XP32 Maximum Skeleton (Special) Extended - XPMS(S)E

[Groovtama]

 

Because it is:

Not necessary and counterproductive. I explain it with a pendulum, you wanna have a pendulum that swings by the force you apply to it. But with BBP enabled, it is more like you grab the pendulum with your hand and move it where you want it. That means most of the time just the BBP animation plays and the HDT effect will be nullified and will look odd.

I'm interested in this too. So its my understanding, based on this, that it is not inherently 'incompatible' per se, it just produces an undesired effect when used in conjunction with HDT(which honestly, HDT users should have known ahead of time). At that point why not just opt for users not to use BBP enabled animations, or strip the BBP rigging out of the animations rather than using this 'kludge' that is outright removing the functionality.

 

Additionally, you're changing the bone order inside the rig files by doing this, which is going to break any animations out there based around different versions of the hkx. Your BBP rig's order matches up neatly vs the legacy XPMS 1.93, however the bones you have positioned afterwards('npc item' and 'wing') wind up getting their index changed as a result of the removal of the BBP bones in the default rig you supply.

 

Animations in havok(well, skyrim's implementation at least) have bones referenced by index rather than a key>value system like the older kf files in previous games used. This means if you start messing with the bone order in your rig, you start breaking animations. As it stands, no one can reliably animate for the [albeit limited number of] extra animation bones you have included in your rig, as the difference in bone order between the bbp and non bbp skeletons throws a wrench into everything.

 

What is the rationale behind this, if you don't mind me asking?

 

 

The order is still the same, some bones are just left out. {1,2,3,4,5,6} has all the in the same order as {1,2,3,5,6}, (older XPMSE had a different global order, that is fixed now).

 

Why XPMS 1.93a created animations don't work have another reasion, XPMS has bones moved to position by default where they not should be, XPMS 1.93 made animations don't work with XPMS 1.93 itself because the bones are relocated by the hkx included in XPMS 1.93a to positions near to XPMSE2 ones, they would not work with Cherry's dragonfly's or my rig.

 

Most bones after TBBP are not used, the ones used are the VL ones and they still work, when you replace a XPMSE rig\skeleton on the vampire lord and add the wings to it (you would have to do more edit that you not crash but just the basic idea). So most likely there is more to that than just the global order what most people mean, because global order and indices of VL wings are totally different in VL rig as in human rig, most likely the internal order is meant, which can make the parent tree be totally different, which affects many other things. The only problem I had were where I changed the internal order, by indructing new bones between instead of the end, {1,2,3,7,5,6}, which generates a total different parent tree graph.

 

I have other theories with references instead of indices what people mess up but that makes everything far more complicated and adds more stuff which is confusing for people.

 

There are other problems like HDT shapes are getting stucked in unfunctioning ways, which causes the problem with HDT freaking out etc.

 

If you wanna redo thousands animations with bbp removed, be my guest to run around and ask for permission to edit and provide them, I will gladly watch.

[en_hawk]

The order is still the same, some bones are just left out. {1,2,3,4,5,6} has all the in the same order as {1,2,3,5,6}, (older XPMSE had a different global order, that is fixed now).

 

Why XPMS 1.93a created animations don't work have another reasion, XPMS has bones moved to position by default where they not should be, XPMS 1.93 made animations don't work with XPMS 1.93 itself because the bones are relocated by the hkx included in XPMS 1.93a to positions near to XPMSE2 ones, they would not work with Cherry's dragonfly's or my rig.

 

Most bones after TBBP are not used, the ones used are the VL ones and they still work, when you replace a XPMSE rig\skeleton on the vampire lord and add the wings to it (you would have to do more edit that you not crash but just the basic idea). So most likely there is more to that than just the global order what most people mean, because global order and indices of VL wings are totally different in VL rig as in human rig, most likely the internal order is meant, which can make the parent tree be totally different, which affects many other things. The only problem I had were where I changed the internal order, by indructing new bones between instead of the end, {1,2,3,7,5,6}, which generates a total different parent tree graph.

I think you're missing the point; I wasn't talking about the VL form specifically(or, at all, really), I was talking about any of the bones beyond the end of the default ones(the camera control node). If the VL uses its own rig, then any issues involving it are entirely unrelated, as it has its own separate rig. Bone position and potential errors within XPMS 1.93 also have nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.

 

If authors want to reliably animate for any of these extra bones(or any extra bones in general, on any skeleton), they're going to need a fixed and reliable node order to do so. You've already chopped out 90% of the extra animation bones from the legacy XPMS; by providing a non-fixed order for the remaining few, they might as well be unusable for user created animations. There's still the left and right 'item' bones, which I'm sure could be used for something by a creative author(though I don't seem to see copies of them in the nif skeleton). Then again, they may be copied from some other vanilla rig, in which case it would be helpful to know where they came from...

