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Any news about the Milk Mod Economy bug? I'm starting a new game and want to keep my mod amount as low as possible (= without Milk Mod Economy).

I looked into it a fair bit and I found a number of issues with script initialization:

 

1. The MilkMod Economy quest variable is being initialized and not used.  The theory is initializing this variable takes a fair bit of time when the mod is not installed.

2. I noticed a few initialization processes being started more than once for each script.

3. I found a deadlock where two scripts would both try to call the other script at the same time, at which point the scripts would stop running and not do anything for the rest of the game.

 

Issue 2 and 3 are unrelated to MilkMod Economy.

 

I believe issue 3 is the real problem that most users are seeing.  Installing MilkMod Economy just happens to change the timing of when the scripts access each other and it doesn't encounter a deadlock situation.

 

I've fixed all of these issues, but I've also been having some difficulty creating a clean save.

I'm creating a "Shutdown Mod" MCM option which should stop some of the scripts from running and make clean saves run more smoothly.

I'm at the point where this feature has been completed but it has only been tested once.  I will need to run this test at least a couple more times.

 

If I don't find any more issues the mod is ready to release and I should be able to release it this evening.

If I do find some issues it should be tomorrow or Thursday.

 

With these changes I'm hoping installation, both on an existing game and in a new game, should work without any issues.  At the very least I'm expecting it to install much smoother in most cases.  Regardless of whether MilkMod Economy is installed.

 

I suggest starting your new game and adding Devious Framework to it when it is released.

 

Happy gaming,

legume.

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Any news about the Milk Mod Economy bug? I'm starting a new game and want to keep my mod amount as low as possible (= without Milk Mod Economy).

I looked into it a fair bit and I found a number of issues with script initialization:

 

1. The MilkMod Economy quest variable is being initialized and not used.  The theory is initializing this variable takes a fair bit of time when the mod is not installed.

2. I noticed a few initialization processes being started more than once for each script.

3. I found a deadlock where two scripts would both try to call the other script at the same time, at which point the scripts would stop running and not do anything for the rest of the game.

 

Issue 2 and 3 are unrelated to MilkMod Economy.

 

I believe issue 3 is the real problem that most users are seeing.  Installing MilkMod Economy just happens to change the timing of when the scripts access each other and it doesn't encounter a deadlock situation.

 

I've fixed all of these issues, but I've also been having some difficulty creating a clean save.

I'm creating a "Shutdown Mod" MCM option which should stop some of the scripts from running and make clean saves run more smoothly.

I'm at the point where this feature has been completed but it has only been tested once.  I will need to run this test at least a couple more times.

 

If I don't find any more issues the mod is ready to release and I should be able to release it this evening.

If I do find some issues it should be tomorrow or Thursday.

 

With these changes I'm hoping installation, both on an existing game and in a new game, should work without any issues.  At the very least I'm expecting it to install much smoother in most cases.  Regardless of whether MilkMod Economy is installed.

 

I suggest starting your new game and adding Devious Framework to it when it is released.

 

Happy gaming,

legume.

 

 

If I have v2.03 installed is it upgradable? I have just used some time to set all the MCM settings of my installed mods and I have used V2.03 as a placeholder for the mod ID number.

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If I have v2.03 installed is it upgradable? I have just used some time to set all the MCM settings of my installed mods and I have used V2.03 as a placeholder for the mod ID number.

I expect it to be fully upgradable.

If any issues are encountered let me know.

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There seems to be a issue with how the mod detects whether the PC is naked.  It works fine the first time you put on and/or take off clothing but if you take off or change clothes in rapid succession, the PC's status gets stuck on naked.  Eventually the mod seems to catch up and correct the status up until the next time you try cycle through being clothed and naked again.  Other mods (such as Frostfall) still seem to be correctly detecting naked status.  

I tried setting the timer preventing putting on clothing immediately after being naked but it doesn't seem to change this.  In fact, I would have expected having a number > 0 would have prevented me from putting on the clothing immediately anyway but that doesn't seem to be happening.  

However I do remember in previous games, with the previous version, the timer for post rape dressing was definitely working.

