The Ebony blade and murders in general - seeking advice

[Mormegil0121]

Hello all,

 

I am playing an Evil character... so obviously I would try and max out the Ebony Blade stats by killing 10 friendly NPCs. I also plan on killing a couple NPCs outside of that quest for roleplaying reasons.

Problem is, I can't seem to kill anyone without raising the alarm and getting a bounty unless they are sound asleep and alone in a cell. If there is so much as a single NPC in the same cell, no matter if they are asleep, in another room or if I am sneaking and unseen and kill the target in one blow : they sistematically start screaming and the guards come rushing in.

 

It's very frustrating as I feel I shouldn't be caught after taking so much precaution and it's very unclear what the rules for getting spotted are.

 

I should mention sneaking isn't my character's forte.

 

So what are your strategies for successful murders ? (not involving roleplay-breaking exploits)

 

Thanks for the help !

[nemocdt]

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ebony_Blade_Victims some options here 

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/54535/ dread prison (a bit op at any level)

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/19447/ sneak tools 

 

player.setav sneak 5000 ?

 

 

 

 

 

[Helveticos]

Try with female beggar in Riften (don't remember name), she sleeps in Beggars Row. If you revive her with Ritual Stone skill, every time u kill her revived corpse it will count as stack for the Blade.

[Mormegil0121]

2 hours ago, nemocdt said:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ebony_Blade_Victims some options here 

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/54535/ dread prison (a bit op at any level)

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/19447/ sneak tools 

 

player.setav sneak 5000 ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your suggestions, I already use sneak tools as part of Perma and dread prison seems op indeed

 

As for the ebony blade thx for the link, it's very useful, I'll try to get a few victims "the hard way" to get a sense of accomplishment (plus there are a few people that I want gone from skyrim that aren't on the list) but I'll use it for the remaining kills

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Helveticos said:

Try with female beggar in Riften (don't remember name), she sleeps in Beggars Row. If you revive her with Ritual Stone skill, every time u kill her revived corpse it will count as stack for the Blade. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I am trying to complete the quest without this exploit as roleplay wise, I don't think this would fool Mephala (though being the daedra of lies and  plots I guess she would admire the trick in some way )

[Mormegil0121]

So I guess I just have to plan my murders a bit better.

 

After a couple hours of experimenting I managed to land three without getting caught.

But the bounty system for murder is... idiotic to say the least.

 

For exemple I went after the Shatter-shield guy in windhelm. I stalked him for an entire day and when killing him at home failed (his wife, despite sleeping in a different bed, in a different room, at a different level of the house, kept waking up and calling the guard) I set up an ambush during the night on his way back home. I killed him right in front of his door while nobody, and I mean nobody, was around.

 

First attempts I killed him while sneaking and even he didn't see me. Got the 1000 gold bounty (but no red dot, not guard running towards me ect - again he was totally alone in this part of the town). Then, in frustration I just walked to him and killed him with one hit, no sneaking nothing... I got 40 gold bounty for agression and then it got erased immediatly because I "killed the last witness"... so much for subtility...

 

I am going to head to the argonian distric now. I have at least five "friends" there all in the same room. They got it hard enough as it is but well I am evil after all ^^

 

No trying to be subtle this time, I think the "butcher of windhelm" will not be pleased to get his name stolen after that

[SmedleyDButler]

I'm kind of curious about what GOOD players do with the blade. How do you ditch it/contain it?

 

I mean, obviously you can just delete it, or toss it in a non-safe container and let refresh take care of it, but I mean how do goody-two-shoes players deal with the blade in a RPing way? 'Cause you still need to do the quest to save the Coolest Jarl in Skyrim from his little rat bastard kid. 

[Mormegil0121]

10 hours ago, SmedleyDButler said:

I'm kind of curious about what GOOD players do with the blade. How do you ditch it/contain it?

 

I mean, obviously you can just delete it, or toss it in a non-safe container and let refresh take care of it, but I mean how do goody-two-shoes players deal with the blade in a RPing way? 'Cause you still need to do the quest to save the Coolest Jarl in Skyrim from his little rat bastard kid.  

