rynak777

Hi, veteran to oblivion and LPK but noob to FONV and sexout here. I've red through the instructions in the first post, and the linked install guide, and am very hesistant to even attempt installing this, because this seems to be one giant errorprone mess, that is worse to get running (and keep running) than some of the worst LPK mods. So my question is: If i do not install any of this (SCR) at all, then what am i missing? What plugins or kinds of plugins will not work? EDIT: I'm of course not talking about the ESM itself - that's trivial. I'm talking about the mix-and-match puzzlegame, that are the requirements.

Pretty much almost everything is done by abusing spells - or more specifically powers - in oblivion. For example, to access the LAPF settings menu, cast the power "Sexual Exploits (Lovers Settings)". This abuse of spells in turn leads to hotkeys running out fast.... which is why you probably need a mod that adds additional hotkeys ("Improved Hotkeys" is a simple one... it just allows shift 1-9 and ctrl 1-9 in addition to 1-9 as hotkeys). Sometimes, mods already offer options during installation.... because of there being different ways to install it (i.e. different textures). There is an automatic and a manual way to do this: The automatic way is to get the mod in so called OMOD format.... omods are a format specific to the "oblivion mod manager", or "OBMM" for short. It probably works very similiar to what you're used to in Skyrim. The manual option is to carefully look through the readme file for instructions, and then do everything manually. Most lovers mods are installed manually, and do not come in OMOD format. Furthermore, the order in which one installs things is very important - as is the load order (mod managers will not sort the loadorder of lovers mods correctly).

Are there any changes to what is being saved? Last i checked, it was offender height offset and offender ver/horizontal (which one depends on anim) offset. Rotation offset and x/y/z offset of the pair is not saved?

FYI, it was not possible for me to do a non-destructive update from 1.5, to 1.5 patch2. I had to nuke all userdata of LAPF and (since all the lover plugins depend on it) all other lovers userdata. So, basically an LPK-free clean save. The problem was that some settings seemed to be stuck after upgrading. For example, the rape spell was stuck on being treated as hostile, regardless of what the settings displayed - even telling LAPF to reload from the ini file didn't fix it. Had to do a clean save with all lovers plugins disabled. Since this is fixed now (the hard way) on my side, this post is not a support request. Just saying that in my case, applying the hotfix required losing all LPK related userdata. Lovers-related LO: Yep - couldn't figure how to fix it nicely either - after hours of debugging went for the nuke option (disable all lovers plugins and do a clean save).

Setscale - the old as well as the various new "revised" versions, are all buggy in many different kinds of ways. I'd recommend not using it at all. If you're concerned about the conflicting sizes of races, then: 1. Learn simple basics about using TES construction set (basics as in: Knowing how to launch it, knowing how to select races from the menu, and then knowing how to press the keys "1"-"."-"0" on your keyboard. It would also be useful to know how to enter a filename in a save dialog) 2. Knowing how to use wryebash: Put your new plugin with the changed race scales right above the bashed patch - then merge it into the patch. Done! Equal race sizes without any buggy, ugly, slow or crashy scripting!

Not to discourage the few people who still bother to develop for this framework, but: *Searches download page* *Reads through first post on forum* -> Only version offered is 1.1.22. Well, to put it diplomatic: Thanks for at least informing about the problem. This way, newcomers can make the reasonable choice to refrain from giving the mod a try at this point in time, and wait for someday perhaps a working version being posted (in which case, they should DL and keep it safely away on their own HDD - you know, in case another bugged out version is released in the future, but no older versions are offered once AGAIN).

You do realize, that if you keep joking about this, he'll look into ways to make it work, right? Even though i currently don't have a use for this plugin, it's an instant download for me, because if i ever need to follow someone, this will do the trick. Oblivion needs more of such simple yet generic mods.

... Who came up with this design? So, tamago and hiyoko doesn't even manage all the relevant data of..... oh wait, i bet this is related to obvlion's modding infrastructure (and indirectly, serialisation -> savegames). Probably something like: If you add any feature/attribute/race/whatever to your hiyoko generator, then part of this will in savegames be stored under YOUR mod, instead of hiyoko ESM? If yes, how is OBSE savegame data handled? I mean, it's stored in a seperate file. Can a plugin explicitely request where it's data is stored in savegames.... like, the data of another mod? (let me guess, i just reinvented that childdatabase thing???)