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There seems to be a issue with how the mod detects whether the PC is naked.  It works fine the first time you put on and/or take off clothing but if you take off or change clothes in rapid succession, the PC's status gets stuck on naked.  Eventually the mod seems to catch up and correct the status up until the next time you try cycle through being clothed and naked again.  Other mods (such as Frostfall) still seem to be correctly detecting naked status.  

I tried setting the timer preventing putting on clothing immediately after being naked but it doesn't seem to change this.  In fact, I would have expected having a number > 0 would have prevented me from putting on the clothing immediately anyway but that doesn't seem to be happening.  

However I do remember in previous games, with the previous version, the timer for post rape dressing was definitely working.

Yeah.

I've noticed recently the post rape and redress timeouts aren't working.

That shouldn't be very difficult to fix but lately there's always been more significant issues that I need to look into.

 

I've also noticed that my mod reports the player as naked sometimes when she is not.  This is also on my list of things to look into but it might be a little more difficult to figure out.

 

These are both on the list of things to do but I don't really have an ETA for them.

 

Happy gaming,

legume.

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What does the "greeting dialogue" actually do?  I've had this installed for many hours, and have never noticed a change after picking a greeting (using manual greeting dialogues).  The description is pretty coy about this feature.

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What does the "greeting dialogue" actually do?  I've had this installed for many hours, and have never noticed a change after picking a greeting (using manual greeting dialogues).  The description is pretty coy about this feature.

The greeting feature itself doesn't do a whole lot that you really notice.

It is meant as a "tool" for modders to use when developing dialogues.

I expect only the DFW Support mod uses this tool currently.

What you will notice is that any dialogues developed using this will not be available with any NPC until the player has gone through the dialogue with that NPC.

 

Reasons and technical details for why it is needed:

 

 

For any dialogue, the Skyrim dialogue system checks certain conditions before the the dialogue becomes available to the player.

Some examples of these conditions are "How close is the NPC to the player?"  "Is the NPC a bandit?"  "A necromancer?" etc.

While these conditions are extensive the base came does not including things like, "Is the player gagged?"  "Or wearing a collar?"  "How aroused is the NPC?"

 

The Devious Framework mod make a number conditions available to any dialogue that mod developers want to develop (all of the conditions available can be seen in the Devious Framework => Status MCM page under "Show Last Dialogue Target").

This information could be "attached to" (or associated with) each NPC individually; however, that would involve adding a script to each NPC the player comes in contact with, increasing the number of scripts in the game which is not good for keeping the game running smoothly.

 

Instead this information is made available using a set of variables in Devious Framework quest main script.  These variables can only keep track of one NPC at a time.

Any time the player is speaking with an NPC these variables in the quest script need to be updated to reflect the NPC the player is speaking with.  This can only be done by running the part of the scrip that updates the variables.

In order to run this part of the script it must be tied to an in-game event when the player starts speaking with the NPC.

 

The only way I know how to do this is using the dialogue system.

When the player starts speaking with the NPC this "Greeting Dialogue" feature is triggered.

This in turn runs the Devious Framework main quest script.

This updates the variables to reflect the NPC the player is speaking with.

Dialogues that rely on these variables will only be available after this has occurred.

 

 

 

A number of dialogues during the leash game rely on the information from tool.  This includes dialogues with the slaver as well as those with the guards and other bystanders.  Some dialogues while the player is locked in furniture rely on this as well.

 

An example of this is asking a guard to help free you from the leash game.  The dialogue system needs to know the guard's "willingness to help" value... which is calculated based on his anger, dominance, and kindness values when this script is called.

The dialogue system will not present this dialogue option to the user until the "Greeting Dialogue" has occurred.

If you have a good idea when these dialogues occur, one option is to set it to manual and only select the Hello dialogue when you need to access a dialogue that relies on this tool.

 

I expect this description is a little overly long but I hope it clarifies a rather complicated feature.

 

Happy gaming,

legume.

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What does the "greeting dialogue" actually do?  I've had this installed for many hours, and have never noticed a change after picking a greeting (using manual greeting dialogues).  The description is pretty coy about this feature.

