Havok HDT Physics Stops Working (Jewlery, Hair) but boucing physics still works

[llvv11]

I have an issue with physics enabled necklaces and hair stopping to work after loading the game.  I have 3 followers with HDT necklace (no HDT hair or wigs) and when I load the saved game the physics on the necklaces don't work.  I think it might be related to how many HDT objects there are as this was working fine for one follower with one necklace total before.

 

When I have it on 3 of them it worked before just fine, but when I loaded that save, none of the physics worked for the necklaces.  I thought this broke all HDT stuff, so I tried a mod with HDT wigs and those were also broken and no physics were applied.

 

I read about using a safety save to re-enable physics, so as a test, I just tried loading an earlier save as soon as I started the Skyrim executable, and the physics was working for the necklaces, then I loaded the latest save with the 3 necklaces where the physics was broken and it worked and fixed the physics for all 3 necklaces.  After restarting Skyrim again and loading the save with 3 necklaces, the physics stopped again.  So After some testing it looks like i have to load an older save first then the main save every time I start Skyrim.  I read that this can happen with physics objects and a post suggested making a save with no mods enabled at the start of the game, save that and load that save every time before loading your main save.  This is not a good solution

 

Just to be clear, I didn't have problems with physics before or HDT objects like jewlery, but then it just stopped working for the HDT objects for seemingly no reason.

 

Is there a way to fix this properly so I don't have to load multiple saves every time?

[llvv11]

Another test I did was loading a game with only one follower with the HDT necklace equipped, though one other had it in their inventory but not equipped.  The physics for the necklace was working.  The game I loaded was in Whiterun (have improved textures for the town if that matters).  I entered breeze home then exited and my other follower auto equipped their HDT necklace (same necklace item for both followers) and then physics stopped working.

[llvv11]

I did more testing and figured out that the Ichigo standalone follower is breaking the physics.  See below for more information.

 

In all cases to test, I did the following:

+equip the necklace on x number of followers (see below for more details)

+save the game

+exit Skyrim

+start Skyrim

+load the save created above

 

scenarios tested (all are done following the steps above):

1) equip the HDT necklace on 3 followers, 2 with CBBE bodies, 1 on Myra with a custom standalone body.  Physics worked after a load

2) equip the HDT necklace on 3 followers, 2 with CBBE bodies, 1 on Ichigo with a custom standalone body.  Physics did not work after a load

3) same as 1 but I loaded the save with the physics not working and removed the necklace from Ichigo and put it on Myra and saved the game again.  Physics worked after a load

 

This shows that the physics issue is not because there are too many HDT physics objects, it's also not because of followers with custom bodies as it works on Myra but not on Ichigo and it also works on two other followers with CBBE bodies.  It seems like there isn't anything corrupted in the save permanently with HDT physics because of scenario 3 above, but maybe it's possible something is corrupted only for that npc in the save?

 

Looking at the Ichigo follower in Tes5Edit and comparing it to the other followers it doesn't look like there is anything special about it that should break the physics.  The NPC and Race look very similar and nothing obvious about why it would not work on one vs the others.

 

Could this be some problem in the nif files or some other files in the Ichigo standalone follower mod?  What in a follower mod could be affecting an unrelated piece of equipment not even in the same mod?  Could this be a collision box thing for the Ichigo follower that prevents the necklace from moving and somehow breaks the physics?  The necklace on Ichogo is sitting on her chest normally and visible when the game is loaded and the physics is broken so it doesn't seem to start inside her body or anything like that.

 

Any ideas?

[llvv11]

Anybody?

[oldrayzor]

Hey - Not sure why you aren't getting a reply, but perhaps it could be similar to my reservations. HDT-hair is not a very stable tech in Skyrim and necklaces are a beta "test" and frankly don't work. I, for one, have completely given up on them. I use HDT hair on NPCs that don't travel because teleport is a b**** on hair. Perhaps someone has experience with getting them to work but expect an investment of time in exchange.

[Andy14]

Any hints in the log? I mean the hdt-log in SKSE/plugins.

[llvv11]

On 7/26/2019 at 8:20 PM, oldrayzor said:

Hey - Not sure why you aren't getting a reply, but perhaps it could be similar to my reservations. HDT-hair is not a very stable tech in Skyrim and necklaces are a beta "test" and frankly don't work. I, for one, have completely given up on them. I use HDT hair on NPCs that don't travel because teleport is a b**** on hair. Perhaps someone has experience with getting them to work but expect an investment of time in exchange.