 

Point being, animation bones(as a concept) are not useless, but providing them in a non-static order depending on which rig file you choose renders them so.

 

I have other theories with references instead of indices what people mess up but that makes everything far more complicated and adds more stuff which is confusing for people.

I'm not sure I fully understand you here. If you have a theory on mapping compiled hkx animation files to bone names as opposed to indexes, I'd love to hear it.

 

There are other problems like HDT shapes are getting stucked in unfunctioning ways, which causes the problem with HDT freaking out etc.

 

If you wanna redo thousands animations with bbp removed, be my guest to run around and ask for permission to edit and provide them, I will gladly watch.

You know, it only takes a copy of hkxcmd and less than 10 seconds of effort to scrape the bbp(or any other custom bones) rigging out a compiled hkx animation, it even does batch processing.

[eslehto]

Hi, I glad you are good mod for skeleton for XP32 Skeleton.

 

I download this zip the other day not realizing I need NMM to install it. 

Since I can't access the Nexus (don't ask pls)

 

I have HDT_PE and extended skeleton in zip.

 

So my question is; Does this work for non-nexus people?

 

[fizzybutt]

Hi, I glad you are good mod for skeleton for XP32 Skeleton.

 

I download this zip the other day not realizing I need NMM to install it. 

Since I can't access the Nexus (don't ask pls)

 

I have HDT_PE and extended skeleton in zip.

 

So my question is; Does this work for non-nexus people?

 

Use mod organizer.  It actually keeps your skyrim folder clean, unlike NMM. Little bit of a learning curve but watch the tutorials and you'll be good to go.

[eslehto]

@fizzybutt

Yes I understand,

 

MO is great organizer, I have some problem with it.

 

Since I can't use the Nexus, Here my problems;

 

No NMM

MO interferes with Steam Workshop

FNIS is over 2 mb

CBBE Bodyslide 2.0 is only found adult-only on Nexus.

 

My question is it possible for me to use this skeleton or HDT_PE for Skyrim.

 

[RavinBeast]

@fizzybutt

Yes I understand,

 

MO is great organizer, I have some problem with it.

 

Since I can't use the Nexus, Here my problems;

 

No NMM

MO interferes with Steam Workshop

FNIS is over 2 mb

CBBE Bodyslide 2.0 is only found adult-only on Nexus.

 

My question is it possible for me to use this skeleton or HDT_PE for Skyrim.

 

MO Does Not Interfere With Steam Workshop, If You're Having Trouble Using Mod Organizer I Would Urge You To Investigate The Rest Of Gophers MO Tutorials

 

Sorry I Can't Help With The Other Issues You're Running Into

[charlievoviii]

I use NMM and Mod Organizer.  Mod organizer does have problem installing some mods correctly.  If you the type that like to try new mods constantly, MO is perfect.  

[eslehto]

My question is how to I use this file, The one the OP is talking about without accessing the Nexus Site?

Since I can download anything less 2 mb (since as Ragdolls) I have no problem.

 

The problem is requirement such as Fore's Animations Idles for Skyrim is 2.7mb

and RaceMenu 3.0 is 30k

The second thing is CBBE bodyslide 2.0 is needed to make CBBE is only located in adult section, which mean I can't access the files.

 

Does MO open FOMOD for skeleton? or do I need NMM to open it.

 

Steam Workshop is where I got most of Mods from, Mod Organizer would require to unsubscribe to most of mods downloaded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Groovtama]

 

The order is still the same, some bones are just left out. {1,2,3,4,5,6} has all the in the same order as {1,2,3,5,6}, (older XPMSE had a different global order, that is fixed now).

 

Why XPMS 1.93a created animations don't work have another reasion, XPMS has bones moved to position by default where they not should be, XPMS 1.93 made animations don't work with XPMS 1.93 itself because the bones are relocated by the hkx included in XPMS 1.93a to positions near to XPMSE2 ones, they would not work with Cherry's dragonfly's or my rig.

 

Most bones after TBBP are not used, the ones used are the VL ones and they still work, when you replace a XPMSE rig\skeleton on the vampire lord and add the wings to it (you would have to do more edit that you not crash but just the basic idea). So most likely there is more to that than just the global order what most people mean, because global order and indices of VL wings are totally different in VL rig as in human rig, most likely the internal order is meant, which can make the parent tree be totally different, which affects many other things. The only problem I had were where I changed the internal order, by indructing new bones between instead of the end, {1,2,3,7,5,6}, which generates a total different parent tree graph.