The greeting feature itself doesn't do a whole lot that you really notice.

It is meant as a "tool" for modders to use when developing dialogues.

I expect only the DFW Support mod uses this tool currently.

[...]

 

 

Ah!  That's an excellent explanation, thanks, and it makes perfect sense.

 

Thanks for this, and for the mod to bring a bit more order to the devious chaos.

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Just a heads up, but I run DFW with Captured Dreams and DFW has bystanders lock Ravyn into any bondage furniture that CD might be using, such as during the Thalmor Embassy quest. Which means that Ravyn doesn't get unlocked to go on to the next step in quest. Not an issue since I just disable DFW & Support via MCM before pursuing any CD quests and re-enable afterwards.

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I ran into a very small issue but I noticed when I would start alternate start depending on the location you choose to start in it usually gives you clothing to wear depending on what you choose, camping in the woods yields you wearing bandit cloths and vampire in a secluded lair yields you to wearing vampire cloths etc etc. But I noticed I would be naked everytime I would always have to manually equip it unchecking all the blocking options fixed this from happening. Not sure why it would.

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hi there,brilliant mod, i have just a question,i am using it with mild mod economy,can u help figure out how to exclude milk machine from framework,i wish not having lock on it ^^

Hi and thanks.

There is currently no mechanism to exclude Milking Machines from the auto-locking feature :(.  The only option is to disable this feature before using a milking machine.

I do realize something of this nature is needed (and will likely be needed for more than just Milking Machines) but I don't expect it to be something I will get to soon.

 

Sorry I can't offer a better solution,

legume.

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How exactly do you get captured in this mod? I have talked to dozens of slavers all over skyrim (from the Slave Girls mod of course) and none of them ever capture me, nor do they seem to have any dialogue option that's related to this mod. 

You have installed the "DFW Support" mod in addition to the Devious Framework mod, I presume.

Verify that you can start the leash game via option in the "DFW Support" => "Leash Game" MCM menu.

Verify that the settings on that page are sufficiently high (set them to 20-100% for testing purposes).

Verify the nearby actors are actually slavers.  There are tools on the "Devious Framework" => "Status" MCM menu that can help with that.  I believe it is "Show Nearby".

If the leash game style is configured as protected ("DFW Support" => "Leash Game" MCM menu) make sure the slaver is behind you.

 

If none of these solve the problem I might be able to look into it more with a Papyrus log or quest variables.

 

Hope this helps,

legume.

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How exactly do you get captured in this mod? I have talked to dozens of slavers all over skyrim (from the Slave Girls mod of course) and none of them ever capture me, nor do they seem to have any dialogue option that's related to this mod. 

You have installed the "DFW Support" mod in addition to the Devious Framework mod, I presume.

Verify that you can start the leash game via option in the "DFW Support" => "Leash Game" MCM menu.

Verify that the settings on that page are sufficiently high (set them to 20-100% for testing purposes).

Verify the nearby actors are actually slavers.  There are tools on the "Devious Framework" => "Status" MCM menu that can help with that.  I believe it is "Show Nearby".

If the leash game style is configured as protected ("DFW Support" => "Leash Game" MCM menu) make sure the slaver is behind you.

 

If none of these solve the problem I might be able to look into it more with a Papyrus log or quest variables.

 

Hope this helps,

legume.

 

 

I do have DFW Support installed, but I'm afraid I can't find any option in the MCM menu that actually starts the leash game or increases my chances of starting it. I have found plenty of options that allow me to configure it like: Leash style, Leash length, Leash visible etc. But nothing that actually helps me start it. (see image below)

 

I tried increasing the vulnerability at night to 100%, then approaching slavers at night, didn't work. Tried playing around with the configuration settings a bit and trying every dialogue options with the slavers, didn't work either. I have a feeling I'm missing something that's right in front of me, but for the life of me I can't find it. I tried everything I could with the MCM menu. 

 

I did check in the status menu to make sure the nearby slavers are indeed slavers, so at least that checks out. 

post-15673-0-59387900-1491747328_thumb.jpg

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your picture shows the DFW MCM

 

DFWS has his own MCM menu,

there you find ways to configure the Leash game and Furniture interaction

 

so if you installed DFW and DFWS you should have 2 MCM menus

 

I see.. I didn't realize there were two. I thought that the MCM menu that I used WAS the DFW Support menu. 