So all hdt physics stuff is unreliable?  Necklaces, hair, clothes?  Even now?

[llvv11]

On 7/27/2019 at 12:21 AM, Andy14 said:

Any hints in the log? I mean the hdt-log in SKSE/plugins.

I think i checked that before and it didn't give any clue.

[nightravenph]

hey guys do you still have the copy of hdt necklace ? i cant find the hdt on nmm and in here

[GenioMaestro]

Have you tried disabling OsAlocators in CrashFixes???

 

Read this post about problems with HDT and OsAlocators.

 

If your HDT problem is solved when disable OsAlocators but your game is slow and crash more frecuent read this post about HdtMemPatch.

[oldrayzor]

On 7/29/2019 at 5:54 AM, llvv11 said:

So all hdt physics stuff is unreliable?  Necklaces, hair, clothes?  Even now?

Well I'd say that it is not NATIVE and requires a bit more cajoling than I personally want to invest right now. The body physics are mostly fine, but hair and certainly the necklaces are troublesome.

[Gameplayer]

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 1:26 PM, llvv11 said:

I have an issue with physics enabled necklaces and hair stopping to work after loading the game.  I have 3 followers with HDT necklace (no HDT hair or wigs) and when I load the saved game the physics on the necklaces don't work.  I think it might be related to how many HDT objects there are as this was working fine for one follower with one necklace total before.

 

When I have it on 3 of them it worked before just fine, but when I loaded that save, none of the physics worked for the necklaces.  I thought this broke all HDT stuff, so I tried a mod with HDT wigs and those were also broken and no physics were applied.

 

I read about using a safety save to re-enable physics, so as a test, I just tried loading an earlier save as soon as I started the Skyrim executable, and the physics was working for the necklaces, then I loaded the latest save with the 3 necklaces where the physics was broken and it worked and fixed the physics for all 3 necklaces.  After restarting Skyrim again and loading the save with 3 necklaces, the physics stopped again.  So After some testing it looks like i have to load an older save first then the main save every time I start Skyrim.  I read that this can happen with physics objects and a post suggested making a save with no mods enabled at the start of the game, save that and load that save every time before loading your main save.  This is not a good solution

 

Just to be clear, I didn't have problems with physics before or HDT objects like jewlery, but then it just stopped working for the HDT objects for seemingly no reason.

 

Is there a way to fix this properly so I don't have to load multiple saves every time?

There isn't much too say.

 

HDT physics is based on Havok which is now no longer free, since Havok is owned by Microsoft.

 

I wouldn't expect much progress on HDT anything at this point.

Since that requires people to have the old tools that were available or find the old tools, now that's not highly unlikely...Its just that the people that develop that stuff have apparently moved onto a new format in SMP.

Im not sure what SMP is based on and not sure it matters right now.

 

For the most part, complaining about HDT necklaces, earings, and hairs not working right is like saying in the dead of Summer that its hot out side.

The answer is yes we know its hot outside.

 

Yes we know your necklaces, earrings and hairs are breaking.

If you find a fix, please share.

 

In the meantime HDT bodies, armors, and clothes seem to work just fine.

[llvv11]

On 7/30/2019 at 8:54 AM, GenioMaestro said:

Have you tried disabling OsAlocators in CrashFixes???

 

Read this post about problems with HDT and OsAlocators.

 

If your HDT problem is solved when disable OsAlocators but your game is slow and crash more frecuent read this post about HdtMemPatch.

I set UseOSAllocators=0 if that's what you mean.  I thought this might be the cause after you suggested it, but it made no difference.

 

Any other ideas?

[llvv11]

On 8/2/2019 at 1:38 PM, Gameplayer said:

There isn't much too say.

 

HDT physics is based on Havok which is now no longer free, since Havok is owned by Microsoft.

 

I wouldn't expect much progress on HDT anything at this point.

Since that requires people to have the old tools that were available or find the old tools, now that's not highly unlikely...Its just that the people that develop that stuff have apparently moved onto a new format in SMP.

Im not sure what SMP is based on and not sure it matters right now.

 

For the most part, complaining about HDT necklaces, earings, and hairs not working right is like saying in the dead of Summer that its hot out side.

The answer is yes we know its hot outside.