Whenever I play a good character (which is rare with skyrim) I personally keep it in a safe or a display at home (usually a Daedric artifact display in a custom player home from a mod) and never touch it again. I don't get rid of it because I assume Mephala would just make it fade away and reappear somewhere else for someone "more worthy" to use it. Daedras are like that with their artefacts...

 

Does Balgruf really dies if the dragonborn refuses to take the blade ? I've seen that his murder at the hands of his children was something Bethesda planed but later removed. There are still some scripts and dialogues for it in the game but they are never used if I am correct.

 

I personally have more trouble roleplaying with Meridia's quest since my character is a necromancer and a vampire ... Worst still, I'd like to side with the dawnguard this time around because I always went for the Vampire Lords and I want to see the other path... I don't know how I will do that... Something about "power being more valuable when it is rare" maybe ? I mean I am sure to be the most powerfull vampire or necromancer if I destroy the competition by any mean necessary right ?

 

 

[SmedleyDButler]

5 hours ago, Mormegil0121 said:

Whenever I play a good character (which is rare with skyrim) I personally keep it in a safe or a display at home (usually a Daedric artifact display in a custom player home from a mod) and never touch it again. I don't get rid of it because I assume Mephala would just make it fade away and reappear somewhere else for someone "more worthy" to use it. Daedras are like that with their artefacts...

 

Does Balgruf really dies if the dragonborn refuses to take the blade ? I've seen that his murder at the hands of his children was something Bethesda planed but later removed. There are still some scripts and dialogues for it in the game but they are never used if I am correct.

 

I personally have more trouble roleplaying with Meridia's quest since my character is a necromancer and a vampire ... Worst still, I'd like to side with the dawnguard this time around because I always went for the Vampire Lords and I want to see the other path... I don't know how I will do that... Something about "power being more valuable when it is rare" maybe ? I mean I am sure to be the most powerfull vampire or necromancer if I destroy the competition by any mean necessary right ?

 

 

Correct. Beth truncated the quest so that Balgruuf doesn't actually die and only one of his kids is "infected". Would actually be cool if that was restored. Much more of an interesting quest than "Go to the basement and pick up the sword." It's literally the easiest Daedric quest in the game.

 

As for an evil character, just get your vampirism temporarily cured and have Serana or another vampire grant it to you afterwards. If you're evil it doesn't matter if you're lying - it's in character!

[FauxFurry]

How about using a mod which adds friendly NPCs to the world? Immersive Wenches would be my suggestion. The Louis Cultivation Kit would be better if it works but it has been a while since I've used it so I don't remember how well it works. I know that the first kill counts but I can't confirm it past that.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

If you're skilled at Conjuration, you can use the various Raise spells to bring back the same victim over and over. Provided you don't behead them. That counts towards filling the blade's quota.

[karlpaws]

13 hours ago, Mormegil0121 said:

Whenever I play a good character (which is rare with skyrim) I personally keep it in a safe or a display at home (usually a Daedric artifact display in a custom player home from a mod) and never touch it again. I don't get rid of it because I assume Mephala would just make it fade away and reappear somewhere else for someone "more worthy" to use it. Daedras are like that with their artefacts...

 

I personally have more trouble roleplaying with Meridia's quest since my character is a necromancer and a vampire ... Worst still, I'd like to side with the dawnguard this time around because I always went for the Vampire Lords and I want to see the other path... I don't know how I will do that... Something about "power being more valuable when it is rare" maybe ? I mean I am sure to be the most powerfull vampire or necromancer if I destroy the competition by any mean necessary right ?

 

 

Stashing it in a safe place is probably the best way a Good character could deal with it, leaving it unpowered and weak.  Vampires could claim Merida's blade in both a "take out the competition" sort of thing... can't have another bad guy being badder than you, plus a "lets get this thing I can't use and destroy it in some way that makes me more powerful" story, unless you want to RP a way you figure out what rival baddie was doing.... and do it yourself.

