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What causes this? Invisible monster and frame drop


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So my Skyrim is running pretty smooth lately as long as I don't do anything stupid.  But every once in a while I get a severe drop in frame rate or significant lag (same thing?).  The cause is always coupled with an invisible monster attacking me (i know this because I hear attacking sounds but don't see anything.  It does show up on the enemy radar).  The lag is immediately gone if the monster dies either from being attacked or if I use a console command to kill it.

 

Most common invisible monsters are Wolves (especially by the hot spring area), but sometimes chaurus, mammoth, and falmer.   Not all of them are invisible, it's usually a random one or two as I play.  And with the exception of the hot springs wolf, whether its an invisible or visible enemy seems random.  Frame rate only drops for invisible monsters.  Visible ones allow the game to play as normal.

 

I don't understand what the cause it though.  If it were a texture mod or something that modifies the body of certain species, wouldn't it effect all of them?

 

Does anyone know of a mod that causes this?  I can't seem to pinpoint a particular mod as the cause.

 

It's a rare issue, but a very annoying one when it pops up.

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One possible cause for this especially if it is encounter zone npc...

Some of the npc that use lvl character lists to be created start out as fox race, then some scripts and/or using level actor templates they become whatever npc you end up encountering. If something is conflicting with those scripts or if some mod has changed one of the follow on templates that actor was expected to use you end up with an invisible fox that may belong to whatever faction was spawned in the encounter. It can be very hard to track down what npc it is and why it's doing this though.

 

To find an example look in npc find something like lvlanimalcoastsnowpredator and follow the scripts used as well as finding all of the template actors used and what parts are used. The reason it can be hard to find which npc is the problem is there is no way to see the npc or get an id from them since they have no mesh to look at or target with the pointer.

 

I have  a similar bug with an old version of immersive patrols where one of the imperial soldiers will spawn as an invisible fox up near ivarstead and I sometimes come across this because storm cloaks are chasing it around and it makes funny squeaking sounds when they hit it.

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on it's own MNC should not do that, but if you have ASOS, ABC, or "HDT all in one" then it is a possibility.

 

....also bash/smash patches are known to make creatures invisible as well, they sometimes fuck with the body template flags.

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9 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

on it's own MNC should not do that, but if you have ASOS, ABC, or "HDT all in one" then it is a possibility.

 

....also bash/smash patches are known to make creatures invisible as well, they sometimes fuck with the body template flags.

Don't have any of those.  I have SMP HDT, but I don't think that's the same as HDT all in one.  As far as I can tell it only applies to humanoid characters the way I have it set up.  But I've never been all that clear on how SMP works or how to set it up.

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10 hours ago, RW311 said:

One possible cause for this especially if it is encounter zone npc...

Some of the npc that use lvl character lists to be created start out as fox race, then some scripts and/or using level actor templates they become whatever npc you end up encountering. If something is conflicting with those scripts or if some mod has changed one of the follow on templates that actor was expected to use you end up with an invisible fox that may belong to whatever faction was spawned in the encounter. It can be very hard to track down what npc it is and why it's doing this though.

 

To find an example look in npc find something like lvlanimalcoastsnowpredator and follow the scripts used as well as finding all of the template actors used and what parts are used. The reason it can be hard to find which npc is the problem is there is no way to see the npc or get an id from them since they have no mesh to look at or target with the pointer.

 

I have  a similar bug with an old version of immersive patrols where one of the imperial soldiers will spawn as an invisible fox up near ivarstead and I sometimes come across this because storm cloaks are chasing it around and it makes funny squeaking sounds when they hit it.

I am able to get a console target on them, even though they are invisible.  And it makes the sounds of the appropriate monster, so I don't think it's a fox (though I suppose it could have been one if it is a leveled monster).  I can get a console lock on it by clicking anywhere and scrolling the mouse wheel.  I usually do this to use the kill command to end the lag.  On the rare times I can't get a lock I use the killall command.

 

So assuming I can get the I.D. (base ID or ref ID?)  What's the next step?

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38 minutes ago, Aki K said:

So assuming I can get the I.D. (base ID or ref ID?)  What's the next step?

Well if you can get it with the console it should tell you what sort of creature/thing it is. It should also tell you which mod made the last change to it.

I can never remember whether it's base of ref ID.

Either way go to XEdit and look at the creature/thing in whatever mod was named and you should see all the mods which use that creature/thing.

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30 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Well if you can get it with the console it should tell you what sort of creature/thing it is. It should also tell you which mod made the last change to it.

I can never remember whether it's base of ref ID.

Either way go to XEdit and look at the creature/thing in whatever mod was named and you should see all the mods which use that creature/thing.

And then what?  For example, let's assume MNC made the last edit.  I don't want to delete MNC, but as I've said MNC is the only mod I suspect since I don't have any others changing animals.  Is there a way to force the model/creature I want?

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2 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

You could still go to XEdit and find wolf in, e.g. MNC and see what other mods crop up.

Not seeing anything unusual for wolves.  Werewolf boss (or Werewolf Alpha) is in red, but I don't know what I should be looking for.