 

Yes we know your necklaces, earrings and hairs are breaking.

If you find a fix, please share.

 

In the meantime HDT bodies, armors, and clothes seem to work just fine.

So are there SMP hairs and necklaces?  How does one find good SMP bodies, armors, necklaces, wigs etc?

[GenioMaestro]

4 hours ago, llvv11 said:

I set UseOSAllocators=0 if that's what you mean.  I thought this might be the cause after you suggested it, but it made no difference.

 

Any other ideas?

Then the problem can be in the XML files of the necklaces or the hair. Also can be a skeleton problem. Revise the documentation, the compatibility patchs, reinstall the last version of XPMSE and revise the forums.

 

The alternative solution is start a NEW GAME every time you start the game and then load the actual savegame, but you not want make that.

 

The problem is not new and has been reported whitout solution years ago in the Naturalistic HDT mod from Bazinga. Is exactly the same problem. When load the savegame the colisions not works but when start a NEW GAME or load and early savegame and then load the current savegame the colisions works.

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/54417-naturalistic-hdt-and-beast-hdt/page/33/?tab=comments#comment-2005090

 

Seems to be a unresolved problem in the HDT Havock engine of the game. The problem can be related to how the game process and compute the HDT. Evidently, is diferen when you start a new game to when you load a savegame and that affect HOW the game compute the HDT of the actual savegame.

[Gameplayer]

10 hours ago, llvv11 said:

So are there SMP hairs and necklaces?  How does one find good SMP bodies, armors, necklaces, wigs etc?

Finding SMP anything right now is matter of just searching around for them.

I don't keep track of them at the moment, SMP is still not very common for most things it covers.

 

I know that Tera Armors by Lady Horus has SMP.

I know Daymarr has been putting up peoples SMP stuff on Nexus, but that's just stuff I saw.

I thought I linked a page for finding outfits and stuff, some of them are SMP https://eskrimmods.blogspot.com/

 

You have to look around and do internet search for stuff, no other way.

 

HDT, when HDT was becoming available it was actually around for like 1 or 2 years after the release of the game...Most of us were using something called BBP or TBBP....That wasn't even really fully supported for much of the early time either.  HDT however was definitely a thing even a year after the release of the game and I didn't know about it.

 

So like HDT, back in like 2014, then we started to see more support for it and the UUNP Bodyslide came out around then....With guess what no support, no Vanilla Armor Packs for it.

I started using Bodyslide with a Sevenbase converter by BlaBa just to get 7B armors to use that were only supported in UNP, also I added Breast, Belly, and Butt bounce.

 

There is this thing called HDTHavocObject.esp I saw someone still using it in the Tech Support just yesterday in fact....So when I read about HDT, I started looking around for all the information I could find about HDT....Found a thread with a bunch of people that didn't speak English but were talking in German....I didn't know about Google Translate even so I read it with my limited understanding of German and my ability to look at pictures provided in the thread.  IT went like this, one guy was saying we didn't need HDTHavocObject anymore we could just put the data on the FemaleHead.nif and blam HDT no HavokObject.  He didn't provide files....But after two days of tinkering around I figured that out and was using it on my limited number of costumes/outfits.

 

Got tired of only having like a few outfits...So I asked for perms to convert DX outfits to HDT Bodyslides.

Then I made Bodyslides for Devious Devices...

Then I made Bodyslides for Remodeled Armor UUNP, Ousnious the lead guy now on Bodyslide said he had to work with me....

He saw I was offering a file that made the Havoc Object obsolete, he packed it into Bodyslide that was like in 2015, now no Havoc Object is standard for all Bodyslide users.

Then I made Book of UUNP....Then UUNP became a huge thing, its everywhere and everyone now asks for it.

 

But that didn't happen until the Vanilla Armors were all covered....Then it was a matter of well there isn't enough content for UUNP....Book of UUNP added like 500 outfits and blam now there was more content for UUNP than CBBE, in practically one mod alone....Then the UUNP scene just exploded.

 

So why the big story....Stuff happens over time and only if there are people that work on it.

If the basics are covered or a critical mass is reached more people start working on it cause there will be enough things to get attention for that sort of thing.

 

SMP might be the new thing....But consider that HDT took a long time to get these outfits and to get here now.

SMP is still new, not a lot of stuff for it, HDT has plenty of stuff for it.