8 hours ago, SmedleyDButler said:

As for an evil character, just get your vampirism temporarily cured and have Serana or another vampire grant it to you afterwards. If you're evil it doesn't matter if you're lying - it's in character!

There are mods that supposedly bypass that "are you a vampire" check when you bring Sorine and Gunmar back (as that's the only time being a vampire matters, iirc).  They haven't worked for me, so console skipping that quest entry would be another way to "cheat" that.  It would make some sense that if they're letting one vampire in, one more won't hurt... too much.

 

As for the vampires, while it wouldn't work for Serana (family and retainers being involved an all), another vampire from another clan might just want to wipe out a rival faction, and using duped vampire hunters to do so would just make all kinds of ironic sense.

 

As a double doozie, kill them with the Ebony Blade for bonus credit.

[Mormegil0121]

15 hours ago, karlpaws said:

There are mods that supposedly bypass that "are you a vampire" check when you bring Sorine and Gunmar back (as that's the only time being a vampire matters, iirc).  They haven't worked for me, so console skipping that quest entry would be another way to "cheat" that.  It would make some sense that if they're letting one vampire in, one more won't hurt... too much.

 

Oh wow, I didn't even know there was a check against vampirism further down the dawnguard quests... The only thing I remember is Arkon saying something about "you think they won't figure out that you are a vampire ?"  or something like that... as I said, I never went the Dawnguard way.

 

I guess I'll cross that bridge when I'll get to it... Don't want to risk breaking the quest with console command. Plus, if the quest was build that way I don't want to cheat my way out of it.

 

Though since I am playing with "better vampires" it might be a real bother to get the cure from Fallion, possibly erasing my progress as a Vampire with that mod... and since "better vampires" is real finicky with the vampire state, I am not sure how it will handle a mod to bypass the check (and again, don't want to cheat my way out of this one). What a twisted problem I got myself into, I'll have to think about it

 

I might want to start dawnguard a bit earlier than expected to avoid losing too much vampiric progression... Do you know if past the initial check (which I guess happens after you rejected Harkon's offer and return to the dawnguard) you can become a vampire again without locking you out of the dawnguard quests ? I mean is the check a one time thing or will the Dawnguard always refuse to give a quest to a vampire ?

 

 

15 hours ago, karlpaws said:

As for the vampires, while it wouldn't work for Serana (family and retainers being involved an all), another vampire from another clan might just want to wipe out a rival faction, and using duped vampire hunters to do so would just make all kinds of ironic sense.

 

As a double doozie, kill them with the Ebony Blade for bonus credit. 

 

That was my idea exactly ! What better way for a vampire to ensure his safety and gain power than to hide within the very people that are hellbent on hunting and destroying vampires ! And to fool them into doing your biding is so sweetly ironic, as you rightly said, that I am more than determined to do it that way now, rather than playing as Harkon's lackey (even if I know you get to rule in the end)

[karlpaws]

9 minutes ago, Mormegil0121 said:

 

Oh wow, I didn't even know there was a check against vampirism further down the dawnguard quests... The only thing I remember is Arkon saying something about "you think they won't figure out that you are a vampire ?"  or something like that... as I said, I never went the Dawnguard way.

 

I guess I'll cross that bridge when I'll get to it... Don't want to risk breaking the quest with console command. Plus, if the quest was build that way I don't want to cheat my way out of it.

 

Though since I am playing with "better vampires" it might be a real bother to get the cure from Fallion, possibly erasing my progress as a Vampire with that mod... and since "better vampires" is real finicky with the vampire state, I am not sure how it will handle a mod to bypass the check (and again, don't want to cheat my way out of this one). What a twisted problem I got myself into, I'll have to think about it

 

I might want to start dawnguard a bit earlier than expected to avoid losing too much vampiric progression... Do you know if past the initial check (which I guess happens after you rejected Harkon's offer and return to the dawnguard) you can become a vampire again without locking you out of the dawnguard quests ? I mean is the check a one time thing or will the Dawnguard always refuse to give a quest to a vampire ?

