Autosaves take several minutes, manual saves take seconds.

[Naps-On-Dirt]

Autosaves, such as after combat, fast travelling, lock picking, or zoning through exits, take several minutes to complete.  The save files aren't bloated though, they're just over 17 meg.  The accompanying .skse file is 3.4 meg.  Sometimes, usually at the beginning of a play session, the first autosave or two will be fast but then they start taking forever again.  I don't actually know offhand how fast a quicksave takes because I stopped using them because they can't be trusted.    

 

Not really sure what the problem could be that only affects autosaves but not manual saves.  Here's my really long and probably not very efficient load order.  It was LOOTed before this character, then new mods tacked onto the end, but care has been taken to make sure to never change the position of existing mods.   It is quite possible that I have overlapping replacement mods for armor or clothing, I try to clean out my load order between playthroughs but I don't catch everything.  And there are likely some moot patches still in there that I forgot to remove after upgrading the patched mod.  

 

Spoiler

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ELFXEnhancer.esp=1
 

Thank you for any advice  you can give. 

[Reesewow]

55 minutes ago, Naps-On-Dirt said:

Thank you for any advice  you can give. 

My honest recommendation would be to simply disable auto-saves as well - I think they may essentially be quick-saves as far as the game is concerned, and therefor also not to be trusted.  Especially if they are taking so long to complete - it would mean you'd want to get more used to manual save-scumming if you don't want to lose progress on death.

 

Possibly not related, but that .skse file size seems a bit high compared to mine (they average 1.5 MB in size on a 35 MB save).  That might be an apples to oranges comparison tho - the co-save is probably more dependent on the mods you run than the file size. 

[GenioMaestro]

6 hours ago, Naps-On-Dirt said:

Thank you for any advice  you can give. 

Normally that problem is caused by the BAK files. Go to your save folder and delete autosave*.* and quicksave*.*

[Grey Cloud]

6 hours ago, Reesewow said:

auto-saves as well - I think they may essentially be quick-saves as far as the game is concerned, and therefor also not to be trusted.

Why are they 'not 'to be trusted'?

 

8 hours ago, Naps-On-Dirt said:

because they can't be trusted

Why can't they be trusted?

 

What absolute shit. Can you give any evidence as to why this is the case?

Neither auto- or quicksaves have ever given me any problems in 3 years of playing. Autosave has saved my bacon on lots of occassions.

 

The size of the save is the size of the save. It various during any game but generally get larger as the game progresses. To treat any 'bloat' use this

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/3786-netimmerse-override-cleaner-skse-co-save-cleaner-utility/

 

[Reesewow]

3 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

Why can't they be trusted?

 

What absolute shit. Can you give any evidence as to why this is the case?

Do I need to?  This was a personal recommendation to a user posting that they don't trust quick saves - and there is a general mistrust of quicksaves (the second hit on a google search of "Skyrim Quick Save" is a post about not doing it due to save corruption).  No clue if it is justified or not - I've always filed that under "better safe than sorry" where losing a save file is concerned.  If a user is specifically has issues with auto-saves acting strangely, my personal recommendation would be to not use them - as I personally do not.

 

That being said - Genio has an *actual* solution above that may work - had he posted first, I would not have posted my personal work-around.

 

I used to use auto-saves a lot as well - I stopped when I realized they typically saved in times of very heavy script usage (cell transitions) and on occasion would load one to find one of the heavier mods acting strangely and end up rolling back hours rather than use the auto-save.  Different users will have different experiences.

 

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

I stopped when I realized they typically saved in times of very heavy script usage (cell transitions)

Why would a cell transition result in 'heavy script usage'?

 

My autosaves on cell transitions are currently taking quite a while but I've got 20 followers with me.

 

That second google hit is just some dickhead on Steam. Does he think that the vanilla game doesn't use scripts and that Bethesda are incapable of providing a reliable quicksave? Saves do not become 'corrupt', per se. It is the data in the save which is goosed. Therefore the thing to do is find out what is doing that and not to run away.