killzone qoutes and responses (can't do this with proper format, because all forum softwares suck in 2014: Is this really ONLY for ***personal use***? Then yes, of course you could always just mess around with resource files and animation files. Why is this even neccessary? Answer: Too small "addressspace" of lover's animations. To avoid this, the address-space of animation numbers would have to be large enough, so that every single animation on the net can get its own UNIQUE number (which almost implies using at least 16bit... more probably 32bit.... addressspace). Of course, now that oblivion loversPK has almost reached the end of its shelf-life, and only a handful of dedicated people keep pushing it forwards, it kinda is a bit late to do this. The most the english LPK devs could do is, to transition to a 16bit address space, take all known animations, and then put them into giant animation package, with reassigned animation numbers.... but wait, we didn't account for licensing and permissions..... argh. Hmm, i drifted off quite a lot. Anyways, you can mess with files for personal use. But if you want to release your mod for others, then you pretty much are limited to ONLY using what the LAPF offers out of the box. Again, this is because the various other animation packs REPLACE animation-numbers of the LAPF! So, to you as a modder, if you want to use animations, then you either have to use LAPF ones, or recode specific animations to use numbers not yet assigned, AND then hardcode those numbers.... which of course means that ONLY you will use those special animations, since LAPF will not be able to understand their classification properly, thanks to the too small addressspace. Possible for LAPF devs to do? Yes, but again implies a larger addressspace, and thus complete redefinition of what certain number ranges (or rather - it's BITS) mean. This really is just the plain old encoding of attributes into the bits of a number. Yes, the oblivion scripting language might not natively have bitops, but hey, you can write functions to emulate those, right? Surely that's cheaper than iterating through a very large and bloated IF-ELSE block? ----------------------- P.S.: I hate it when forums (this isn't specific to just these boards - it's the same crap all around the goddamn web 2.0) forbid me from modifying the actual sourcecode of a post. UI gives me no way to split a quote into two? WELL, if i could edit the source, i could easily do that.... but with those fucking "rich editors" instead, i have to resort to manually quote stuff by hand and without specifying an author. Goddamn do i hate what the modern "web" has become - functionally inferior to goddamn 1995.

By my understanding, not using a bashed patch will *most of the time* (!!!) not increase CTDs. It's usually buggy mods and loadorder that causes CTDs. Most people seem to use wrye bash to merge mods, but as i understand it, merging really is NOT the main benefit which wrye bash provides. Outright merging simply reduces the plugin count, which is important IF one uses more than 200 mods.... otherwise, all it does is increase management headaches. Rather, the main benefit of wrye bash is that it can combine mods more finegrained, than oblivion's modding system allows. It's an improvement to the modding system itself. This can be best explained with an example: Say one plugin changes the health of bay horses. Another plugin changes the speed of bay horses. Naively one would assume, that this would cause no problems: Both plugins change different attributes right? Wrong! With oblivion's modding system, one redefines entire "things" - NOT "attributes of things". A plugin can only overwrite the entire definition of bay horses (so, ALL ATTRIBUTES). The granularity is that of things - not of attributes. So, what happens in the above example is: The first plugin is loaded, and overwrites ALL ATTRIBUTES of bay horses - but only the health value is different from vanilla. Then the second plugin is loaded, and again overwrites ALL ATTRIBUTES of bay horses (thus, overwriting the health value with the vanilla one again!), and sets a different speed value. You end up with bay horses having different speed, but vanilla health. This example might seem harmless..... but problems with this low granularity become more obvious, if you consider the infamous levelled lists. A bashed patch can however combine such "conflicting" changes with the granularity of ATTRIBUTES - instead of just THINGS. Wrye bash does this, by looking through all mods, collecting attribute changes... and then combining those changes in the so called bashed patch. Via the above example, one can also see why this usually won't prevent CTDs.... i.e. the bay horse health tweak simply being undone, will have gameplay consequences, but it wont make the game crash of course. So, most of the time, use of a bashed patch will avoid gameplay bugs. If you get CTDs, then chances are that your problem instead are buggy mods, incompatibilities or loadorder issues.

LO of what exactly? Just the ESMs or are changes to the ESPs also problematic? Asking because - if it's just the ESMs, then there is a much more simple solution..... which i already propose in that pinned thread in the tech section: Put tamago and hiyoko ESMs at the top, right after oblivion.esm. This way, LO never has to change (for the ESMs). However, if ESP LO changes were an issue, then this indeed is hard to fix without changing the design of those mods.

Sorry, i completely missed this one: When you use the number keys, to align animations, the changes are remembered in your savegame. So, when the same animation plays in the future, your changes automatically get applied (this is why you shouldn't use the number keys, to fix alignment on uneven ground). However, only the adjustments you made via keys 1-4 are saved. Changes like rotation aren't remembered (you will notice this for places like beds: if chars are the wrong away around in the bed, for a given animation, and you fix it via the number keys, then the next time the same animation plays in a bed, the chars are again the wrong way around). If you start a new game, or like to switch back and forth between savegames, then your adjustments are gone again, since they are stored in savegames. This is where loversbackup comes in: Lovers backup has a spell that lets you save all currently active adjustments to a file, or load adjustments from that file into your current game. This works across savegames. The "only keys 1-4" limitation still applies.

I know that chaos and confusion about all kinds of threads and versions quite well - it was even worse about a year ago >_> Back then, even LPK itself and creatures, was spread all over the place, when now instead it's two consolidated packages (plus wappy's patch for the overhaul). It also is one of the many reasons why i refuse to use MBP.... things are already enough of a mess, without a 1 freaking gigabyte large megapack of over a dozen races, replacers and what not.

Exactly. There's always one axis missing, and it's an annoying limitation. A while ago, i proposed that this be changed in LPK, but the answer basically was that LPK is a magick black box, originally programmed by some guys from japan, who now no longer maintain it. This is why so little about LPK itself (the core, not the many extensions) has changed since then. About sexual organs and so on - someone else will have to help with that - i'm using a different approach (fejeena's stuff) to get creatures to have dicks, and mixing this with your current setup will probably only cause more chaos.