 

 

 

That was my idea exactly ! What better way for a vampire to ensure his safety and gain power than to hide within the very people that are hellbent on hunting and destroying vampires ! And to fool them into doing your biding is so sweetly ironic, as you rightly said, that I am more than determined to do it that way now, rather than playing as Harkon's lackey (even if I know you get to rule in the end)

I would have to double check, but I think there is only one "are you a vampire" check which is done, yes, after you reject Harkon's offer, and are sent to have two friends of Isran to help reform the Dawnguard.  The thing is, when you and the other two are "tested" for vampirism and pass, you're then taken to where Serana is in the fort by Isran.  He LETS HER IN knowing she's a vampire but since she wants to talk to you, but won't say what, he's all cool with her chilling around inside, past the vampire testing trap room, until you get back. There are a couple other RP kinda Whaaaaat?'s including the whole "lets just recruit any old person that says they want to kill vampires and we'll deal with repercussions later. Including once when you come back to the fort, you help them fight off an attack at the front door.

 

So, given enough mechanics breaking RP-enabled magic, I think using a console cheat to get past a test or two would be perfectly reasonable, but to each their own.  I guess some of it would depend on why you want to be a vampire and what your backstory is. The whole "become a vampire later in the playthrough" is quite easy to manage, as you'll remember the Soul Cairn gateway... though you might not have noticed that you get in because you're effectively dead, as a vampire. Dawnguard side Serana can turn you into a vampire right there, skipping the Harkon thing, but you're just as much a vampire lord as if he'd done it (and not an "infected" thing) as if you'd caught it from any other health draining vampire NPC.

 

Another irony in the lore you can find out is that supposedly, a past Jarl of the Rift had a son who became a vampire, and the Dawn Guard were setup to imprison him in what later became the fort. IIRC the vampire ended up turning his guards, or they went rogue for some other reason at some point later, and ended up terrorizing the local countryside.  I'm sure UESP would have a lot of info on that.  My own RP, were I doing DG as a vampire, would be a non-Volkihar who heard about a reforming Dawnguard and (possibly, but it probably isn't widely known enough) idea of a prophecy the Skyrim vampire family head is pursuing to blot out the sun, and thinking the same way Valerica and Serana do.  One might say that a vampire would side with them and take em out from within, but going with fools-are-tools idea, setting up the Dawnguard to take them down, and then stabbing them in the back is the easier way to wipe out both enemies.

 

There is a book in game that lists a few of the other kinds and what they have for powers.  Immortal Blood  which has a really interesting twist at the end, if you haven't read it. Give you another rather interesting lore reason for another quest playing a vampire.

 

Oh and if you haven't, look for a mod on the nexus called Vampire Dens, by a "gonk" or "gonkish" that adds some nice vampire themed stuff.

[Mormegil0121]

44 minutes ago, karlpaws said:

I would have to double check, but I think there is only one "are you a vampire" check which is done, yes, after you reject Harkon's offer, and are sent to have two friends of Isran to help reform the Dawnguard.  The thing is, when you and the other two are "tested" for vampirism and pass, you're then taken to where Serana is in the fort by Isran.  He LETS HER IN knowing she's a vampire but since she wants to talk to you, but won't say what, he's all cool with her chilling around inside, past the vampire testing trap room, until you get back. There are a couple other RP kinda Whaaaaat?'s including the whole "lets just recruit any old person that says they want to kill vampires and we'll deal with repercussions later. Including once when you come back to the fort, you help them fight off an attack at the front door.

 

So, given enough mechanics breaking RP-enabled magic, I think using a console cheat to get past a test or two would be perfectly reasonable, but to each their own.  I guess some of it would depend on why you want to be a vampire and what your backstory is. The whole "become a vampire later in the playthrough" is quite easy to manage, as you'll remember the Soul Cairn gateway... though you might not have noticed that you get in because you're effectively dead, as a vampire. Dawnguard side Serana can turn you into a vampire right there, skipping the Harkon thing, but you're just as much a vampire lord as if he'd done it (and not an "infected" thing) as if you'd caught it from any other health draining vampire NPC. 