 

The game gives you 3 types of save - hard, quick and auto. You are recommending reducing that to 1 on the off-chance that quick or auto may become corrupt. Good thinking, Ninety-nine.

[worik]

12 hours ago, Naps-On-Dirt said:

The accompanying .skse file is 3.4 meg.

That's most probably far too much and contains bloat.

I recommend NIO cleaner to remove that bloat. Your save duration will speed up dramatically.

Spoiler

 

 

Edit: oops ... GC already linked that I blame my small notebook screen to have scrolled over that too fast.

Just for the numbers and to have a reference: My 30-32MB of save result in a <500k cosave if it is cleaned.

[GenioMaestro]

43 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

I used to use auto-saves a lot as well - I stopped when I realized they typically saved in times of very heavy script usage (cell transitions) and on occasion would load one to find one of the heavier mods acting strangely and end up rolling back hours rather than use the auto-save.  Different users will have different experiences.

The problem with the automatic saved game is another old problem in Skyrim, and like all the ancient problems, many people, actually a lot, say normal old things. You can even find specific modifications, created with a DLL for SKSE, that disable fast saving and automatic saving and make it normal. That gives you an idea of the level of hatred some people have when it comes to saving them quickly and automatically saving them.

If someone thinks that the mod can solve any problem is very wrong.

 

The script has nothing to do with this problem. The game executes the script for 1.2 ms in each frame. At 60 FPS, the script runs 60 times and, of course, the saving process takes more than a second. All the scripts are suspended while the save is generated.

If someone thinks that the game can execute the scripts while the game is saved, they are very wrong.

 

The only problem is that Skyrim can save the game at any time and not every moment is good to save the game. The worst moment to save is in the middle of a battle. At that time, the game runs many scripts and packages to control each npc and has a lot of live work. A saved at that time can be corrupt. It does not matter if the saving is done manually, automatically or with a DLL.

 

When you perform a manual save, you usually do it in a stable situation with less npc and fewer things running, and that is the only reason for manual saving to have better security.

When the game starts to be saved, it sends a suspension message for all the DLLs, mods and scripts, waits a bit and starts to generate the save. If a dll is doing a job and can not finish it, its saved game is corrupted with total certainty.

 

In the years 2012, 2013 and 2014 we did not know exactly how works the management of the game memory and the saving process. In those years, the game had many problems, especially with the automatic saves, the fast saves and the CTD. With the release of SSME and new versions of SKSE, many of those problems disappeared. In 2016, with the release of Crash Fixes 12, we finally solved the error of the string table and many other problems.

 

But many people, today, 3 and 5 years after the launch of these tools, do not have them installed. They live in the past and think that all the problems of the game are there and that they will always be there and will never be solved.

I can understand that some people, after having problems for years, can think that way.

But I can not understand why they do not listen to other people who explain the solution to all those problems.

[Grey Cloud]

Amen to that, Genio.

 

All I would add is - do the 'big hitters' such as Gamer Poets, S.T.E.P., Gopher etc., say anything about not using quick and auto?

[GenioMaestro]

6 minutes ago, worik said:

That's most probably far too much and contains bloat.

 

I recommend NIO cleaner to remove that bloat. Your save duration will speed up dramatically.

The size of the save only have relation to how many mod you have, how many time you play, how many quest started and completed, what type of mods are you executing and how many data the mods store with PapyrusUtil and JContainers.

 

Say that a co-save of 3.4 mb have a bloat based only in the size not have any sense. My skse co-save have 5.7 mb and NioCleaner say i have only the 10% of the data in NIO. I can clean it but i lost the data addeded by MME, ABBA and others mods with tats that change the NiOverride Section.

 

The only motive for recomend a clean with NioCleaner is when the game need a lot of time for make the save. Normaly, only need from 5 to 10 seconds. If the time is over 30 seconds i can recomend NioCleaner.

But i can not recomend NioCleaner based only on file size.

[worik]

19 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

If the time is over 30 seconds i can recomend NioCleaner.

Indeed.  And please have a look at the headline of this thread

[GenioMaestro]

8 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Amen to that, Genio.