 

There also appear to be listed NPC types I've never heard of.  For example, there is something called a Drascua in the list.  Never encountered one of those.  Maybe a named monster in a dungeon I never visit?

 

Leveled frostbite spiders appear highlighted in a more teal color, but they don't cause the gltich.  Only wolves, chaurus, and falmer.  Usually wolves.

 

So far no conflicts or issues that I can see.  But again, I don't know what I am looking for.  If I apply filter for conflict losers, I only see a conflict with "naked Chaurus".  Being overwritten with Estrus apparently.  But that doesn't explain the wolves, which are the biggest source of the glitch.  It's pretty rare for Chaurus or falmer to cause the issue.  99% of the time they spawn properly.  Wolves It's like 90% of the time they spawn properly.  Maybe.  Either way, I don't think the estrus conflict is related.

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4 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

Sorry but I can't think of anything else. Stumped.

Might just have to live with it and hope its solved next reinstall cycle.  Though this cycle has been super stable otherwise so that could be a while.

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Looking for mod conflicts will probably not work or would take a long time even if that's all it is.

The referenced by tab in xedit is what you need to use but first you will need a base id or it will take a really long time to even know which npc to start from, you will have multiple npcs in that list so you will be looking for any of the referenced actors that could have been spawned that have conflict in use base data flag or possibly there is a conflict in the level npc list itself with the level flags or one of the npcs in the list has conflict with id of another npc. Looking at mod conflicts or just looking at wolves is not where you want to start, you may think npc is a wolf but that may not be true to what the level list was trying to spawn at that encounter zone and that is what voice you ended up with only because it failed to find npc with use base data that was complete in order to load worn armor and skeleton also possible it had two template actors in the list fighting over base data not sure who wins in that instance.

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13 hours ago, RW311 said:

Looking for mod conflicts will probably not work or would take a long time even if that's all it is.

The referenced by tab in xedit is what you need to use but first you will need a base id or it will take a really long time to even know which npc to start from, you will have multiple npcs in that list so you will be looking for any of the referenced actors that could have been spawned that have conflict in use base data flag or possibly there is a conflict in the level npc list itself with the level flags or one of the npcs in the list has conflict with id of another npc. Looking at mod conflicts or just looking at wolves is not where you want to start, you may think npc is a wolf but that may not be true to what the level list was trying to spawn at that encounter zone and that is what voice you ended up with only because it failed to find npc with use base data that was complete in order to load worn armor and skeleton also possible it had two template actors in the list fighting over base data not sure who wins in that instance.

This might be too technical for me.  Let me see if I get the basics.  If I am wrong about anything, please try to explain in very plain terms.

 

1.  If/when the issue occurs again, get the base ID for that unit.  Search for the base I.D. in TESedit.

2.  See if different actors are set for the same base I.D.

3.  Then do what?  Delete conflicting actors?

 

And from the gist of the process, this is something I would need to do each time I reinstalled the game if I want to use the same mods.  It doesn't sound like there's a way to save this kind of work.  I mean, it's a small issue so if I take care of the problem locations/spawns it wouldn't take long to do it each time.  But I am trying to streamline things.

 

Also, since the problem is with "leveled npcs" does that mean the level of my PC alters the problem?  Like if I increase my level from 20 to 30, would it maybe cause the proper NPC to spawn?  Or am I misunderstanding the problem in that regard?

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21 minutes ago, Aki K said:

Also, since the problem is with "leveled npcs" does that mean the level of my PC alters the problem?  Like if I increase my level from 20 to 30, would it maybe cause the proper NPC to spawn?  Or am I misunderstanding the problem in that regard?

I can't comment on the rest of it but what this means is that, say at (PC) level 10 a wolf is spawned at that place, at level 15 it might be a sabrecat and at level 20 a bear. So if your problem is with wolves then it will not manifest at level 15 or 20.

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20 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

I can't comment on the rest of it but what this means is that, say at (PC) level 10 a wolf is spawned at that place, at level 15 it might be a sabrecat and at level 20 a bear. So if your problem is with wolves then it will not manifest at level 15 or 20.

What??? At level 1 it's a bunny and at level 50 it's Alduin. lol

All Npc's (allmost all) level up with the Player. Up to a certain level limit

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26 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

What??? At level 1 it's a bunny and at level 50 it's Alduin. lol

All Npc's (allmost all) level up with the Player. Up to a certain level limit

A. It was a simple illustration.

B. Not in my game. Mods such as SIC and High level Enemies do things to enemies. My current PC is about level 38, I get attacked by level 6 wolves and level 38 wolves. There are no dragons.

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10 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

A. It was a simple illustration.

B. Not in my game. Mods such as SIC and High level Enemies do things to enemies. My current PC is about level 38, I get attacked by level 6 wolves and level 38 wolves. There are no dragons.

The "illustration" is based on a wrong theory. My answer has clarified this (in a funny way).

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But in general, would leveling my character hurt or hinder the issue?  Like if at 20 it was trying to decide between a wolf and a fox, but at 30 it was firmly wolf, would that make a difference?  Is that how it works?  Or would I experience this glitch regardless of my level?

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