I think you're missing the point; I wasn't talking about the VL form specifically(or, at all, really), I was talking about any of the bones beyond the end of the default ones(the camera control node). If the VL uses its own rig, then any issues involving it are entirely unrelated, as it has its own separate rig. Bone position and potential errors within XPMS 1.93 also have nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.

 

If authors want to reliably animate for any of these extra bones(or any extra bones in general, on any skeleton), they're going to need a fixed and reliable node order to do so. You've already chopped out 90% of the extra animation bones from the legacy XPMS; by providing a non-fixed order for the remaining few, they might as well be unusable for user created animations. There's still the left and right 'item' bones, which I'm sure could be used for something by a creative author(though I don't seem to see copies of them in the nif skeleton). Then again, they may be copied from some other vanilla rig, in which case it would be helpful to know where they came from...

 

Point being, animation bones(as a concept) are not useless, but providing them in a non-static order depending on which rig file you choose renders them so.

 

I have other theories with references instead of indices what people mess up but that makes everything far more complicated and adds more stuff which is confusing for people.

I'm not sure I fully understand you here. If you have a theory on mapping compiled hkx animation files to bone names as opposed to indexes, I'd love to hear it.

 

There are other problems like HDT shapes are getting stucked in unfunctioning ways, which causes the problem with HDT freaking out etc.

 

If you wanna redo thousands animations with bbp removed, be my guest to run around and ask for permission to edit and provide them, I will gladly watch.

You know, it only takes a copy of hkxcmd and less than 10 seconds of effort to scrape the bbp(or any other custom bones) rigging out a compiled hkx animation, it even does batch processing.

 

I say it for the last time the order is the same! Only thing that is removed are unused bones, that are in any animation file telling the game to do nothing! you have a 3 times bigger animation file that tells the game to do nothing. And when you come with animators needing a constant rig, they had 2 fucking years to use any of these bones and seriously nobody used them.

 

With HDT, cloaks, hairs, pussy etc. moved completely to physics why keep them in the animation rig, so that unused bones not move? The bones were non-sense and I have thrown them out, the order of the rest of the bones is still the same, meaning the sub parent graph is still the same. And I tried to explain with the VL wing bones in the skeleton rig, They are in all 3 rigs at different indices, what would after you mean a different order, but the wing animation work on all 3.

 

And that is where the reference theory comes in:

Animation has a reference to animation data for a node name and the skeleton rig map has the reference to a bone for a node name, the game combines them that is all. Nothing more. The skeleton order in that txt files is just a filter what bones should be written to the animation file. (I ignore that you could mess up the aniamtion file with floats, if you do that you fucked up in another way)

 

There are only two people who ever were talking about animation problems with animations and bone order, and if my problems were caused with bone order is also something I'm not 100% sure of, and from my knowledge there is another more explainable reason for the problems the two people had, that has nothing to do with bone order, but with defaults. Because default data in animation and rig must be identical to be really perfect. If you have custom scales\positions\rotations in the skeleton you make the animation with, and you export it with the filter, the defaults are the scales\positions\rotations in the skeleton in the animation and the game trys to match scales\positions\rotations defaults from the rig which is common, to the animation file and that messes up position of a node in 3-dimensional space, which deforms meshes skinned to the bone horrible.

You rescale\repostion\rerotate in the animation file with other defaults is really really bad.

 

Other thing why I don't believe in bone order is if they would match about indices, I could fix missnamed nodes in some monster skeletons, but I can't and why is simple if I rename the missnamed bone name in the skeleton and in the rig map of the monster, that bone is dead, with the bone order theory it would work, but it doesn't, so it can't be indices that are matched.

 

And:

Some people don't allowing modifing and reuploading their animations, and if you have the time you clean up thousands of animations do it.

[Mookeylama]

i've been using the old 1.93 legacy because i always loved those long legs. does this latest XPSE allow for making legs longer?

 

and if i recall, changing some leg proportions, like width, would cause legs and feet to sink into the ground. is this fixed in this latest? thanks

[Groovtama]

i've been using the old 1.93 legacy because i always loved those long legs. does this latest XPSE allow for making legs longer?

 

and if i recall, changing some leg proportions, like width, would cause legs and feet to sink into the ground. is this fixed in this latest? thanks

You can make the legs actual longer, with this also the 1st person gets higher. The feet in the ground problem doesn't exists with my sliders.

[fizzybutt]

i've been using the old 1.93 legacy because i always loved those long legs. does this latest XPSE allow for making legs longer?