 

All I would add is - do the 'big hitters' such as Gamer Poets, S.T.E.P., Gopher etc., say anything about not using quick and auto?

None web page certify a problem in savegames or log spam or stacks dumps or scripts problems or cloacks problems or script heavy mods.

Only certify specific problems in specific mod that have problems because are bad designed or bad developed.

Simply, read the web pages and not use mods that is know that cause problems.

 

Aditionally, some combinations of mods give problems. A mod can work perfect alone but when you mix it whit another 200 mods you can have problems. The combinations are infinite and the posible problems never end.

[GenioMaestro]

Just now, worik said:

Please have a look at the headline of this thread

Autosaves take several minutes, manual saves take seconds.

 

What do you understand with that title???

That is a problem only and exclusively with the AUTOSAVES. The manual saves works perfect.

That is not a bloat problem. That is a problem with the AUTOSAVES and is caused by the BAK files. When the problem is caused by bloat all the saves, including the manual saves, need a lot of time superior to 30 seconds.

[Reesewow]

9 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

The game gives you 3 types of save - hard, quick and auto. You are recommending reducing that to 1 on the off-chance that quick or auto may become corrupt. Good thinking, Ninety-nine.

Yes, I recommended that.  Why?  Because that is how I play, it has worked well for me for a very long time and the user who asked the question already is 50% of the way there by avoiding quicksaves.  My habits are also not born out of pure internet rumor - I have *actually* lost hours of progress in the past relying on poorly timed auto saves that were not stable on load - as a result, I do not rely on them anymore and prefer to have full control of my game's saving.

 

 

8 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

None web page certify a problem in savegames or log spam or stacks dumps or scripts problems or cloacks problems or script heavy mods.

Only certify specific problems in specific mod that have problems because are bad designed or bad developed.

Simply, read the web pages and not use mods that is know that cause problems.

 

Aditionally, some combinations of mods give problems. A mod can work perfect alone but when you mix it whit another 200 mods you can have problems. The combinations are infinite and the posible problems never end.

While I don't personally mind it - I feel like I do need to say that this thread is disappointing to me.

 

If the response from a simple technical problem question and the first response, made purely with the best of intentions, is a full page of being talked down to and exasperation that not everyone is fully versed in the latest technical details of the Skyrim engine, this forum is going to be even more quiet than it is.  If you both want to have your voices be the only ones allowed to reply on this forum, this would be a good approach to achieve that.

 

My current Skyrim install was first put in place in 2014, so I apologize that some of my suggestions might not be cutting edge - my Skyrim habits are not cutting edge.  However, they have worked for me in practice, so I will continue to offer advice to those that ask for help, despite the possibility I may not be 100% correct.  I'd prefer to be wrong trying to help than have someone's thread sit empty for days when I think I might know a solution.

 

@Naps-On-Dirt - sorry for derailing your help thread, hopefully you've found a solution to your issue.

[RohZima]

Hey I had this exact issue and it was windows related, I assume you're on windows 10. Anyway it was some middleware or windows update that fixed it. I can't remember though what. 

 

Maybe it was visual c++ or not, but it definitely was windows related and not the game itself, or rather it was updating somehting in windows that fixed it

[yatol]

11 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

 

The script has nothing to do with this problem. The game executes the script for 1.2 ms in each frame.

 

and after you write....

11 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

 

The worst moment to save is in the middle of a battle. At that time, the game runs many scripts and packages to control each npc and has a lot of live work. A saved at that time can be corrupt. It does not matter if the saving is done manually, automatically or with a DLL.

 

euh....

 

let's check what google have to say about those autosave they are so afraid to use

On 5/17/2016 at 3:45 AM, delgathar said:

Quicksave doesn't shut down scripts.  So if your quicksave is long and your manual save is fast, then the culprit might be a script that won't surrender and let other processes run.

 

Arthmoor did a bit of mythbusting on the whole quicksave is bad rumor.  These are the rules I extracted.