 

Another irony in the lore you can find out is that supposedly, a past Jarl of the Rift had a son who became a vampire, and the Dawn Guard were setup to imprison him in what later became the fort. IIRC the vampire ended up turning his guards, or they went rogue for some other reason at some point later, and ended up terrorizing the local countryside.  I'm sure UESP would have a lot of info on that.  My own RP, were I doing DG as a vampire, would be a non-Volkihar who heard about a reforming Dawnguard and (possibly, but it probably isn't widely known enough) idea of a prophecy the Skyrim vampire family head is pursuing to blot out the sun, and thinking the same way Valerica and Serana do.  One might say that a vampire would side with them and take em out from within, but going with fools-are-tools idea, setting up the Dawnguard to take them down, and then stabbing them in the back is the easier way to wipe out both enemies.

 

There is a book in game that lists a few of the other kinds and what they have for powers.  Immortal Blood  which has a really interesting twist at the end, if you haven't read it. Give you another rather interesting lore reason for another quest playing a vampire.

 

Oh and if you haven't, look for a mod on the nexus called Vampire Dens, by a "gonk" or "gonkish" that adds some nice vampire themed stuff. 

 

Mmmmmh Yeah... I guess Bethesda is not always the best at keeping things coherent in their quests... Maybe I will use the console as you suggested as it won't really break the RP... I mean it's not too far-fetched to think the Dawnguard would be fooled by a crafty vampire hiding among them... especially one with dragon's blood and access to powerfull artefacts and spells.

 

My character is an imperial necromancer obsessed with the notion of power. I see him as sort of a new Potema with a bit of Manimarco as well, willing to commit horrific deeds to sustain his political ambitions. My backstory is that prior to the events of skyrim he benefited from the chaos of the great war to rise to some degree of power in hammerfell before being vainquished and forced to flee north having lost everything and having to rebuild from the ground up. To him, vampirism is only one way among others to regain his former power. So I guess it would make sense for him to seek to infiltrate and manipulate the Dawnguard early on, rather than risk being defeated again by a group of undead hunters !  If he can do that, it will probably help him later when he'll try rising to the emperor's throne

 

I love "immortal blood", and skyrim's books in general. I always get excited when I stumble upon one I didn't know already.

 

I'll check the mod you suggested, thx

 

 

[karlpaws]

I suppose you know about Ansilvund and Lu'ah, potentially then for your Imperial?

[Mormegil0121]

1 hour ago, karlpaws said:

I suppose you know about Ansilvund and Lu'ah, potentially then for your Imperial? 

 

Yes, a creative plan but ultimately bound to fail. I imagine this was somewhere along the line of what my character tried in hammerfell but he now would understand this is doomed, an undead army can only get you so far and has the problem of uniting everyone against you.

 

I was thinking of a more insidious approach. I mean being a dragonborn he shares some ties with Tiber Septim (or he can at least claim to share some ties with him). From there, a Legate of the empire, with a Legion behind him, a couple of dragons, a network of assassins and spies and the reformed blades to add to the legitimacy of his claim, the throne would pretty much fall into his hands at this point. The undead army might serve later, maybe to crush the dominion, who knows ^^

[karlpaws]

Given her apparent skill I was thinking more along the line of recruitment instead of co-opting of plans.

 

Not sure if the Blades make for a good character witness, given that the Thalmor want to kill them, but I suppose if you kept it quiet (and eliminated the traitors on the Council first) they could prove useful. That or as your silent might.

 

Emperor-Listener in mind?

 

The other way to make use of undead you've raised is the false-threat gimmick.  Make it look like they're someone else's problem, solve it, and presto, instant hero.  Tie that into the Dawnguard trickery and hope Stendarr doesn't smite you for it.

[Mormegil0121]

32 minutes ago, karlpaws said:

The other way to make use of undead you've raised is the false-threat gimmick.  Make it look like they're someone else's problem, solve it, and presto, instant hero.  Tie that into the Dawnguard trickery and hope Stendarr doesn't smite you for it. 

 

Oh ! you and I share a mind ! I was just thinking about that right after I posted the previous message !