 

and if i recall, changing some leg proportions, like width, would cause legs and feet to sink into the ground. is this fixed in this latest? thanks

 

It works in conjunction with racemenu 3.0 now, Yeah there's some awesome sliders to make longer legs and it has a proportion slider to adjust leg/torso length. There's even sliders for hands/palms and individual fingers now. After installing, you need to make sure you've got racemenu.esp, racemenuplugin.esp and racemenupluginxpmse.esp all running to get the full benefit of the sliders. (Also, if you're running pose mods, there's sliders in the racemenu tabs for that too!   ) 

[zelayasrevenge301]

 

I tried to upgrade my skeleton from version 2.14 to 2.41 and for whatever reason all the extra racemenu sliders included in the XPMSE Plugin were gone. Any possible causes?

You use a custom race with a seperate skeleton and didn't update the skeleton of the custom race?

You have overwirtten XPMSE with some other mods and now on update the mod still overwrites it?

You installed XPMSE with NMM, used the update function and it fucked up?

Basically saying your character is not using the skeleton, the racemenu plugin was made for.

If really all are missing update RaceMenu to 3.0 because 2.9 will not work.

 

I have also lost the weapon position sliders in RaceMenu.

 

Was trying do some work on a skeleton for another race and adding the weapon nodes and cannot get the options to show up in Racemenu.

See above.

And post the edited skeleton because if it doesn't work it wasn't made right.

 

I am using the custom Lunari Race, but as far as I'm aware it doesn't have its own skeleton and just uses what's in the load order.

 

XPMSE is not being overwritten by anything in my load order.

 

I am using MO and did not not use the update function.

 

I updated to Racemenu 3.0 before I updated to XPMSE 2.41

 

[Arhon]

 

 

I tried to upgrade my skeleton from version 2.14 to 2.41 and for whatever reason all the extra racemenu sliders included in the XPMSE Plugin were gone. Any possible causes?

You use a custom race with a seperate skeleton and didn't update the skeleton of the custom race?

You have overwirtten XPMSE with some other mods and now on update the mod still overwrites it?

You installed XPMSE with NMM, used the update function and it fucked up?

Basically saying your character is not using the skeleton, the racemenu plugin was made for.

If really all are missing update RaceMenu to 3.0 because 2.9 will not work.

 

I have also lost the weapon position sliders in RaceMenu.

 

Was trying do some work on a skeleton for another race and adding the weapon nodes and cannot get the options to show up in Racemenu.

See above.

And post the edited skeleton because if it doesn't work it wasn't made right.

 

I am using the custom Lunari Race, but as far as I'm aware it doesn't have its own skeleton and just uses what's in the load order.

 

XPMSE is not being overwritten by anything in my load order.

 

I am using MO and did not not use the update function.

 

I updated to Racemenu 3.0 before I updated to XPMSE 2.41

 

 

 

I use Lunari Race on one of my character's too but it works fine without any problems. Also if you are using MO XPMSE must always be at the end of the data files so that it overwrites all the skeletons

[SkyBarbie]

If I'm using CBBE TBBP what is the best XPMSE skeleton for me (2.41 or 1.93 updated)?

[Groovtama]

If I'm using CBBE TBBP what is the best XPMSE skeleton for me (2.41 or 1.93 updated)?

XPMSE2 when you use HDT PE.

XPMS when you only use TBBP animation for phyiscs.

 

When one mod says you need XPMSE2 then you need XPMSE2.

[Readraw]

Hi, I couldn't find a post about a problem that I encountered after a long abstinence of Skyrim. After I updated all my mods, I encountered this error:

"RaceMenu Error(s): Invalid RaceMenuBase script version detected (0) expected (6). Please update your base script. Error Codes (2)"

Do you know what causes this error and how to fix it or should I contact expired?

[Groovtama]

Hi, I couldn't find a post about a problem that I encountered after a long abstinence of Skyrim. After I updated all my mods, I encountered this error:

"RaceMenu Error(s): Invalid RaceMenuBase script version detected (0) expected (6). Please update your base script. Error Codes (2)"

Do you know what causes this error and how to fix it or should I contact expired?

Old racemenu scripts, uninstall racemenu properly check for and delete any leftover loose files and reinstall it.

 

What files belong to racemenu are on the racemenu page in the comments stickies.

[zelayasrevenge301]

 

 

 

I tried to upgrade my skeleton from version 2.14 to 2.41 and for whatever reason all the extra racemenu sliders included in the XPMSE Plugin were gone. Any possible causes?

You use a custom race with a seperate skeleton and didn't update the skeleton of the custom race?