I don't see a DFW support menu in my list of MCM menu's on my current character, but it does show up when I make a new character. Guess I'll have to make a new character for this mod then, let's hope I can get it to work this time :) 

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You have installed the "DFW Support" mod in addition to the Devious Framework mod, I presume.

Verify that you can start the leash game via option in the "DFW Support" => "Leash Game" MCM menu.

Verify that the settings on that page are sufficiently high (set them to 20-100% for testing purposes).

Verify the nearby actors are actually slavers.  There are tools on the "Devious Framework" => "Status" MCM menu that can help with that.  I believe it is "Show Nearby".

If the leash game style is configured as protected ("DFW Support" => "Leash Game" MCM menu) make sure the slaver is behind you.

 

If none of these solve the problem I might be able to look into it more with a Papyrus log or quest variables.

...I can't find any option in the MCM menu that actually starts the leash game or increases my chances of starting it.

Do you have a "DFW Support" MCM menu?  If not this would explain the problem.

Which version of the Devious Framework and DFW Support mods do you have installed?

Can you confirm that DFW Support is in your load order and being loaded by the game?

Open the console using the backtick key (` beside the 1) and try Help _dfwsDfwSupport.  If this shows you the DFW Support mod quest the mod should be loaded in your game properly.

If not the mod is somehow not getting loaded.  I don't know what would cause this, although there is a 255 limit on the number of plugin files the game can load.

 

Either way, if "DFW Support" is not showing up in your MCM menu, this is not something I know how to fix.  Perhaps something in the Papyrus log or quest variables will give me a clue.  Perhaps trying on a new game will shed some light.  Or installing on a different game.  Or uninstalling the mod, saving the game, and then installing the mod again.

 

I assume you did not use the "Shutdown Mod" MCM debug option, but that could explain some things.  It is not meant to be used except before uninstalling the mod and I don't know what effect it would have on a running game.

 

Hope this helps,

legume.

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You have installed the "DFW Support" mod in addition to the Devious Framework mod, I presume.

Verify that you can start the leash game via option in the "DFW Support" => "Leash Game" MCM menu.

Verify that the settings on that page are sufficiently high (set them to 20-100% for testing purposes).

Verify the nearby actors are actually slavers.  There are tools on the "Devious Framework" => "Status" MCM menu that can help with that.  I believe it is "Show Nearby".

If the leash game style is configured as protected ("DFW Support" => "Leash Game" MCM menu) make sure the slaver is behind you.

 

If none of these solve the problem I might be able to look into it more with a Papyrus log or quest variables.

...I can't find any option in the MCM menu that actually starts the leash game or increases my chances of starting it.

Do you have a "DFW Support" MCM menu?  If not this would explain the problem.

Which version of the Devious Framework and DFW Support mods do you have installed?

Can you confirm that DFW Support is in your load order and being loaded by the game?

Open the console using the backtick key (` beside the 1) and try Help _dfwsDfwSupport.  If this shows you the DFW Support mod quest the mod should be loaded in your game properly.

If not the mod is somehow not getting loaded.  I don't know what would cause this, although there is a 255 limit on the number of plugin files the game can load.

 

Either way, if "DFW Support" is not showing up in your MCM menu, this is not something I know how to fix.  Perhaps something in the Papyrus log or quest variables will give me a clue.  Perhaps trying on a new game will shed some light.  Or installing on a different game.  Or uninstalling the mod, saving the game, and then installing the mod again.

 

I assume you did not use the "Shutdown Mod" MCM debug option, but that could explain some things.  It is not meant to be used except before uninstalling the mod and I don't know what effect it would have on a running game.

 

Hope this helps,

legume.

 

 

Turns out the DFW Support menu didn't show up and I assumed that the other MCM menu was the DFW support menu. 

I fixed it by starting a new character though. ;) 

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Turns out the DFW Support menu didn't show up and I assumed that the other MCM menu was the DFW support menu. 