1.  Quicksaving is ok. Most of the statements against it is misinformation. 

2.  The problem with saves is restoring a save in the same cell, because not all information is cleared.  So either only restore to a different cell, or shut down skyrim between saves.  Thus the way many people use quicksaves, e.g. for pickpocketing, can lead to problems.

3.  So the best place to use quicksaves is in an area where not many scripts are running.

 

I had to kill a couple of script mods because they were dirty.  Revenge of the Enemies was pretty bad.  I've got an SSD and skytweak was taking over 130 seconds to load after a quicksave.  Using scriptcleaner also doubled my fps and stopped a lot of my stuttering.  Which it normally shouldn't have that effect, so RotE was really bogging my computer down.

 

So when you start having long quicksaves or area loads, it is time to check out your scripts and figure out which ones are either running too often, running too many instances, or acting up in some other way.

 

Also, if you are using MO it is good to filter for scripts and check to make sure none are conflicting.

problem disappear if he reload the game?

 

enter a crypt

save (doesn't matter if it's auto, quick, normal save)

look for a draugr that wake up from a coffin

load your save

go back to that coffin

draugr won't wake up

 

you don't care that draugr don't wake up?

enderal dialog between bandit boss and dark carlia, if you run on the trap like me, are send flying, end up stuck between rocks, and load earlier save instead of tcl.... you walk on the trap, and you ctd (no calia for the dialog this time? wops)
no idea what happen when you die during siege, i had alt f4 to not try my luck with ram leftovers (there's some stuff with global values for the save to overwrite that, but since so many have problems, there's more stuff that should also use global values)

 

no idea what his blabla about skytweak is

rote is just an esp that give stronger weapons and spell to some npcs, that mod don't have scripts...

and i don't see how the game could save something, if it wasn't pausing the game to save it

 

i would have more than 113 save for enderal if autosave were dangerous

.bak are backup,  no idea why he is renaming previous autosave instead of just deleting it

 

if it was slow because fragmented hdd, save would be the same

you autosave when you enter cells, the few minutes freeze, isn't that thousands of oncellload and other things, the game is loading for nothing, before finishing with the autosave?

 

[GenioMaestro]

8 hours ago, Reesewow said:

Yes, I recommended that.  Why?  Because that is how I play, it has worked well for me for a very long time and the user who asked the question already is 50% of the way there by avoiding quicksaves.  My habits are also not born out of pure internet rumor - I have *actually* lost hours of progress in the past relying on poorly timed auto saves that were not stable on load - as a result, I do not rely on them anymore and prefer to have full control of my game's saving.

Excuse me, but that is exactly the BIG PROBLEM. 

 

The solutions that you and others expert players and big moders give are not the correct solution.

That recomendation is NOT a solution. Say that as quick and auto not works then not use it is NOT a solution.

Is say that as Skyrim make CTD simply not play Skyrim. Or as "Script Heavy mods" give problems not use it.

Or mod with cloaks give problems and can not be used. Or a mod making log spam or giving stacks dumps can not be used. All that are false concepts about the game.

 

For years we had problems with the game and a lot of expert players and big moders think that the problems are here, always are here and not have solutions because they, as you, are unable to find a solution and had stoped searching a solution. If the expert players and big moders not know how works the game and how solve the problems and they give the old and unuseful answers the only think that i can make is say "that is not true" because the problems have solution.

 

Of course, you can answer any message and try help any player. Every solution is apreciated. But if you not have any solution to the problem you only can say "yes, i had the same problem and i not know how solve it" but you can not recomend unusefull things and you can not give bad recomendations.

[yatol]

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Of course, you can answer any message and try help any player. Every solution is apreciated. But if you not have any solution to the problem you only can say "yes, i had the same problem and i not know how solve it" but you can not recomend unusefull things and you can not give bad recomendations.

funny comment from the one that made a topic saying stack dumps are harmless

what is usefull in your taunt for him?

doesn't that post look like an imitation of my usual blabla about the "experts" that copy paste random stuff in most ctd topics (blabla loot, step, moving mod x last and whatever.... useless waste of time since most of those "random" ctd are ram ctd because op is using someone else settings, without the same hardware, so he don't have the ram for that, and ram ctd)