You have overwirtten XPMSE with some other mods and now on update the mod still overwrites it?

You installed XPMSE with NMM, used the update function and it fucked up?

Basically saying your character is not using the skeleton, the racemenu plugin was made for.

If really all are missing update RaceMenu to 3.0 because 2.9 will not work.

 

I have also lost the weapon position sliders in RaceMenu.

 

Was trying do some work on a skeleton for another race and adding the weapon nodes and cannot get the options to show up in Racemenu.

See above.

And post the edited skeleton because if it doesn't work it wasn't made right.

 

I am using the custom Lunari Race, but as far as I'm aware it doesn't have its own skeleton and just uses what's in the load order.

 

XPMSE is not being overwritten by anything in my load order.

 

I am using MO and did not not use the update function.

 

I updated to Racemenu 3.0 before I updated to XPMSE 2.41

 

 

 

I use Lunari Race on one of my character's too but it works fine without any problems. Also if you are using MO XPMSE must always be at the end of the data files so that it overwrites all the skeletons

 

 

I am absolutely certain that nothing is overwriting the skeleton. For whatever reason RaceMenuPluginXPMSE.esp just doesn't seem to be doing it's job.

 

Is the problem that I need to wait for a certain period of time for it to become active?

[Groovtama]

Seriously either you don't use the skeleton that will result in some sliders missing for example a Weapon Category with only Scale sliders.

Or if you are missing everything, no category for weapons at all, your RaceMenu 3 is not installed correctly.

 

Don't tell me that everything is installed crrectly, because it is not, there are enough people for which have the esp, which is working.

[johann7124]

 

 

 

 

I tried to upgrade my skeleton from version 2.14 to 2.41 and for whatever reason all the extra racemenu sliders included in the XPMSE Plugin were gone. Any possible causes?

You use a custom race with a seperate skeleton and didn't update the skeleton of the custom race?

You have overwirtten XPMSE with some other mods and now on update the mod still overwrites it?

You installed XPMSE with NMM, used the update function and it fucked up?

Basically saying your character is not using the skeleton, the racemenu plugin was made for.

If really all are missing update RaceMenu to 3.0 because 2.9 will not work.

 

I have also lost the weapon position sliders in RaceMenu.

 

Was trying do some work on a skeleton for another race and adding the weapon nodes and cannot get the options to show up in Racemenu.

See above.

And post the edited skeleton because if it doesn't work it wasn't made right.

 

I am using the custom Lunari Race, but as far as I'm aware it doesn't have its own skeleton and just uses what's in the load order.

 

XPMSE is not being overwritten by anything in my load order.

 

I am using MO and did not not use the update function.

 

I updated to Racemenu 3.0 before I updated to XPMSE 2.41

 

 

 

I use Lunari Race on one of my character's too but it works fine without any problems. Also if you are using MO XPMSE must always be at the end of the data files so that it overwrites all the skeletons

 

 

I am absolutely certain that nothing is overwriting the skeleton. For whatever reason RaceMenuPluginXPMSE.esp just doesn't seem to be doing it's job.

 

Is the problem that I need to wait for a certain period of time for it to become active?

 

Uninstall the skeleton and then reinstall the skeleton. I will bet that the missing sliders will be there.

[lordhalmar]

I got the sword on back placement and daggers set up for both left and right on my character but is there any way to easily set up all the NPCs to follow these?  All NPCs have their weapons on their sides still and with the back draw animations in it looks really funny.

[A She-Wolf]

I got the sword on back placement and daggers set up for both left and right on my character but is there any way to easily set up all the NPCs to follow these?  All NPCs have their weapons on their sides still and with the back draw animations in it looks really funny.

 

Check out Dual Sheath Redux and Immersive Animations.

[Nepro]

My khajiit has issue with sticking out straight tail. Dunno how to fix it. Dunno what caused it. I wanted to start a new game. I removed couple mods, upgraded XPSE to the latest, updated couple other mods, ran LOOT, ran FNIS, rebuilt my dynamic patches.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

///

I installed back More Nasty Critters and re-ran FNIS and tail got realigned back where it should be.

 

Edited January 23, 2015 by Nepro

[Groovtama]

My khajiit has issue with sticking out straight tail. Dunno how to fix it. Dunno what caused it. I wanted to start a new game. I removed couple mods, upgraded XPSE to the latest, updated couple other mods, ran LOOT, ran FNIS, rebuilt my dynamic patches.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

///

I installed back More Nasty Critters and re-ran FNIS and tail got realigned back where it should be.

FNIS problem, XPMS doesn't touch Tail behaviour in any way.