I fixed it by starting a new character though. ;)

Well, I'm glad it's working for you :).

But it is a little troubling that the MCM menu didn't show up :(.

This is supposed to be installable on existing games.

 

You aren't running version 2.05 of the mod, are you?  I had a lot of trouble with this in version 2.05 but It was supposed to be fixed in 2.06.

 

I might be able to help more if you have a Papyrus log when loading a game that was saved before the mod was installed.

It's up to you whether you want to get this to me or not though.  If you're happy with a new game I can look into it another time.

 

Happy gaming,

legume.

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this mod is not working for me, it caused a save bloat (unloadable save, CTD when trying to load the game with this mod installed within)

this is my load order:

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp
ApachiiHair.esm
ApachiiHairFemales.esm
ApachiiHairMales.esm
SexLab.esm
Devious Devices - Assets.esm
SexLabAroused.esm
ZaZAnimationPack.esm
MiasLair.esp
Devious Devices - Integration.esm
daymoyl.esm
Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
EFFCore.esm
hdtHighHeel.esm
PSQ PlayerSuccubusQuest.esm
RaceCompatibility.esm
DeviousFramework.esm
HighResTexturePack01.esp
HighResTexturePack02.esp
HighResTexturePack03.esp
Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp
Cutting Room Floor.esp
UIExtensions.esp
AddItemMenu2.esp
Verdant - A Skyrim Grass Plugin.esp
Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp
RealisticWaterTwo.esp
SexLab_Solutions.esp
SkyrimCoinReplacerRedux.esp
xazPrisonOverhaul.esp
xazPrisonOverhaul - Patch.esp
BanneredMareExtension.esp
Thunderchild - Epic Shout Package.esp
MoonAndStar_MAS.esp
AuroraVillage.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp
RemoveEssentialPatch.esp
Run For Your Lives.esp
RiversideLodge.esp
BecomeKingofSkyrim.esp
METraining & Auctions.esp
sanguinesDebauchery.esp
buildablehouse.esp
Weapons & Armor_TrueWeaponsLvlLists.esp
Immersive Weapons.esp
SimpleSlavery.esp
SexLab Theft and Seduction.esp
Colorful_Magic.esp
PathOfSorcery.esp
Phenderix Magic Evolved.esp
Thornrock.esp
Teleport.esp
MoonAndStar_AuroraPatch.esp
SexLab-AmorousAdventures.esp
CaranthirTowerReborn.esp
Club Riften.esp
ScopedBows.esp
EeveeFox.esp
ResurrectDragon.esp
Phenderix Tool - Teleports.esp
RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp
SexLab_Dialogues.esp
ssapbwk.esp
RND_HearthFires-Patch.esp
blood magic.esp
daymoyl_DawnguardAddon.esp
Sneak Tools.esp
Faction Crossbows.esp
Plasma Blades.esp
Teleport-DG Plugin.esp
Mysticism.esp
Portals of Skyrim.esp
Gifts Of The Outsider.esp
Magic of the Magna-Ge.esp
Maria.esp
skoomadealer.esp
Spellsword.esp
SexLab Eager NPCs.esp
Aethernautics.esp
Animated Dragon Wings.esp
JoOJediRobeV2.esp
Phenderix's Magic Transcended.esp
Mass effect Biotic spells.esp
vMYC_MeetYourCharacters.esp
Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp
Apocalypse - More Apocalypse.esp
ArrowRecoverySystemOverhaul.esp
TERA Weapons.esp
Atom Bomb.esp
Auto Unequip Ammo.esp
BarenziahQuestMarkers.esp
Bijin NPCs.esp
Bijin Warmaidens.esp
Bijin Wives.esp
Sneak Tools Vanilla Hoods.esp
SkyUI.esp
BlitzConsoleCommandsMCM.esp
