so far I don't have any trouble at all with my armor mods.  All of them work as intended.  It is only a creature issue, and not at all the horses.  My issue is almost completely with wolves, and only about 5% of the random encounters, plus one that always happens by the hot springs.  On rare occasion a random encounter with falmer or chaurus also trigger the issue.  But that's probably less than 1% of the time.

MNC counts as a armor mod, all body meshes are considered to be "armor" by the game and use the same system.

 

 

[Aki K]

13 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

Armors are just an example for things that can get messed up by bashed patch.

Means creature/NPC from mods can get messed up the same way.

 

Don't tell me you never rebuild that bashed patch >.<

Or like Grey Cloud said ?

How do you rebuild a bashed patch?  Nobody ever explained this sort of thing to me.

 

Also, I disabled the XPMSE cloak, but the mod still says its active, and NPCs are still carrying the daggers on their back.  I also noticed my mod had them set to carry it default anyway, even with the cloak.  Long story short, the cloak won't turn off via MCM and they were doing a behavior I hadn't set them to do to begin with.  Any ideas regarding that?  Could something else be causing the XPMSE cloak effect to remain on?  Also, all of the check tabs keep saying "you barely made it."  I don't remember barely making anything.  Is that because it's so high in my load order?

[donttouchmethere]

30 minutes ago, Aki K said:

How do you rebuild a bashed patch?  Nobody ever explained this sort of thing to me.

in wyre bash mods tab (LO view) => right click on the bashed patch => choose "rebuild patch..." => bashed patch rebuild window pops up

 

you will have to that every time you change something in your loadorder,

or to be more precise every time:

> a mod that is bashed patch related gets moved/removed/updated

> if you add a mod that needs to be added to bashed patch

> LO changes

> if you add a mod that changes the tweaks you have manipulated during bashed patch generation (like bounties, max possible AI during combat, max summons and stuff like that)

 

To be on the save side just rebuild it every time you change something in LO ABOVE the bashed patch.

Not needed if you add/remove mods below the bashed patch.

 

 

About the XPMSE cloak, if deactivated the only thing that changes is that XPMSE will stop polling NPC to check for randomizing/ changing position

 

if you didn't change the dagger position in XPMSE for NPC, but they wear them still on their backs, than something else changes the weapon position or it takes a while till the position is removed from all NPC.

XPMSE comes with a style randomizer, so you don't need to change weapon position in XPMSE manually, but that should stop if you deactivate the cloak ?‍♂️

 

[donttouchmethere]

34 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

MNC counts as a armor mod, all body meshes are considered to be "armor" by the game and use the same system.

now the horror is confirmed and all makes sense =D

 

33 minutes ago, Aki K said:

How do you rebuild a bashed patch?  Nobody ever explained this sort of thing to me.

Maybe if you just rebuild the bashed patch your issues are gone already.

I can't imagine what evil things can happen with a never refreshed bashed patch ?

[Grey Cloud]

3 hours ago, Aki K said:

  Nobody ever explained this sort of thing to me.

The Wrye Bash documentation explained it to me. ?

[Aki K]

1 hour ago, donttouchmethere said:

in wyre bash mods tab (LO view) => right click on the bashed patch => choose "rebuild patch..." => bashed patch rebuild window pops up

 

you will have to that every time you change something in your loadorder,

or to be more precise every time:

> a mod that is bashed patch related gets moved/removed/updated

> if you add a mod that needs to be added to bashed patch

> LO changes

> if you add a mod that changes the tweaks you have manipulated during bashed patch generation (like bounties, max possible AI during combat, max summons and stuff like that)

 

To be on the save side just rebuild it every time you change something in LO ABOVE the bashed patch.

Not needed if you add/remove mods below the bashed patch.

 

 

About the XPMSE cloak, if deactivated the only thing that changes is that XPMSE will stop polling NPC to check for randomizing/ changing position

 

if you didn't change the dagger position in XPMSE for NPC, but they wear them still on their backs, than something else changes the weapon position or it takes a while till the position is removed from all NPC.

XPMSE comes with a style randomizer, so you don't need to change weapon position in XPMSE manually, but that should stop if you deactivate the cloak ?‍♂️

 

Okay.  Guess I'm gonna give all this a try.  And if I keep encountering weird invisible things, I'll know.

 

But just to ask one more time and be certain, how do I flag something not to be included in the bashed patch?

[Aki K]

So this just happened.  Never happened before.  Advice?  It seems to be under the impression that the folder is somehow open already, so i can't load it.

[Grey Cloud]

4 minutes ago, Aki K said:

But just to ask one more time and be certain, how do I flag something not to be included in the bashed patch?

Here ?

[Aki K]

7 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Here ?

Thanks but now I have a whole new issue.  Was told to post the following error into the forums, but it seems like hundreds of people have encountered the same error and fucking nobody on the forums is helping anyone with it.  So I can't even get Wyre bash to launch.

 

Spoiler

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bash\bash.pyo", line 227, in main
  File "bash\bash.pyo", line 393, in _main
  File "bash\basher\__init__.pyo", line 3981, in Init
  File "bash\basher\__init__.pyo", line 4018, in InitData
  File "bash\bosh\__init__.pyo", line 1955, in refresh
  File "bash\bosh\__init__.pyo", line 1702, in _modinfos_cache_wrapper
  File "bash\bosh\__init__.pyo", line 1810, in refreshLoadOrder
  File "bash\load_order.pyo", line 300, in refresh_lo
  File "bash\load_order.pyo", line 250, in _update_cache
  File "bash\games.pyo", line 227, in get_load_order
  File "bash\games.pyo", line 246, in _cached_or_fetch
  File "bash\games.pyo", line 676, in _fetch_load_order
KeyError: bolt.Path(u'SkyUI.esp')
 

 

[donttouchmethere]

19 minutes ago, Aki K said:

So this just happened.  Never happened before.  Advice?  It seems to be under the impression that the folder is somehow open already, so i can't load it.

Uhm, never saw that before either ?

 

You have another program open that uses the files or folders of your mods and Skyrim?

Does steam just download updates?

Try and start wrye bash with admin rights (especially if you have skyrim in c:\program files installed)

[Aki K]

5 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

Uhm, never saw that before either ?

 

You have another program open that uses the files or folders of your mods and Skyrim?

I don't.  I have no idea what this is.  I tried checking out the forum, but nobody is doing anything.  Just pages and pages of people posting the same error message with nobody responding except to ask for help themselves.

 

Is there a way to find out what other programs are using it?

[Grey Cloud]

It mentions SkyUI so that would be the place to start. Failing that, delete the Bashed Patch, uninstall Wrye Bash and return to the original problem of the wolves.

[Aki K]

Well...Consider Wyre bash not an option.  Turns out it has to do with both MO and Windows 10 of all fucking things.  Apparently I need to get an update to my OS.  Problem is, I already have the update.  So, in short, I cannot use Wyre bash again.  Not without changing my entire setup and restarting from scratch.  I don't want to do that.

 

So is there another program aside from Wyre bash I can use?  Preferably one that's got a more supportive community?