Brawl Bugs CE.esp
Broken Angel Armor.esp
CCF_RND_Patch.esp
Chesko_WearableLantern.esp
DarkNemesis.esp
DBZBattleGloves.esp
DBZKaioken.esp
DbzKiBlast.esp
DBZKiBlastAuto.esp
DBZMagc.esp
DBZmultidestructodisc.esp
dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp
DD - Interactions.esp
dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp
dD-Dragonborn-Dawnguard-EBT Patch.esp
DD_GW_Mark2.esp
DeadlyMutilation.esp
Devious Deviants.esp
Devious Devices - Equip.esp
More Draconic Dragon Aspect - Powered Edition.esp
More Draconic Dragon Aspect - Wings and Tail.esp
DragonAspectToggle_DAT.esp
DragonCarvedArmorSet.esp
Dr_Bandolier.esp
DSerArcheryGameplayOverhaul.esp
EFFDialogue.esp
ElementalArrows.esp
Elisif Makeover.esp
EternalShineArmorAndWeapons.esp
FestusKrexSpell.esp
FISS.esp
FNIS.esp
Jormundandr Dragon.esp
FNISspells.esp
FNIS_PCEA2.esp
ForgottenMagic_Redone.esp
Grimy Utilities Interface.esp
HeartBreaker.esp
Immersive Speechcraft.esp
Invisibility Eyes Fix.esp
JaxonzUtilities.esp
Kamehameha.esp
KS Hairdo's.esp
KS Hairdos - HDT.esp
LostGrimoire.esp
Magicka Sabers.esp
Merta Assassin Armor.esp
Merta Assassin Tattoos.esp
Merta Black Rose Armor.esp
P1FlyingRing.esp
More Draconic Dragon Aspect - Flying Mod Addon.esp
N7 Assassin's Creed Armor.esp
normandy.esp
ValkyrieSwordShield.esp
Nightingale Prime remaster.esp
Phenderix Energy Consumption.esp
Phenderix Tool - Spell Edit.esp
Phenderix Tool - Weapon Edit.esp
PoS More Apocalypse Patch.esp
PoS Apocalypse Patch.esp
PuppetMaster.esp
RaceMenu.esp
RaceMenuMimic.esp
RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
RaceMenuOverlays.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
Real Flying.esp
RealisticNeedsandDiseasesCheckNeedsPL.esp
RND_Dawnguard-Patch.esp
RND_Dragonborn-Patch.esp
Saiyanrace.esp
sanctuarycleanup.esp
ScarletDawnArmor.esp
ScopedBows_ArrowTweaks.esp
ScopedBows_EagleEyeTweak.esp
Scouter.esp
SenzuBeandbz.esp
Serana.esp
SexLab Brawling Rape.esp
SexLab Submit.esp
SexLab TDF Aggressive Prostitution.esp
SexLabDefeat.esp
SexLabTools.esp
Sexual Vampire Feed.esp
ShadowSpellPackage.esp
ShadowSpellPackage_DragonbornStaffCrafting.esp
ShadowSpellPackage_PathOfSorceryPatch.esp
SimplyKnock.esp
SkyTweak.esp
SL Deadly Drain.esp
SLALAnimObj.esp
SLAnimLoader.esp
SmartCast_1_0.esp
Smithing Perks Overhaul_Remade.esp
Sotteta Necromancer Outfit.esp
SpellChargingFramework.esp
SpellComboV2.esp
SpellswordDawnguardDragonborn.esp
TradeBarter.esp
StripNPCs.esp
TaliArmor.esp
Teleport-DB Plugin.esp
TERAArmors_CBBE.esp
The Eyes Of Beauty - Elves Edition.esp
TheEyesOfBeauty.esp
TomahawkACIIIWepMod.esp
UniversalArmor.esp
Valerica.esp
VioLens.esp
Watercolor_for_ENB_RWT_RND.esp
wizDynamicThings.esp
YourMarketStall.esp
TexturesPack_PL.esp
ImmerSlave-DeviceCut.esp
Sneak Tools Vanilla Masks.esp
SuccubusRaceLite.esp
RaceCompatibilityUSKPOverride.esp
BecomeAVampire.esp
TrissArmorRetextured.esp
XPMSE.esp - DISABLED
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
Alternate Start -- New Beginnings.esp
Alternate Start - Live A Deviant Life.esp
ImmerSlave.esp

PLS help, this is my first installation of this mod, i wasn't using this before, idk why it crashes help xD

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